Mom to Aly Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I'm thinking of chemistry here. Background--my daughter is very advanced, especially in reading, and we have done major reading of science, no real experimentation, but I can't really afford any. I would have to get this gradually, need to know what I really need--I'm not intending to teach her Latin, I took it for derivatives only, not whole language, I don't really want to do that to her, but I am teaching her French. Also, my dad was a nuclear physicist, quantum mechanist, for those who are familiar with it, with 2 phd's, 3 master's, and she seems to have that type of gift. She adores science (opposite of me, although I was always good at it), so I can help her with it, but it isn't my fave. Any opinions and if you could tell me what the diff books are, that would be great--I saw there is a cd, but my comp and printer aren't great, so if there is a book equivalent, that would be wonderful. I asked about other science programs earlier, but didn't find one that seemed quite right. If you know of another that is better, please lmk? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Have you looked at AIMS books and activities? http://www.aimsedu.org/index.html They seem to give a good preview of their books, and the individual activites are about $2. I'm going to try a few of the books but I haven't decided which ones yet. We are trying RS4K Chem 1 this Fall. I do think it's expensive though and I only bought the student text and workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I used RS4K Chemistry, but truthfully, all it made me feel was that I could tick off science, that I had finally covered some chemistry- it alleviated my guilt. I don't honestly think what they learned was incredibly significant in the larger scheme of things, and my kids didn't understand the last 2 or 3 chapters out of the 10. I am more of the mindset nowadays that developing a passion for nature, for how things work, for the world around us, encouraging curiosity, is of more benefit that technical knowledge, up to a certain point- probably around 12-14 or later. Now maybe that isn't going to be the case for all kids, and they might crave technical know how, I know many do, but my kids are only now enjoying science, with a teacher who is NOT me, and I feel I could have actually done nothing till now (they are 12 and 14) and they would have been fine! Just because a child is scientifically inclined doesn't mean doing things earlier is necessarily a good thing. Anyway, thats something everyone has to work out for themselves and I am just sharing my own experience. My dad is an astrophysicist and I like science, but I have not been very successful in teaching my kids in a way that they really grasp the high concepts, or inspired them. I have resorted to a teacher. RS4K is good, in a way, but in the end I think I wasted my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 my oldest was very advanced in reading and math when he was very young. If this series had be out when he was in first grade I would have used it. I know--level 1 is targeted at 3-5th grade I think, but that's where my son was. That year we did most of the experiments in 5 volumes of Adventures with Atoms and Molecules and read the encyclopedia. For 2d, my requested to use "real" lab equipment. I ended up doing Rainbow year 1 with him. It was perfect for him in 2d--again I know this is supposed to be 6-8th grade program, but that was his leve and resources were limited. It was expensive, but I had the money at the time and it worked very well for him. Fast forward, I took a few years off homeschool and my two older dc came home last year. By then dd was in 4th grade. I'm more limited on money now. I still have The Rainbow in my basement, but even though I think my dd is gifted I didn't think it would be a good fit for her or me at the time. My neighbor had just finished with RS4K level 1 and lent it to me. DD did all three this year. They are designed to be 10 week units. I thought the content was good. It was a very easy to read for dd. I liked Chemistry and Physics much better than the biology book. (I have a degree in Chem, so maybe this is a factor). dd liked the experiments. If I did this again and had more time I would use the whole series in one year with supplemental material (Kingfisher science? videos from the library) and at least one extra experiment a week (Janice Van Cleeve's books?) I would follow this plan for an advanced 3rd or average 4th. Now, a lot of people here are doing these books one a year. If I did that, I would start with Chem level 1 in first. I would use tons of extra experiments and supplemental library material (books and video). I would be sure to add the Connects to Language roots program that goes with it too. That is not to say you couldn't use just the chem book this year with an advanced 9 year old. I just think you have to honor her gift and make sure she has extra material at her level. RS4K chem could still be a good back bone to base a full year study. That is my perspective, based on my background in science. Now, I will say if you use only this program and do all the experiments it provides, your child will be prepared for middle school level science. Many homeschoolers don't like science and don't involve themselves in teaching it. For some kids, telling them to read a little and answer a few questions is not going to be enough to learn material from any science program from any publisher. One program I have not examined, because I only recently learned about it is the Prentice Hall Science Explorer series. This is supposed to be middle school stuff, but for an advanced kid, it may be just right. You may want to look at samples of that and consider if you can do the experiments of you can sub experiments from Janice Van Cleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneGrey Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 BACKGROUND: Purchased RS4K student books only for chemistry level 1 Reason for purchase (after seeing sample online) to organize the information for my guys (6, 4) in a nice glossy reader for them. Reason for NOT purchasing the teacher's text Considered purchasing just the teacher's text (which seems to include the student text as well as the experiment information and some other remarks), but looking at the sample, the text for the teacher didn't seem that great and it wouldn't have been as nice a reader as the student book. Reason for NOT purchasing the experiment workbook There are only 10 for each subject (as Betty said). Didn't seem worth the price. Already had done lots of experiments (Adventures with Atoms and Molecules, various Van Cleave books). Figured I could find experiments myself in the books we had. I think you can figure out what the experiments are by looking at the list of supplies needed per unit (available online). REVIEW: If you're short on money, I THINK that the teacher's text has everything. However, I like the student text. It was concise and pretty straightforward with nice pictures and nice size text for the kids, and the price wasn't bad ($19.77 now at amazon). See here for samples of both: http://www.arn.org/realscience/realscience_morabout.html#sc I think this is a nice starting point for studying chemistry. I haven't been able to find a good "complete" science curriculum for mine either, so we've been studying the Periodic Table of Elements. Have you considered getting a science encyclopedia for her to read for enjoyment? We got the Usborne Internet-Linked Science Encyclopedia. I'm with you: I got good grades in science even at the college level but I wasn't asking lots of questions. Mine asks lots of questions, forcing me to think about things that I never bothered to before. I dream of having him sit at the feet of astrophysicists as they discuss theories over dinner. A friend who formerly worked in a microbio lab really liked this series, especially the introduction of chemistry before biology, but decided to go with Ardoin's Home School Science in Your Home series for her children (approx. 12, 10). I know it's high school level, but you might be able to tweak it. Sample pages here: http://www.scienceforhighschool.com/chemsamples.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I would go with the student text, and add in more experiments. My kids have really enjoyed the layout and the text so far (we've done biology), but we all felt there needed to be more hands-on experiments. I think what the student text does best is give you a good framework, and from there you can expand as you like. The definations and descriptions of things are concise and written in a manner that is friendly to kids without talking down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I really like her books. I bought the Pre-1 Chemistry level, TM and experiment book. The kids loved it, loved the color, the big type, everything about it except it didn't last long enough for them. I thought it was a little expensive if you get all the bells and whistles, so now I am looking to use them more as readers. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Have you looked at The Elements? Lorna has some great posts on her blog about it. I've used RS4K and thought it was OK. I'm using The Elements this year instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I have a chemical engineering background, and RS4K 1 is the text I would have had to write if Dr. Keller didn't do it first--it uses the actual scientific terms, explains the concepts very well, and avoids the need for algebra in doing so. It is very impressive. I also like physics, but the biology is a bit spotty. If you want just chemistry, before they came out with the whole level 1 curriculum they published chemistry as a set, with a TE and separate student text and experiment set. If you can find a used set like that, it would be a big savings relative to having to buy the whole TE for the year. These do pop up on the for sale boards from time to time. If you want to flesh this out with more information, I recommend Awesome Ocean Science for water chemistry, and Exploring the World of Chemistry for more historical and detailed chemical information, but no real chemical terms. The latter has some Christian flavor, but not strongly so--just history info about the fact that some of the early chemists were Christians and motivated by their faith to some extent. But really, RS4K Chemistry is outstanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieF Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 For a 5 yr old would you get the pre level 1 or jump to level 1. I was just going to get the pre level one student text and then go onto level 1 say next yr. Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I have a chemical engineering background, and RS4K 1 is the text I would have had to write if Dr. Keller didn't do it first--it uses the actual scientific terms, explains the concepts very well, and avoids the need for algebra in doing so. It is very impressive. Carol, do you have any opinion on AIMS Chemistry Matters book? (I don't have a strong chem. background). http://www.aimsedu.org/index.html wwws.aimsedu.org/aims_store/Chemistry-Matters-p-1185.html Would it complement RS4K Chem 1, or would it be too redundant? I'm not the OP but thanks for the other suggestions! Aach...sorry I can't get the full link to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Carol, do you have any opinion on AIMS Chemistry Matters book? (I don't have a strong chem. background). http://www.aimsedu.org/index.html wwws.aimsedu.org/aims_store/Chemistry-Matters-p-1185.html Would it complement RS4K Chem 1, or would it be too redundant? I'm not the OP but thanks for the other suggestions! Aach...sorry I can't get the full link to work. RS4K has the great nomenclature, and an outstanding scope and sequence. The other two books that I mentioned flesh it out really, really well but don't use the real nomenclature. So they complement it really well. Wearing a periodic table t-shirt from time to time is also helpful :001_smile: I got one from the Lawrence Hall of Science, and it's that visual reminder. I like the chemistry coverage in Rainbow, but it is too hard for most kids before 6th or 7th grade, I think. And RS4K Level II is so outstanding that even if I did Rainbow, I would probably do it, too. It has orbital pictures that I didn't see until AP Chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneGrey Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 For a 5 yr old would you get the pre level 1 or jump to level 1. I was just going to get the pre level one student text and then go onto level 1 say next yr. Stephanie I would get the pre-level 1. I bought both levels at the same time. Have you checked out the samples online to see the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 So I go and look at the samples of RS4Ks, and I'm really intrigued. Clear concepts, well explained, and in a visually interesting package. Then the "alarm-bells" start going off when I discover the author, Dr Rebecca W, Keller, is strongly associated with "Intelligent Design" proponents. Is this a program with a "stealth" agenda? It's fine with me if a program is upfront and honest when it deviates from "mainstream" science (or any other subject), but I get a very bad feeling when I feel curriculum has a hidden agenda. And I have that bad feeling now. Am I wrong? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 So I go and look at the samples of RS4Ks, and I'm really intrigued. Clear concepts, well explained, and in a visually interesting package. Then the "alarm-bells" start going off when I discover the author, Dr Rebecca W, Keller, is strongly associated with "Intelligent Design" proponents. Is this a program with a "stealth" agenda? It's fine with me if a program is upfront and honest when it deviates from "mainstream" science (or any other subject), but I get a very bad feeling when I feel curriculum has a hidden agenda. And I have that bad feeling now. Am I wrong? Bill Hi Bill, it is my understanding that yes, the author is strongly associated with Intelligent Design. I think I can confidently say though that the Chemistry level I used (middle school) had no taint of ID that I could detect, and was very useable by secular folk like myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 You would probably love RS4K; they were written by a homeschooling scientist. Her theory is that all the sciences are related. There are 3 subjects: Biology, Chemistry, Physics with different levels. Her website is http://www.gravitaspublications.com/. I know her personally and she is a great thinker! quote=Mom to Aly;346409]I'm thinking of chemistry here. Background--my daughter is very advanced, especially in reading, and we have done major reading of science, no real experimentation, but I can't really afford any. I would have to get this gradually, need to know what I really need--I'm not intending to teach her Latin, I took it for derivatives only, not whole language, I don't really want to do that to her, but I am teaching her French. Also, my dad was a nuclear physicist, quantum mechanist, for those who are familiar with it, with 2 phd's, 3 master's, and she seems to have that type of gift. She adores science (opposite of me, although I was always good at it), so I can help her with it, but it isn't my fave. Any opinions and if you could tell me what the diff books are, that would be great--I saw there is a cd, but my comp and printer aren't great, so if there is a book equivalent, that would be wonderful. I asked about other science programs earlier, but didn't find one that seemed quite right. If you know of another that is better, please lmk? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senunk Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Bill, this may give you the information you are looking for: http://gravitashomeschool.wordpress.com/category/evolution-id-and-creationism/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom to Aly Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 Gosh, guys, thanks for all the info--it really does look good, although I'm afraid we will go through it quickly. I think the teacher text will do us best, but I'd love to get the student text. It's funny, my background and degrees are in lit and French lang & lit, and I've taught Eng & French lit, and Creative Writing in University, and homeschool classes, and have no prob teaching anything related to that, but the thought of making up my own lessons for science is not a thrill! Maybe I'll pretend it is a character in a book doing it--that might work : P I am afraid we will go through this really quickly-we do have the Usborne Science Encyclopedia, and, while it put me to sleep, my daughter adores it--but I was hoping for something I could enjoy, um, I mean my daughter could enjoy : ) Thanks guys!!!! As always!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Bill, this may give you the information you are looking for:http://gravitashomeschool.wordpress.com/category/evolution-id-and-creationism/ Thank you very much for the link Senunk! Unfortunately it confirmed my worst fears. I'll withhold further comment, as I don't wish to hijack the thread. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I don't think much of the RS4K biology and physics books, but chemistry is great. Calvin (advanced) did it at nine and really enjoyed it. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Thank you very much for the link Senunk! Unfortunately it confirmed my worst fears. I'll withhold further comment, as I don't wish to hijack the thread. Bill Bill, Yes the author does believe in intelligent design, but she also believes in presenting facts and allowing children to make up their own minds, not trying to sway them in any way. Thus her books are free of the Apologia type commentary on ID, and there are a lot of people who use RS4K secularly without ever realizing the author is ID, I know because when it occasionally comes up on the yahoo group they are totally shocked. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Bill I've done RS4K chem prelevel I and will be doing chem level I. I can say there was NO religion what so ever in the textbook, teacher book, or workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Gosh, guys, thanks for all the info--it really does look good, although I'm afraid we will go through it quickly. That is my main worry, is how quickly we may go through it, but now I am looking at the new KOGS pieces and wondering if we can use those to make it last a little longer.... Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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