This might sound ridiculous, but how does a day of breastfeeding work for you...

[Dianne-TX]

I'm having baby #4 this summer and I've never been completely successful at breastfeeding. DS11 was a nicu baby and it was not doable, so I ended up pumping for a few weeks and then when my milk kept going down, we just went to formula. DD9 was a textbook baby, good nurser, but still only worked for about 2-3 months when my milk went down. Switched to formula. I never felt like I kept a good supply, but I never was properly taught or educated either. I would just want to get back to normalcy instead of nursing/pumping all the time. 7 years later, DS2 was the baby that I had more knowledge with and a more confident stance on breastfeeding and just feeding on demand or whenever he cried. But, I was encouraged to use a nipple shield in the hospital and that just made things hard and again, I felt my supply go down and couldn't seem to fill him up. So, switched to formula with him, too. With all of them, I never had a painful time drying up, so I wonder if I do indeed have issues with low milk supply. I was diagnosed with PCOS in between DD9 and DS2 and I know that can affect milk supply. I've been on metformin since last summer and this has been the best pregnancy thus far as far as weight and water retention go. I think it's the metformin. But, back to the actual act of breastfeeding, is it as simple I am thinking? Feed often, feed on demand. Shouldn't that work? I know there are all these other scenarios that don't make it simple, though, like latch issues, developmental issues or mouth issues, etc. Am I being too simple about this? I have to think through this, just the way I am, especially with it not working out with 3 other dc. So, give me a scenario of how breastfeeding looks in your life. I'm also aware that I need to contact LLL when the time comes. I've never done that in the past, but only used the lactation consultant in the hospital. I'm just afraid I'll give up again this time.

[Guest dawnrachele]

This is my first post, but I really wanted to register to answer your question.

 

I have 2 boys and breastfeeding went well for both of them but for my first it was horrible in the beginning. I really wish I had gone to LLL meetings when I was still pregnant and got to know the ladies before I needed their help. I also wished I had hired a lactation consultant.

 

You do have the right idea though, feed on demand, feed often :)

 

Congrats of your 4th!!!

[chepyl]

Get the book "So That's What They're For." It was the best baby gift I was ever given! I united both of mine until about two years and plan to do the same with #3 when he arrives this summer. I nurse on demand. I pump when I am teaching a long night. I pump in the middle of the night if they sleep through a feeding.

 

Drink lots of water and make sire you eat enough.

[mom2myboys]

:grouphug: I am sorry for the struggles you have had in the past. It is great that you are thinking about breastfeeding ahead of your baby's arrival. Being prepared with information and a support system may be very helpful to you. PCOS can affect milk supply, but many women have done well while on Metformin for treatment. A book that I would highly recommend reading before your baby arrives is called "The Breastfeeding Mother's Guide to Making More Milk". It discusses causes of low milk supply, including PCOS and many other causes. You may see something that relates to your past experience and may even find some ideas on improving your experience this time around. Calling a LLL Leader right away is also a great idea. She can discuss things with you (and may even be able to lend you the book I mentioned if it is in their lending library) and give you a game plan for when the baby arrives. It can be comforting to have a plan.

 

Best of luck to you!

[VeganCupcake]

It seems like my babies have nursed every couple of hours around the clock when they were in early infancy, and more often in the evening, sometimes nursing pretty much constantly from 8 to 11 p.m. Cluster feeding like that is very common in the first couple of months.

 

Yes, PCOS can affect milk supply, and being on metformin might really help with that.

 

You are right that nursing often and on demand is the way to go. That means 8 to 12 times in 24 hours in the first couple of months. You really can't nurse a very young baby too much.

 

I nurse baby in bed sometimes, but usually I sit on the couch and we read stories or do a puzzle or whatever while baby nurses. Since your other kids are a bit older, they should not get in too much trouble while you nurse the baby. :)

 

If you find you need help with latch or some related issue, find an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant). Not all hospital lactation consultants have adequate training or have the time to spend with you to really help. A LLL leader can help, too, and can help you find the right professional resources in your community.

[Reflections]

This is the best book about nursing IMHO - http://www.amazon.com/Breastfeeding-Mothers-Guide-Making-More/dp/007159857X/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339215276&sr=1-5

 

I would not have been as successful this time around had it not been for that book.

 

Best of luck with this. Try to remember that a healthy, happy baby and mom is the goal - doesn't much matter how you get there. :001_smile:

[mom2myboys]

Something else to look at is your thyroid function. Either under- or over-active thyroid function can affect milk supply as well.

[BlueTaelon]

It sounds like you hit a growth spurt and instead of having a lay in with the baby like you should have you doubted yourself and gave the baby formula which messed with your supply and started the weaning process. I would read, read, read, attend LLL meetings now while still prego even if you have to drive a bit, it's worth it:) I had a firm rule, no formula was allowed in my home period so there was no temptation to use it. If baby needed more milk then I knew i Just needed to drink more water and nurse 24-7 for a few days sometimes a week to get my supply up. I had a lot of problems nursing both my kids but I did it, and if i can do it so can others, we had darn near every problem in the book from inverted nipples to baby that was bottle fed the first 8 weeks(who loved her bottle! And did not want to nurse) to thrush to FTT issues to severe food allergies to severe neuro issues and a baby who couldn't even suck/form a seal to tounge tie. Both kids went on to be extended nursers:001_smile: it takes a lot of determination on moms part and if I hadn't had the knowledge I did going in I would have given up too.

[Dianne-TX]

Wow, thanks ladies! You are so encouraging! I will take all your advice and look into your book recommendations. I would love to hear more! It encourages me to believe this is doable. :) I just remembered something a friend at church told me recently. She said that japanese women eat 10 eggs a day after giving birth in order to get good fats and nutrition for nursing.

[Ellie]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Even two or three months of nursing is better than no nursing, as far as baby's nutrition and well-being are concerned. :)

 

ITA with whoever said you should start going to LLL meetings now, if possible. Don't wait until the baby is born (although that isn't too late to go, either).

 

Rules of thumb: The more you nurse, the more milk you make. No pacifier. No bottles of anything. Ever. No pumping. Co-sleep if at all possible. Drink a gallon of liquid a day, and eat 1000 extra calories. Don't watch the clock; just sit down and nurse. Don't judge the amount of milk you're producing by how *you* feel; judge by how the baby feels.

[nd293]

Feed often, feed on demand is an accurate description of what bfeeding looked like for me. I also instinctively believed that bfeeding had to work - that, evolutionarily speaking, not being able to feed was a way of writing a gene line out of existence, and I wasn't going to be written out! (I am not minimizing anyone else's experience, just giving my thinking at the time.) If the babies seemed hungry, I fed more often, and yes, it did seem constant at times. With dd I had tended to feed only one one side at night (due to sleeping arrangements - we were co-sleeping) and she developed a strong preference, and I did stop producing milk on one side. It was impossibly difficult to try to restimulate supply, and I simply fed on the other side exclusively for the next 18 months. My primary advice would be to just keep feeding, and only to supplement if you're literally at the stage where you can't function because the baby is wanting to feed constantly. Feeding stimulates supply.

 

Good luck!

[mumto2]

The most important thing is to keep feeding through a growth spurt. They supposedly happen at set ages--neither of mine had their growth spurts "properly". They will seem to be perminantly latched on to "empty" breasts for approximately 48 hours. This is natures way of increasing your milk supply. When it is over things will go back to "normal". Get in touch with LLL now if you can. Support really helps.

[garddwr]

Cosleeping and frequent night nursing work wonders for milk supply. Realistically, I probably nurse a newborn 20 times in a 24 hour period--but don't worry about "x number of minutes on each side". I find that my friends who have the hardest time maintaining milk supply are also the ones who brag about their babies sleeping so well through the night, and I'm personally convinced there is a link. That would be my top advice to any woman trying to establish and maintain a good milk supply.

 

That being said, there are very occasionally women who in spite of everything never produce a really good milk supply. I just want to encourage you in case this happens to you that you can do everything right and still not have milk. Many pro-breastfeeding people will say every woman can produce enough milk, but I think there have always been a few women who had to rely on wet nurses or other alternatives. The nice thing is we have much better, more nutritious alternative formulas now than women had available in the past.

[Momof3littles]

I have PCOS and use metformin as well. I did not use it immediately post partum with my 1st (doc had me wean off in pregnancy) but I still ended up with oversupply, when I was concerned about under supply. I remained on met during pregnancy and BFing with my 2nd and 3rd pregnancy.

 

I attended a few LLL meetings while I was still pg with my first, and that was tremendously helpful. You already have a support network that way, a leader to call if you have issues, and you can get some good info early.

 

I skimmed through the other responses, so it may have been mentioned, but Kellymom is a wonderful resource, and well-referenced. http://kellymom.com/ I also like anything by Dr. Jack Newman, and every nursing mom should own The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. Read it in advance, so you know what a good latch looks like, what you can do for supply issues, what a growth spurt looks like, etc. Lots of what women perceive as "supply issues" really aren't, or can be resolved with some work.

 

Prior to giving birth to my DS1, I also called the hospital LC and talked with her about my concerns that PCOS would affect BFing for me. She was somewhat helpful and dug up a few small studies for me. I think establishing the relationship, and knowing she was there if I had issues, was very helpful. I didn't end up really needing her but it was nice to have that in my back pocket in case I did need her. Look for an IBCLC if you can, because some "lactation consultants" are nurses with minimal or no real BFing training for example. The IBCLC will help you weed out some people who maybe aren't as knowledgeable. I mention that only because sometimes nurses hand out inaccurate info about BFing.

 

I agree that having a "nurse in" when your supply feels low can be very helpful. Cosleep (safely) for a nap or at night when you can as baby's dream feeds may boost supply for you. I think that always really helped me.

 

Each of my babies was different but I'd say it wasn't uncommon for them to BF for 12-14 times in a day early on, maybe even more like 20 at times. I did have some sleepy babies who needed me to wake them to feed...undressing them, etc. to get them awake enough to eat. I also never let them go longer than 3-4 hours at night without waking them until they had a good pattern of feeding, regained birth weight, etc.

 

Read up on some of the common issues now, and ways they can be resolved. That helped me know what I was looking for (real supply issue vs. perceived supply issue and what to do about it). A baby pooping and peeing enough is a very reassuring sign, and even if they are sometimes fussy while feeding or want to nurse, nurse, nurse, it doesn't necessarily mean a supply issue. A baby who sucks down a bottle after BFing doesn't necessarily need more milk; babies like to suck and it isn't uncommon for them to take a bottle even if supply is adequate. I'd read up on those scenarios on Kellymom or in the Womanly Art, so you know more about a real vs. perceived supply issue.

 

Best wishes to you!

Edited June 9, 2012 by Momof3littles

[HelenNotOfTroy]

If you feel like you are nursing all the time, you are probably on the right track. If you are in pain or baby is not gaining well, get help. La leche league and/or a good lactation consultant are great resources to find now so you have phone numbers by the phone if you need them.

[Bluegoat]

When you said your milk supply started to crash, how did you know that was happening? What did it look like?

 

It isn't an uncommon scenario for that to happen, and usually it is a problem that can be dealt with. The causes can vary though - it could be that there isn't a great latch, it could be hormonal reasons, it could be you have borderline supply and so when demand goes up it seems like you haven't got enough.

 

I also suggest reading the book on breastfeeding with low supply.

[Susan in TN]

Wow, thanks ladies! You are so encouraging! I will take all your advice and look into your book recommendations. I would love to hear more! It encourages me to believe this is doable. :) I just remembered something a friend at church told me recently. She said that japanese women eat 10 eggs a day after giving birth in order to get good fats and nutrition for nursing.

