What is an English credit?

[HollyDay]

The colleges I've researched seem to indicate they want 4 English credits plus an American Lit credit and a Brit Lit credit.

 

So, what is an English 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 credit? I assume it is grammar review each year. Vocabulary each year? Writing each year (well, yes)? Additional literature such as World Lit?

 

I'm just making sure I'm checking all the boxes.......

[Ellie]

Well, it's most common for each year of high school English to include grammar, composition, and literature. Vocabulary isn't usually a separate study but part of the literature study.

[chepyl]

A typical credit at most schools around me includes grammar, vocabulary/spelling, writing, and lit studies. The lit includes poetry, short story, and historical lit units as well as 4-6 novels outside of class.

 

My junior year included an art study.

 

For writing, there are typically large research papers junior and senior year and literary analysis paper(s) in at least the senior year.

[chepyl]

Well, it's most common for each year of high school English to include grammar, composition, and literature. Vocabulary isn't usually a separate study but part of the literature study.

 

We always had a separate vocabulary book, most of my dance and theatre students do as well. Many times it is an SAT prep series.

[SuperDad]

The core elements of a high school English class are composition (including grammar, research, and actual writing) and literature (including vocabulary, poetry, comprehension, analysis, and various forms of literature). Prep for the critical reading and writing portions of standardized assessments (such as the SAT) is sometimes included. Research papers and literary analysis essays are typically included in the upperclassman years.

[Lori D.]

The colleges I've researched seem to indicate they want 4 English credits plus an American Lit credit and a Brit Lit credit. So, what is an English 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 credit? I assume it is grammar review each year. Vocabulary each year? Writing each year (well, yes)? Additional literature such as World Lit?

 

 

My understanding is that an English credit is approximately 1/2 Writing and 1/2 Literature. Many people use some sort of writing instruction in grades 9 and 10, or in grades 9-11, and then in the last year or two all writing is based on essays and responses to the Literature, and whatever real life writing is needed -- practice for timed SAT/ACT essays from prompts; college entrance essays; scholarship application essays; resumes; Science labs; research papers (History, etc.)...

 

Usually there is a little light Grammar review/practice, incorporated in the Writing. Vocabulary is usually words from the Literature, but a separate roots program could easily be included. If Spelling is still needed, it is a remedial need and is not included as part of the English credit, nor as a separate credit.

 

Below are the three most common Literature progressions I've seen. It is usually understood that the Literature is part of the English credit, and is only listed separately if it was an entire credit's worth of separate additional literature. For example, you could list it like this on the transcript:

 

ENGLISH

English 9: Composition & Intro to Lit. = 1 credit

English 10: Composition & Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit. = 1 credit

English 11: Composition & American Lit. = 1 credit

English 12: Composition & British Lit. = 1 credit

 

ELECTIVES

Classic Literature: Modern World Lit. = 1 credit

Classic Literature: Ancient Lit. = 0.5 credit

 

Hope that helps! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

standard progression:

grade 9 = intro (selection of classics)

grade 10 = eclectic mix (selection of classics) -- OR -- focus on a genre, author, time period, etc.

grade 11 = American Lit.

grade 12 = British Lit.

 

typically "advanced" progression:

grade 9 = intro (selection of classics)

grade 10 = American Lit.

grade 11 = British Lit.

grade 12 = World Lit.

 

classical progression:

grade 9 = = ancient classics (ancient Greek and Roman works)

grade 10 = medieval classics (500AD - 1600AD works -- primarily British works)

grade 11 = renaissance to enlightenment classics (1600-1850 -- primarily British, European, early American works)

grade 12 = modern classics (1850-present -- World, British, and American works)

Edited May 26, 2012 by Lori D.

[Trilliums]

I'd also consider oral presentations part of an English credit.

 

ETA: as in, research a topic and give a presentation summarizing findings or making a point ad well as oral discussions / presentations on literature.

[Jane Elliot]

The colleges I've researched seem to indicate they want 4 English credits plus an American Lit credit and a Brit Lit credit.

