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MtnTeaching

Colleges will not accept 10th grade AP for credit?

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I think that it does bear repeating. It can be hard to hold all the different tests, what they're good for and when to take them in your head. Even if a college doesn't grant credit, or grants credit in an area where the student doesn't much need it, or the student will decline the actual credit (ex. AP test in a majors field); that might be the factor that gets the student noticed by admissions (or at least lays concerns to rest).

 

I'm still on the fence about how many APs I want my kids to take. The average for the flagship state school is 6-9 (IIRC, though I'm failing to rediscover where I thought I'd read this).

 

Human Geography, psychology and environmental science are APs that I've seen promoted to younger students.

 

I am definitely struggling with this as well. I also want ds to have the opportunity in high school to explore his passions. What does he really want to go to college for? I do not want to burn him out before he even gets to college!

 

I was looking at the Human Geography AP because I was told by a school counselor that this was a good "introductory" AP (ds will be in 10th next year). It is also a class my ds finds interesting.

 

I would like to have him in a classroom setting. (at least an interactive online classroom). I want interaction and discussion with other students, accountability and timelines set by someone other than me, and a class that challenges him and makes him THINK... but I want it to be a good experience.

 

The problem is the $650.00. Ouch! Does anyone know of other AP Human Geography classes online that are recommended, but hopefully not as expensive?

 

Also, does anyone know how rigorous the AP European History course is?

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Something to look at with Human Geography (as well as some other courses) is what sort of a class it is counted as. There were some schools I looked at that only counted it as a general education credit.

 

I decided that I'd prefer to go with straight history courses, with or without AP courses. YMMV.

 

 

This thread has really helped me to look more closely at the requirements by the colleges.

 

I checked the Univerity of Colorado at Boulder which would be considered as our state flagship university. They do accept the AP Human Geography and will give credit for the basic geography class.

 

Ds did World History with me this year and will probably be continuing through the summer. I pounded him in this class and added a ton of extra reading, documentaries, art history, timeline work, etc. What are the chances of him doing review and several AP study guides and taking the test next year? Has anyone done this? His textbook was not on the College Board list - does he still have a chance of passing the test?

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I know the sheer numbers of AP's does count, but the annoying thing about a statistic like that is that the # of AP's doesn't indicate the SCORE!

 

Supposedly our top state school sent a letter to someone in my town stating that the applicant was denied due to "too few" AP's, and that a competitive applicant should have 6. BUT --

 

Isn't 4 AP's with all 5's better than 6 or 12 with all 3's? If I were an ad con, I would be more concerned with the scores than with the sheer number!

 

:iagree:

 

As a PP said, calling 3 a 'passing score' is irksome. Some colleges give credit only for 5s now (and, as noted above, some colleges give NO credit, but do expect to see APs). Some foreign schools spell it out -- the Swiss unis need five APs with high scores (not sure if a 5 is absolutely necessary, but of course the more 5s the better!), and Oxford wants to see 5s, maybe a few 4s are OK (which corresponds to what they say they want to see on UK students' A-levels).

 

I wonder if they meant hours.

 

I hadn't thought of that, but no, I'm sure they meant individual APs ... these are kids who were accepted at Stanford AND Harvard, for example -- way outside the norm at their high schools, definite overachievers. What confuses me is that there's only a certain number of AP exams, and many of them are foreign language, so I was scratching my head wondering if these kids really took, say, AP German AND AP French AND AP Spanish AND AP Chinese ... I find it difficult to imagine an overachiever taking both AB and BC calculus, for example (wouldn't they just do BC?), but it's possible, especially if the kid is more humanities oriented (there just aren't that many science APs, and only two English ones, right? Lang and Lit? but quite a few history ones, and hum geo, and several govs and econs ...). Like I said, I'm friends with a mom whose daughter attended Harvard and claims she had 20-something APs, so I need to pin her down :)

 

Also, these are kids at public schools, which while OK schools, certainly aren't the caliber of, say, Thomas Jefferson in VA or Harker in CA ... so my gut feeling is that having 25 APs indicates serious brainpower, yes, but also serious lack of challenge in the high school. Surely a top-notch school -- or a homeschool!!! -- could meet these kids at their level and challenge them enough that they wouldn't need so many AP classes, kwim?

