Discipline question: How do you get through to your ds with special needs?

[Jennefer@SSA]

I do not want to spank but have found myself increasingly doing that as other things just are not working. He (ds7: ADHD, SID, spectrum disorder tendencies) *knows* what is expected of him and can tell you exactly what he *should* do but when it comes down to it, he doesn't do it. Am I expecting too much?

 

I am very discouraged as I feel that I have no room for error here. I feel that I do well 95% of the time but that last 5% he has picked up on and he acts that way 95% of the time himself (I will get so frustrated I yell and use an ugly voice. Not proud of that just want to be truthful.) He is the oldest and is leading his brothers in a very bad way. My 2yo is constantly enraged by ds7 who takes things from him, pushes him and even hits him at times. Now when I sit to calmly talk to ds7 he is contrite and tells me exactly what he should have done but that he was just so *angry*. What do I do? I have read 20 different parenting books and I am still lost.

 

Thanks as always. It is sometimes good just to vent it all out.

[Jennefer@SSA]

None of the parenting books apply for these situations. My personality needs a manual. If someone will just tell me do X, Y and Z then you will get the results you want, I would do whatever it took to do that. I know that even with typical kids it's not that easy but I can wish right?:001_smile:

 

Thanks for letting me know I am not alone. There is comfort in that for sure!

[Laurie4b]

How under control is the SID? We saw a huge difference when ds got the sensory stuff taken care of. He could then modulate his emotions pretty normally; without that, however, he was difficult.

 

 

Here are some things to think through. You may already be dealing with all of them.

 

1st. Put on your own oxygen mask first. You'll be less tempted to yell if your "cup is full." (Most parents with neurotypical kids yell. Parents with kids with special needs have a much higher chronic level of frustration (like our kids) and more provocation. You're not the only one who yells. ) Make sure that you get enough sleep, good nutrition, exercise, enough time away from dc care to "recharge."

 

2. Prevention: Is ds getting enough heavy work? Is his OT working with him on modulating his arousal? Our OT was great with this. He needs to be able to id body signals that he's starting to get angry before he's already there. Does he know how to relax? Do you have a calming corner, or a place he can go outside? (Mine always liked to swing. )

 

3. Keep an ABC chart: A stands for antecedent: what happened before his behavior problem? Include time of day, proximity to meals, as well as a list of what had been happening before he "blew" B-behavior (describe what he did), and 3) C is for consequences. These don't include merely the "official" consequences, but what happened? Did he get the toy he wanted? Did he cause others to be upset? (Sometimes this is actually rewarding for kids). After keeping this chart for few days, look it over for patterns. If you see antecedents that you can change, then you may be able to head off a lot of behavior melt-downs. If you're noticing some consequences that might actually be rewarding him, you can start to alter those. (NOTE: If something is reinforcing a behavior, and you take it away, the behavior will escalate before it goes down. Think of how your behavior gets worse if the soda doesn't come out the machine as you expect it to. YOu start pushing the buttons repeatedly, shaking the machine, etc. If pushing buttons is analagous to the kiddo's unwanted behavior, you can see how this works. So hang on through the shift in consequences).

 

4. Make sure that each of your dc get unconditional mom and dad time.

[Ottakee]

This is hard. All 3 of mine have varying levels and different special needs.

 

I do think you are wise to consider the effect this has on your 2 year old. HE needs to be protected from his older brother. It is hard being the sibling of a special needs child so you are wise to be thinking of this.

 

Agreeing with the one who mentioned monitoring how well his SID stuff is being addressed. I would also add in his ADHD. Medication has made such a huge positive impact here that it might be worth considering if he is not on anything yet. It might cut down on the impulsivity that could lead to him or his younger brother being hurt.

 

Counseling/therapy might help him develop some better skills as well.

 

Just make sure to take care of MOM as well. That is so important but often overlooked.

[Hebrews3:13]

I think it was a son (sorry if it wasn't). How does he eat? Does he gravitate to junk?

 

I find my son has definite food issues that trigger any manner of evil behavior. Anything with red dye is absolutely a trigger and I can set my watch by it. Five minutes after ingestion he will in fact become a raving maniac. Sugar in general is not good.

 

It is something to consider if you begin keeping a journal of his behaviors. Dietary enzymes helped us some on that front. I can recommend some if you want to Pm me.