 

So, what is an English 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 credit? I assume it is grammar review each year. Vocabulary each year? Writing each year (well, yes)? Additional literature such as World Lit?

 

I'm just making sure I'm checking all the boxes.......

 

These questions we’ve had lately about what constitutes an English requirement have made me extremely curious, so I started my own little research project, and this is what I’ve come up with so far. If others have specific information they’ve gotten from college admissions offices, I hope they’ll add to this.

 

Most colleges we’ve looked at, applied to, and/or enrolled in do not specify what they want to see in an English course. They simply ask for “four years of English.” If there is a specific, agreed-upon standard, I cannot find it. Since different states have varying requirements for high school graduation, and since colleges enroll students from all different states, it makes sense that they would remain fairly flexible about requirements.

 

(Side note: In Idaho I'm free to homeschool independently, so I have never been particularly concerned about requirements from a high school entity or umbrella school. I've only been concerned about requirements from colleges in which we may like to enroll.)

 

I’ve pasted some information below where I could find it. These are schools we’ve looked at in addition to some Ivies. The colleges at which I have dc enrolled (top tier Christian and state universities) never specified what they wanted in an English course and were happy with my one English and one literature credit per year. For the most part, we’ve done English and great books as recommended in WTM.

 

(I didn't bother linking to schools that were in the majority that didn't list specific English course suggestions or requirements.)

 

http://wheaton.edu/Admissions-and-Aid/Undergrad/Apply/Admissions-Process/High-School-Requirements

Courses that meet the unit requirements: English (4 units recommended) — Examples: grammar, literature, composition, speech, debate, forensics, writing.

 

http://www.phc.edu/Application_Requirements.php

English: Minimum of four courses. To be well-prepared, students should pursue a well-rounded, college preparatory English program that emphasizes literature, grammar, and composition. Examples: grammar, literature, composition, speech, and debate. Please note: Competitive speech and debate may count for one English course.

 

http://www.uidaho.edu/admissions/first-year-students/first-year-admission-requirements/core-requirements

English 8-credit (4 years) minimum requirement;

Composition, literature, or courses that integrate composition, language, and literature. My note: U of ID also requires credits in humanities which can be met by additional literature courses.

 

http://admissions.yale.edu/advice-selecting-high-school-courses

My note: As most schools, Yale doesn’t list specific requirements for English courses, but this whole page is interesting to consider.

 

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/preparing/index.html

Most of you study "English" every year in secondary school. But the content of English courses varies widely, and some of you will have a choice among several offerings. How should you choose? We recommend that you look for courses that will teach you how to read critically, or analytically, the works of major novelists, poets, and playwrights.

We hope that by the time you arrive at college you will love reading for its own sake, and that you will have gone beyond the books you have been required to read into areas of your own interest – fiction, biography, essays, or poetry – and that you will come to care about manner, as well as matter. Besides reading novels for what they can tell you about life in times and places other than your own, you will notice how authors treat different problems or how they treat the same problems in different ways. Authors vary in the social classes they explore, in the sort of characters they invent, and in how they tell a story. Your reading should lead to reflections on these differences. In at least one area, let your reading be as deep as you can make it. For example, read five novels of one author and see how the formal explorations of fictional possibilities within the novels change in the course of the author's life. Or, if your particular interest is a topical one (say, women writers), range through a couple of countries and centuries to see how your topic changes over space and time, as writers like Jane Austen or Toni Morrison confront their societies. The important thing is to read as much as you can, to find authors that you enjoy and investigate their work, to browse in libraries and bookstores and pick up new books that interest you, and to think critically about how your favorite writers differ from each other in content and in form. If you enjoy poetry, memorize poems until you carry them around inside your head. You will think differently about them once they are truly yours. You can bring to college no more valuable a possession than a mind well-stocked from reading. Just as speaking is modeled on hearing, so writing is modeled on reading. Every good writer was a good reader first.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Luann in ID

[Julie in MN]

These questions we’ve had lately about what constitutes an English requirement have made me extremely curious, so I started my own little research project,

 

Luann, Thanks for sharing that. The Yale and Harvard info was especially interesting.

