Distance Learning and Alternatives to Traditional College

[Second Time Around]

I briefly looked at distance learning and alternatives to the traditional brick and mortar college route quite a few years ago, and thought I'd wait to see if it would gain more currency after a few years had passed, new economic realities hit home, and a reliance upon the internet had thoroughly taken hold in everyone's daily lives. I'm just wondering if any of you have tried distance learning at the college level and/or any alternative approaches to gaining a college degree? If so, what have the results been for you and your children?

 

I have to say, dipping my big toe back into the college search waters leaves me a bit depressed. I was just this minute talking to a non-homeschooling friend of mine whose youngest is a rising senior, and swapping notes with her about how our generation of parents have created new precedents for our children that weren't there when we were launching ourselves into the adult world (not limited to academics). I can't help wondering if there is a way to get off this particular crazy train - the money, the hoops, the cut-throat competition - but still help my kids to arrive at a fulfilling, independent and well-educated destination? I'd love to hear any examples of how that has been/might be done!

 

Thanks!

[Jane in NC]

Unfortunately distance learning is not necessarily less expensive. In fact, a number of for-profit colleges seem to be leading the way on this front. No cost savings there!

 

This is not to say that distance learning does not have its place. A number of programs were initially geared to non-traditional students (aka adults) in the workplace. But I simply am suspicious of distance learning for certain subjects like chemistry or calculus. I tutored a student in the latter. The distance format did not provide sufficient interaction between prof and students for him to understand the material.

 

Perhaps you should consider LACs. There are a number of well endowed schools that offer good merit/financial aid while providing alternative educational opportunities.

 

Could you explain this:

 

I was just this minute talking to a non-homeschooling friend of mine whose youngest is a rising senior, and swapping notes with her about how our generation of parents have created new precedents for our children that weren't there when we were launching ourselves into the adult world (not limited to academics).

[Denise in Florida]

I would approach distance learning with caution. There are some good programs but there are plenty that are just money wasters.

 

It also depends on the discipline skills and personality of the student. One of my dds can handle online courses, one can't.

 

The other factor to consider is the reaction of the prospective employers, some don't care but some do not really consider distance learning to be a legitimate degree. Your mileage may vary.

 

As a positive, I had a niece who graduated from a brick and mortar design school. After a few temporary and part time jobs, she decided she needed to back up the design AA with some business classes. She completed a business degree with University of Phoenix and found a full time design job that she really loves.

[regentrude]

I know people who have basically done college from home: self study, then CLEP, then finishing up the last credits through a college affiliated with CollegePlus. This is certainly the cheapest method to get *a* degree.

At the same time, it severely limits what kind of degree is possible, is very hard to do for complex subjects, and the student completely misses out on the academic part of the college experience (I am talking about live discourse with scholars and experts, NOT about dorms and socializing)

 

The quality of online instruction varies tremendously. I am not convinced that enrolling in online courses will be cheaper either.

 

As another cost saving option: many colleges have the option for a student to receive credit by examination (not CLEP, but an exam designed by the faculty at the school that tests precisely what they would award credit for).

Caveat: In my 10 years of teaching several thousand students, I have had one single student take this options; apparently self-studying physics without a class is beyond the capabilities of most students.

[regentrude]

I was just this minute talking to a non-homeschooling friend of mine whose youngest is a rising senior, and swapping notes with her about how our generation of parents have created new precedents for our children that weren't there when we were launching ourselves into the adult world (not limited to academics).

 

 

Oh yes, please do explain what you mean by this.

[Second Time Around]

Thanks to all. I suppose I expected these types of responses, which make a lot of sense, but just wondered if some group had found a way to successfully navigate these problems. But I guess it is what it is.