 

I understand that medication is an option for many and I am not here to pass judgement- I have not walked a mile in anyone else's shoes. However, PLEASE be cautious and careful about beginning medication on a child. Any psychiatric medication has effects that are long lasting and once you start it may always be a necessity.

 

We have done a lot of biomedical treatment for all of our children and some vitamins and such have helped. My biggest help BY FAR has been homeopathy (See "Ritalin free Kids"). Say what you want (I used to think it was a load of hogwash), but my autistic son is a different child since we began. We have seen health improvements throughout the household.

 

This sounds awful, but without these interventions, when my son is at his worst, I cannot bear him. He can make my life extremely miserable. I got to a breaking point as I considered one day how little progress we had made in just trying to "rationally" approach the problem behaviorally and talking to him. I could believe he would end up in jail as he was out of control. We had to do something.

 

We are Christians also, so prayer and praying with him are big players as well. I often leave his room at night in tears as he prays God will help him to listen to Mommy and Daddy and not hurt his brothers and sisters.

 

I pray you will find the right answers for you.

[obiandelismom]

Have you looked into books specifically on anger management? My 5yo "quirky" kid has trouble with rage, and says the same things your ds does after an incident. What has helped a bit is to actually rehearse what to do during a rage. Now he knows he is supposed to go to his "safe room" when he starts to feel anger coming on, and I've noticed that it has increased his self control a lot.

 

Good luck - I know it's hard to feel like you've got a kid that no one knows how to handle!

[dtsmamtj]

For us it was making sure that our son (CAPD and spectrum issues) had enough physical activity - rain or shine - even if it was only 15 minutes 3-4 times a day. I would watch what he eats and see if you have these behaviors are worse after eating certian foods. For us we had to keep it swift, and keep it simple - we kept the punishment to fit the misbehavior. I have spent many years micro-managing our son in order to nip the beginning of issues before they get out of hand and teach him to recognize how to handle various situations. For me personally I was always praying to be able to see our son through God's eyes, always seeking wisdom for how to handle each outburst, attitude, etc. Our son is now 10.5 and a wonderful young man. Another thing was that watching any videos (we don't get cable, etc. so TV was out anyway) ALWAYS brought about elevated behavior issues. I know some will disagree, but watching any videos was very limited if at all. I am only familiar with our son's sensory issues when it came to mainly food, noise, smells, and travel. I kept our son in my site/hearing all the time for many years - if he went outside to play with his siblings or the neighbor's grandson, I went also in order to help him understand "how" to play the game, catch any misunderstandings in communication (huge disability) and to help him in his social skills. Right now he is outside with four of his siblings and the neighbor's grandson and I am in the house. I am now able to monitor him periodically as opposed to micro-managing.

 

T

[Nancy in NH]

My 9 yo ds has reduced me to tears on many days. He is such an exuberant child, yet the down-side of that is his meltdowns and angry behavior. It's been clear that he is "highly sensitive", though we have yet to have him evaluated. He has some health problems (congenital heart defect, migraines) and as a result has been on different meds. The effect of his heart medication is fatigue, and the effects of his migraine meds were so bad (lack of appetite, increased irritability and fatigue, etc) that we recently weaned him off of it. Over the past 5 years, though, it's been hard to gauge just exactly what is going on with him. Some days his crankiness and ill behavior preceeds a migraine. Other days, I know fatigue has set in. And I suspect dairy has an effect on his behavior, too. The dairy issue bothers me, but because his diet is so limited right now and it's really important for his heart condition that he eats and continues to grow (he plummeted on the growth charts while on his migraine meds), I am reluctant to remove it from his diet. Admittedly, we often blamed behavior issues on how lousy he was feeling, though we have tried not to let discipline slide (harder for my dh, though). Now I'm wondering if OT would help him.

 

And yes, I've been guilty of yelling, too. Some days I don't even recognize myself. All my life I was asked how I managed to be so patient, and now I feel like I am not at all. Never mind that I couldn't even listen to others yelling--I was not one to yell. I am also guilty of not taking the best care of myself--often to bed way too late, not enough exercise, sometimes skipping meals, and time to myself? Forget it. I'm grateful for the discussion and the suggestions and reminders. Bless you all for sharing and making me feel less like a lunatic mom!

Nancy

[CactusPair]

Most important is preventing the behavior in the first place, creating an atomsphere that allows your ds to succeed.

 

Has he done OT? How is his daily sensory diet? Are you keeping up with his treatments/sctivities? What about his food diet? Any allergies, food dyes, sugar, etc? Does he get too hungry? Does he get protein in the a.m. and omega fats every day? Vitamins, B vits. especially?