 

Julie

[HollyDay]

Thank you!! The Yale information was very interesting. I don't want to "check the box" for the sake of "checking the box". I want dd to have an excellent well rounded high school experience/education. That means good literature from all around the world, history, geography, 4 solid years of math, art appreciation, 4 years of science (including physics), foreign language, music, etc. AND the ability to write about all of it.

[Skadi]

We are keeping literature and English separate. I know that public schools often combine them, as Lori said, but in my experience there is very little depth or breadth to lit. We aren't just doing one play, a short story and some selections...we plan for 20 - 30 Great Books, so it makes sense that we assign a full, separate credit for that. This is our tentative English plan. You'll notice that each year is devoted to a different aspect of composition.

 

 

 

English I – Writing skills are developed by studying and practicing the writing of sentences and paragraphs, leading up to essay writing in various styles. Grammar, the proper use of citation, and the structure of a formal research paper are reviewed. Fifty new vocabulary words are learned. Textbook: The National Writing Institute's Writing Strands: Level 4 and Strunk & White's The Elements of Style

 

English II – Nonfiction works and plays are examined; this course features an emphasis on vocabulary and literary analysis. Students will also give a formal persuasive speech. Fifty new vocabulary words are learned. Textbook: The National Writing Institute's Writing Strands: Level 5 and Strunk & White's The Elements of Style

 

English III – Skills such as learning to research a topic and using primary and secondary sources are practiced. Students will continue to improve their writing skills by concentrating on clear and concise essays. Essay genres emphasized are the Autobiographical–Reflective Essay and the Response to Literature Essay. MLA formatting of all essays is required. Fifty new vocabulary words are learned. Textbook: The National Writing Institute's Writing Strands: Level 6 and Strunk & White's The Elements of Style

 

English IV – Listening and speaking ability is mastered, speeches are rehearsed and delivered, along with other presentations. Grammar, punctuation, and sentence structure skills are fully mastered. Fifty new vocabulary words are learned. Textbook: The National Writing Institute's Writing Strands: Level 7 and Strunk & White's The Elements of Style

[Julie in MN]

One concern I have with giving an "English" credit and a separate "Literature" credit is that your English looks like a remedial credit.

 

If most high schoolers just incorporate grammar into their writing skills, then a grammar-heavy course looks like a student needs extra work (unless it's something specific, like the grammar of poetry). If most high schoolers just incorporate their literature essays into their writing, then having to focus on writing for a whole credit looks like extra work is needed again (unless it's something specific, like creative writing). The schools I'm familiar with tend to have advanced students doing "just" literature by 11th grade, which seems to imply that they don't need the extensive "English" study.

 

Not sure if every college would look at it that way, but it seems to be the way high schools around me do it.

 

Julie

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Are they wanting a total of 6 credits or are the asking for 4 credits including American and British lit?

 

I think 6 English credits would be quite unusual.

[HodgesSchool]

One concern I have with giving an "English" credit and a separate "Literature" credit is that your English looks like a remedial credit.

 

Julie

 

 

Do you think it would make a difference if it were called something like "Analysis and Composition"?

[Jenny in Florida]

One concern I have with giving an "English" credit and a separate "Literature" credit is that your English looks like a remedial credit.

 

This is one of my concerns, too.

 

For what it's worth, as I've said elsewhere, we do much more than would "justify" a credit for English. In addition to grammar and composition and all of the mechanical stuff, my kids read and write about a good number of books every year. Sure, it's more than enough hours to count it as two credits, but mine still get just one.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that schooled students don't do all of their work during the hour a day of class time. They have homework, that often includes the actual reading of the works they'll discuss in class. They write their papers on their own time, not during class. So, they, too, are actually putting in way more than the 150 - 180 hours required to earn a credit.

[Julie in MN]

Do you think it would make a difference if it were called something like "Analysis and Composition"?

 

I think you could come up with a name that works. This one still sounds like it should be part of the lit credit - that credit isn't simply for the reading portion, is it? I mean, those Harvard and Yale links that Luann supplied seemed to imply that good students are just reading more on their own, which seems right.

 

Maybe a name that shows how her studies are unique?

ETA: I always look at local schools. Here's the U of M list of English courses.

http://onestop2.umn.edu/courseinfo/viewClassScheduleTermAndSubject.do?campus=UMNTC&searchTerm=UMNTC%2C1129%2CFall%2C2012%2Cfalse&searchSubject=ENGL|English%3A++Literature+-+ENGL&searchFullYearEnrollmentOnly=false&Submit=View

I see "Textual analysis" and "the essay" and "intro to editing," so those kinds of things do create whole courses, I just think in high school it needs to be clear it's not remedial grammar and writing, because so many high school kids need that.

 

Julie

Edited May 27, 2012 by Julie in MN

[HodgesSchool]

I think you're absolutely right. We're at the very beginning of this process and trying to figure out what we'll call everything (rather than worrying about credits). I have several years to make final decisions about it, luckily!

 

Until thinking about these posts a little more, I had assumed I would name the English classes as Ancient and Medieval Literature, From Shakespeare to the 17th Cent, 19th-20th Lit of Europe and the World, and American Literature (or some such craziness).

 

I was also assuming that we would emphasize creative writing, essay writing, research, and literary analysis techniques--and that these would fit within the literature class.

 

This discussion and others have made me wonder if I need to make it more apparent on the transcript that the English credit is not for literature alone.

 

Instead of calling the year's English credit by its literary theme, should I label it English 9 (or English 1), English 10 (or English 2)... and make it clear on the course description that it contained both a literary theme and a composition theme?

 

(Perhaps it does not really matter as long as the course descriptions make it clear what we are doing?)

[regentrude]

This discussion and others have made me wonder if I need to make it more apparent on the transcript that the English credit is not for literature alone.

 

Instead of calling the year's English credit by its literary theme, should I label it English 9 (or English 1), English 10 (or English 2)... and make it clear on the course description that it contained both a literary theme and a composition theme?

 

 

 

This is what we will be doing. Advice I got on this board was to keep things simple for the admissions officials. They are familiar with course titles like "English 9,10 etc" and quick-check the transcripts to see that requirements have been satisfied.

I will give the detailed information on the literature we study in the course descriptions, and also describe how our English and history studies are integrated for anybody who is interested in looking more closely. The transcript does not seem to be the best place to demonstrate this.

[Virginia Heather]

So... another question for you :)

 

In the 9th grade, ds will likely be taking Composition 2 and Omnibus III Seconday online (via VPSA). When 2 specific, "english-y," full-credit courses are taken (such as these), how are they designated on the transcript to ensure that full credit is granted for the work completed? Do I come up with a creative name for the Omni course (to reflect it as modern literature) and then lump the Comp course into a generic "English 1" title (and then in the course description, list other components of our english studies such as grammar/vocab, etc). OR do I call the comp. class... "Composition 2" (just as VP labels it) and forget about the generic "English 1" designation? Thoughts??

[Jenny in Florida]

So... another question for you :)

 

In the 9th grade, ds will likely be taking Composition 2 and Omnibus III Seconday online (via VPSA). When 2 specific, "english-y," full-credit courses are taken (such as these), how are they designated on the transcript to ensure that full credit is granted for the work completed?

 

Well, I just took a look at the course description on the Veritas site, and it looks like their composition classes meet for only three hours a week. Is that right? If so, that isn't, strictly speaking, a full credit's worth of work, anyway. And the Omnibus course, assuming I have the right one, is also only three hours per week? If so, and assuming that a traditional school-based class meets for an hour a day five days a week, doing both of these courses is actually only a little more than a single, typical English course.

[Virginia Heather]

So Jenny-- would reading & writing done outside of class NOT count towards the hours needed to declare a full credit? I had always assumed that 3hrs of class time plus 2-3 hrs of weekly homework constituted a credit? Yikes! I'm so glad I have one more year to get this all straight!!

Edited May 27, 2012 by Virginia Heather

[Jenny in Florida]

So Jenny-- would reading & writing done outside of class NOT count towards the hours needed to declare a full credit? I had always assumed that 3hrs of class time plus 2-3 hrs of weekly homework constituted a credit? Yikes! I'm so glad I have one more year to get this all straight!!

