Changing life, views and your friends

[Soror]

Dh and I went last Friday to help butcher chickens. I buy from my friend that has a grass-fed farm and help to butcher to reduce our costs. Well, while people are butchering you end up talking.

 

My friend's husband asked about dh's work and he was telling him how things are not looking good, 4 day weeks most of the year and now they are going down to 3 day weeks and the future isn't looking all that optimistic. He starts going on about how anybody that wants to work can and you just have to work hard.

 

Well, really, then I guess we shouldn't worry at all, hmph. Dh does work hard, he has had more hrs than about anyone else of his position because of that but if his work closes, then he is out a job. Now, let's say he can find a job, that's great. But that assumes every job pays enough to support a family, of course they don't. Our budget is about 1/2 of theirs and my friend has told me often they couldn't live on this little. So, it is a nice thought but that doesn't mean it is rooted in reality. We have cut and cut and cut and continue to do so to prepare in case he does loses his job and our income is reduced even more drastically. I was just dumbfounded, really, do you think you could survive on just any job out there? I'm just not that naive and no it really isn't helpful. We are doing everything we can to set us up for life if he loses his job, while he does his best to make himself as indispensable as possible at his current job, taking on any and all extra work he can. But we only have control over so much. We can only cut so much. A person can only work so much.

 

Then the conversation was on food. They are all rabid Nourishing Traditions, Weston A Price fans. Ironically we likely have a cleaner diet then about anyone there but I don't see it as so black and white. I don't want to demonize people that eat differently. I don't think things are quite so linear as a lot of WAPFers think, there are too many variables in life for health, and it seems food is elevated to a god way too often. I also get tired of hearing how we have to drink raw milk to be healthy. I really want to scream, have you actually read WAP's original work? There was a wide variety of diets of people that were healthy. Seriously. They have just taken what they wanted to hear and thrown out the rest.

 

I've been into whole/natural foods for a long time, pretty much as long or considerably longer than my friends but I don't care to revolve my life around it or sit around talking about others that don't and how they are killing their children. We eat a 99% whole food diet, cooked from scratch and the best sources I can afford. BUT it isn't my life.

 

I find more and more there are things that were so important just aren't anymore. Some things are just the way we live life and that is that. I haven't changed my practices but I'm not near as militant and the things I'm focusing on in my life, are just not the same. I keep wondering these days where I will end up because it is a mystery to me! Anyone else in a similar situation? Brought together w/ people due to things you have in common and then those things change?

[Onceuponatime]

I find more and more there are things that were so important just aren't anymore. Some things are just the way we live life and that is that. I haven't changed my practices but I'm not near as militant and the things I'm focusing on in my life, are just not the same. I keep wondering these days where I will end up because it is a mystery to me! Anyone else in a similar situation? Brought together w/ people due to things you have in common and then those things change?

 

Yep. Everyone is moving and growing in different directions at different rates. I have to keep reminding myself that I am on my own journey and so is everyone else. Sometimes it's hard and lonely to find yourself in a different place than the people you once agreed with.

 

It's easier if I move away from any judgement of others at all, because it usually comes full circle and hits me back if I don't.

[KnitWit]

Your friends sound like people for whom life has always fit very neatly into their box...all dressed up with a bow. Heaven forbid the day when *life* plops out of the box!

 

Shake it off and move on and apply the wisdom you have learned from your own life experiences.

 

:grouphug:

[Soror]

It's easier if I move away from any judgement of others at all, because it usually comes full circle and hits me back if I don't.

I'm working on that, chiefly of judging myself, for standards that aren't in line with my priorities. I've had to separate to a certain degree to do that though as being entrenched in all the various things has made it hard for me to ascertain what is actually important to my family and myself. I have just been able to resolve some of that when one friend in the last week. I finally realized that I couldn't let go of her judgment because I was judging myself, as hard as I tried not to. Letting go of that put me in a better place to just let go of it all.

