Jacob's VS Foerster's for Algebra I?

[sabrina]

Any ideas? I am fixing to start one or the other with my ds (age 12). He gets concepts quite well. Makes a lot of what I call "careless" math errors. Doesn't particularly like to think but is capable of doing it. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[CoffeeBean]

Its been a little while since I looked and I used Dolciana Structure and Method (with a 10 & 12 year old) then Jacob's geometry but I'll tell you what I remember.

 

Jacob's is very wordy. Takes a lot of time getting to the point does a lot of explanation. He has some jokes and puns int there. He has SAT-like problems at the end of chapters which I think is inportant (not for math but future success). Its tone appeals to my not very hard working but plenty smart kid.

 

Foersters is more serious and terse. Newer versions depend on graphing calcultors which I didn't want to depend on. It has more traditional algebra with a list of axioms and derivations.

 

Dolciani is like foresters but without the graphing calculator part. I never did find an old foresters to look at.

 

I think any of them will give you great algebra skills and picking one you son likes may be the key.

 

Coffee Bean

[MyThreeSons]

I LOVE Jacobs Algebra I!! I am currently using it with a student who didn't do very well in Algebra at home, but needs to take Algebra II this next school year. Things are starting to click for her -- it's great to see her eyes light up when she "gets it"!

 

I used it with my oldest son and a couple of his friends, all of whom disliked math going in. They did fine, even enjoyed it at times.

 

My middle son just used it for his class at co-op. I thought he had a few gaps going in, but he did great.

 

I haven't used anything else for Algebra, and don't plan to.

[langfam]

We don't love Jacob's.... it is very wordy and somewhat distracting for my dc. I'm not saying that Jacob's is bad, not at all, we just don't care for the style. I wish we had used Foerster's which is more straight forward in it's presentation. Foerster's also has a lot more word problems in it. I did like that Jacob's had review in Set I. So I guess it depends on what your child works best with.

[Tamarind]

Last year I used Jacobs Algebra with my two 7th grade daughters, who were aged 11 and 13 when they began the text. They completed half the text, and we considered it a pre-algebra course. If you complete the entire text, it is definitely an Algebra 1 course, but the first half contains a lot of pre-algebra concepts, in my opinion. This coming year, my daughters, now ages 12 and 14, plan to work through the entire Foerster Algebra 1 text.

 

Jacobs Pros:

1) good explanations of concepts, although sometimes on the wordy side

2) attractive cartoons, references to Alice in Wonderland

3) lots of review

4) good course for kids who are almost ready for algebra 1 but need some review

 

Jacobs Cons

1) There is no solution manual.

2) The layout of the text, while less busy than many texts, is "busier" than Foerster.

3) The introductory text to each lesson has a nice verbal introduction to the material, but generally only works out 2 sample problems. In contrast, Foerster usually gives 4 or 5 examples in each lessons, step by step, before assigning work.

 

Forester Pros:

1) More concise than Jacobs.

2) Solution manual available

3) Teacher's edition available with guidelines for scheduling lessons and notations of concepts that are tricky

4) Odds and evens are written in different columns, so you can assign one "column". It is easier for the student to complete the work without losing track of where he is in the assignment.

5) The pace is quicker which is probably better for students who are absolutely ready for Algebra 1.

 

Foerster Cons:

1) No cartoons or literary references

 

Overall, I'd say Jacobs (which I've used) is very good, but Foerster (which I will use next year) is probably a little bit better! Now, after I've used Foerster for a year, I may come up with more "cons," but I've previewed the text and I'm very excited about it. However, Jacobs' approach has a bit more "levity" in it than Foerster, which may appeal to some younger students. Also, for students who think they don't like math, Jacobs uses more hooks to draw them into math. I am one of those humanities types who needed a teacher like Jacobs to draw me into the world of math, but now that I'm hooked, I think Foerster looks more streamlined and "single-minded".

[Moira in MA]

I used Jacob's with both my dds. After seeing using Foerster's Algebra II and Trigonometry with my eldest and really liking it, I decided to take a look at his Algebra I for my younger daughter -- who sounds a lot like your son, understands but makes careless errors and was 12 at the time. I decided that I really liked the wordiness and fun of Jacob's for Algebra I and that Foerster's was just too 'let's get down to business' for my 12 year old.

 

Another factor in my choice was that we use Jacob's Geometry which includes algebra review and I wanted the terminology to be consistent.

