Is this okay for a school to do?

[derbygirl]

Hi everyone,

 

I've homeschooled my kids since day one so I have had no dealings personally with the school system since I was a student. I would love some insight.

 

Here is the background. I apologize for for the lack of details but I wasn't a witness and I want to respect privacy but here goes. A wonderful kid I know very well (upper elementary school) was being disruptive in class. It was not his fault . He has a medical condition which manifests itself into appearing like a behavioral issue. His regular teacher had failed to mention it to the substitute teacher.

 

He was punishment was by putting him in an empty classroom with the lights out. Sounds like it was about 20 minutes. This horrifies me. Not just that he was punished once again for something that was not his fault, but the type of punishment itself. Is this allowed? Am I out of touch? This happened in Canada if that makes any difference.

[jennsmile]

NO! DH is a VP in an elementary school. That would not be allowed in his school. Sent to see the VP yes, depending on the the situation either in school supension or call a parent to have them picked up. But the office would know the kids history and deal with the child in the best way possible.

[Little Nyssa]

As far as I know, kids at our local school sometimes get a "time out" by sitting in the hall by themselves at a table.

To me it makes a difference if it was an empty classroom that had plenty of daylight even with the electric lights off, or if it was like a dark closet, which would not be OK!

[Kathryn]

Question: were there windows or emergency lights so at the room was darkened but not pitch black? Or was he in complete darkness?

[clarkacademy]

I am in no way sticking up for the public school, anyone who knows me knows how much I detest it. Rest assure if my kid was in a dark room alone I would raise holy H E double hockey sticks. That being said what is the school suppose to do? Better yet what are the teachers suppose to do? There are too many kids with behavior problems for them to deal with them all one at a time. My son has ADHD and tourettes, my other has autism, severe OCD, as well as frontal loab seizures.

 

It has taken alot of work but they can behave. If the child is this high maitenence why would he be in a regular classroom disrupting a room full of students instead of a special needs room?

[derbygirl]

I think the lighting would be pretty low. Even if the window coverings were open, the weather has been really overcast.

[SKL]

If the room had windows so it wasn't really "dark," this might have been done to help calm him down. Flourescent lights make some people nervous.

 

Sorry to hear that the substitute was not kept informed of the child's issue.

[Kathryn]

If the room had windows so it wasn't really "dark," this might have been done to help calm him down. Flourescent lights make some people nervous.

 

Sorry to hear that the substitute was not kept informed of the child's issue.

 

Agree. I don't see a problem with putting him in a darkened room with windows.

[myfunnybunch]

If the room had windows so it wasn't really "dark," this might have been done to help calm him down. Flourescent lights make some people nervous.

 

I agree. Unless it was pitch black in there, it was likely intended as a calming/cooling off strategy. Flourescent lights have a hum and a flicker that can be irritating or overstimulating for some children.

 

Really, the sub should have been informed of the strategies the child's teacher had worked out to deal with behavior flare-ups.

 

Cat

[BigMamaBird]

I remember teachers using the darkened room tactic when I was in Elementary School. Occasionally my whole class would get disruptive so the teacher made us put our heads down on the desks and turned off the lights. Same goes for detention (which I did get once), the kids in detention missed out on recess and had to spend the time in a darkened room with our heads down.

 

Now, if it were a single child who was old enough not to be afraid of being alone in a dim room, I can see it as a useful tool for the kid to regroup and calm down. You mentioned the child was upper elementary, so maybe he was old enough. I would have a problem if the child were younger or afraid of the situation. But I know I often need to chill out sometimes when the kids get me in a tizzy, so I'll go in a dark room and take a minute or two to relax.

 

I guess it would depend on the individual child.

[derbygirl]

Thank you for talking me down hive. I can be such a rabid dog when someone I care about is having a hard time. All your responses are appreciated.:)

[Night Elf]

I'm more surprised that he was unsupervised for 20 minutes. I assumed kids were near adults at all times. I do know that teachers can't keep their eyes on every student for every minute. I've been in classrooms as a teaching assistant. But purposefully putting a child, especially one having some behavioral problems, in a classroom alone seems like asking for trouble.

[momma2three]

I used to be a sub, and we were never informed about issues children might be having, or IEPs. Those are confidential matters, and substitute teachers aren't let into it. Which didn't make my job any easier, let me tell you. It's hard enough controlling a classroom of kids you've never seen before, and have limited power over (I couldn't give grades or call parents or arrange conferences... and don't think kids don't realize that!), and are oftentimes conspiring to "get" you, without even knowing the appropriate expectations to have for each child.

 

There is no way I would have left a child unsupervised for 20 minutes, though. If there was a student I really thought I couldn't control, and/or was creating a situation where other students were being affected, then I'd send the student to the principle.

[Farrar]

As it's still legal in some districts to administer corporal punishment, I'm thinking that while this obviously isn't a great punishment and could be bad for some kids, that it is allowable - though it's possible that it will be against district policy in some way.

 

It's certainly not the most shocking punishment or abuse I've heard about in a school though... even this week. Just another reason to homeschool.

[swellmomma]

I used to be a sub, and we were never informed about issues children might be having, or IEPs. Those are confidential matters, and substitute teachers aren't let into it. Which didn't make my job any easier, let me tell you. It's hard enough controlling a classroom of kids you've never seen before, and have limited power over (I couldn't give grades or call parents or arrange conferences... and don't think kids don't realize that!), and are oftentimes conspiring to "get" you, without even knowing the appropriate expectations to have for each child.

 

There is no way I would have left a child unsupervised for 20 minutes, though. If there was a student I really thought I couldn't control, and/or was creating a situation where other students were being affected, then I'd send the student to the principle.

 

When ds13 was 5 in Kindy the sub he had was given a folder for each special needs kid in the class. It didn't go fully into specifics but did give basics, so ds's said he was a runner etc. Well sub never read the files (she admitted to this, said she didn't see the need). Ds vanished for 2 hours and no one noticed. I agree confidentiality reasons subs cannot be given a child's full history but a note for the sub saying johnny has outbursts of such and such a type on occasion and we handle it by xyz. Or suzy likes to run away so be sure to keep an extra eye. THose things are not breaching confidentiality but still alert a sub to concerns that may present in class.

[derbygirl]

I had no idea subs would not be privy to that information. How can you teach under those conditions? I am going back into my little homeschooling bubble and locking the door.

[momma2three]

Unless it is a long term assignment, a sub is mostly a babysitter. I remember having subs and we didn't even do the usual assignments. Teachers would just leave some dumb busy work to get us through the day.

 

Yeah, pretty much. :D

 

It might depend on the laws of the state. But I was NEVER told which kids had any sort of special needs.

 

Being a sub is nice in that it's very flexible, and you're only really working for 6 hours and no grading or anything. But it's really not the most relaxing job in the universe. :lol:

[angela in ohio]

It IS the norm for a sub to be notified of the special needs of students in the class they are teaching. (Dh works with several school districts, has subbed, has student taught, taught special ed for years, etc.) That is not confidential info to a paid employee of the school district (the sub) anymore than it would be to tell the teacher, school psychologist, etc. Whether a sub is a babysitter or a real teacher depends on the school district, the teacher, and the sub. There is no way to generalize.

 

If a classroom doesn't have any students with actual IEPs, just behavioral issues, the sub wouldn't be told anything. But they would have to be told the details of an IEP, because it must be followed by law.

 

I'm assuming the reason you know about this is that the parent is upset about it. So my first reaction - that this was part of his IEP for his misbehavior - is probably off. It is common for students to get some sort of "time out", and it is for their benefit. A darkened, quiet room can be a saving grace to a student who is escalating a situation. Without knowing more, we have no idea what his capabilities are. Having a special need or a medical condition is not a "free pass": he will still have some parameters, and he may have gone outside of those. We don't really know the situation. All that aside, I don't personally think sitting alone for 20 minutes with the lights out is a big deal. (It sounds like heaven to me right now, but that's another story! :D) Like others, sitting in the dark with our heads down was the usual way to calm the class down when I was in school.

Edited May 1, 2012 by angela in ohio