Teaching the Classics ~ is that enough for literature?

[Ann.without.an.e]

Let's pretend I thoroughly learn the methods in Teaching the Classics. Then, dd and I read several good selections of classical literature each year and use the literary analysis described. Is that sufficient? DD already loves classics. She just finished the Scarlet Pimpernel series and is reading Horatio Hornblower now (just for fun, not for school). I feel like having an entire literature program on top of that is redundant. Any thoughts? Advice? Input?

 

Thanks

[Testimony]

I want to know. Inquiring minds want to know...

:bigear:

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[VA6336]

Teaching the Classics is a how-to lead Socratic discussions about literature guide...I don't know that I would call it a high school level literature course. You could definitely use it as your discussion method for literature that she's reading in other subjects and for pleasure, though. I suppose you could call it a "literary analysis" class where it doesn't matter what she's reading, just how she's analyzing it. Isn't high school lit class usually a survey of a particular time period/geographical location/type of literature? So for example, a high school lit class would be a survey of British literature up to a certain year with Socratic discussion being the main method of analysis. I don't know, clearly my kids aren't there yet. I own the dvds, though, and have gone through it a few times myself. I'll be interested to hear other responses, too.

[Lori D.]

Teaching the Classics is a how-to lead Socratic discussions about literature guide...I don't know that I would call it a high school level literature course. You could definitely use it as your discussion method...

 

 

Agreeing with VA on this point (quoted above). A high school Literature course would, in addition to discussion, include:

 

Research or background information

Learn a little something about the author, the times the work was written in, and the times the work was set in, and the overall body of the author's work and how this particular work fits into the author's body of work.

 

Learn about genres and literary movements

Learning about genre or literary movements help to better understand the work and go deeper in analysis and discussion -- for example, read about the genre of magical realism before reading Marquez' One Hundred Years of Solitude; find out about Romanticism when tackling poems by Byron or the novel Frankenstein; read about the Gothic movement and Victorian Literature before diving into one of the Bronte's works; etc. This is important, because it allows you to go deeper in your discussions and analysis -- within a work, but also to be able to compare two or more works that are, say, in that "Lost Generation" of ex-patriot American authors, or are works of Sci-Fi genre, separated by 25 years of time -- it allows you to compare how a genre evolves over time, or how different authors tried to address the same issue of their time in different ways, or what themes were important to a specific author and keep popping up in slightly different ways from work to work to work by that author. For a little more of what I mean here, check out the great book discussions in these two past threads: Jane Eyre and boys; Sir Gawain and the Green Knight -- need input please.

 

Written work

Does not have to be the same type of assignment, or need to be a lengthy assignment for every single work, but it is extremely important to do some written responses to the Literature -- reader response paragraph; longer critical analysis essay; or even the occasional "activity or project", such as a creative writing "spin-off", or writing a poem in the similar format/structure. This is what the rhetorical stage is all about -- learning to develop the ability to express what you discovered through your analysis. Also, it is critical to be comfortable with this type of writing by the end of high school, as this is largely the kind of writing the student will need to be able to do -- in much longer papers -- for college. Not to mention the need to be able to go deep in analysis with specific examples of support from the work for classroom discussion. Check out this recent Washington Post article linked by jamajo to get a feel for the depth of critical thinking and analysis needed for high end college level courses).

 

OPTIONAL: Vocabulary

Some people also use the Literature to work on Vocabulary, so you may want to include some Vocabulary work using words from the work being read as part of your Literature course.

 

 

We used literature guides to help with additional discussion questions, exercise suggestions, and writing assignment ideas -- to "work with" the Literature. Some guides also include vocabulary work, or "additional activity" ideas and suggestions. Guides you may find helpful:

 

- Sparknotes (free online guides; and, a "No Fear Shakespeare" section, with side-by-side translations of original text and modern translation)

- Cliff's Notes (secular; free online guides)

- Glencoe Literature Library (secular; free online guides)

- Schmoop (secular; free online guides)

- Discovering Literature: challenger level (secular; for a fee guides from Garlic Press publishers)

- Portals to Literature (secular; for a fee guides)

- a few of the high school level Progeny Press guides (Christian; for a fee)

- a few of The Great Books guides (for a fee; from a worldview perspective rather than literary analysis perspective)

- Parallel Shakespeare materials

- http://rainbowresource.com/product/sku/002506/a68f07fded31b476b5eb7fea

- Teaching Company: Great Courses (audio or video lecture series), such as the Elizabeth Vandiver series on The Iliad and The Odyssey, or others that cover specific time periods and a number of authors

- Wikipedia articles on specific authors, specific works, literary genres, movements, etc.