 

Don't worry about my final statement. My friend and I are both ballet moms, so we have seen how diminishing opportunities there have caused many to go after "bigger, faster, sooner" so to speak (even though that approach doesn't always pay off). Since we also both have kids looking over colleges right now, we have also noted how our generation of parents (probably for various reasons) have also sought out more opportunities, more experiences, more whatever for our kids than was generally the case when we were both young. How many here have parents who are bemused that we are doing/have done so much for our kids in a way that they never felt compelled to do? I'm definitely 'guilty' as charged, and so are many of my friends. It's just a different world, I suppose, but I do think it has raised the barre in many areas - not just ballet, not just academics, not just college and job applications.

[Jane in NC]

How many here have parents who are bemused that we are doing/have done so much for our kids in a way that they never felt compelled to do? I'm definitely 'guilty' as charged, and so are many of my friends. It's just a different world, I suppose, but I do think it has raised the barre in many areas - not just ballet, not just academics, not just college and job applications.

 

Tis true that the current college generation grew up with parents shuttling them to organized sports teams and orchestrated play dates. Today's college students often have parents who wish to continue participation in their kids' lives, hence the problem of helicopter parents.

 

Which is precisely why I think it is so good for our students to leave home to attend college, participate in a gap year, try their hands at an apprenticeship. Sure, some kids might want to remain at home (or might be needed there to help with a family situation). But the non-classroom part of the college experience that Regentrude mentioned is broadening to a young adult. My son's first year roommate was from Vietnam. Now, like many students at my son's LAC, he chooses to live in themed housing. Students who share the same community service interest can reside together. Or students who study or are proficient in foreign languages can share suites in a dorm. Etc.

 

An online college experience does not help our fledglings test their wings!

 

College can be competitive but there are such a variety of schools that one should be able to find one that is a good fit.

[creekland]

In the circle I hang out with, online degrees are respected for adults who have been working and just need courses and/or a degree to continue in their field. They are never supported for a new hire fresh after high school and are considered worthless in that aspect. (I'm not referring to an online class or two, but an online-only degree.)

[Second Time Around]

Which is precisely why I think it is so good for our students to leave home to attend college, participate in a gap year, try their hands at an apprenticeship. Sure, some kids might want to remain at home (or might be needed there to help with a family situation). But the non-classroom part of the college experience that Regentrude mentioned is broadening to a young adult.

 

An online college experience does not help our fledglings test their wings!

 

Agreed that online college won't accomplish that. But I'm not entirely convinced that college is the best wing-tester for every kid. My eldest really hasn't approached his college life like that. I think he is currently learning far more from his internship experience this summer. If I could turn the clock back, I think I would seek out more of the apprenticeship/gap year/volunteer opps. for all my kids. I think for some kids, that helps to contextualize the college experience far more.

 

I suppose one of the reasons for me looking into this is I've found so many semi-fits for my middle child that I wonder if we couldn't custom build higher education for him in exactly the same way we custom built high school etc. I'd like to be able to slot the academic experience in when and where needed for him. But, I'm also fully aware that not a small part of the college experience is future marketability, and that the online courses might not hit the mark in that department.

 

I do think that a combination approach will one day begin to gain some kind of currency, but I realize that this might be a long time in coming, and many details would need to be addressed before it was entirely satisfactory for all involved.

 

Did anyone read that (auto?)biography of an early homeschool girl and her family who received a distance degree at a young age? If I recall it was something like "No Regrets"? It was one of the popular books when I first began this journey many years ago (well before WTM came out). I was always curious to follow that story up to see if she still had 'no regrets'!

[Denise in Florida]

In the circle I hang out with, online degrees are respected for adults who have been working and just need courses and/or a degree to continue in their field. They are never supported for a new hire fresh after high school and are considered worthless in that aspect. (I'm not referring to an online class or two, but an online-only degree.)

 

:iagree: The example I gave of my niece, she had earned an AA from a respected design school and just needed to add some business classes to round out her resume. On-line worked well for her.

[Yolanda in Mass]

Did anyone read that (auto?)biography of an early homeschool girl and her family who received a distance degree at a young age? If I recall it was something like "No Regrets"? It was one of the popular books when I first began this journey many years ago (well before WTM came out). I was always curious to follow that story up to see if she still had 'no regrets'!

 

Hm, yes, Alexandra Swann I believe. Don't remember if that's the mom or daughter. I remember that the claims were that she had finished her BA at 14 or 15 and her master's before 18. That was a while ago. I, too would be interested. I'm off to Google!

[Excelsior! Academy]

Hm, yes, Alexandra Swann I believe. Don't remember if that's the mom or daughter. I remember that the claims were that she had finished her BA at 14 or 15 and her master's before 18. That was a while ago. I, too would be interested. I'm off to Google!

 

Here is a link I found from a couple of years ago.

http://taxesforwriters.com/?p=861

 

This looks like her blog.

http://protectionmoney.blogspot.com/2012/05/killing-house-fly-with-sledgehammer.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Payingforprotection+%28PayingforProtection%29

Edited June 3, 2012 by Excelsior! Academy

[Yolanda in Mass]

Here is a link I found from a couple of years ago.

http://taxesforwriters.com/?p=861

 

This looks like her blog.

http://protectionmoney.blogspot.com/2012/05/killing-house-fly-with-sledgehammer.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Payingforprotection+%28PayingforProtection%29

 

Thank you! Her blog entry is about an ice cream stand 20 minutes from my house which my family and I have visited often. What were the chances of that?!

[Gwen in VA]

If you are on facebook, you might consider checking out the UnCollege group. It has some interesting articles related to alternatives to college for can-do young people.

[Michelle in AL]

I'm currently getting my nurse practitioner degree online through our state school. Having been through college in person too, I can tell you that I definitely prefer Live classes. Nothing can replce the interaction with instructors and classmates. IMO, the online classes are harder and have fewer modes of learning. There are no lectures for my classes, just power point slides, which do not substitute for verbal instruction. There is no student support or study groups which can be so valuable.

 

Online classes do fit my schedule though.

 

I can also compare my online experience to my daughter's experience of entering college. We've been to her state school several times. Each time we visit her advisor for her major (met her when we requested to meet with a faculty member in her major). Each time we've been you can just feel how much everyone cares. I will never forget what one teacher said at her honors orientation: This will perhaps be the only time in your student's life that they are surrounded by so many adults that are there for the sole purpose of seeing your shild succeed. I know that's too altruistic to be true, but even if partially true, that is a blessing!

 

We're paying for this through scholarships, childhood college savings and my earnings from work that we didn't have before.

[Bloggermom]

We are going the distance/alternative route for sure. My kids are doing American School of Correspondence for a High School diploma. We are then using Thomas Edison State College because they allow ACE Credits, FEMA Credits and more. We can do an entire Bachelors degree for less than $10k.

[Second Time Around]

If you are on facebook, you might consider checking out the UnCollege group. It has some interesting articles related to alternatives to college for can-do young people.

 

Thanks, Gwen. I've been dipping into the FB page now and again. Not sure, but superficially it seems that those who do best with the non-traditional routes (including the No Regrets author) are those prepared to continue their non-traditional approach throughout life. These tend to be those who have a more entrepreneurial bent to them. Not everyone has that or wants to have that. Or at least, not when they are starting out. I'm finding out myself the value of training for a career via traditional means as opposed to jumping into the deep end and hoping to make it. I'm not very good at the latter! I find I need to intern under a more traditional approach until I'm sufficiently confident to fly solo. Some people can fly solo almost from the beginning. I think my DS2 also needs a more traditional route to begin with.

 

On the flip side, I do hope that at some point some alternatives can eventually become mainstream for many individuals. I do hope that enough of us can get off the crazy train for just long enough to reevaluate - just as many of us did when we decided to home school our children. As it stands the current system in today's reality has too many undeniable flaws for us never to challenge it, yet I do feel that the typical person is held hostage to that system if they wish to flourish in American society. Okay, off my soap box for today!

[barybar]

I know people who have basically done college from home: self study, then CLEP, then finishing up the last credits through a college affiliated with CollegePlus. This is certainly the cheapest method to get *a* degree.

At the same time, it severely limits what kind of degree is possible, is very hard to do for complex subjects, and the student completely misses out on the academic part of the college experience (I am talking about live discourse with scholars and experts, NOT about dorms and socializing)

 

The quality of online instruction varies tremendously. I am not convinced that enrolling in online courses will be cheaper either.

 

As another cost saving option: many colleges have the option for a student to receive credit by examination (not CLEP, but an exam designed by the faculty at the school that tests precisely what they would award credit for).

Caveat: In my 10 years of teaching several thousand students, I have had one single student take this options; apparently self-studying physics without a class is beyond the capabilities of most students.

Enjoying this thread immensely...please continue it.... I have a college degree, did take a few distance learning classes, enjoyed the classroom interaction a lot. But, as far as cost-effective, I am not certain. Please enlighten me...thank you!

[Catherine]

My friend's husband did a PhD through an online university, and though it sounds like his work was rigorous, he has been completely shut out of the college-level job market. He couldn't even get a secure adjunct position at a community college.

 

It's not too surprising, if you think about it. Non-for-profit educational institutions are in direct competition with for-profits, so it's unlikely they would accord for-profit grads the status of teaching at their schools. If the student is pursuing other fields, the situation may be very different.

[Kareni]

My friend's husband did a PhD through an online university, and though it sounds like his work was rigorous, he has been completely shut out of the college-level job market. He couldn't even get a secure adjunct position at a community college.

 

 

This may indeed be due to the fact that his degree was obtained online; however, it may also be due to the fact that competition for positions at the community college is fierce. I recall applying for one such position (20 plus years ago) and being told that 97 others had also applied.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[klmama]

This may indeed be due to the fact that his degree was obtained online; however, it may also be due to the fact that competition for positions at the community college is fierce. I recall applying for one such position (20 plus years ago) and being told that 97 others had also applied.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Yes, what was his field and how many others applied? A friend's dh graduated with a PhD from a top university about 20 years ago, and he felt very fortunate to get a teaching job. It was one of three teaching openings anywhere in the country that year in his field, and hundreds applied for each one.

[Bostonian]

 

As another cost saving option: many colleges have the option for a student to receive credit by examination (not CLEP, but an exam designed by the faculty at the school that tests precisely what they would award credit for).

Caveat: In my 10 years of teaching several thousand students, I have had one single student take this options; apparently self-studying physics without a class is beyond the capabilities of most students.

 

You are probably right about most students, but a 1995 (1999?) study

 

http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/computer.pdf

Raymond Ravaglia, J. Acacio de Barros, and Patrick Suppes. Computer-based advanced placement physics for gifted students. Computers in Physics, 9, pp. 380-386, 1995.

 

found that most gifted students who got a 4 or 5 on AP Calculus AB or BC could get a passing score on AP Physics C (Mechanics) after taking an online EPGY course.

[Catherine]

Philosophy. Yes, it's competitive. But to apply at literally hundreds of places, nationwide, and not even get an interview, for more than a decade?? I just assumed that his degree is not helping him much at all.

[creekland]

Philosophy. Yes, it's competitive. But to apply at literally hundreds of places, nationwide, and not even get an interview, for more than a decade?? I just assumed that his degree is not helping him much at all.

 

You are probably correct. When there are oodles of applicants, the smallest detail can knock someone out of an interview. I can see where a B&M degree would be preferred to an online version for a professor (recent experience in the classroom himself, etc). This is also a case where the particular school the degree was from could matter too with the more prestigious being better.

 

The only time I've seen online degrees not matter is when the adult already has a job and only needs "a" degree to advance (usually in their company).

 

In a different economy it might be different, but right now, most jobs are fiercely competitive.