[AnaShoo]

I've gotten so I just don't like talking about diets and food with other people. It's almost like talking politics lately. Everyone is so sure that THEIR way of eating is the best way, and the only way to true health. I'm definitely a whole foods kind of girl, but sometimes we buy Oreos and eat them guilt-free. Looking at diets across the world, there's a huge variety in how people eat - and most of them are doing fine with what they eat. Plus, nutrition is a pretty vague science with people who can produce the results THEY are looking for, while someone else is producing a report that says the opposite...I just don't believe much of it anymore. Tell me if you have allergies, but please keep your vegan/gluten-free/raw milk, etc. ways to yourself. No one ever said you had to accept an invitation to my house if you are insistent on having food exactly the way you think is "healthiest".

 

It is frustrating to have your views shift, but your friends, who you once agreed with wholeheartedly, keep right on trucking that path. I've had this happen before (and not just about food!), and it sucks, but I suppose is just an inevitable part of life. It's those times that I'm glad we are a military family and can just count on moving away and making new friends!

[WishboneDawn]

. He starts going on about how anybody that wants to work can and you just have to work hard.

 

Well, really, then I guess we shouldn't worry at all, hmph. Dh does work hard, he has had more hrs than about anyone else of his position because of that but if his work closes, then he is out a job.

 

I find people who hold to certain positions will count any friends who counter those positions as "exceptions". You will be the exception to his belief, not any kind of evidence that perhaps he needs to re-examine it. Their beliefs are more important then your reality maybe.

 

Then the conversation was on food. They are all rabid Nourishing Traditions, Weston A Price fans. Ironically we likely have a cleaner diet then about anyone there but I don't see it as so black and white. I don't want to demonize people that eat differently. I don't think things are quite so linear as a lot of WAPFers think, there are too many variables in life for health, and it seems food is elevated to a god way too often. I also get tired of hearing how we have to drink raw milk to be healthy. I really want to scream, have you actually read WAP's original work? There was a wide variety of diets of people that were healthy. Seriously. They have just taken what they wanted to hear and thrown out the rest.

 

I've been into whole/natural foods for a long time, pretty much as long or considerably longer than my friends but I don't care to revolve my life around it or sit around talking about others that don't and how they are killing their children. We eat a 99% whole food diet, cooked from scratch and the best sources I can afford. BUT it isn't my life.

 

I find more and more there are things that were so important just aren't anymore. Some things are just the way we live life and that is that. I haven't changed my practices but I'm not near as militant and the things I'm focusing on in my life, are just not the same. I keep wondering these days where I will end up because it is a mystery to me! Anyone else in a similar situation? Brought together w/ people due to things you have in common and then those things change?

 

Thank you. Most of my friends IRL are not so radical but I keep running into people that are and I find them tiring, especially when it comes to food.

 

I've become especially tired of the term "natural" which my be ironic considering we're raising our own free-range meat and egg chickens...Ah well. We enjoy the birds, we don't obsess over them.

[Soror]

AnnaSho0- You are so right, food is just like politics. The NTers don't hold a monoply on it, certainly there are many competing for the "holiest" title. I don't bring up food in public, although people ask me a lot as we eat differently, it is near impossible not to stand out. We have to eat GF as well and have been on more restrictive diets in the past, although these days we are only strictly GF in public(I let the kids have trace soy when out and we are eating some dairy at home sometimes). I'm actually trying to move us much more in a moderate direction, while trying to keep to what helps us feel the best. Being different is only *fun* for so long. I talk about things when asked but I try to frame things in a positive manner though and try not go too deep unless people ask more. I actually talk about food a lot more online then irl.

 

I find people who hold to certain positions will count any friends who counter those positions as "exceptions". You will be the exception to his belief, not any kind of evidence that perhaps he needs to re-examine it. Their beliefs are more important then your reality maybe.

 

That is so true and I've done that myself.

 

Thank you. Most of my friends IRL are not so radical but I keep running into people that are and I find them tiring, especially when it comes to food.

 

I've become especially tired of the term "natural" which my be ironic considering we're raising our own free-range meat and egg chickens...Ah well. We enjoy the birds, we don't obsess over them.

 

Ya, well it wouldn't be good enough for *that* crowd. The conversation started by pretty much saying if it isn't grassfed it is pretty much the same as factory farming. I just started with proposing that perhaps there is a continuum but then we have to talk about how people aren't dedicated enough, etc.

 

I think your perfect in your choice of words. It is tiring especially when I am *supposed* to stay worked up about all these different things. It is making me examine myself as well.

Edited June 14, 2012 by soror

[G5052]

Your friends sound like people for whom life has always fit very neatly into their box...all dressed up with a bow. Heaven forbid the day when *life* plops out of the box!

 

Shake it off and move on and apply the wisdom you have learned from your own life experiences.

 

:grouphug:

 

Having been to the edge and back over and over in life, I find myself in the same situation. Life is sometimes extremely messy, and at times people have to make decisions that others don't understand. So when I encounter people who maintain extreme positions, I just shake my head and move on.

 

Life may catch up with them at some point. Maybe.

[mommymilkies]

Your friends sound like people for whom life has always fit very neatly into their box...all dressed up with a bow. Heaven forbid the day when *life* plops out of the box!

 

Shake it off and move on and apply the wisdom you have learned from your own life experiences.

 

:grouphug:

 

This is excellent advice. I have so btdt. :grouphug:

[justamouse]

:grouphug:

 

Yep. Sometimes friends are like seasons. And that's ok.

[Matryoshka]

I have a problem with militant people. I have no problem with radical, unless they're militant about it - meaning their way is the right way and everyone else's is wrong and either they require you to agree with them, or it's their mission to change your mind. I have lots of friends who are pretty radical in many areas of their lives - food, parenting, schooling, religion, politics, etc. (well, most of them are, as I tend to not follow the 'norm' culture in many areas of my life).

 

I don't tend to be come friendly with militant people, because I find them tiring and small-minded even if I mostly agree with their topic of militancy, and I also rarely (never?) overlap on all the areas, so anyone who's militant usually finds something wrong with me first. :tongue_smilie:

 

For example, I've heard this a lot from homeschoolers who then send their kids to school, that their homeschooling friends then turn their backs on them and shun them for somehow "abandoning the cause". I am very lucky in that my closest homeschooling friends are not militant about it - some of them have already sent their kids to school as they've gotten older, some haven't nor ever will, and we're all still friends.

[Soror]

Having been to the edge and back over and over in life, I find myself in the same situation. Life is sometimes extremely messy, and at times people have to make decisions that others don't understand. So when I encounter people who maintain extreme positions, I just shake my head and move on.

 

Life may catch up with them at some point. Maybe.

Yes, I've seen this happen with some friends. Another friend had to go back to work and another chose to send her kid to school. It makes me angry to see others show so little compassion or understanding and just UGH!

 

:grouphug:

 

Yep. Sometimes friends are like seasons. And that's ok.

Yes, I'm working on letting go with one friend in particular as I've realized we don't really fit together. I just have a hard time with it.

 

I have a problem with militant people. I have no problem with radical, unless they're militant about it - meaning their way is the right way and everyone else's is wrong and either they require you to agree with them, or it's their mission to change your mind. I have lots of friends who are pretty radical in many areas of their lives - food, parenting, schooling, religion, politics, etc. (well, most of them are, as I tend to not follow the 'norm' culture in many areas of my life).

 

I don't tend to be come friendly with militant people, because I find them tiring and small-minded even if I mostly agree with their topic of militancy, and I also rarely (never?) overlap on all the areas, so anyone who's militant usually finds something wrong with me first. :tongue_smilie:

 

For example, I've heard this a lot from homeschoolers who then send their kids to school, that their homeschooling friends then turn their backs on them and shun them for somehow "abandoning the cause". I am very lucky in that my closest homeschooling friends are not militant about it - some of them have already sent their kids to school as they've gotten older, some haven't nor ever will, and we're all still friends.

Yes, that is totally it! The militancy, it has to be this way. We are pretty radical (for our area) in most of our decisions but (relatively speaking) not terribly militant. I have been in the past more so, but at this stage I care a whole lot less.

 

Lol- they usually find something wrong with you, yep totally. My one friendship that is ended is that way. I let myself become way too hurt over this. I had heard her talking in the past about one friend that had to work(she just didn't try hard enough and then knowing the anguish that decision was for the other friend really hurt me- you cannot make money come from nothing), or another that chose school. I should have seen the writing on the wall. People can be very nice at times and very judgmental as well. Some things we need to be discerning and judge but these days many things are made into "salvation" issues that are just our preferences.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I have a problem with militant people. I have no problem with radical, unless they're militant about it - meaning their way is the right way and everyone else's is wrong and either they require you to agree with them, or it's their mission to change your mind. I have lots of friends who are pretty radical in many areas of their lives - food, parenting, schooling, religion, politics, etc. (well, most of them are, as I tend to not follow the 'norm' culture in many areas of my life).

 

I don't tend to be come friendly with militant people, because I find them tiring and small-minded even if I mostly agree with their topic of militancy, and I also rarely (never?) overlap on all the areas, so anyone who's militant usually finds something wrong with me first. :tongue_smilie:

 

For example, I've heard this a lot from homeschoolers who then send their kids to school, that their homeschooling friends then turn their backs on them and shun them for somehow "abandoning the cause". I am very lucky in that my closest homeschooling friends are not militant about it - some of them have already sent their kids to school as they've gotten older, some haven't nor ever will, and we're all still friends.

 

That's how I feel about it, too. I think most of the world's problems are caused by extremists- in politics, in religion, in greed, etc.

[TXMomof4]

Your friends sound like people for whom life has always fit very neatly into their box...all dressed up with a bow. Heaven forbid the day when *life* plops out of the box!

 

Shake it off and move on and apply the wisdom you have learned from your own life experiences.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree: It is easy to be rigid and militant when you've had no reason to be otherwise. When reality comes along and changes that it is much harder for some people than for others. Count yourself lucky that you aren't as ill-equipped as others and carry-on.

[Mommyfaithe]

Your friends sound like people for whom life has always fit very neatly into their box...all dressed up with a bow. Heaven forbid the day when *life* plops out of the box!

 

Shake it off and move on and apply the wisdom you have learned from your own life experiences.

 

:grouphug:

 

You are a wise woman!!!

[JennyD]

 

My friend's husband asked about dh's work and he was telling him how things are not looking good, 4 day weeks most of the year and now they are going down to 3 day weeks and the future isn't looking all that optimistic. He starts going on about how anybody that wants to work can and you just have to work hard.

 

 

Boy, I bet your husband he was sorry he tried to make conversation in the first place. I suppose this man's principles preclude normal pleasant responses such as, "Wow, man, sorry to hear that."?

[mytwomonkeys]

:grouphug: that's tough. i have several friends that have been very close to me since i was in middle school or high school (and i'm almost 41). we are very different now & have evolved in such different ways over the years. but we don't judge each other or pretend our life choices are superior to one another. we meet each other right where we are at in life & we celebrate successes and mourn each other's losses and sorrows. that's what friends do. things that divide us are never central to a conversation, and honestly, that eliminates a lot of topics we don't touch. but we still have so much in common that can be focused on and enjoyed. of course i have new friends, some of which are very like minded and we can talk about anything and everything. but i still value old friends and appreciate the history we have together so much. it sounds like your friends aren't being very good friends at all. you should never leave someone's home feeling judged negatively about your husband's job, your diet, etc. it isn't just about growing in different directions, it seems more-so that they can only embrace people that live exactly as they do. that's a shame.:grouphug:

[Soror]

It was more my friend's husband and others there, she wasn't in those conversations. I was surprised though as I generally really like her husband but the comment about the work was really insulting. Like well if he loses his job and you struggle it is because you don't work as hard. When we are working our tailends off here trying to make sure we are doing all we can to prevent that. Of course though, as I said previously, bad things happen to good people sometimes. Working hard and being a good person is not some guaranteed free from hardship card.

 

His wife, who is one of my closest friend, is not so much like that, although we don't always agree we don't have conversations like that. We can both be blunt when we think the other is in the wrong but we are supportive as well. I do have/had one friend in particular just like that though, everyone has to be like her, and that is the relationship I have to let go. I took it as a personal rejection. I know it is illogical. I was judging myself negatively based on her thoughts and feelings, even though they aren't in line with my own. My other friends are supportive and I try my best to be supportive as well. Because those issues really mean so little, I mean they can be big life decisions, but not compared to the things that really matter, which imo is the heart of a person, your faith, how you treat others, etc.

Edited June 16, 2012 by soror