 

 

Finally, while I think that is *wonderful* that DD is enjoying books like The Scarlet Pimpernel and Horatio Hornblower -- gently, they are more simple works (mostly about the plot and well-written description) with most of what there is to be found "on the surface". Because they are great for exposure to vocabulary and older sentence structure and are great practice for reading the older Classics, I would suggest letting DD enjoy those types of works as fun reading, or as just the occasional lighter Literature selection, and choose more complex, multi-layered works to do together for the actual Literature credit -- works like Jane Eyre, The Metamorphosis, Great Expectations, plays by Shakespeare, The Iliad, Beowulf, The Great Gatsby, Things Fall Apart, Crime and Punishment, etc. (Obviously, you wouldn't want to start out high school with this list -- you'll want to work your way up, with easier reads in 9th grade, and getting to the most difficult works in 12th grade. ;))

 

In addition, I suggest making the most of the Literature credit by making sure to cover various types of Literature (novels, novellas, short stories, poems, plays, essays, biographies), different genres, different time periods, and authors from different continents -- works that will prepare your student for college level Literature (literary analysis and writing critical analysis essays).

 

 

For IDEAS of the kinds of works colleges like to see students to be familiar with or to have wrestled with:

- College Board's 101 Books to Read Before College

- this list approved by The Center for Applied Research in Education

- the Arrowhead Library's College-Bound Reading List.

 

 

Enjoy your high school Literature adventures together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Lori D.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thank you for the great information Lori D.

To clarify (about Horatio Hornblower and Scarlet Pimpernel), dd is only in the 7th grade. She has read most of the Jane Austen books and many other classics as well, for fun reading. I haven't really pushed her into the deeper works yet. I am doing a huge search right now to see exactly how to go about that.

 

Up until now, we have used BJU Press Literature. I like it, but I also know she would enjoy whole classic novels to make up the greater majority of her literature. I am tempted to stick with BJU Press though because I am less likely to miss something or fail her somehow. I feel extremely intimidated by the upper grades.

[Penny from Tenny]

Here is what we are going to be using with Teaching the Classics at someone else's recommendation on this board - I thought this looked terrific and have already ordered everything needed:

 

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/files/SLA-E%20Teacher%20Sample.pdf (ETA: this is the sample - order or download here: http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/sla-e )

 

And this would be enough for a full credit as well. As always,"tweak" away if you feel the need! ;)

 

Blessings,

Penny

Edited May 2, 2012 by Penny from Tenny
added a link

[Ann.without.an.e]

Here is what we are going to be using with Teaching the Classics at someone else's recommendation on this board - I thought this looked terrific and have already ordered everything needed:

 

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/files/SLA-E%20Teacher%20Sample.pdf (ETA: this is the sample - order or download here: http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/sla-e )

 

And this would be enough for a full credit as well. As always,"tweak" away if you feel the need! ;)

 

Blessings,

Penny

 

 

Thank you Penny. In your opinion, for what grades is this material appropriate?

 

:)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I also have another question Penny (or whoever can help)...

 

If I purchase the syllabus, is the teacher's guide still necessary?

 

thanks

[Penny from Tenny]

Sorry. I'm just now getting back to the computer - company coming!

I bought it to use with my 9th grader, but I believe the only grade level it gave was "highschool". I just wanted him to have it as a foundation for the books he would read throughout his highschool years. ETA: I would go with seekinghim45's advice above because I haven't received my order yet. Opinionwise though, I always like to have the TM for something like this because it isn't something I feel competent to teach.

HTH,

Penny

Edited May 2, 2012 by Penny from Tenny
add

[Lori D.]

Up until now, we have used BJU Press Literature. I like it, but I also know she would enjoy whole classic novels to make up the greater majority of her literature. I am tempted to stick with BJU Press though because I am less likely to miss something or fail her somehow. I feel extremely intimidated by the upper grades.

 

 

Ah, I didn't realize you were using a literature program, or might be interested in using one in the future! I got the impression you were planning to just select works and use the Socratic method from Teaching the Classics to just discuss...