 

Compare it to students attending brick and mortar schools. They go to class five days a week for roughly an hour a day. So, five hours a week of formal class time.

 

During those classes, they are assigned reading and writing to do at home and turn in during subsequent classes.

 

The way I see it, this means they experience five hours a week of "in their seats" time and ALSO however many hours they need at home to complete their assignments. If we assume an hour of homework a night, a student might spend 10 hours per week to earn a single credit.

[Julie in MN]

Compare it to students attending brick and mortar schools. They go to class five days a week for roughly an hour a day. So, five hours a week of formal class time.

 

During those classes, they are assigned reading and writing to do at home and turn in during subsequent classes.

 

The way I see it, this means they experience five hours a week of "in their seats" time and ALSO however many hours they need at home to complete their assignments. If we assume an hour of homework a night, a student might spend 10 hours per week to earn a single credit.

 

I think this is tricky to define. I've known public schoolers who spend hours and hours on homework, but I've also known some who don't even pay attention for 45 minutes during class - more like 10 minutes, with all the mickey-mouse that goes on in there. Hmmm, I suppose we want to err on the side of more rather than less...

 

Julie

[regentrude]

Compare it to students attending brick and mortar schools. They go to class five days a week for roughly an hour a day. So, five hours a week of formal class time.

During those classes, they are assigned reading and writing to do at home and turn in during subsequent classes.

The way I see it, this means they experience five hours a week of "in their seats" time and ALSO however many hours they need at home to complete their assignments. If we assume an hour of homework a night, a student might spend 10 hours per week to earn a single credit.

 

The important word is "might". This is not the reality in the average public school.

An hour is not an hour but 45-50 minutes. A substantial part of this time is wasted for taking attendance, getting supplies ready, announcements, pointless remarks from students, discussions of little literary value.

I know high school English teachers who are not allowed to assign homework or out-of-class reading - all literature studied is read aloud during class time in school.

 

Sure, there will be schools with a workload like you describe. But I would suspect these to be far from the norm - judging from the literacy of incoming college students which my colleagues in English lament, either they spend much less time, or they spend time without learning much.

 

 

ETA: Just looked up what our local public high school is doing for English. The English III and Pre-AP teacher for example uses Fridays as "Silent reading Day": students bring a book (any book) to class and read.

For the AP English class, students may choose whether they want to write three 1500 word papers, two 2250 word papers, one 4,500 word paper per semester. 1-2 times per semester they write an in-class essay.

This does not look like 10 hours work per week.

Edited May 27, 2012 by regentrude

[Jenny in Florida]

The important word is "might". This is not the reality in the average public school.

An hour is not an hour but 45-50 minutes. A substantial part of this time is wasted for taking attendance, getting supplies ready, announcements, pointless remarks from students, discussions of little literary value.

I know high school English teachers who are not allowed to assign homework or out-of-class reading - all literature studied is read aloud during class time in school.

 

Sure, there will be schools with a workload like you describe. But I would suspect these to be far from the norm - judging from the literacy of incoming college students which my colleagues in English lament, either they spend much less time, or they spend time without learning much.

 

 

ETA: Just looked up what our local public high school is doing for English. The English III and Pre-AP teacher for example uses Fridays as "Silent reading Day": students bring a book (any book) to class and read.

For the AP English class, students may choose whether they want to write three 1500 word papers, two 2250 word papers, one 4,500 word paper per semester. 1-2 times per semester they write an in-class essay.

This does not look like 10 hours work per week.

 

Sure, and some homeschoolers slack off, too.

 

What I'm seeing with my son's friends -- who all started high school at different schools this year -- is a lot of homework.

 

I don't know. I guess, like Julie said, I tend to err on the side of more rather than less. I don't ever, ever want a college admissions person (or, in fact, my own kid) looking over what we did for high school and telling me it wasn't enough.

 

By the way, the numbers you quoted for the amount of writing really aren't terribly low. If we assume 250 words per page, that's about 18 pages of writing per semester, which is about what my daughter was assigned in her college courses. We do more at home, but I don't think it's a bad amount.

[regentrude]

By the way, the numbers you quoted for the amount of writing really aren't terribly low. If we assume 250 words per page, that's about 18 pages of writing per semester, which is about what my daughter was assigned in her college courses. We do more at home, but I don't think it's a bad amount.

 

Really? Thanks, that makes me feel much better about the amount of writing I demand of my kids. I am like you and try to err on the side of too much; I am always worried I do not assign enough writing.

[at the beach]

Well, I just took a look at the course description on the Veritas site, and it looks like their composition classes meet for only three hours a week. Is that right? If so, that isn't, strictly speaking, a full credit's worth of work, anyway. And the Omnibus course, assuming I have the right one, is also only three hours per week? If so, and assuming that a traditional school-based class meets for an hour a day five days a week, doing both of these courses is actually only a little more than a single, typical English course.

 

Are you suggesting that homeschoolers should award credits depending on how many hours an online class meets every week?:confused:

 

My daughter's Latin class meets once a week for an hour. Some online classes have no live meetings at all. That doesn't mean the classes aren't worth a high school credit.

 

I don't think it can be concluded that the VP courses are "only a little more than a single, typical English course" because they only (and I think it's actually A LOT) each meet for three hours a week.

[Jenny in Florida]

Are you suggesting that homeschoolers should award credits depending on how many hours an online class meets every week?:confused:

 

No, of course I'm not suggesting that as a blanket rule.

 

In the discussion of what makes up an English credit, we were talking about the fact that high school "English" classes generally include both composition and literature. The poster to whom I responded asked what I thought was appropriate in the case of a student taking two classes, one for composition and one for literature. I took a look at the provider's website and noticed that each of the classes mentioned meets for fewer hours than I would normally expect to see a high school level class meet. With only six hours of class time per week -- and understanding that I don't know anything more about the content of these courses than can be gleaned from the brief descriptions on the website -- I speculated that the two combined might be more like what I would expect to see required for a single credit.

 

English as traditionally taught at the high school level is just a subject that tends to require more time, I think. But I don't necessarily believe that every hour a student spends on school must be reflected in credits.

 

Look, every time this subject comes up around here, I dip my toe in the water and voice my opinion. For my students, there would have to be extraordinary circumstances to justify awarding two credits each year for English. Based on my own experiences in high school and applying to college, as well as the research I've done recently and the conversations I've had picking the brains of my son's friends and their parents, I'm pretty convinced that one credit per year for all things English (grammar, composition, literatre, etc.) is the way to go.

 

I've also been up front in explaining that, despite my repeated comments on this subject, my son actually will earn 1.5 English-related credits next year. That is because we plan for him to do a creative writing class entirely separate from his regularly assigned English work. The case for that, to me, is clear, because this second course involves a whole curriculum and set of tasks that are not normally part of the traditional English credit. (Yes, I am aware that some classes assign a project or two along these lines, but those would be taking the place of more typical assignments. My son will do all of the regular stuff AND a full semester of creative writing.)

 

I also usually finish all of my comments by pointing out that, since there are many folks who vehemently disagree with me and have had success doing this the other way, there are obviously an assortment of viable options.

[Candid]

The colleges I've researched seem to indicate they want 4 English credits plus an American Lit credit and a Brit Lit credit.

 

So, what is an English 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 credit? I assume it is grammar review each year. Vocabulary each year? Writing each year (well, yes)? Additional literature such as World Lit?

 

I'm just making sure I'm checking all the boxes.......

 

Since you say your research has schools asking for this, do you have specific schools to show us? I know it would help me to help you if I looked at a specific school or two that listed this sort of requirement.

[Candid]

I don't have a lot of confidence that the hours in a class rule is very applicable to home schoolers.

 

I posted this in another thread on the topic:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3946276&postcount=25

 

I would always count credits by fairly looking to see if the course I was counting for adequately covered the material that needed to be covered.