 

ETA: These are kids who applied 4-5 years ago, so I'm also wondering if they took, for example, French Lang *and* French Lit. I know some of the language APs have been eliminated recently. And if the kid is a native speaker of one of the foreign languages, that might knock off two right there, plus both English APs, plus a third language ... one of my son's friends from Mexico sailed through AP Spanish Lang with a 5, and this year is taking AP Spanish Lit (which will be much harder for him than Lang!), plus he's studying French, and he could attempt the English APs ... I guess that's potentially six APs right there, if there were still two French APs ... :confused:

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Leslie,

 

AP Euro is definitely a rigorous course; however, it sounds like it could be a very good fit for your son. It sounds like you provided a rigorous world history course at home this year. I would think that Human Geo. would be a step down in rigor from the world history your son did this year. AP Euro is a great next step, and I've heard great things about Mrs. Harrison's AP Euro class at PA Homeschoolers. A high score on AP Euro is definitely more impressive on a transcript than a 5 on human geography, and every college we are looking (e.g., Wake Forest, Davidson, UNC Chapel Hill) at gives credit for AP Euro. I've even seen some less highly ranked schools give 6 credits for a 5 on Euro.

 

My daughter followed a similar path...got pounded by a rigorous World History class with Scholars Online in 9th grade and then did AP Euro (with approved syllabus) at home in 10th and scored a 5 on the exam. 4 If we could do it over again, my daughter would have done Euro with PA Homeschoolers rather than self-study, mainly for the interaction with peers and the outside accountability & writing critique.

 

Nancy

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Also, does anyone know how rigorous the AP European History course is?

 

My impression is that it is very rigorous, and not a good choice for a first AP.

 

Ds did World History with me this year and will probably be continuing through the summer. I pounded him in this class and added a ton of extra reading, documentaries, art history, timeline work, etc. What are the chances of him doing review and several AP study guides and taking the test next year? Has anyone done this? His textbook was not on the College Board list - does he still have a chance of passing the test?

 

I would have him take a sample test and get a sense of how well he does, and how far he has to go.

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Isn't 4 AP's with all 5's better than 6 or 12 with all 3's? If I were an ad con, I would be more concerned with the scores than with the sheer number!

 

I've heard the same question asked at a few top colleges we've been to (group sessions):

 

"For admissions, do you want to see an AP class with a B/4 or a regular class with an A?"

 

Every.single.time it was answered the same way.

 

"We want to see the AP class with an A/5."

 

I doubt anyone with 6 or 12 and all 3s will get in to a competitive school. There's just too much competition out there.

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I found the Program Summary Report from last year, which reports the grade breakdown for each exam, interesting.

 

Human Geography has a large number of 9th graders taking the exam, which seems to confirm that it is an easier AP than others. European History seems to be offered to a lot of 10th graders as that's the largest group for that exam. And, for some reason, English Lang/Comp is taken by more 11th graders than any other age group.

 

I also found it interesting that 3,816 students younger than 9th grade took the AP Spanish exam last year.

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At the BASIS schools in AZ, students in 8th grade in 2012-2013 who wish to continue in the BASIS program as a 9th grader in 2013-2014 are required to take the World History AP exam. However, the course they take is not called AP World History. It is called World History 2 w/ AP exam. They have paths that begin AP classes in other subjects beginning in grade 9.

 

Late to the party.

Mandy

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I found the Program Summary Report from last year, which reports the grade breakdown for each exam, interesting.

 

Human Geography has a large number of 9th graders taking the exam, which seems to confirm that it is an easier AP than others. European History seems to be offered to a lot of 10th graders as that's the largest group for that exam. And, for some reason, English Lang/Comp is taken by more 11th graders than any other age group.

 

I also found it interesting that 3,816 students younger than 9th grade took the AP Spanish exam last year.

