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Do you really not need an accredited diploma?


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Once they have a college degree, the employers never even care about high school. My oldest two are out of college and both have engineering degrees and well paying jobs.

 

Oh, the oldest went to college on scholarship based on SAT scores with only a "mommy" diploma. The second got her associates at the local community college before going to the same school as big brother.

 

Linda

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I sure hope so.

 

We're not doing any accredited program here.

 

Now, my daughter was a special case, because she went into an early entrance program where they didn't expect kids to have finished high school. So, it didn't matter for her.

 

But my son is taking a somewhat more traditional path. He will likely have a year of community college credits before applying to four-year schools, but it'll be just that and a mommy diploma.

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All the kids in our local co-op group go on to college

 

UNC, App State, High Point College, Someone is going on to Harvard for

a law degree - not sure where he is now..... I have never heard of any of

these kids not getting into the first choice school they wanted.

 

but they all left home with a "very well organized Mommy diploma" that included SAT - AP classes and all the other things that a regular public/private High School student would have

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Most employment applications focus on highest level of education attained with applicant listing college(s) attended, dates, degree-if any-earned. If mem serves, there is usually a box to check yes or no about being a high school graduate. Of course, our homeschooled graduates can check "yes". If name of high school is needed, then applicant would list name of his/her school (whatever name the family has given the school). The employer's focus is usually on highest level of ed attained-and then that institution might be contacted to verify.

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Public school kids apply for college without a diploma. You apply for college no later than the middle of your senior year, before you graduate.

 

But it sounds like you are really talking about a transcript. Mine aren't that old yet, so I don't know from experience, but I've heard a well-put together ” mom” transcript, showing that your student has covered the state standards will work.

 

I'm watching to see what advice you get.

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I'm going to be getting an accredited diploma for dd, but one reason is my mother is paying for it. She was "concerned" about my dd's diploma. I spoke with my sisters, and they both said if it makes her feel better let her do it. I found a great program that will allow me to choose curricula and send in semester portfolios through the mail. There are some restrictions on credits because they submit electronic transcripts, so she has to do courses that fall under state codes.

 

It will help dd be eligible for our state's lottery scholarship from day one. There's a way to get it retroactively, but it will be nice to have it up front.

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Yes, it works just fine. Just look around the high school threads about graduation and college acceptances as well as the college board and you will see how successful homeschooling high school can be. Homeschooling has become pretty well known at most schools - we didn't meet anyone at the colleges/universities who didn't know about homeschooling or weren't prepared to answer questions pertaining to our applications.

 

In my own case, I have 2 who are attending our state school (because of the degrees they are interested in - and our school ranks highly) both have received scholarships based on their ACT scores and the mommy transcript. In addition, DS#1 just graduated and has a job waiting for him - in fact, that job has been waiting for him since last fall :). He was one of the top recruits nationally for this company (told he was in the top 3 - and his employment pkg and perks reflected that).

 

Yes, yes, homeschooling high school can be very successful. But it must be a priority - you (the mom) becomes school counselor, teacher, and administrator. You'll wear many hats during that time :)

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But is it realistic to think that a "Mommy diploma" is going to be good enough for the long haul? I shudder to think of my ds's resume being tossed on the discard pile for jobs because his high school education is not taken seriously.

 

Accredited diplomas have not been necessary for my two guys. They were accepted into colleges and earned merit scholarships without accredited diplomas. None of the many homeschooling families we know in our area seek out accredited diplomas, and all have been competitive and successful in their paths to college. I can't imagine an employer asking questions about an accredited/non-accredited diploma. In our state when we graduate our homeschool students, they are *high school graduates*. The diploma is just a piece of paper acknowledging that. :)

Edited by Brigid in NC
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Is someone really able to get into a reputable 4-year college, get a job, etc, without an accredited high school diploma? I am really, really struggling with how to do high school at home and part of my dilemma is the accreditation piece. We are in a low regulation state that requires little to nothing of homeschoolers. I have been told that the local cc only cares about a transcript and an ACT score.

 

Here in CA, to enter CC one does not have to have a high school diploma-and if not, just need to be 18. If an applicant has a high school diploma, does not need to be "from an accredited school." So I encourage you to check for yourself what the local cc requires. I do know our local cc, where my ds17 will start college in 8/13, allows students to use SAT, ACT, and/or AP test scores in lieu of placement tests, to place into certain levels of Math and English courses.