 

By the way, in our house we take 2 years, 7th & 8th grades, for algebra I. It just seems to take that long for the concepts to really gel. Then it's geometry in 9th, Foerster's Algebra II (skipping the trig) in 10th and next year, for 11th, my eldest will use Foerster's Precalculus with Trigonometry.

 

Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

[BeckyFL]

that I had used Jacob's. I used Jacob's Geometry for my oldest son. When it was time for my younger student to do Algebra, I ended up using Forrester. He really did not enjoy it and I wish that I had opted for the approach that was a little more fun. I think every student is different. Both texts are good in content. Try to consider the personality of your student in making your decision. HTH.

[Laura K (NC)]

Except that I think Foerster would be better for non-mathy kids because its explanations are better.

 

My oldest was using Jacobs, which I chose in part because of it's friendly style. He kept getting frustrated with the lack of examples and clear explanations. He did so much better with Foerster.

 

Now I have another son coming up and I wasn't sure what I'd do with math for him because he is not mathy at all. I was considering Teaching Textbooks, but I really think, after having used Foerster's older version, that it will be the best option. He might not get as far in the book as my oldest did, but I'm not sure, really. I have a lot of confidence in that book's ability to make complex math fairly straightforward, and that's about all I can really ask from a book.

[Tiramisu]

My dd12 drove me crazy with her careless mistakes. I didn't know how she'd do with algebra. I checked out several books including Jacob's and Foerster's. I found Jacob's to be wordy and distracting as others have noted. I feel fairly confident with algebra but it confused me. Foerster's, in comparison, has clear and straightforward explanations in a visually clear format. Even dd picked up on the difference immediately and prefered Foerster's.

 

Now, we've only done two chapters, but I have to say since she started Foerster's her careless mistakes have decreased substantially compared to her prior work. It also probably helped that I stressed the importance of neatness in doing algebra, but, at the same time, I think the neatness of Foerster's layout may have influenced her as well.

[LisaNY]

My dd12 drove me crazy with her careless mistakes. I didn't know how she'd do with algebra. I checked out several books including Jacob's and Foerster's. I found Jacob's to be wordy and distracting as others have noted. I feel fairly confident with algebra but it confused me. Foerster's, in comparison, has clear and straightforward explanations in a visually clear format. Even dd picked up on the difference immediately and prefered Foerster's.

 

Now, we've only done two chapters, but I have to say since she started Foerster's her careless mistakes have decreased substantially compared to her prior work. It also probably helped that I stressed the importance of neatness in doing algebra, but, at the same time, I think the neatness of Foerster's layout may have influenced her as well.

 

I agree w/Kelli. My dd and I had the same reaction to Jacob's as Kelli did. Foerster's is much clearer and step-by-step in its approach. We only used it for a few weeks, because I found that we needed to focus more intently on pre-Algebra.

[AngieW in Texas]

Have you looked at Kinetic Books?

 

I used Jacobs Algebra with my oldest and loved it.

 

When my middle dd was ready to start algebra in August, she thought it looked very intimidating. I happened to see a post that very same day about a free download offer from Kinetic Books for their new Algebra I program. I got the download and have been using it since then. My free download expired two days ago and I just bought a subscription so my dd could finish the program.

 

My dd was almost 12yo when she started Kinetic Books, so she's on the young side for algebra, but not exceedingly young (I've seen posts on this board about 10yo kids successfully completing algebra). She ended up deciding to use both Kinetic Books and Jacobs.

 

Now that she has had the chance to have each of the programs be the first to cover various topics, she says that she prefers the way that Kinetic Books teaches. Most of the problems in Kinetic Books have instant feedback and most of the problems will step you through to the answer rather than just giving you the answer outright. Because of this, she does lots of problems where she has immediate feedback before she ever does the pencil and paper problems. She doesn't do a whole page of problems wrong, because she's already had a lot of practice doing problems of the same type and had each problem checked immediately.

 

Each unit in Kinetic Books (several units in each chapter) has paper-and-pencil problems at the end. The number of problems here can vary from a low of 20 to nearly 200. The answer key only has the answers for the odd-numbered problems at the end of each unit, so I have my dd do only the odd-numbered problems, but that is plenty of problems.

 

So far I've only run across 4 errors in the text and I know that they have fixed three of them in the current version. I just ran across the 4th error today. I also found one problem which had unclear wording and I emailed them about that one as well (that was also today). I know there were more errors in the Jacobs teacher guide than that. Fortunately, I had a used copy, so the previous owner had already made the corrections for me.