[Jane Elliot]

I don't have a lot of confidence that the hours in a class rule is very applicable to home schoolers.

 

 

 

I don't either, for at least three reasons:

 

1. I've seen firsthand how classtime is used in public high schools. We're a lot more efficient at home. Besides that, our local high school is only open four days a week.

 

2. Parents don't hesitate to award dual enrollment credit for community college classes that meet only 3 hours a week (ETA: Furthermore, a college semester is only about 13 weeks, not 18 weeks like a typical high school semester.)

 

3. That's just not how homeschools and online classes work. The online Latin example is a perfect case in point. Should a student receive a full Latin I credit for completing half of Wheelocks even if his online class only met one hour a week? By all means!

 

I think hours spent *on a task* is *one* out of several useful measures. Hours spent *in a class* is rarely a useful measure.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Luann in ID

[Virginia Heather]

Well, that's what I was thinking, Luann! This past year, ds took Latin 1 w/ VPSA, & they worked through half the Wheelock's text. Class = 3 hrs/week, but then ds easily worked for at least 3-4 additional hours on homework exercises, translation projects, & vocab study. That's a lot of of quality study time-- surely worthy of a credit in my mind (had he been in high school). And to my understanding, the Potter's School courses generally meet once/week... I don't *think* many would argue the legitimacy of claiming a full course credit for successful completion of a TPs class, would they?

 

And please know... I don't mean to be argumentative-- I'm just struggling to navigate these waters--bit by tiny bit-- as we prepare for high school in another year! I greatly appreciate all the feedback you gals provide!!

[regentrude]

I think hours spent *on a task* is *one* out of several useful measures. Hours spent *in a class* is rarely a useful measure.

:iagree:

College classes are the perfect example. For her physics course, DD had three fifty-minute classes weekly for two semesters, so a total of 90 periods, yet she spent a total of 220 hours working.

And a hard class will have two hours of out-of-class work for every hour in class.

[HollyDay]

I get that we cannot base credits on hours. It is the content that has me confused. I am preparing dc for college. I am trying to give an engaging yet challenging course of study. When I talk to families IRL, I'm getting conflicting comments. One family just has their dc read for language arts. They are not particular about what they read as long as they read an hour or so a day. On the other hand, I'm looking at writing intensives, solid literature with indepth analysis, vocabulary, grammar review,etc.

 

I've noticed this in other subjects as well. There seems to be quite a wide range of ideas on what and how much content make up a credit.

[Kareni]

In the 9th grade, ds will likely be taking Composition 2 and Omnibus III Seconday online (via VPSA). When 2 specific, "english-y," full-credit courses are taken (such as these), how are they designated on the transcript to ensure that full credit is granted for the work completed? Do I come up with a creative name for the Omni course (to reflect it as modern literature) and then lump the Comp course into a generic "English 1" title (and then in the course description, list other components of our english studies such as grammar/vocab, etc). OR do I call the comp. class... "Composition 2" (just as VP labels it) and forget about the generic "English 1" designation? Thoughts??

 

 

Will VPSA provide a transcript of courses taken? If yes, what credit do they attribute to each class? I would use their class titles and assigned credit on my child's transcript and note where/how the class was taken.

 

From my daughter's transcript:

 

9th grade:

 

World Literature from 1700 to 2000 (0.5 credit, at home class)

Literature: Fantasy (0.5 credit, co-op class)

Literature: Greek Plays (0.25 credit, co-op class)

 

10th grade:

 

College Preparatory Essay Writing (0.5 credit, co-op class)

Literature: Middle English (0.25 credit, co-op class)

 

11th grade:

 

WR 121: Comp. - Intro. to Argument (0.5 credit, community college class)

WR 122: Comp. - Style and Argument (0.5 credit, community college class)

ENG 109: Survey of World Literature (0.5 credit, community college class)

 

12th grade:

 

...

 

I used different fonts on my daughter's transcript to indicate where each class was taken. As you can see, I chose more descriptive class titles rather than the generic English 9, 10, etc. I did submit course descriptions to each of the colleges to which my daughter applied.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Virginia Heather]

Kareni, thank you!!! This information is very, very helpful! I'll surely check w/ VPSA and go from there...