 

We are new to homeschooling high school this year, w/ds17. This came up suddenly for us in mid-October, so I had to figure things out quickly. A couple of excellent resources that were, and still are, so helpful to me:

 

The Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling Teens, by Debra Bell. She also has a website: http://debrabell.com/

 

Lee Binz is "The Homescholar"-she homeschooled her 2 sons through high school. They each received tremendous amount of scholarship money and have now graduated from college. She has a number of free resources on her website, a blog and FB page w/info, and has written a book (I have the book; it's very helpful, Setting the Records Straight. Her website is: http://www.thehomescholar.com/

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We're another example of not needing an accredited diploma to get into colleges with merit aid. Middle son's college is ranked #35 and he has merit aid there. I think he did ok... ;)

 

Homeschoolers make it into all levels of colleges without needing accredited diplomas. What they do need is substantiation of their ability. You can get that through ACT/SAT, SAT 2, cc classes, AP tests and probably a few more I'm not thinking of at the moment.

 

Then, as with all successful applicants for top schools or many merit aid awards that are competitive, they'll need extra curriculars that shine.

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I have never had to check a box to say my diploma was accredited. Most job apps ask if you graduated, name of school, and days of attendance or graduation. Give your school an official name, put that as the school name. No one knows the names of all the high schoools. They wont know the difference. For colleges, I have read many threads on the high school boatd that have convinced me I can do this for the long haul. I also listened to a speaker at convention last year, she discussed record keeping amd how she made her kids transcripts. They were detailed, but it was not that hard, amd the schools were impressed.

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Homeschoolers make it into all levels of colleges without needing accredited diplomas. What they do need is substantiation of their ability.

:iagree:

In our college visits and discussions with admissions officers, "accredited" never entered into the discussion. I'd be interested to hear if families are being told by college admissions departments that they are looking for accredited diplomas. We did not find that to be the case at the colleges we visited and considered.

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Guest meahruby

Before I had anyone near high school age, I just assumed they would finish 12th grade, get a GED, if necessary, and move on to jobs or college.

 

When we drew close to high school we dug deeper into the politics of education and found 2 reasons to obtain accredited diplomas.

 

First, an accredited diploma, besides adding credibility to your child and your homeschool, is a requirement for at least one parent to legally homeschool. In PA, I had to produce high school diploma. A friend had a college degree in elementary education and she still had to produce her high school diploma.

 

Second reason, an accredited diploma is sometimes a requirement to obtain scholarships, grants, and even financial aid, for higher learning.

 

Due to the laws of PA, we are required to have yearly evaluations with a state certified teacher, and ours keeps the transcript for us. Then we are able to mail our evaluation letter(s) and transcript to Erie Homeschool Diploma program. It costs about $75 total, but the diplomas have the state seal on them. Thus far, 2 of our children needed theirs to get a loan for school.

 

Hope this helps. :001_smile:

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Public school kids apply for college without a diploma. You apply for college no later than the middle of your senior year, before you graduate.

 

True, but most acceptances are contingent on finishing the senior year and graduating, sometimes even with a particular gpa requirement. And in some states public colleges won't award a college degree-- no matter how high the student's GPA is or how thorough their courseload-- unless the student has a GED or high school diploma (there was an HSDLA case in NY about this). So you can be enrolled, take the classes, do well, then be denied the diploma because you "never finished high school."

 

The state colleges where I live do not recognize "mommy diplomas" :thumbdown: and require a GED or a core of classes taken during attendance. They don't even recognize accredited correspondence high school degrees.

 

Our tentative plan right now with DS is to try to get as many CLEP and dante credits as possible transferred to a local city college and go from there. We're not aiming for a selective college off the bat. I'm also not opposed to his getting a GED if it would make the process more streamlined.

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We will not be getting an accredited diploma. In our state homeschoolers are well recognized and most universities have well-stated homeschooling admission pages on their websites. Ds is not currently looking at top tier schools and CC classes probably won't happen due to distance.

 

We are hoping for a good ACT score, a transcript that matches who he is, the ability to interview well, write a good essay, and have some form of achievement confirmation, maybe CLEP or SAT II.

 

GED isn't even a consideration here and any college that required it would be crossed off our list. I do hope to find a college (have one currently on the list) that would be a good fit for who he is.