 

Kinetic Books goes into a lot more depth. For instance, Jacobs covers variables in inequalities, but Kinetic Books takes that to another level so that you are solving systems of inequalities in two variables and even optimizing your solutions.

 

I still like Jacobs and my dd still does Jacobs, but she prefers to cover all topics in Kinetic Books first and then do Jacobs. She was doing one chapter in Kinetic Books and then one chapter in Jacobs, just working through both books in order from start to finish. She had so much trouble with the exponents chapter in Jacobs (ch 8 in Jacobs, but ch 9 in Kinetic Books), that she asked to do the KB chapter on the same topic first and then the Jacobs chapter. She's about halfway done with the chapter in KB and is doing much better with it because KB has much more detailed explanations (and has audio explanations that you can click on as well).

 

She doesn't want to switch entirely over to KB, because she gets tired of doing everything on the computer and finds it a relief to switch back to a textbook after a while. She definitely wants to make sure that she covers all topics in KB before she gets to them in Jacobs though.

[DavidSChandler]

[Re: Jacobs vs. Foerster] I am fixing to start one or the other with my ds (age 12).

...Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

Hi, I'm the author of the Math Without Borders videos (http://www.mathwithoutborders.com). I actually like Jacobs, but I chose Foerster (Alg I and Alg II/Trig) as the basis for my videos because he has such a strong approach to word problems. He brings an engineering background to his teaching and has the best collection of application problems you will find anywhere. The perenial question, "When will we ever need this?" should never come up.

 

--David Chandler

[Sharon in MD]

I think that they dovetail together extremely well. I sat down and literally compared Jacobs Algebra to Foerster's Al I at the time that I was making the decision. I think they are very similar. I'd agree that Foerster is more down to business and terse, but even the examples are similar....

 

I remember reading once on Vertitas' website that Jacobs actually recommends Foerster as a follow on to his material....they certainly fit well together.

 

It just seemed to me that Jacobs was a more kid friendly intro to Algebra and my ds loved the cartoons and puns. The geometry course is really good and incorporates Al I review so that it stays fresh. By the time we had finished Jacobs AL I and Geometry, ds was more than ready to tackle Foerster. We moved on from Jacobs to Foerster's Al II/trig course (just the AL II portion) and then on to Foerster's Precalculus with trig course (both parts). Now next year we are moving to Chalkdust for Calculus because we need the support. We need someone to answer the questions when they come up....I found myself struggling to keep up with the pre-calc stuff last year. I can do it, but not nearly fast enough to keep pace with ds....so we need to switch to a curricula that has tutorial support.

[barybar]

:001_smile:Just a thought...having gone through College Algebra and intently studying the formats of Foerster, Teaching Textbooks and Pearson Prentice Hall. I am leaning toward Foerster with the use of Teaching Textbooks Algebra1 DVDs for our curriculum this freshmen year of HS. The reason that I feel I need the DVDs is the explanation or reason for the expressions may be needed if I get distracted with work...and unable to help my freshman. And, I do have access to Mr. Chandler's DVD as well. The reason for getting as many resources as possible is to find the format that may work the best for her considering that math is so important to the more complex mathematics as well as college and work in my daughter's future. It has taken a lot of work and reading reviews of all the math available. If necessary, we may need to review Prealgebra basic mathematics prior to the work in the curriculum as needed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We like Jacobs here. And I'm not sure why someone said that there is no solutions manual. I have one. The solutions to set 2 are in the back of the text and all the other solutions are in the teacher's guide/solutions manual.

[AngieW in Texas]

There is a solution manual on Dr. Callahan's site.

http://www.askdrcallahan.com/products/Solutions-Manual-for-Elementary-Algebra-by-Jacobs.html

[MathNut]

I've used Jacob's, Foersters, and Art of Problem Solving.

 

I refer to Jacob's as Algebra "lite" - it's great for a younger student who is ready for Algebra.

 

Harold Jacobs recommends following up with Foersters for Alg II and Trig.

 

AoPS is a really meaty math program. Covers a lot, not a lot of repetitive problems but problems that require you to reallly understand concepts and a lot of variety in the problems.

 

HTH:)

[barybar]

Hi,

 

We started using Foerster's Algebra 1 Classics by Prentice Hall that we ordered through Oasis-Prentice Hall (T. E. with lab and tests).

 

I love the simplicity and straightforwardness of the textbook.

Char