frugalmama Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm hoping for some insight on this, as I really don't know what to do here. Please don't quote as I'll probably take this down. I posted before about my brother passing away, and how my SIL has custody of his two youngest children. Even before my brother passed away, SIL didn't want us to call to see how he was doing when he was in the hospital, wouldn't let us talk to brother's kids {it's a blended family - she would let us talk to her kids}, etc. But we called anyway on my brother's cell and found out how they were doing, etc. That's not an option anymore. It's been 2 weeks since we've had any contact with SIL, and close to a month since we've talked to either of my brother's children as SIL doesn't seem to like them to talk to us on the phone. I didn't think too much of being about to contact her as she said her cell phone died and the house phone was cut off until she could pay it, and I know she's been having money troubles since my brother passed away. We've been trying it daily to see if it's turned back on yet, but it never did the disconnected message IYKWIM so I was confused. We NEVER get an answer on their home phone, even when I know from her facebook that they are home. She just posted on facebook for someone else to call her on said home phone - so I'm pretty sure she just isn't letting anyone answer the phone when we call and the phone isn't really turned off. I know they have caller ID on the TV when the phone rings. WWYD? We REALLY don't want to lose contact with these kids. This is really hurting my mom - she traveled up to stay with these kids when they were little prior to my brother marrying this SIL. We normally talked to these kids almost daily, from the time they were toddlers. She is extremely close to both of them, and I know that the older one is NOT taking my brother's death well and has never fully gotten along with SIL. I am extremely concerned as I know this SIL has both a on again off again drinking problem and some type of mood disorder that requires daily medication, which she has decided not to take in the past for short periods of time until her family forced her to take it again. Do we have any legal recourse to force her to let us contact the kids? To get custody or visitation? We are not in the same state FWIW, SIL and the kids are in OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I don't know the legal ins and outs, but did she adopt them when she married your brother? If not, did he name her as guardian in his will? If not, it seems like there might be a chance of doing something legally. If the answer to either is yes, I wouldn't count on it unless there is some strong evidence that she is unfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I don't know what legal recourse there is, but I'd certainly be looking in to it with a lawyer, especially since these kids are her "steps" and she is keeping them away from blood relatives. Did your brother have a will stipulating that she got custody/guardianship of the kids, or was it just by tacit agreement because the kids lived with them at the time of his death? My advice is contact a lawyer ASAP. Hopefully someone here will know if you need to contact one in your state, or their state of residence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 I don't know the legal ins and outs, but did she adopt them when she married your brother? If not, did he name her as guardian in his will? If not, it seems like there might be a chance of doing something legally. If the answer to either is yes, I wouldn't count on it unless there is some strong evidence that she is unfit. I don't know what legal recourse there is, but I'd certainly be looking in to it with a lawyer, especially since these kids are her "steps" and she is keeping them away from blood relatives. Did your brother have a will stipulating that she got custody/guardianship of the kids, or was it just by tacit agreement because the kids lived with them at the time of his death? She adopted them about 2 weeks prior to my brother's death to keep them out of their bio-mom's hands. Bio mom has a history of drugging them and putting them in unsafe situations to say the least. Right now I just don't know what to do. I'm slapping my hands to keep from posting on her recent FB post asking someone else to call her and saying publicly that I though she said her home phone was broken and that's why she wasn't answering our calls. You'd think she'd answer our calls - my mom was the beneficiary in my brother's life insurance policy {taken out by his father when brother was a child} and SIL thinks she is entitled to 100% of it because she was married to him:glare:. It's hard to send money to someone when they don't answer the phone IYKWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 She adopted them and is their mother. "Grandparents" rights are increasingly not supported in the courts. You have very little recourse or power. The rest of the backstory, her motives, the history really don't matter legally. I'm sorry that the kids aren't benefitting from a rich and full life with many adults who love them and want to be involved. It seems you'll need to be involved only on her terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 You Ned to contact a family practice atty. I do know a grand,other who got visitation rights after her daughter died, when her grandchild was 3 or younger. This will depend on each state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I agree you should contact a family lawyer. I'm not a lawyer but, per discussions of grandparents' rights in other contexts, I'm pretty sure this is the only situation where grandparents can assert their right to contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 :grouphug: I've known a few people to sue for custody of children, so it's clearly something that can be done even if you aren't a parent. Sorry you're hurting. There is a way you can call someone which blocks their caller id from working *49 or something like that before you call. You could probably google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 You say she adopted the children two weeks before BIL died. However, adoptions take much longer than that to process when a biological parent is still alive and potentially, could be allowed parental rights. Since their mother is still alive, unless parental rights had already gone through the termination process (rarely less than 1 yr. and oft times 2), the adoption would not be finalized yet. When my brother adopted his wife's daughter, even though her father surrendered parental rights in court and signed the papers same day, it took two months for the court to process the whole thing and then call my brother back into court to take the oath and sign the paperwork. Therefore, unless two weeks before BIL's death was an actual day of finalization, the custody of the children is up for grabs. The court may have awarded her sole custody temporarily until the adoption can be finalized and certainly the foster care system does not want them if there is a good home amongst family members to be had so this would generally be amenable to case workers, but custody is still a possibility for blood relatives. You'll need a good attorney because the court is NOT going to take them away from her just because everyone else wants visitation. But, if there is a blood relative that wants them and there is concern about one of the children's health, then you may have something to go on. If the adoption is final, there is nothing that can be done. The courts simply do not recognize any rights for extended family. Though it is really hard in cases like this, I fully agree with the courts because if extended family had "rights" then none of us could keep our children away from toxic relatives and believe me, people are related to dangerous screwballs that would sue for their right to visit children and tell them wicked lies or abuse them. So, the protection of parental right is paramount, but it has it's dark side which you are finding out. I'm very sorry for your loss. :grouphug: Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Be supportive and get communication going... These kids need adults who will work together...write her a letter, tell her your mother would like to set up a trust for the kids or tell her your mother wants to meet with her to see what her needs are...instead of giving her money offer to pay her grocery bills or buy all the children clothes...make it where she appreciates the help not resent it...ask if you can work out a weekend a month to give her a break...offer to take them all on a vacation to Disneyworld...anything to start a better line of communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 on Grandparent rights in Oklahoma. http://grandparents.about.com/od/grandparentsrights/qt/Grandparent_Rights_in_Oklahoma.html It's very expensive, though, to pursue a case in a different state, and I know those considerations are always a problem. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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