 

I have a lot of worries and concerns about the next four years, but accreditation isn't one.

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Before I had anyone near high school age, I just assumed they would finish 12th grade, get a GED, if necessary, and move on to jobs or college.

 

When we drew close to high school we dug deeper into the politics of education and found 2 reasons to obtain accredited diplomas.

 

First, an accredited diploma, besides adding credibility to your child and your homeschool, is a requirement for at least one parent to legally homeschool. In PA, I had to produce high school diploma. A friend had a college degree in elementary education and she still had to produce her high school diploma.

 

Second reason, an accredited diploma is sometimes a requirement to obtain scholarships, grants, and even financial aid, for higher learning.

 

Due to the laws of PA, we are required to have yearly evaluations with a state certified teacher, and ours keeps the transcript for us. Then we are able to mail our evaluation letter(s) and transcript to Erie Homeschool Diploma program. It costs about $75 total, but the diplomas have the state seal on them. Thus far, 2 of our children needed theirs to get a loan for school.

 

Hope this helps. :001_smile:

 

I'm also in PA. I never had to produce any sort of diploma nor check a box saying I had one.

 

Two of my boys are in college. Neither needed an accredited high school diploma even for Pheaa grants, much less loans.

 

There are some companies who like to CLAIM one needs an accredited diploma (probably so they can make money), but I haven't seen it happen.

 

Pittsburgh sent us a letter saying we'd need to have an accredited diploma or show what we'd done for my guy to be accepted, etc, then, before we had a chance to withdraw his application (why bother with other good options?), they accepted my guy AND offered him merit aid. Evidently, their requirements aren't requirements.

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In PA, I had to produce high school diploma. A friend had a college degree in elementary education and she still had to produce her high school diploma.

 

......

It costs about $75 total, but the diplomas have the state seal on them. Thus far, 2 of our children needed theirs to get a loan for school.

 

You may be talking about two different things.

 

Yes, a "diploma" is a good thing to have. They can be purchased at HSLDA or made on your computer. Folks want to see these sometimes (even helps for homeschooling in MN).

 

But "accreditation" is a different egg. The government doesn't accredit things. There are organizations within educational fields that you can hire to evaluate a school and provide a seal of accreditation. There's a Catholic school accreditation group, for instance.

 

Julie

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Two of my boys are in college. Neither needed an accredited high school diploma even for Pheaa grants, much less loans.

 

 

 

I've been in PA the past 3 years, and while my 2 oldest have graduated and gone on to college (oldest will graduate in August) or a FT job (my 2nd is a very-well-paid nanny), our 3rd who graduated this year was just disqualified for a $3652 PHEAA grant because we didn't go through one of their approved diploma programs. How did you get around that? Our local school superintendent won't sign the form (even though my son attended her school for one semester when we first moved here and had very good grades. she's very anti-homeschooling).

 

so, now i will try to get my rising 11th grader into a PHEAA state approved diploma program before it's too late, and will follow suit for our youngest three.

 

as far as needing a high school diploma to homeschool your own kids, the PA law actually says "or equivalent" and a college diploma will suffice. i have a friend who went to high school overseas and had lost her diploma, so she just used her college diploma.

 

my advice is to find out what state financial aid requires in your state. even though we asked when we moved here about the benefits of a diploma program, we were assured a "homemade" diploma and SAt scores would be fine. of course, we were all thinking college acceptance and not financial aid. it did not affect his PELL grant.

 

and thankfully, since he's attending our alma mater, they made up almost what we lost in additional scholarships, so he'll be attending a 4yr private school for less than my daughter paid for her baking/pastry arts degree at the cc.

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First, an accredited diploma, besides adding credibility to your child and your homeschool, is a requirement for at least one parent to legally homeschool. In PA, I had to produce high school diploma. A friend had a college degree in elementary education and she still had to produce her high school diploma.

Most states do not require the parents to submit or otherwise prove that they graduated from high school (or college). The few that do have no requirements for the diploma to have been issued by an accredited school.

 

Second reason, an accredited diploma is sometimes a requirement to obtain scholarships, grants, and even financial aid, for higher learning.

Requiring a diploma from an accredited school has been fought repeatedly and the battle has been won. Diploma (or graduation), yes; accredited school, no.