 

In that case, I agree with the other posters that you might want to look at Windows to the World. Great intro into Literature. It teaches -- and has you practice -- annotation; and then specific, detailed steps of how to write a literary analysis essay (using your annotations to help you find supporting details/examples in the work read); and then covers about 8-9 literary elements. There are exercises, plus longer writing assignment ideas, and the teacher book has quite a bit of hand-holding in it. It is a one-semester high school course (for grades 9-12), but could be used by your advanced reader as a one-year program in grade 8.

 

Also, if you like BJUP Literature, and it is working for you, there's a lot of good stuff in it, so you might consider sticking with it and instead of excerpts, just go ahead and read the full works that are covered. Just a thought!

 

If your DD enjoys the Lord of the Rings trilogy, then I highly recommend considering doing the Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings year-long study in 8th grade as a wonderful, gentle intro into literary analysis. You'll learn lots of literary terms, enjoy the great analysis on each chapter, there are good discussion questions, and there are 12 additional units which are great supplemental material to Literature -- 4 of the units analyze excerpts from other works (Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, poetry; etc.); 1 unit covers the 11 conventions of an epic (i.e. -- the 11 things that occur in most epics); 1 unit covers the literature genre of fantasy; etc.

 

 

Another very gentle but structured introduction to Literature and how to begin reading the Classics with beginning literary analysis in Lightning Lit. & Comp. 8. It is extra-nice because it covers a range of literature: poetry, novels, a novella, short stories, and biography. It also has workpages to help the student put into practice the literary lesson learned for the unit, and in the second half of the program, increasing includes excerpts from other works to begin practicing analysis on a short passage from a classic work.

 

Those who have had some literary analysis already find LL8 "lite", but it was a good introduction for us. The program has a student book (where the "meat" of the program is), and a teacher book with answers, a schedule, some teaching tips, and some discussion questions. The Student Book has 2 parts:

 

1. Student Guide (12 units) each unit contains:

- a page intro about each author, and tips on what to look for as you read.

- vocabulary list with definitions to make reading the book easier.

- comprehension questions to help student focus on key details.

- 6-10 teaching text pages (written to the student) about a literary element and examples of how that literary element is used in the work being read to go with that unit.

- a 2-3 page "mini-writing lesson" with information/tips on various aspects of writing (examples: how to cite sources; how to take notes; etc.)

- choice from 4-8 longer writing assignment ideas for finishing up each unit

 

2. Workpages Section contains:

- 8-10 worksheets per unit to help student practice the literary element, occasional grammar aspect (punctuation, capitalization, etc.), or beginning analysis of an excerpt from literature.

- Sometimes a short story or a segment of a longer work is reproduced for the student to read/analyze.

 

Here's what is covered in the 12 units:

 

1. "A Crazy Tale" (short story)

literary lesson: author's purpose

mini writing lesson: taking notes

 

2. Treasure Island (adventure novel)

literary lesson: setting

mini writing lesson: rewriting in your own words

 

3. poetry unit -- 6 poems

literary lesson: vivid imagery

mini writing lesson: free verse and the ballads

 

4. A Day of Pleasure (autobiography)

literary lesson: sharing your culture

mini writing lesson: rewriting in your own words

 

5. "Wakefield" (short story)

literary lesson: details in writing

mini writing lesson: citing sources in a paper

 

6. A Christmas Carol (novella)

literary lesson: character development

mini writing lesson: the narrator

 

7. poetry unit -- 8 poems

literary lesson: figurative language

mini writing lesson: fun poems

 

8. The Hobbit (fantasy)

literary lesson:conflict

mini writing lesson: genre fiction

 

9. "Reflections" (short story)

literary lesson: symbolism

mini writing lesson: sentence structure

 

10. My Family and Other Animals (humorous novel)

literary lesson: humor

mini writing lesson: bibliography

 

11. poetry unit -- 8 poems

literary lesson: meter in poetry

mini writing lesson: the sonnet

 

12. To Kill a Mockingbird (realistic novel)

literary lesson: writing a literary analysis

mini writing lesson: writing a conclusion

 

 

 

To clarify (about Horatio Hornblower and Scarlet Pimpernel), dd is only in the 7th grade. She has read most of the Jane Austen books and many other classics as well, for fun reading. I haven't really pushed her into the deeper works yet.

 

 

You might start by together learning the "tools" of literary analysis by going through Figuratively Speaking; do 1 or 2 a week, and then as you read Literature, look for examples of those literary elements in the works you and she are reading. Then, using something like Windows to the World, you can begin using those "tools" of literary analysis to see how to dig deeper into a work. I also find individual literature guides to be a big help there, as they usually have some paragraphs of analysis to guide you, plus discussion questions to help springboard you into discussion and your own analysis.

 

Have you tried doing a work aloud together? That makes you slow down and start looking for those literary elements, helps you hear the beauty of the language, allows you to discover and enjoy a great work together, and allows you to discuss "in the moment". Wonderful! :)

 

 

BEST of luck in your literature adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Lori D.

[Penny from Tenny]

Wow! Lori, will you come to my house and teach literature for me? ;) Even though I am not the OP, thank you for all your helpful info. Also, we just finished LL8 with a coop (NOT facilitated by me!) that met once a month for discussion and presentation of papers, and we thought it was a very enjoyable course also.

Blessings,

Penny

[BlsdMama]

Thoughts:

 

I have the set (including the Worldview Supplement) and I think it's great if you aren't entirely comfortable with literary analysis.

 

So, my thoughts for a seventh grader are pretty much what YOU are doing:

 

1. Encourage her to read great books, read wide, read deep. :)

2. Watch the DVDs yourself to figure out what "literary analysis" actually IS. ;)

 

What would be my next steps?

 

Choose something for you to read separate and discuss. Do this fairly often! If there is another person that loves literature (friend, family, etc.) that he/she can discuss literature with then coordinate some reading in that direction as well.

 

In my own experience we have been INCREDIBLY blessed as Ana knows two other adults that love lit as much as she does. Not only that, but they are willing to read books along with her and discuss them! She is always surprised to find out how thought provoking those discussions can be - especially in the realm of symbolism.

 

I've co-taught a co-op class on Literary Analysis for 5th-8th graders and what I've gleaned from this is:

 

From a very small age, encourage reading of great books. Discuss them.

 

Read aloud, then read aloud more, then finally read aloud even more. What naturally grows out of this is discussion... Discussion about characters, discussion about plot, conflict, decisions, the authors, time periods... SO much! Moreover, when you choose good literature (even from TWO years old) their tastes are shaped and they become truly literate.

 

When they are little, call for oral narrations. It helps them follow the storyline and THINK while listening which I really believe translates later to THINKING while reading.

 

A child who can do an oral narration off the cuff (often) is well versed in being able to sum up the story line. They are half way there to an analysis.

 

By 7th grade, and ideally by about 3rd grade, they should be getting familiar with the terms character, setting, conflict, climax, etc.

 

Just as in most things we introduce something new, we give the grammar - the correct terms. THEN we expect them to begin to think and speak and finally to think and write. How can a child be prepared to WRITE about what they feel an author was thinking/doing in a book if they can't TELL (orally) what the storyline is? This comes about through PRACTICE, age appropriate practice.

 

So you are at the perfect stage for oral literary analysis simply because you're going to want him/her to be writing and arguing in high school, so they must have already acheived familiarity with all of this!

 

Teaching the Classics is good. I think it's very, well, generic. But it lets you see exactly how pretty much ALL good literature shares the same bits and pieces. When you begin to tear apart the books you read and discuss them, just two or three of you, you will quickly see how discussing it makes you love it more. But really the questions that need to be asked CAN be very generic - then it isn't "leading" so much as it is personal interpretation, kwim?

 

Carry On Mr. Bowditch is a great example of a "young" book that works well for this. I hated that book. Hated it. But we kept on, and we discussed it as we did read-aloud. I can't tell you how many times we alluded to that book in the following weeks! Now I remember it fondly?!?

[Lori D.]

Wow! Lori, will you come to my house and teach literature for me? ;)

 

:lol: Do you provide chocolate??! :tongue_smilie:

[MicheleinMN]

:lol: Do you provide chocolate??! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I will if you will come and teach me and my (remaining) students! :D

[Penny from Tenny]

Hey now! I asked first - and yes, chocolate is a definite must for literary analysis!

 

I will if you will come and teach me and my (remaining) students! :D

[MicheleinMN]

Hey now! I asked first - and yes, chocolate is a definite must for literary analysis!

 

Okay...I'll just get in line and wait my turn. :lol: