Fluency in Latin/Greek- is it overkill?

[Guest yaphanet]

My son has begun two language programs designed to create fluency (not merely decoding/translating ability). The problem is - historically, the latin program requires minimum of 3hrs per day for 4 yrs, preferrably 4hrs per day for 3-4yrs. The Greek program requires 2hrs per day, though it is possible to do it in 1hr day.

 

Now, this would not be a problem if my child ONLY studied those 2 languages. BUT, he also does 1hr algebra 2, 1hr of history, 1hr of economics/political philosophy, and 1 hr writing/poetry. We would like to include Bible study - he is NOT familiar with the Bible - and considering replacing an hour of Latin with English/Latin Vulgate study as this is an option available in this program.

 

IS it overkill for a teen to do school from 7am-4pm 5 days a week? Plus at night before bed he reads freely for one hour. He has no outside activities. Three hours each week of the Latin is online with other students. weekends he spends mostly with friends. Is this schedule to much?

Edited June 14, 2012 by yaphanet
Not clear enough

[Julie in MN]

Yes :)

[G5052]

We do three languages (two modern), science experiments, and everything else and it takes about that long, but there are breaks, shorter days, days we go to the gym for an hour, piano, chores, etc. etc. Latin is no more than an hour a day. And we have martial arts in the evening.

 

I'd be concerned about the focus on a limited number of subjects.

[Guest yaphanet]

oh- i should have said, the latin includes science, geogrpahy, and history. bible optional. all the subjects include at least 1 hr a wk of fun videos about the subject. and yes, there are breaks.

[Twigs]

My son has begun two language programs designed to create fluency (not merely decoding/translating ability). The problem is - historically, the latin program requires minimum of 3hrs per day for 4 yrs, preferrably 4hrs per day for 3-4yrs. The Greek program requires 2hrs per day, though it is possible to do it in 1hr day. …

 

oh- i should have said, the latin includes science, geogrpahy, and history. bible optional. all the subjects include at least 1 hr a wk of fun videos about the subject. and yes, there are breaks.

 

:bigear: What program is this? I'm really curious!

IS it overkill for a teen to do school from 7am-4pm 5 days a week? Plus at night before bed he reads freely for one hour. He has no outside activities. Three hours each week of the Latin is online with other students. weekends he spends mostly with friends. Is this schedule to much?

 

"Fluency" is a word that is over-used and under-defined. What, exactly do you mean by this? Will he take AP Latin test after the 4th year? 3rd year? To my way of thinking, even a 5 on AP Latin doesn't mean fluent, not by a long shot. Most rigorous high school FL programs are one hour a day in class, and maybe a half hour or hour more of homework, so this doesn't sound like too atypical.

 

However, 7am to 4pm every weekday (with no additional "home"work?) seems roughly equivalent to a public HS schedule, perhaps a little less than a rigorous high school, so I wouldn't say that it is too much, at least not without knowing more.

 

Doing science in Latin just strikes me a gimmicky. For example, probably most biological terms post-date latin, so you just need to use neologisms to talk about them. And using classical texts for science is just wrong -- I mean, the Greeks thought that the stomach was the locus of cognition.

[nykatie]

I'd say it depends on him, but for my son that would be an oppressive schedule. I'd be thrilled that he had that deep an interest in classics, though!

[Gwen in VA]

How does your son feel about this?

Does he want to study Latin that intensively?

Does he want to do that much school? (Some kids do, but many don't....) What other activities does he have?

Do you know someone who has used this curriculum? I'd want to see lots of reviews before I started something that intensive.

Is the time estimate probably accurate? Or might it be hugely underestimating (which would be problematic) or might it be overestimating to look more rigorous?

 

Buy-in from your child is HUGE.

[Tress]

:bigear: What program is this? I'm really curious!

 

:bigear:

[Jonibee]

How does your son feel about this?

Does he want to study Latin that intensively?

Does he want to do that much school? (Some kids do, but many don't....)

Buy-in from your child is HUGE.

 

I second this! My 8th grader spent 2 hours a day with Latin and at least an hour a day with Japanese. He did not know until last year that this is his passion. He devoured it. On his line-up for 9th grade: Latin 2 and Japanese 2. And the Chinese I he wanted was full, so he has to put that off until 2nd semester . . . and in 10th grade, he wants to learn Thai. And Korean before he graduates. And how many languages do I think he can learn in high school? (his question)

 

He would love to do all of his studies in foreign languages. But I remind him that Math, History and Science are also non-negotiable . . . and the day is only so long. Life is more than study. But if a kid is passionate about language, that is no different than being passionate about music -- many kids spend 2-3 or 4 hours a day relatively every single day with their music and we don't bat an eye at that.

 

So the $10,000 question is: Is this what your son wants to do?

[Kareni]

 

He would love to do all of his studies in foreign languages. But I remind him that Math, History and Science are also non-negotiable . . . and the day is only so long.

 

 

If I'm remembering correctly Nan in Mass has (had?) her child doing one of his subjects (Geography? History?) in French. If your son is sufficiently fluent, perhaps he might do something similar.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Nan in Mass]

Nan in Mass here -

My son does history and geography in French. We have a friend who grew up in Ireland and he says all during his schooling, one did Irish and the class immediately following it, whatever class that happened to be, in Irish. The class varied from year to year and from child to child. (He happened to find it particularly difficult the year his math class was in Irish.) The reason we do history/geography in French is that Joan in Geneva said that schools where she live often do this in order to give their students more time in the foreign language, and she pointed out that the French national curriculum has a nice 4-year chronological history/geography program for the equivalent of US grades 6-9. It was a brilliant suggestion. It allowed my son not to lose his French during a period when he was not interested in studying it. He didn't learn much grammar during that time but he learned lots of vocabulary. If I had been fluent in French, we could have done more discussions in French and it would have been even more valuable. I'm not sure how all this would work in an Ancient language as opposed to a modern one, but other than that, it sounds rather like an immersion school? (At the moment, I am feeling particularly grateful to TWTM board because so many people here have helped me make this French dream actually work. My son is in Switzerland now, happily living with a WTM family and their friends, working on his French. The history/geography in French was very successful. Without it, he would have lost his French during that uninspired 10th grade period and regretting it.) Might we have more details about this Latin school? It sounds fascinating. As far as the amount of hours of school work, that sounds normal to me. I just would want to make sure the math and science included current math and science, not just ancient math and science, and that my child aquired the current English vocabulary as well as the FL terms. And like Gwen, I would want to speak to other parents whose children had completed the program to see what the students went on to do and whether they were successful at it and whether those time estimates were accurate for a student like mine, coming from a homeschooling background like mine. My youngest would have happily signed up for a program like this when he was 12, but we knew he was headed for engineering and made a deliberate decision not to put too much time into ancient languages. We knew, even if he didn't, that he needed the time for STEM subjects instead. I'm not saying that a child can't know what they want to do at that age. Many do. I just would be leery of anything that was going to make it so my child was unable to decide to major in science or engineering if he changed his mind later, just as I would be leery of anything that made it so my child couldn't go to college without lots of extra work in between. A year or two at community college might help him to catch up in science if he isn't too far behind, but I'd be very very careful about the math.

 

Nan

Edited June 24, 2012 by Nan in Mass