[snowbeltmom]

I've noticed this in other subjects as well. There seems to be quite a wide range of ideas on what and how much content make up a credit.

:iagree:

 

I really have to wonder just how much consideration, if any, college admission folks give to the amount of credits awarded for each class on the high school transcript.

 

Even if the traditional school setting, the number of credit hours assigned for the exact same class will vary from school to school. At my local public school, AP Physics B and AP Chemistry are both awarded 1.5 credits, while those students that complete AP Calc BC in one school year are awarded 2 math credits. A student at our neighboring public school would only be awarded 1 credit for each of the classes.

 

My guess is that since the college admissions folks will have no way to "know" anything about our homeschool, both grades and credits awarded for our homeschooled classes will be taken with a "grain of salt." SAT's, SAT II's, etc will attest to the "rigor" of our courses.

[Lori D.]

I get that we cannot base credits on hours. It is the content that has me confused. I am preparing dc for college. I am trying to give an engaging yet challenging course of study.

 

 

Holly, I have found that what is helpful to me is to compare various course contents to see what IS covered in a year of English, both with typical and college prep high schools and also homeschool materials. Then from there, I tailor what specific programs, books, materials, and resources I think are a good match for us to somewhat mimic a similar amount of material and types of topics covered.

 

So, for example, compare the course description from several more rigorous homeschool options:

- The Potter's School online courses

- Laurel Tree tutorials (online classes)

- Regina Coeli Academy (online courses)

- table of contents from the Excellence in Literature programs

- table of contents from the various Bob Jones University Press English curriculum

 

And then do a google search for things like: "high school English course description", "high school honors English syllabus", "high school English college prep", "high school English requirements" etc. These should bring up links to private and public school English requirements -- sometimes even schedules -- to see how much is covered, and what specifically is covered. Compare a number of these, as not all high schools have the same level of rigor. Here's a random one that came up for me when I did a search; and here are several course syllabi that are very detailed.

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Lori D.

[Kareni]

Kareni, thank you!!! This information is very, very helpful! I'll surely check w/ VPSA and go from there...

 

I'm glad to have been of help. If you (or anyone else) would like to see my daughter's transcript, simply send me a personal message with your email address.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[HollyDay]

Holly, I have found that what is helpful to me is to compare various course contents to see what IS covered in a year of English, both with typical and college prep high schools and also homeschool materials. Then from there, I tailor what specific programs, books, materials, and resources I think are a good match for us to somewhat mimic a similar amount of material and types of topics covered.

 

So, for example, compare the course description from several more rigorous homeschool options:

- The Potter's School online courses

- Laurel Tree tutorials (online classes)

- Regina Coeli Academy (online courses)

- table of contents from the Excellence in Literature programs

- table of contents from the various Bob Jones University Press English curriculum

 

And then do a google search for things like: "high school English course description", "high school honors English syllabus", "high school English college prep", "high school English requirements" etc. These should bring up links to private and public school English requirements -- sometimes even schedules -- to see how much is covered, and what specifically is covered. Compare a number of these, as not all high schools have the same level of rigor. Here's a random one that came up for me when I did a search; and here are several course syllabi that are very detailed.

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Yes, I was flipping through the table of contents for BJU english and their lit program, since they are different subjects. That has been helpful. It just sometimes boggles my mind when I see the vast diversity of what makes up a credit. I think I'm doing a lot then I see here what others are doing and think I'm not doing so much. Then I see somewhere else and think, golly, I'm doing too much.

[Lori D.]

I think I'm doing a lot then I see here what others are doing and think I'm not doing so much. Then I see somewhere else and think, golly, I'm doing too much.

 

 

When I hit that "flip-flop" point, that's when I decide I'm on target for us. :tongue_smilie:

[Jane Elliot]

When I hit that "flip-flop" point, that's when I decide I'm on target for us. :tongue_smilie:

 

I like this, Lori. :)

[HollyDay]

When I hit that "flip-flop" point, that's when I decide I'm on target for us. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol: