mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 If you don't use a formal grammar program and just approach grammar as you teach writing, etc, can you tell me how? Or is there a book that would help guide me? Not sure I'm asking this right. :confused: For example, we are using IEW SWI-A. I edit dd's paper and hand it back to her to write her final draft. I can edit well (actually edit documents for a living) but I can't explain to her the *why* of things. *Why* does it need a comma there, etc. I need something that will help me understand how to explain things to her, using the correct terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmamato3 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 i have some potential ideas but am uncertain as to whether they are right :tongue_smilie: so i'll chime in after i :big ear: for a bit of time. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 i have some potential ideas but am uncertain as to whether they are right :tongue_smilie: so i'll chime in after i :big ear: for a bit of time. :grouphug: I'd love to hear what you have to say. It's a new idea to me, so I haven't really thought it through completely. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I want Easy Writing for this. Spalding has students write sentences with spelling words and covers a lot of grammar during sentence composition. I like the idea of teaching punctuation patterns, but don't really have the resources to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 I want Easy Writing for this. Spalding has students write sentences with spelling words and covers a lot of grammar during sentence composition. I like the idea of teaching punctuation patterns, but don't really have the resources to do it. Oh my gosh, I love that punctuation pattern sheet! That would be great to hang on the wall just as a reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes, thank you for the punctuation patterns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 If you don't use a formal grammar program and just approach grammar as you teach writing, etc, can you tell me how? Or is there a book that would help guide me? Not sure I'm asking this right. :confused: For example, we are using IEW SWI-A. I edit dd's paper and hand it back to her to write her final draft. I can edit well (actually edit documents for a living) but I can't explain to her the *why* of things. *Why* does it need a comma there, etc. I need something that will help me understand how to explain things to her, using the correct terminology. Well, we learn the correct terminology through a separate grammar program and then, as knowledge grows, begin to apply that knowledge to writing. For example, first we covered compound sentences in our grammar program (how to recognize them, how to diagram them, how to punctuate them). Once that was a pretty solid concept, I would start to add discussion of it to our editing sessions. "What kind of a sentence is this? How do you know? Shall we diagram it? Okay, then what rule do we know about punctuation in a compound sentence?" And so with each concept. It means that I don't address every issue in every revision but generally only concepts he has learned. I sometimes mention a few other things, explaining, "You haven't learned this yet, but here's a rule about . . . ." I'm sure you could do the same thing without using a separate grammar program. I find my son does best learning a skill in isolation before being expected to apply it in his writing, but YMMV. But if you yourself don't know why the comma goes where it does, then I'm not sure how you would do it. Perhaps a grammar reference book would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Thank you for starting this thread. I will be reading it carefully. This book made a huge impact on me: Everyday Editing by Jeff Anderson. Another piece of the puzzle are Killgallon's books, even if they are only used as inspiration. Edited June 3, 2012 by lisabees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Perhaps a grammar reference book would help? Maybe that's what I'm looking for. :D I want to learn grammar so I can teach it to her alongside her writing. She doesn't do well with learning things separately and then trying to put them together later. If she learns grammar in isolation, as a separate "subject" from writing, it is going to stay separated in her mind and she will have trouble applying it to her writing. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 This book made a huge impact on me: Everyday Editing by Jeff Anderson. Ooh, thank you for that link! Do you have an opinion on whether I should get the kindle or print edition? (Some books that I do a lot of flipping back and forth in I prefer as print---Is this one of those books?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ooh, thank you for that link! Do you have an opinion on whether I should get the kindle or print edition? (Some books that I do a lot of flipping back and forth in I prefer as print---Is this one of those books?) Excellent question! I got the kindle version and do NOT recommend it. You'll want to flip and highlight and circle! ;) It's a fabulous book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Excellent question! I got the kindle version and do NOT recommend it. You'll want to flip and highlight and circle! ;) It's a fabulous book. Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'm too obsessed with syntax, to use a book with such a wider focus right now, but some of you might love Writing Tools. I used this years ago when it was first published, along with Ben Franklin's method of learning to write. He would read an essay, make little notes about it, put it aside for a few days, and then attempt to reproduce it in his own words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes, thank you for the punctuation patterns! :iagree: Thanks, hunter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I love the punctuation patterns idea, but I just feel like all the resources I have seen for it, are just not complete enough. I want to run with the idea. I have a copy of The New Well Tempered Sentence, that might be a good punctuation pattern curriculum, but my copy is such a mess, I can barely make sense of it. I have major memory problems from my seizures and don't always remember the history of a book. This one is all ripped up, so I'm thinking I had this one while homeless and was carrying around single chapters to read, and stashing the rest elsewhere. I really don't know and am only guessing. Beware that page 62 (at least in my copy) is officially pornographic I think, and maybe something even worse. It um..it includes an animal doing something to a scantily clad women.:ohmy: The book isn't formatted for efficiency. I might get another copy and color code it, or something. But right now, I just have a pile of wrinkled pages, with what I think is a badger doing something unmentionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeturn Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Not sure how old your child is, but I used to love Write Source 2000 for grammar and writing reference for middle schoolers. It was well-laid out and readable for the student. There is a version for high school as well. Not a reference, but a fun read would be Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for Kids series. There is an adult version as well -- loved it. Something else you might do is to take sentences she has written out of context and then tell her how many errors are in the sentence. Then let her see if she can find the errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Not sure how old your child is, but I used to love Write Source 2000 for grammar and writing reference for middle schoolers. It was well-laid out and readable for the student. There is a version for high school as well. Not a reference, but a fun read would be Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for Kids series. There is an adult version as well -- loved it. Something else you might do is to take sentences she has written out of context and then tell her how many errors are in the sentence. Then let her see if she can find the errors. Oh, these look good too. Now I think I'm getting too much stuff in my Amazon cart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TippyCanoe Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I second Jeff Anderson's Everyday Editing. He also has this book about doing grammar etc. in the context of writing drafts: www.amazon.com/Mechanically-Inclined-Building-Grammar-Workshop/dp/1571104127/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338757508&sr=8-1 Swoon. Totally forgot about this. Guess what I'll be reading next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 I second Jeff Anderson's Everyday Editing. He also has this book about doing grammar etc. in the context of writing drafts: http://www.amazon.com/Mechanically-Inclined-Building-Grammar-Workshop/dp/1571104127/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338757508&sr=8-1 Now, that one I might have to get on the kindle simply because it is so much cheaper. Thanks everyone for the great resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Not sure how old your child is, but I used to love Write Source 2000 for grammar and writing reference for middle schoolers. It was well-laid out and readable for the student. There is a version for high school as well. Not a reference, but a fun read would be Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for Kids series. There is an adult version as well -- loved it. Something else you might do is to take sentences she has written out of context and then tell her how many errors are in the sentence. Then let her see if she can find the errors. I have never understood the fascination with Write Source. EVERY time I have EVER looked anything up in it, the information wasn't full enough, and I had to look elsewhere. It always had information on the topic I was looking for, but the quality of that information was lacking. Maybe it's just me. I have HUGE expectations, I think. I HATE that book with a passion, but keep it, because I can't trust myself that it is a piece of trash if everyone else like it. :-0 Did I say I hate it? I hate it! Each time I open it, I'm freshly disappointed. Edited June 4, 2012 by Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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