 

Due to the laws of PA, we are required to have yearly evaluations with a state certified teacher, and ours keeps the transcript for us. Then we are able to mail our evaluation letter(s) and transcript to Erie Homeschool Diploma program. It costs about $75 total, but the diplomas have the state seal on them. Thus far, 2 of our children needed theirs to get a loan for school.

But that doesn't have any thing to do with accreditation.

 

Schools are accredited; diplomas are not. That the PA diploma has a state seal does not mean it was issued by an accredited institution.

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We, too, live in a low regulation state that requires little to nothing of homeschoolers. None of the many families I know who have graduated students have used or needed accreditation. I know of NO instance in which any of the students missed out on any opportunity due to not having accreditation -- college entrance (in-state OR out-of-state; public university OR private); scholarships/grants/financial aid; community college entrance; colleges awarding degrees; company denying them a job; military denying acceptance -- accreditation has played NO role for any of these families, with no problems.

 

 

 

Below are some past threads on the topic of accreditation. As you see, there are a variety of experiences with accreditation, based on where different people live and what their students' post-high school plans are. The vast majority of the time, accreditation is NOT needed. The threads are helpful in that they bring up the infrequent exceptions -- centered around the few unusual specific states, specific institutions, or specific situations) in which accreditation is needed.

 

However, clearly, there is NO standardized national policy -- or even state-wide policy in many instances. In a few states (a few East Coast states), you may be required to go with a "cover school" or accreditation program. In one state (New York), you need to jump some special additional hoops. In Georgia, accreditation is needed, but you have the ability to go through the accreditation process yourself. Or, you may need accreditation or other careful hoop-jumping if you have a student who will participate in NCAA sports in college.

 

The best thing to do is to find out for yourself:

1. What your State's laws are re: accreditation and homeschool? (if any)

2. What post-high school institutions would your DC likely attend? (find out requirements of these institutions re: accreditation and homeschoolers)

3. Talk with local homeschoolers to find out what they did (re: accreditation or no) in graduating their DC: Have the DC been accepted to colleges? Jobs? etc?

4. Read through your state homeschooling organization's material on homeschooling high school, and ask questions about accreditation.

 

 

If your state does not have requirements about accreditation, here are some additional situations in which you may need to consider accreditation:

 

- Moving from a low regulation state to a highly regulated state during the high school years.

- Switching from home school to a local public or private school (in order to have homeschool credits accepted).

- Applying to the rare, picky college or post-high school institution (the only time I ever heard of this one was a cosmetology school that only accepted a GED or an accredited high school diploma for entrance -- most likely the requirement was to limit the number of high school dropouts with no GED or diploma from entering...)

 

Things you can do to help limit potential "red flags" in the minds of others:

- Name your homeschool with a school-like name; create a logo and letterhead; and use on all transcripts and correspondence with any institution.

- Consider purchasing an embosser with your school name and logo for embossing all transcripts and other official school documents.

- Entitle all your coursework on the transcript with class titles very similar to what the local schools use as class titles, and what universities expect to see as class titles.

- Check both your state's list of classes required for high school graduation AND the list of classes required for college entrance in your area, and shoot for having all of those classes as part of your high school transcript.

 

 

BEST of luck as you plan for high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Important question about accreditation -- how important is this to getting into college?

Accreditation

I am having big high school planning issues (accreditation)

Advantage to getting a diploma from an accredited school like VP?

Accredited diploma. Is it worth the $$$?

 

Here, Bev in B'ville links the Georgia state accrediting commission and gives details on the process of how to become an accredited homeschooler.

 

If you *had* to choose an accredited program for high school, which one would it be?

Accredited High School home school programs

Which correspondence schools are accredited?

Are there accredited high school programs that allow you to choose curriculums?

Edited by Lori D.
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Mine went into the military and two into college with a non-accredited homeschool diploma. No one had any trouble getting a job or vocational training (nurse's aide for one kid) or anything. It simply wasn't something that was even commented on. You know what WAS commented on for college? Standardized test scores, community involvement, and essays.

 

As a homeschool parent the law says that I have to have a high school diploma myself but the law doesn't say that MY diploma has to be accredited. Good thing too since I went to a public high school in Pa and when I looked over my dipoma it didn't say squat on there about being accredited by anyone. The school district would need to do some research to find out whether or not my Pa high school was accredited back in '82. I don't even have to show it to the school district (most folks seem to think they have to), all I have to do is attest that I have one in my notarized affidavit. A notarized affidavit is a sworn statement, the same kind of thing that gets accepted in court cases. The school district must accept the notarized affidavit that states you have a high school diploma. You do not need to show them the diploma.

 

If the school district has reasonable doubt over whether I have a diploma that I attested I have in my notarized affidavit, they can't just demand to see it according to the law, they have to request it and they have to state why they are requesting it (not just 'because we want to') because I can sue them for basically calling me a liar who committed a crime by lying on a sworn statement. So, they had better be prepared to prove that or get sued. You can't just tell people you don't believe their sworn statements. If you are then proved wrong when I wave my high school diploma in your face, there are consequences because I am a b*tch who won't just let the situation drop and smile while you demand your next unreasonable thing. Most people and most school districts think a notarized statement is meaningless, but it isn't.

 

We are in Pa, and no one has had any trouble applying for college or financial aid because we didn't pay the Richman's their pound of flesh (long story). I think the Erie County Diploma folks are a lot more reasonable in costs, and as I understand it the Erie County Diploma was created so that the Richmans and crooks like them didn't get richer from people who were concerned over their kids getting into college.

 

However, not all public high schools are accredited. You can go right to the website for the accrediting body for PA high schools and look at the list to find out if the local public high school in your area is accredited. I do not understand why college admissions people sometime ASSUME that a public high school is accredited.

 

The accrediting body for schools in Pa is the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools. They do not automatically accredit all public schools in Pa just because the schools are public schools. Our local public high school is not listed as being accredited by this organization, actually.

 

I also found out that the local private Christian schools in our area routinely graduate kids with a non-accredited diploma.

 

Anyway, if you want to pay someone to 'accredit' your homeschool in Pa, please give your money to the Erie County Diploma people because at least they are honest people who are trying to do what they think is a good thing without trying to make money off of a law they deliberately set out to have passed to create a little business for themselves like PaHomeschoolers. Oh, and the same folks at PaHomeschoolers who started their little 'let me accredit your homeschool for a fee' business are THE SAME FOLKS WHO ADVOCATED TO HAVE THE PORTFOLIO AND THE LOG stuff added to the homeschool law too. So you can thank them also for all that paperwork you have to do on top of having your child evaluated, and also for the fact that you have to also give all that paperwork to the school district plus the evaluator's letter, which in turn makes the school district think they can also evaluate your portfolio. THANK YOU SUSAN RICHMAN!

Edited by Rainefox
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our 3rd who graduated this year was just disqualified for a $3652 PHEAA grant because we didn't go through one of their approved diploma programs. How did you get around that? Our local school superintendent won't sign the form (even though my son attended her school for one semester when we first moved here and had very good grades. she's very anti-homeschooling).

 

 

 

Ours has no issue with signing since we follow the rules. (I'm not saying you didn't. I'd be inclined to have a lawyer send the school a letter if you have followed the rules as I suspect your superintendent is doing something that may be illegal.)

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I've been in PA the past 3 years, and while my 2 oldest have graduated and gone on to college (oldest will graduate in August) or a FT job (my 2nd is a very-well-paid nanny), our 3rd who graduated this year was just disqualified for a $3652 PHEAA grant because we didn't go through one of their approved diploma programs. How did you get around that? Our local school superintendent won't sign the form (even though my son attended her school for one semester when we first moved here and had very good grades. she's very anti-homeschooling).

 

so, now i will try to get my rising 11th grader into a PHEAA state approved diploma program before it's too late, and will follow suit for our youngest three.

 

as far as needing a high school diploma to homeschool your own kids, the PA law actually says "or equivalent" and a college diploma will suffice. i have a friend who went to high school overseas and had lost her diploma, so she just used her college diploma.

 

my advice is to find out what state financial aid requires in your state. even though we asked when we moved here about the benefits of a diploma program, we were assured a "homemade" diploma and SAt scores would be fine. of course, we were all thinking college acceptance and not financial aid. it did not affect his PELL grant.

 

and thankfully, since he's attending our alma mater, they made up almost what we lost in additional scholarships, so he'll be attending a 4yr private school for less than my daughter paid for her baking/pastry arts degree at the cc.

 

 

You should appeal the denial. Many public high schools in Pa are also not accredited. You are being discriminated against because you are homeschoolers. You should not have been denied the PHEAA grant. If they have given grants to students who graduated from any other non-accredited schools, including non-accredited public or private schools, they can't deny your child because your diploma was not accredited. You may want to pursue this.