 

All the hospitals I've given birth in had lactation consultants available. Even after having a few kids, I always had the consultant come in for some help. Nursing was always a struggle for me too, with the exception of my last baby. She was the only one who seemed to nurse really well, have all the wet/poopy diapers that are expected, and gained weight like crazy. The only things that were different with her that I can remember is that I had her completely natural (in a hospital w/midwife) and I *made* myself drink 16oz of water every time I nursed.

 

My other nursing habits are to have a cozy nursing spot w/all my "supplies" handy - diapers, cloths, footrest, pillows, TV :) - for at least the first 3 or 4 months. I also planned ahead to do virtually nothing and go nowhere for a good month unless I just really, really wanted to.

[happypamama]

With a newborn, I am nursing pretty much continually. Absolute minimum of 8 times a day, and more like 12 or more. Baby should be nursing at minimum every three hours (from the start of one nursing to another), and every two is more likely for my babies. Sometimes every hour. :) (My smallest baby has been 8 pounds, and I've one at almost 10, and three of them have been a week late, so that may put them on the hungrier side too; IDK.) If the baby is nursing frequently during the day, it may be acceptable for the baby to go 5 hours at night, but only one 5-hour block. (And if I was concerned about supply, I'd be inclined to try to nurse baby every three hours at night as well.) Use both sides as much as possible -- let baby nurse on one side until it feels considerably softer, baby seems happy, you've seen/heard lots of good sucking and swallowing, burp baby, and switch to the other side. Baby may or may not want the other side, and if not, start with that side the next time.

 

(I do use block feeding, where I use the same side for all feedings in about three or four hours, which gets more of the fattier hindmilk into the baby, but for supply concerns, I'd want to try offering both sides at one feeding, to get the most stimulation for the breast. I wouldn't worry about block feeding immediately.)

 

My favorite breastfeeding book is the Nursing Mother's Companion, by Kathleen Huggins, but in-person help may be the most beneficial thing -- a LLL leader, a certified lactation consultant (hospital nurses may call themselves LCs but may or may not have good training; look for a certified one at ilca.org), a friend or relative who has btdt, even an online forum like this one.

 

Barring a real issue, the more stimulation, the more milk will be made. Resist people who want to give a bottle, and ask them to watch your older children instead so that you can nap with the baby. If the latching thing isn't happening, take a breath, hand the baby to someone for a minute, get a glass of water, and try again. And when it seems like all you're doing is breastfeeding the baby, AGAIN, that's probably a growth spurt, and you need to keep nursing as much as you possibly can during that time, so your body gets the message to make MORE!

 

Good luck! Please feel free to PM me if I can offer any more specific help. I'm not an LC, just an experienced mom who's read a lot too and who is happy to help in any way I can.

[Farrar]

My experience with the hospital LC was abysmal and I've heard similar stories from others about this. If you can afford it, I'd hire your own LC ahead of time. I had done so and was very glad I could tell the hospital LC to go away.

 

Hugs and good luck.

[ktgrok]

I'm also going to say that you need to go to LLL meetings while still pregnant! Make some contacts, get to know people, so when/if you have a problem you have someone to go to.

 

Also, when you say you couldn't "fill them up" when breastfeeding, what does that mean? If you mean they wanted to nurse for hours in the evening and nursed around the clock the rest of the time, that is normal nursing behavior. I'd spend some time on the kellymom.com site, and read up on cluster feeding. So many moms think their supply isn't ok, when it is just normal behavior.

 

Also, do you have any friends that have successfully breastfed? Can you hang out with them alot when the baby is young? That kind of friendly environment really helps.

[garddwr]

Thought I'd chime in again with a sample "schedule":

 

12:27 AM--baby starts squirming in the crook of my arm, I roll over, nurse baby, go back to sleep.

 

2:54 AM: Baby restless again. Change diaper, nurse baby, swaddle, go back to sleep.

 

5:14 AM: Baby wakes, nurse baby, go to the bathroom, get drink of water, put wakeful baby in swing, go back to sleep.

 

7:02 AM: Get up, baby is sleeping, shower, get breakfast, baby is awake, change diaper, nurse.