 

Thanks for the link to the summary! It was interesting to look over those numbers.

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I found the Program Summary Report from last year, which reports the grade breakdown for each exam, interesting.

 

Human Geography has a large number of 9th graders taking the exam, which seems to confirm that it is an easier AP than others. European History seems to be offered to a lot of 10th graders as that's the largest group for that exam. And, for some reason, English Lang/Comp is taken by more 11th graders than any other age group.

 

My guess is that the number distributions are driven by public high-school logistics. For example, 11th grade is when you take U.S. history ... and 12th grade is civics and econ. That seems to be etched in stone. That leaves 10th grade for Euro or world history (at our local ps you can do AP world history in 10th, but not earlier, and doing it later than 10th means doubling up with the required courses). That puts the easier Hum Geo in 9th for ps kids.

 

AP English Lang is an option at our local ps only for 11th-graders, and English Lit only for 12th grade. (This seems to be pretty universal.) Lang is considered more accessible than Lit -- the literary terms/ideas are a subset of those studied in Lit, and the works read are mostly nonfiction. My son will be taking Lang next year, but he may never do Lit :D.

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Eng Language does seem to be a natural lead in to the Lit course. Especially with the focus on shorter nonfiction works.

 

I think with the Lit test, you also benefit from the extra couple years worth of reading. That could give you a couple dozen more novels to draw upon for the free response questions.

 

I considered having my kids take APUSH at a younger grade, but decided to hold off. My concern is that so many 11th graders take that test that it does set a higher level expectation for the essay responses.

 

I think native speakers of some of the foreign languages may try to take the exam early in order to free up high school class time. Wasn't world language one of the only classes that College Board would allow to be labeled as an AP Course before 9th grade?

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I found the Program Summary Report from last year, which reports the grade breakdown for each exam, interesting.

 

Human Geography has a large number of 9th graders taking the exam, which seems to confirm that it is an easier AP than others. European History seems to be offered to a lot of 10th graders as that's the largest group for that exam. And, for some reason, English Lang/Comp is taken by more 11th graders than any other age group.

 

I also found it interesting that 3,816 students younger than 9th grade took the AP Spanish exam last year.

 

Is there a breakdown that might show exam results by grade level?

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Is there a breakdown that might show exam results by grade level?

 

OK, I found a cache of interesting reports (but not one with the above info).

 

This one is interesting, in that it addresses the question of how many AP exams are typical/normal.

 

Looks like 80% of students taking AP exams took 1-3 exams over a cummulative 4 year period ending in 2011. 4-5 exams were taken by 12.4% of the students. (The 20 APs mentioned earlier is possible but really, really unusual.)

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Here's where she's getting her intel:

 

http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/faq.html

 

Click on the link for "Appropriate Grade Levels for AP Courses."

 

Quote:

 

...the College Board believes that these [9th-10th-grade] students would be better served by academic coursework focusing on the building blocks necessary for later, successful enrollment in college-level courses. Many college admissions officers share this position, feeling that students should not be rushed into AP coursework....AP coursework completed in 9th grade is often not often deemed credible by the higher education community.

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I already got a reply that she was changing the info in her High School Prep Genius book, which she is currently editing to reflect the info from the college board policy.

 

Thanks to the pp who dug up the policy. I'm expecting that her future workshops will also reflect the more nuanced information.

 

I am late to checking back here but wanted to thank you, Sebastian, for sending the link to this gal. I'm glad she will no longer be spreading this false information.

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The Washington Post had two articles with some anecdotal information about scoring on the Geog and World Hist exams for 9th graders. Generally, the performance does not seem that strong. I think you might find a different distribution for some other exams such as Calc and Physics where probably only the best prepared students are taking them in the earlier grades.

 

 

"Nationally, only 5.6 percent of the students taking AP World History exams in 2009 were ninth-graders. Their results were not that great. Only 43 percent of those freshmen received passing scores -- 22 percent got 3s, 13 percent got 4s and 8 percent got 5s. " The portion of those scoring 1 is 32.percent.

Link to orig. article.

 

 

"College Board Vice President Trevor Packer, who oversees AP, alerted me to what has happened with AP Human Geography. It was designed as a 12th-grade college-level geography course, Packer said, but it “has been, in many cases, inappropriately scheduled in lieu of a standard ninth-grade geography course that has nowhere near the rigor or quality of a college-level geography course.†Forty-two percent of ninth-graders who take AP Human Geography get the worst grade on the exam, a 1 or the equivalent of a college F."

 

Full article

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I doubt anyone with 6 or 12 and all 3s will get in to a competitive school. There's just too much competition out there.

 

I totally agree. But I find it interesting that admissions counselors usually talk in terms of the NUMBER of AP exams, not the score received.

 

At our local public school, even the top students seem to receive 3's and 4's, not 5's, even though they seem to take 8-12 AP classes. So wouldn't those kids be better off with a few fewer AP classes and one or two MORE 5's?

 

I am mystified by the focus on the number of AP's and the lack of focus on the scores. Yes, the Ivy-bound kids will have all 5's, but what about the kids heading for the second-tier schools. Wouldn't they be better off with fewer AP's but higher scores?

 

I'm of the school of thought that my kids shouldn't take any exam that they don't have a pretty good chance of scoring well on, but apparently I'm in a serious minority! (My kids do a LOT of tests, but we go for the high score, not the sheer number of scores.)

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I'm of the school of thought that my kids shouldn't take any exam that they don't have a pretty good chance of scoring well on, but apparently I'm in a serious minority!

 

I'm in the minority with you. Since our school doesn't offer AP, I know plenty of kids who get into mid and lower level classes without them. I guess the difference would depend on whether a school offers them or not. If so, they're expected to take them, BUT I'm sure admissions at these schools knows not everyone who takes them due to "expectations" is going to actually do well in them.

 

I'm with you that I'd take fewer with 4/5 scores rather than multiple with lower/no scores.

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I am mystified by the focus on the number of AP's and the lack of focus on the scores. Yes, the Ivy-bound kids will have all 5's, but what about the kids heading for the second-tier schools. Wouldn't they be better off with fewer AP's but higher scores?

 

I'm of the school of thought that my kids shouldn't take any exam that they don't have a pretty good chance of scoring well on, but apparently I'm in a serious minority! (My kids do a LOT of tests, but we go for the high score, not the sheer number of scores.)

 

I agree that fewer tests with better scores is what we're shooting for here. I'd rather have a deep, thorough knowledge in a few subjects at this level than a very broad, shallow knowledge in a lot of areas.

 

The kids who are truly gifted and very suited to book-learning & test-taking can take 10+ APs and get all 5s, but that is definitely not the norm. I think that the ps kids are often "trapped" into having to take boat-loads of AP classes because they need that GPA boost that will lead to a higher class rank. When they apply to college, they will suffer if their GC can't check that "took the highest level of classes offered" box on the application forms, so they can't afford to cut back on the number of APs.

 

I actually think the most "sane" approach is taken by schools that limit the number of APs for all students to 2-3 per year. By doing this, they aren't forcing kids to take so many APs, and they aren't hurting them by "forcing" them to take a lower class rank if they want to limit APs.

 

Once the typical kid is signed up for a huge number of APs, even if the courses they are given are excellent (and many aren't), a lot of them probably just don't have the time to properly study so many AP subjects at once given their sports and other outside commitments. Then they have to take the AP exams to get credit for the courses, so it's not like they can skip taking the exam if they don't feel prepared. It's a vicious circle, I think -- hence documentaries like "Race to Nowhere" that describe all the pressure kids are under in school.

 

Situations like this make me thankful that I'm the GC for my kids.

 

Brenda

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... I think that the ps kids are often "trapped" into having to take boat-loads of AP classes because they need that GPA boost that will lead to a higher class rank. When they apply to college, they will suffer if their GC can't check that "took the highest level of classes offered" box on the application forms, so they can't afford to cut back on the number of APs.

 

I actually think the most "sane" approach is taken by schools that limit the number of APs for all students to 2-3 per year. By doing this, they aren't forcing kids to take so many APs, and they aren't hurting them by "forcing" them to take a lower class rank if they want to limit APs.

 

Once the typical kid is signed up for a huge number of APs, even if the courses they are given are excellent (and many aren't), a lot of them probably just don't have the time to properly study so many AP subjects at once given their sports and other outside commitments. Then they have to take the AP exams to get credit for the courses, so it's not like they can skip taking the exam if they don't feel prepared. It's a vicious circle, I think -- hence documentaries like "Race to Nowhere" that describe all the pressure kids are under in school.

 

Situations like this make me thankful that I'm the GC for my kids.

 

Brenda

:iagree:

 

A friend was just lamenting how her son was so stressed out over his upcoming AP exams because after looking at the test prep books, he realized that his classes didn't cover a lot of the material on the exams. She told him that colleges don't care what his scores are, they only care that he took the AP class.:confused:

 

Maybe if the College Board required that in order to use the AP designation on a student's transcript, the student needed to obtain at least a "3" on the AP exam, the quality/rigor of the class would increase. As it is now, it is common for kids at my p.s. to get an "A" in the AP class, but a "1" on the actual AP exam.

 

It is easy to take AP classes that don't cover all the material actually tested - a class like that wouldn't require much time at all. This is how the kids at my p.s. are able to take a boatload of "AP" classes in addition to all the outside activities.

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I apologize for not responding for a few days. The flu has hit our household.:( This has been a VERY informative thread. Thank you to everyone who has responded.

 

My ds is just finishing up his 9th grade year and I have been very torn over the "success" of the year. I just pounded the poor kid and now I am not sure how I feel about the outcome.

 

I want him prepared for college. I want him to get into a good college. BUT, I want him to have the basics down cold. I also want him to have the opportunity to find his passion. He is 15yo! I want him to experience different things, meet different and diverse people, and to develop a sense of purpose for his life.

 

How does a high school student do this if he is taking so many AP classes? I was talking to dh about this. In college, I do not believe I EVER took the amount of classes that would add up to the time it would take as a high schooler to complete 4 or 5 AP classes along with all of the other requiremenst of high school. I certainly cannot see how I would have been able to put the effort into those classes to get an "A" in all of them and I did very well in high school and college.

 

I know that ds would be capable of the work, but do I want to do that to him? I also want a child who will know how to balance his life. On the other hand, I do not want to hurt his chances at getting into a good school.

 

The comments about the lower amount of APs with more time to focus on getting A/5s really hit home with me. This shows mastery of the subject, the ability to handle college level work, time to work on other areas that may not be as strong, and the ability to balance a life.

 

(On another note, I was stunned by the number of low scores on the AP tests. It was my assumption that only the top, motivated students in high school would be steered toward the AP classes. I guess I was wrong.)

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The comments about the lower amount of APs with more time to focus on getting A/5s really hit home with me. This shows mastery of the subject, the ability to handle college level work, time to work on other areas that may not be as strong, and the ability to balance a life.

 

 

 

Perhaps it's because we are homeschooling and from a school district where APs don't exist, but this approach worked just fine for middle son. I think homeschoolers might have an edge in this regard... Yes, take some (and do well) to show mastery, but then show a balance in life.

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I heard a local PS school teacher talking about how her school actively encouraged students to take the AP exam even if they were completely unprepared--not because taking the AP class helped the students' chances of college admission but because schools get a ranking (by No Child Left Behind?) for how many kids take AP.

 

On top of that, public schools start looking like prep schools and can compete better in districts that allow students to choose their schools.

 

In order to get their exam-taker numbers up, many schools allow students taking APs to exempt their exams. Since the scores won't come in before graduation, seniors who know they aren't prepared often sleep through the exams. That way they don't have to study for a final. Schools don't care since the number of kids taking the exam is the magic number they are looking for.

 

Poor scores DO hurt teachers in many districts. If students are mad at some hard teacher who requires them to do AP-level work, they can "get" the teacher by throwing the exam.

 

The College Board does not allow schools to limit AP classes to honors students or gifted and talented students. Although I have not read the rules myself, my understanding is that many schools interpret the rules to mean they can't even have prerequisites or require teacher recommendations.

 

The whole system is so complicated....

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I heard a local PS school teacher talking about how her school actively encouraged students to take the AP exam even if they were completely unprepared--not because taking the AP class helped the students' chances of college admission but because schools get a ranking (by No Child Left Behind?) for how many kids take AP.

 

On top of that, public schools start looking like prep schools and can compete better in districts that allow students to choose their schools.

 

In order to get their exam-taker numbers up, many schools allow students taking APs to exempt their exams. Since the scores won't come in before graduation, seniors who know they aren't prepared often sleep through the exams. That way they don't have to study for a final. Schools don't care since the number of kids taking the exam is the magic number they are looking for.

 

Poor scores DO hurt teachers in many districts. If students are mad at some hard teacher who requires them to do AP-level work, they can "get" the teacher by throwing the exam.

 

The College Board does not allow schools to limit AP classes to honors students or gifted and talented students. Although I have not read the rules myself, my understanding is that many schools interpret the rules to mean they can't even have prerequisites or require teacher recommendations.

 

The whole system is so complicated....

 

Stunning, infuriating, and sad

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Kids in our ps take a lot of AP's because:

 

1. The guidance counselor will not mark the box of "most difficult" classes if your schedule isn't loaded with AP's.

 

2. The principal gets extra $$ for students taking AP's, so he *strongly encourages* ( more like "bullies") kids into taking them.

 

3. Kids are also seldom allowed to drop an AP if it is not a good fit for them. The principal won't allow it without a huge fight from the parents.

 

4. On top of this, the school does not even weight classes. AP Bio is the same as regular bio in terms of GPA.

 

5. Her senior year, my dd didn't take any AP tests, even though she took multiple AP classes. She probably would have scored 4 or 5 on these tests because they were subjects that she is very good in. However, to *stick it to the administration* she refused to take the test. I know she could have earned more elective credits from her college, but I was proud of her to stand up to the AP madness at our public school.

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I heard a local PS school teacher talking about how her school actively encouraged students to take the AP exam even if they were completely unprepared--not because taking the AP class helped the students' chances of college admission but because schools get a ranking (by No Child Left Behind?) for how many kids take AP.

 

It's the Newsweek Challenge and Jay Mathews' Washington Post list. They've changed their methodology a bit, but initially, the calculation of the "best" high schools was this: Take the # of AP exams given by a school to its student body and divide by the number of seniors. The more exams a school had its students take, the higher they rose on the list.

 

Now...all those students could've gotten 1s, of course.

 

This is precisely a problem I've encountered as a PS teacher. Administration packs the AP courses as if they're in a sardine factory. The teacher can't teach at the AP level because the students aren't prepared. The lower-level teachers are resentful of being told this, even if it's true (actually, IME, especially if it's true), and the cycle begins again. If the AP teacher teaches and grades appropriately for the rigor of the material on the test, she'd better have the administration at her back or else there will be a tsunami of parental complaints.

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I totally agree. But I find it interesting that admissions counselors usually talk in terms of the NUMBER of AP exams, not the score received.

 

This has been my limited experience with admissions as well. UF head of admissions said their office looks only at the AP course grade, not the exam score. The first is for admissions purposes, the latter for college credit purposes.

 

Lisa

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Just agreeing that you need to check with each specific college on its policy. My dd's college changed its AP policy during her last year of high school, and now only gives credit for a score of a 5. So it kind of irks me when people refer to a "3" or higher as "passing" - for my dd's college, a 3 is the same as a 1.:glare:

 

I'd like to know why a score of 3 is called a "passing score" by so many people in the education business. One of the review books that we borrowed from the library established a strategy for getting a 3--as though that was the goal.

 

More colleges seem to have raised the bar to at least a 4--many a 5. Yet the kids and teachers in my part of the world still call a 3 a "passing score". :confused:

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This has been my limited experience with admissions as well. UF head of admissions said their office looks only at the AP course grade, not the exam score. The first is for admissions purposes, the latter for college credit purposes.

 

Lisa

 

I wonder if this is due to the fact that senior AP scores are not known until after students have been accepted at their future colleges.

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Thanking God yet again that we're fortunate enough to homeschool. What an informative thread! I hadn't looked at many of those College Board reports until reading this today. I can't believe how many students are taking exams they don't seem to be prepared for, and probably don't wish to take. Racing to "Nowhere," indeed. Sleeping during exams. Schools getting resources for playing the system but not generating real outcomes. Wow. Bet most of those students didn't have to pay $87 plus a proctoring fee.

 

Clearly, AP might be a different beast if my daughters attended school (the "AP madness" post says it all) -- but in our little world, AP has been great, so I'm a fan.

 

With the help of the College Board website and some work and research this year, I was able to design a do-able history course that met high standards; helped my daughter prepare for a difficult exam (including the cultural experience); and transitioned us from essentially un-schooling to a more rigorous, but hopefully still healthy, lifestyle. College Board's online EDG was a great resource for exchanging ideas with other teachers. My oldest DD will be doing several more AP courses -- probably about 7 -- because it works well for us.

 

But wow, getting a view of the Big Picture certainly has been educational. Yuck.

 

Tia

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This has been my limited experience with admissions as well. UF head of admissions said their office looks only at the AP course grade, not the exam score. The first is for admissions purposes, the latter for college credit purposes.

 

Lisa

 

This is a big part of the problem. Colleges should care about the score. Too many classes are labeled "AP" but are not college level classes. It is easy to take 6 "AP" classes when the level of work required is so low . I could not imagine any student being able to take 6 AP classes at once from PA Homeschoolers - the workload would be too intense.

 

All AP classes are not created equal. The AP scores are the only way to discern the real APs from all of the imposters.

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This is a big part of the problem. Colleges should care about the score. Too many classes are labeled "AP" but are not college level classes. It is easy to take 6 "AP" classes when the level of work required is so low . I could not imagine any student being able to take 6 AP classes at once from PA Homeschoolers - the workload would be too intense.

 

All AP classes are not created equal. The AP scores are the only way to discern the real APs from all of the imposters.

 

FWIW, as of a few years back, in order to be called "AP" a school has to run their syllabus past the AP folks for approval in advance. I think this was in part an effort to make sure that courses called AP gave the kids a reasonable chance at the exam, weeding out those courses that clearly didn't cut it.

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FWIW, as of a few years back, in order to be called "AP" a school has to run their syllabus past the AP folks for approval in advance. I think this was in part an effort to make sure that courses called AP gave the kids a reasonable chance at the exam, weeding out those courses that clearly didn't cut it.

Getting the syllabus approved is a start, but at least at my p.s., many times the class does not actually have time to study all of the topics on the syllabus. So these classes look like AP level on paper, but the reality is much different.

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FWIW, as of a few years back, in order to be called "AP" a school has to run their syllabus past the AP folks for approval in advance. I think this was in part an effort to make sure that courses called AP gave the kids a reasonable chance at the exam, weeding out those courses that clearly didn't cut it.

 

But as all of us know, having a syllabus doesn't mean that it is followed or that the students actually did the work. Not only do you have to have the class time (without distraction from snow days, school assemblies, bomb threats, sports team absences, etc) but the students have to do the readings and written work as well as participate in class.

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Getting the syllabus approved is a start, but at least at my p.s., many times the class does not actually have time to study all of the topics on the syllabus. So these classes look like AP level on paper, but the reality is much different.

 

But as all of us know, having a syllabus doesn't mean that it is followed or that the students actually did the work. Not only do you have to have the class time (without distraction from snow days, school assemblies, bomb threats, sports team absences, etc) but the students have to do the readings and written work as well as participate in class.

 

Of course. ;)

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I'd like to know why a score of 3 is called a "passing score" by so many people in the education business. One of the review books that we borrowed from the library established a strategy for getting a 3--as though that was the goal.

 

More colleges seem to have raised the bar to at least a 4--many a 5. Yet the kids and teachers in my part of the world still call a 3 a "passing score". :confused:

 

:iagree: I wish the term "passing score" weren't even used in conjunction with the APs as clearly each school has its own policy of what makes a score credit worthy.:glare:

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A 5 is what we aim for with an AP test. I can't imagine doing otherwise.

 

REMEMBER, even if colleges accept "just" courses for a ps student doesn't mean they won't want to see scores (from junior year or earlier) from hs students IF you want to prove to the adcons that their academics are "worthy."

 

Whether right or wrong, homeschoolers often have to prove academic worthiness differently than their ps peers (where they use class rank as well as transcripts, etc). Otherwise, anyone can put "AP" on their transcript/application (legally, no, but who's going to catch it?). A good score shows you learned the material enough to do well on the test even if your course isn't called "AP" (since there's still that legal deal).

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REMEMBER, even if colleges accept "just" courses for a ps student doesn't mean they won't want to see scores (from junior year or earlier) from hs students IF you want to prove to the adcons that their academics are "worthy."

 

Whether right or wrong, homeschoolers often have to prove academic worthiness differently than their ps peers (where they use class rank as well as transcripts, etc). Otherwise, anyone can put "AP" on their transcript/application (legally, no, but who's going to catch it?). A good score shows you learned the material enough to do well on the test even if your course isn't called "AP" (since there's still that legal deal).

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

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A 5 is what we aim for with an AP test. I can't imagine doing otherwise.

 

REMEMBER, even if colleges accept "just" courses for a ps student doesn't mean they won't want to see scores (from junior year or earlier) from hs students IF you want to prove to the adcons that their academics are "worthy."

 

Whether right or wrong, homeschoolers often have to prove academic worthiness differently than their ps peers (where they use class rank as well as transcripts, etc). Otherwise, anyone can put "AP" on their transcript/application (legally, no, but who's going to catch it?). A good score shows you learned the material enough to do well on the test even if your course isn't called "AP" (since there's still that legal deal).

 

This is one reason why I do want my kids to take at least a couple AP exams junior year or earlier. I want the folks who are reviewing their transcript to see that they have in fact done work that is high level.

 

I'm thinking that this will be especially important to document language ability, facility with math and/or science or to show that the work they have done at home with English or history is of a high calibre. (That asumes of course that we do manage to achieve those levels. Having just spent 90 minutes comprehending the sample problems of today's math lesson there are days I do despair.)

 

If we wait to tackle AP until senior year, they may still be useful for credits, but not for admissions, unless we're doing a known course that assigns grades (or I do the syllabus review), simply because exam results won't be available.

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This is one reason why I do want my kids to take at least a couple AP exams junior year or earlier. I want the folks who are reviewing their transcript to see that they have in fact done work that is high level.

 

I'm thinking that this will be especially important to document language ability, facility with math and/or science or to show that the work they have done at home with English or history is of a high calibre. (That asumes of course that we do manage to achieve those levels. Having just spent 90 minutes comprehending the sample problems of today's math lesson there are days I do despair.)

 

If we wait to tackle AP until senior year, they may still be useful for credits, but not for admissions, unless we're doing a known course that assigns grades (or I do the syllabus review), simply because exam results won't be available.

 

Due to this thread, I just signed my 10th grade ds up for his first AP class next year with PA Homeschoolers (only doing one next year). He needs to understand what is expected of him before he hits junior year. It sounds as if junior year is a crazy one.

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Due to this thread, I just signed my 10th grade ds up for his first AP class next year with PA Homeschoolers (only doing one next year). He needs to understand what is expected of him before he hits junior year. It sounds as if junior year is a crazy one.

 

:iagree:

 

We called junior year the year of testing - starting with the PSAT in the fall, the student is likely to take SATs, SAT subject tests, APs and ACT in junior year. Homeschooling is a huge plus if for no other reason than the flexibility it provides - the student can rearrange more flexible aspects of his schedule during those busy test times.

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