 

Does he have enough sleep at night? Does he have a quiet time during the day with a lot of physical activities during other times? Does he take meds? Does he need them?

 

How much TV/movies/video games is he exposed to? Cut off the electronics (all of them) and see what happens. Allow for a backlash/detox time.

 

Is the daily routine structured and without to many surprises? Transitions are really hard for us here and require much preparation.

 

***If you haven't already, please read Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach. This is a manual, the closest you can get to it, with scripted lines to say and when to say them and how.

 

The techniques are very different than what you're used to perhaps, as they are not like ordinary parenting moves. Ordinary parenting doesn't work for kids like my ds, I know. Actually made it worse. This book changed our family dynamic. this is not a parenting book. It is a hard-core, commit yourself fully, boot camp for changing the way you communicate and conduct your household.

 

Another book to try is The Explosive Child. You don't have to have a volatile child to gain from it. It gave me some real help that I was able to implement.

 

I really believe most children want to do what is right and please us.

[happygrrl]

***If you haven't already, please read Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach. This is a manual, the closest you can get to it, with scripted lines to say and when to say them and how.

 

 

After reading this I read the reviews on Amazon, and I have a few questions, if you don't mind. Do you use the workbook or just the book? How long have you used this system? Have other family members read it? Thanks!!

[sarah in tenn]

Discipline is a very personal subject, and having children with special needs, means one size does not fit all in my family.

One thing I have tried with my ADHD son is to have him work off energy. It may sound strange, but sometimes the disobedience I found related to unvented frustration or too much time in his room. I have found that my children need a great deal of physical exercise, so I would send them to run laps around the house as many as it would take to wear them down. If it is between siblings both run. Then, I was able to tell if it was defiance/ disobedience or needing to run off energy.

A great book and one I had not heard much about is Zig Ziglar's, Raising Positive Kids.

 

Be encouraged that you are asking for help.

sarah

[sarah in tenn]

I second Transforming the Difficult Child!!

more options on my shelf...

Also, Shepherding a Child's Heart by Tripp for a Biblical perspective with different approaches.

Strong willed child or dreamer? by Dr. Dana Scott Spears and Dr. Ron L. Braund helped me as well. Lots of sensitivity and creativity along with the ADHD.

Zig Ziglar is on my bedside table.

 

sarah

[CactusPair]

Hi, I read the book and started to use it in 2003. They didn't have a workbook back then. I read and re-read the book and highlighted the heck out of it and wrote all over it. I kept some notes in a notebook, too.

 

So if there had been a workbook then, and I felt like I could afford it, I probably could have used it!

 

I tried very hard to get my dh to read it. He was interested, but never would. Tpyical for him. He won't read anything unrelated to his job. He's a great dad, but he wants/needs me to do all the parenting research and experiments and then just present findings to him in small chunks. Who does he think he is, the president or something!?:001_smile: Oh, well. It all worked out ok.

 

I had to teach dh what to say, how to say it, etc, in order to get with the Transforming program. As the book's techniques were a lot different than what we were used to, it took dh some time & practice. There were a few fights about it, mostly both of us blowing off frustration.

 

Dh knew how committed I was to trying this new plan, though, and he put a lot of effort into implementing it with me. We both knew we *had* to do something to help our family and ds. Things weren't very pretty at our house bec. of all the behavior problems. I used to the books techniques exactly as they were written and went whole hog with it. I was so desperate I was willing to pour myself 200% into our family's rehabilitation.

 

We still use what we learned from the book, but more as a lifestyle, a habit of communicatiion and guidance. My ds is almost 9 and a great kid. He still has some mild special needs, but he does great and his behavior is what you'd expect from a boy is age. For us, that's saying a lot.

 

The book taught me how to be a better parent to my special child. I feel good about myself as a mom now.

 

I do want to add that another thing we used to help our household problems was floortime. This was where dh really came to the rescue, stepped up to the plate and gave his all. His contribution in this dept. was/is invaluable.

 

You can google floortime and Stanley Greenspan for more info. but basically floor time is literally getting down on the floor and playing kid stuff with your child. The child directs the play, the toys, games, etc are of his choosing. He is the boss and leads the parent (unless things are going awry). Sometimes the parent simply narrates what he sees the child doing during play without actually participating.

 

We saw amazing results with floor time and it worked well as part of our family's whole Transforming plan.

 

Best wishes

[8filltheheart]

Hi Jennefer,

 

It is a rough road. I encourage you to deal with this professionally. (again ;) ) The older they get, the harder it is going to be for him, you, and the rest of your family.

 

Finding the right meds is a key start. I can't emphasize that enough. Meds are not placebos nor are they cop-outs nor are they unnecessary. Eventually, weaning off may be achieved, but initially, they are important. (Weaning off is really dependent on their learning the mental skills to control their behavior. The meds are not a crutch, they are one of the tools)

 

Also, cognitive behavioral therapy is extremely helpful. Not just therapy. CBT actually teaches them to think through situations differently and skills on how to control their behavior. Don't get me started at how frustrated I am that our ds has been in therapy off and on since 12 (that is 4 yrs) and only the last couple of months have we even learned about the differences in therapy and mental training. Do not trust a psy to tell you the truth about whether or not they are CBT trained. It will probably take 6 months on a waiting list to actually get in to see a good CBT therapist.

 

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Treatments_and_Supports&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=7952

 

I recently met a mom who is as sweet and as calm as can be. As we became friends, I started telling her about ds and she started telling me about herself. She was very much like our ds when she was a teenager. She told me that CBT changed her life. (That and meds.) She is the one that pushed us in the right direction. She is still on some meds, but nothing like before her CBT.

 

I rarely visit the WTM forums anymore. Email me anytime you want.

 

Karen

[happygrrl]

Hi, I read the book and started to use it in 2003. They didn't have a workbook back then. I read and re-read the book and highlighted the heck out of it and wrote all over it. I kept some notes in a notebook, too.

 

So if there had been a workbook then, and I felt like I could afford it, I probably could have used it!

 

I tried very hard to get my dh to read it. He was interested, but never would. Tpyical for him. He won't read anything unrelated to his job. He's a great dad, but he wants/needs me to do all the parenting research and experiments and then just present findings to him in small chunks. Who does he think he is, the president or something!?:001_smile: Oh, well. It all worked out ok.

 

I had to teach dh what to say, how to say it, etc, in order to get with the Transforming program. As the book's techniques were a lot different than what we were used to, it took dh some time & practice. There were a few fights about it, mostly both of us blowing off frustration.

 

Dh knew how committed I was to trying this new plan, though, and he put a lot of effort into implementing it with me. We both knew we *had* to do something to help our family and ds. Things weren't very pretty at our house bec. of all the behavior problems. I used to the books techniques exactly as they were written and went whole hog with it. I was so desperate I was willing to pour myself 200% into our family's rehabilitation.

 

We still use what we learned from the book, but more as a lifestyle, a habit of communicatiion and guidance. My ds is almost 9 and a great kid. He still has some mild special needs, but he does great and his behavior is what you'd expect from a boy is age. For us, that's saying a lot.

 

The book taught me how to be a better parent to my special child. I feel good about myself as a mom now.

 

I do want to add that another thing we used to help our household problems was floortime. This was where dh really came to the rescue, stepped up to the plate and gave his all. His contribution in this dept. was/is invaluable.

 

You can google floortime and Stanley Greenspan for more info. but basically floor time is literally getting down on the floor and playing kid stuff with your child. The child directs the play, the toys, games, etc are of his choosing. He is the boss and leads the parent (unless things are going awry). Sometimes the parent simply narrates what he sees the child doing during play without actually participating.

 

We saw amazing results with floor time and it worked well as part of our family's whole Transforming plan.

 

Best wishes

 

OH, Cactus Pair!!!! This is exactly what I wanted to know. our situation sounds very similar, down to dh's reading style (hee hee). I am going to order this today. I will let you know how things are going with it. Thanks again!!

[Tabrett]

I know I'm probably going to get slammed for this suggestion, but have you read the book To Train Up A Child by the Pearls? It was the only thing that helped me with my dd. I too was screaming and yelling and my dd was having anger issues. I don't know about the medical issues you dc has been diagnosed with (I haven't let a doc diagnose my dc). But it is very different from most parenting books, It also deals some with ADHD and how much physical work a child needs (especially a boy) and with the child's attitude after he has been disciplined. I was really surprised to find out a lot of the problem was me.:w00t: I wasn't, 100% of the time, calmly and joyfully getting up to discipline EVERY TIME my child disobeyed and following through what I said I was going to do the first time. This made a HUGE difference.