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Ours has no issue with signing since we follow the rules. (I'm not saying you didn't. I'd be inclined to have a lawyer send the school a letter if you have followed the rules as I suspect your superintendent is doing something that may be illegal.)

 

We have followed all the rules we know about. We did not use a PA diploma program approved evaluator, just a regular state approved one. We didnt know there was a difference. We have done all the portfolios/evaluations/testing that is required. Our school district is in dealings with lawyers right now due to the extra requirements they put on us last year (like transcripts submitted for the high schoolers portfolios).

 

As far as calling the diplomas accredited, I always figured PA was just using "accredited" to mean a diploma program they've approved of

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We have followed all the rules we know about. We did not use a PA diploma program approved evaluator, just a regular state approved one. We didnt know there was a difference. We have done all the portfolios/evaluations/testing that is required. Our school district is in dealings with lawyers right now due to the extra requirements they put on us last year (like transcripts submitted for the high schoolers portfolios).

 

As far as calling the diplomas accredited, I always figured PA was just using "accredited" to mean a diploma program they've approved of

 

We've only used state approved evaluators too - never a PA diploma approved person.

 

Middle son can't get a Pheaa grant, but that's because he's going to school in NY, not PA, and NY doesn't have a reciprocal program - that's the reason we get on Pheaa's site anyway. He would qualify had he chosen Pitt.

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I'm going to be getting an accredited diploma for dd, but one reason is my mother is paying for it. She was "concerned" about my dd's diploma. I spoke with my sisters, and they both said if it makes her feel better let her do it. I found a great program that will allow me to choose curricula and send in semester portfolios through the mail. There are some restrictions on credits because they submit electronic transcripts, so she has to do courses that fall under state codes.

 

It will help dd be eligible for our state's lottery scholarship from day one. There's a way to get it retroactively, but it will be nice to have it up front.

 

Would you mind sharing the name of the program? My dd is just enetering 6th, but when we get to hs I would like to got the same route and get her an accredited diploma. I love the idea of being able to choose my own curricula. :001_smile:

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I'm also in PA. I never had to produce any sort of diploma nor check a box saying I had one.

 

Two of my boys are in college. Neither needed an accredited high school diploma even for Pheaa grants, much less loans.

 

There are some companies who like to CLAIM one needs an accredited diploma (probably so they can make money), but I haven't seen it happen.

 

Pittsburgh sent us a letter saying we'd need to have an accredited diploma or show what we'd done for my guy to be accepted, etc, then, before we had a chance to withdraw his application (why bother with other good options?), they accepted my guy AND offered him merit aid. Evidently, their requirements aren't requirements.

 

Creekland, did you ever communicate to Pittsburgh that the way they handled your son's application as a homeschooler contributed to his choosing another school?

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...The state colleges where I live do not recognize "mommy diplomas" :thumbdown: and require a GED or a core of classes taken during attendance. They don't even recognize accredited correspondence high school degrees...

 

What state are you in? (Just curious so if you would rather not say, please ignore this...)

 

Nan

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Creekland, did you ever communicate to Pittsburgh that the way they handled your son's application as a homeschooler contributed to his choosing another school?

 

Sort of. We did mention it to them when he declined the school, but I didn't tell them that's why he chose another school - mainly because it wasn't the reason. He simply liked URoc a lot better. Pitt was off our list due to being annoyed at their letter, but it kept coming back on due to all they offer in neuroscience. If he hadn't liked URoc better (MUCH better) or if URoc hadn't been affordable it's highly likely he'd have gone to Pitt and I'm pretty sure it would have been a formality getting our transcript accepted due to my guy's high stats, getting merit aid (NOT easy to do at Pitt) and similar. He also could have chosen Alabama, but UA just isn't there yet with recognition (in the north) and doesn't have his desired major (neuroscience). Pre-med wise, I wasn't as impressed with UA based upon some MCAT scores I saw, etc. UA is a good school with great merit awards... but for us, URoc and/or Pitt just ended up higher with our needs/preferences.

 

Pitt never answered other than a form letter letting middle son know if his plans change, he's still welcome there, but I really didn't expect to hear from them. They're a big school. Big schools often aren't great with communication - esp if one isn't going there. I doubt our complaint ever got past the initial reader.

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