 

9:38 AM nurse

 

OK, I'm running out of time to type, but this shows the general idea--with a small baby that's what things look like. As my babies get older they nurse less often, but we continue to nurse throughout the day and night and sometimes a growth spurt hits and it seems we go back to a newborn pattern for awhile.

[ktgrok]

Hide all the clocks in your house if you have to. Honestly, watch the baby, not the clock. If the baby is fussy try nursing first, rather than last. Don't think "well,he couldn't be hungry again already." INstead, just feed him. If he doesn't want to nurse you will be able to tell. But he probably will, and that will stimulate your supply. Finish one breast before moving to the next. Remember that babies nurse because they are hungry, tired, thirsty, uncomfortable, etc. Think of how often a baby has a pacifier in their mouth, then realize that those are manmade....that for most of our existence as humans babies only sucked on their mother, not a pacifier.

[jennsmile]

You have gotten some great advice.

 

You need to keep in mind too when baby first comes you are engorged and have tons of milk. After awhile things settle down and you won't feel as large, your bOOks might feel like there is not milk but there still is, but your body is still making just what your need. Birth control pills can also make a drop in your milk. Be sure you are counting diapers when you think your milk supply may be low, it might surprise you. I know with my current very laid back baby who doesn't seem to nurse as much I was worrying till I started counting diapers for a day or two. Yes he was fine, despite what I thought was infrequent nursing and very soft bOOks.

 

You can do this! LLL is great for support or find some breastfeeding friends from church or homeschool group to support your efforts.

[jennsmile]

Hide all the clocks in your house if you have to. Honestly, watch the baby, not the clock. If the baby is fussy try nursing first, rather than last. Don't think "well,he couldn't be hungry again already." INstead, just feed him. If he doesn't want to nurse you will be able to tell. But he probably will, and that will stimulate your supply. Finish one breast before moving to the next. Remember that babies nurse because they are hungry, tired, thirsty, uncomfortable, etc. Think of how often a baby has a pacifier in their mouth, then realize that those are manmade....that for most of our existence as humans babies only sucked on their mother, not a pacifier.

:iagree: I got a finger sucker this go around. All my other babies used me as a pacifier. We simply never had pacifers, if the baby was fussy we nursed. My current guy will suck his fingers till the cows come home.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

With a newborn, I nursed every time the baby looked at me, and sometimes even when they didn't look at me. Awake? Let's nurse. Sleepy? Let's nurse.

 

Now with a five month old, we nurse every three-ish hours in the day, but sometimes it's 2, and sometimes it's 4 hours apart... just whatever is convenient and wanted. At night, if she wakes, I nurse. So that's another 1-3 sessions usually.

[happypamama]

Remember that babies nurse because they are hungry, tired, thirsty, uncomfortable, etc.

So very true! Anything is a good reason to nurse -- waking up, sleepy, hot, cold, someone new entered the room and you need to check that Mom's still there. . .

 

I've not done pacifiers with any of my babies, and if you're concerned about supply, I would absolutely not use a pacifier for at least six weeks Even then, I'd be very careful about using one, especially during a growth spurt; I'd try to save the pacifier for car rides when you can't easily stop, when Mom is showering or cooking, stuff like that. My DH has had a few of ours suck on his finger for a few minutes while I shower, but IIRC, some of them won't even go for that. My two littlest guys did like their fingers/thumbs for a bit after the first few weeks, but usually after they had just nursed and were sleepy; I would burp them, wrap them in a carrier on my chest, and they'd find their thumbs/fingers and fall asleep. But if they were awake, and I saw them putting fingers/fists/thumbs in mouths, I generally took that as a request for milk and nursed them.

 

I do think the biggest factor in breastfeeding success is external support, though, especially if things are less than textbook simple. I would really have a heart-to-heart with your husband, and people like your mom or MIL, if they'll be around a lot post-birth, about how nursing should be your #1 priority, how they shouldn't try to hold the baby off for a bit unless you're truly unavailable, etc.

[Dianne-TX]

Thank you all so much! I am so encouraged and excited to try again. My thinking sounds on track with your advice. I will contact LLL, too. What a great group you are.

[Laura Corin]

You are definitely on the right track. It's important to realise that there is a wide variation in normal. Calvin fed every two hours but slept through the night. Hobbes fed every four hours but woke up to feed. Both normal for them and they both kept my supply up with no problem.

 

Laura

[mommymilkies]

Something else to look at is your thyroid function. Either under- or over-active thyroid function can affect milk supply as well.

 

:iagree: I also had nursing troubles (medical) with my first two. They nursed for 9 and 2 months, respectively. It can hurt knowing that you couldn't do it, but please remember that every day counts. You got some good time in and be proud of it! Some women have production problems. You're not alone! Even the fact that you tried means a great deal. I would suggest getting treatment for the PCOS and looking into your thyroid. Whether or not you nurse, I would suggest looking at dietary changes-they can REALLY help with PCOS and thus supply.

 

A day of nursing depends on the child & lifestyle! I'm a lazy nurser. :lol: I let her nurse on demand whenever and wherever. It doesn't get in the way and it's a whole lot easier than bottlefeeding! Nothing to clean or do special. Nothing to remember to take with me (besides the baby!). And don't worry too much if baby is demanding to nurse a lot. There are a lot of physiological reasons for baby to do so that have nothing to do with your supply-emotional reasons (pain is a common one-the oxytocin release helps when nursing), teething, growth spurts, "booby monster" babies who have a strong need to suck like their binky using friends, etc.

[anoncalhan]

:grouphug: Awe, I am sorry for your struggles. I breastfed both of my boys my oldest until he was 17 months ( he got the boot 2 weeks before my 2nd was born) and my other until 22 months. They both fed on demand, and they ate ALL the time. I found that worked best for us if they wanted it they got it. They sell a tea for nursing mums to help with milk supply. Good luck!

[Recovering Sociopath]

I do think the biggest factor in breastfeeding success is external support, though, especially if things are less than textbook simple.

 

THIS. We moms so often fall into the trap of thinking that this is some kind of test of motherhood and we should be able to make it work on our own. I know I did with my first. But that's just not the way it works. Breastfeeding is a communal act, and needs communal support.

 

Everyone here has given great advice. I *really* wish I had started going to LLL before my first was born; it would have saved me a nightmarish first couple of weeks.

 

I'd also like to echo what several folks have said about making sure your lactation consultant is an IBCLC. I have heard the worst, most pernicious misinformation about nursing come from the mouths of hospital maternity nurses (fortunately that was with my third, and I knew better).

 

Another great website for reference is drjen4kids.com. She explains a lot of the biology behind nursing in accessible terms.

 

Finally, I've heard so many stories from poor mamas who had such hard times with their first attempts at nursing that they didn't even want to try with the next kid. You are amazing for giving this a go one more time.

[godsaggie]

I didn't have a chance to read through all the replies...but I also had those same kinds of issues with my oldest dd. And I just wasn't well educated and tried to schedule feed her. Well that didn't last very long because my supply plummeted.

I had my 4th baby a year ago and nursed on demand. I don't co-sleep but my baby is in his crib in my room. Someone else did mention the cluster feeding...and I found that to be the case also. It seemed like non-stop nursing for 3 hours. But that only lasted a short time. This has been the best breastfeeding experience. Now he is nursing a lot less as we have introduced food. I think I am going to try and nurse him for another year. Yikes!

[Paige]

It is common and normal for your supply to decline significantly around 2-3 months. It is because most people start out with somewhat of an oversupply and it takes 2-3 months for your body to adjust to what your baby actually needs. At this time, it may seem like you are losing your supply, but usually it will only mean that you're losing your oversupply- which is a good thing. I'd encourage you to nurse through this and not give bottles unless you notice a decline in wet diapers and that your baby appears unsatisfied and frantic at the breast. If your supply is truly inadequate, then you can do things like taking fenugreek, pump to increase (pump 10min after baby nurses), and other things you've been told, but still try to hold off on the bottles. I'd skip the nursing shields too unless you have inverted nipples.