KidsHappen Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I am raising a little anarchist. My dd is getting ready for school and said she needed a pair of pajamas. I asked her what for and she said all the 7th graders are wearing them. So I asked if it was a special day or something and she said no, the 7th graders all just banded together and decided to wear pajamas today because it is TCAPs and the school couldn't very well dressed code the entire 7th grade on a TCAP day. And I am ok with this. I can see the humor in it. :tongue_smilie: I hope the teachers can do the same. Somehow I think they will because once the kids are done with their test for the day, they are allowed to hang out in the cafateria, sleep on the mats in the gym or go outside and play games. I do ponder the moral implications of allowing a child to break the rules just because they can but not enough to tell her she can't wear pajamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Good for you and your daughter! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think that's pretty awesome, actually. You aren't a bad mom at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My daughters school will do nothing while kids take tests. They do it after. When tests were over they suspended all but 4 9th graders last year for a week. The whole week only 4 children in 9th grade were allowed to come to school. This was due to a violation in dress code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 :lol: That just shows that the kids are aware of how much the school cares about those test results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 :lol: That just shows that the kids are aware of how much the school cares about those test results. Well yeah! But in the end a whole group of kids missed a weeks worth of work and dropped all their grades. A whole group of parents were ticked off and went to the school board but it didn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I guess I'll be the lone dissenter and say that I wouldn't have let her wear PJs to school. I guess that makes me no fun. But rules are there for a reason. Plus, I loathe seeing people out in public in pajamas. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My daughters school will do nothing while kids take tests. They do it after. When tests were over they suspended all but 4 9th graders last year for a week. The whole week only 4 children in 9th grade were allowed to come to school. This was due to a violation in dress code I wondered if something like this would happen. OP, I am sure you discussed the possibility of the above happening, and if she is ok with the consequences, then it will be a good lesson learned. ;) At least her GPA does not matter yet for college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle1746 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I guess I'll be the lone dissenter and say that I wouldn't have let her wear PJs to school. I guess that makes me no fun. But rules are there for a reason. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen3kids Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 When my older ds attended middle school, he occasionally wanted to wear clothes that didn't meet their dress code. I told him he would have to deal with the consequences and if he was fine with that, then I was too. But, if the principal called to have me pick him up, then ds would have to pay me the gas money. He missed a couple of recesses for it, but it was no big deal to him. If your dd knows the consequences and is able to accept them, then it is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Please update us on the events of the day. I hope your daughter and friends have a great time. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garddwr Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Sounds like harmless fun to me and something I would have gone in for 100% at that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Mama Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I don't think you're a bad mom, everyone has to make their own decisions with regard to their children. That said, I wouldn't have done it. For one thing, because I work very hard on the "I don't care what everyone is doing - YOU need to do the right thing, even if you are the only one doing the right thing" spiel. Secondly, because I wouldn't want my child breaking a rule just because they'd found a loophole. FWIW, your DD's school may well see the humor and still punish the students. I worked in a school office. We often could laugh about the things a kid did, but a rule was a rule. A broken rule had to have a consequence....if they let this slide because they find it funny, what happens to the next kid who breaks a rule? I find it sort of along the same line as class clowns - yeah, you may be funny but it's still disruptive and you're still breaking the rule....so you're going to be punished. ..... Well, and third - PJs in a nasty public school :ack2: We had PJ days about twice a year at my kids' old school, I always bought them a special pair of "school pjs" that would "neva eva eva" be worn to bed. I don't care if they'd been washed...cuffs dragged on the bathroom floor (and I'd seen the bathroom floor), laying on those icky floors. Eeew. Couldn't do it. I'm germphobic like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Good for you for letting her do it. As long as she went into eyes wide open that there *may* be discipline brought down by the school after the tests let her. To me it is no different than participating in senior ditch day or other such hijinks. It's not like the students showed up in bathing suits instead of clothes. Yes it breaks dress code but I am sure the teachers won't care if kids are comfy in their pj's as long as they score well. Growing up we did all sorts of things as a way to assert our independence and think we pulled one over on the teachers. They had seen it all before and while the feigned annoyance I am sure they chuckled about it in the teacher's lounge. Like the time that all the grade 8 students stood up at 11:15am and started singing the anthem. We had days we showed up in pj's, technically that was not breaking dress code because the code specified no rude/foul language, no hats, and nothing showing excessive cleavage. Senior ditch day (after all skipping school was breaking the rules) etc. If teachers roll with it and the students are not causing harm, and their bits and bobbles are all covered, the kids tend to respect the staff more in the long run. If the school comes down hard like the one mentioned the students just get po'd and act out more. If the teacher has a good laugh at seeing his/her class, feigns a "you got me! Now good luck today" it ends up being a funny memory they talk about without feeling the need to push harder against the school rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeannpal Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you and your daughter are willing to accept the consequences of the broken dress code, then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCB Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I say - Good for you. I can well imagine organizing something like that when I was that age. Sounds like a fairly harmless prank to me. Also, I can completely understand rebelling about those tests, at least they're taking the test for the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I say - Good for you. I can well imagine organizing something like that when I was that age. Sounds like a fairly harmless prank to me. Also, I can completely understand rebelling about those tests, at least they're taking the test for the school. :iagree:I know many many parents who suddenly "realize" their kids is "sick" on test day and call in their absense. They can even get a dr's note if the school wants. THe Medicenter will write one for $5 for any absense from school to come in, even if there is nothing actually found wrong. I know many many parents against any form of standardized testing and simply tell the school their kid is sick that day and don't send them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think it's funny.... To me, there's rule breaking, and then there's RULE breaking. Considering many schools host a PJ day at sometime during the school year anyway - I don't think it's such a big deal. As long as all the PJ's are appropriately covering. It seems like a valid method of silent protest. Now - if she wanted to cut school, put a goat in the teachers' lounge, a VW bus on the roof of the gym, and spray paint an obscene word on the football field.... I'd tell her to wait until her senior year. :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think it's funny....To me, there's rule breaking, and then there's RULE breaking. Considering many schools host a PJ day at sometime during the school year anyway - I don't think it's such a big deal. As long as all the PJ's are appropriately covering. It seems like a valid method of silent protest. Now - if she wanted to cut school, put a goat in the teachers' lounge, a VW bus on the roof of the gym, and spray paint an obscene word on the football field.... I'd tell her to wait until her senior year. :lol::lol::lol: Paaaahahaha! The bold bit made me lol. And I completely agree with the rest. If wearing pajamas to school is the worst thing she ever does, OP, you deserve mother of the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My daughter's grad program (so these are at least 20-somethings) had an induction ceremony. One of the professors speaking stated how glad she was to see them all dressed, because in the future she expected them to be wearing PJ's. I wouldn't allow it, on the stand that just becaue a "group" is doing something doesn't mean it is intelligent. stand out from the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I love it. I'm sure the teachers/administrators have gotten wind of the plan already; if they were going to nix it, they'd have said something, I'm sure. I hope she has a lot of fun today :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Imo, it’s more conforming and acquiescing to peers and group think than anarchy. My daughter's grad program (so these are at least 20-somethings) had an induction ceremony. One of the professors speaking stated how glad she was to see them all dressed, because in the future she expected them to be wearing PJ's. I wouldn't allow it, on the stand that just becaue a "group" is doing something doesn't mean it is intelligent. stand out from the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My daughters school will do nothing while kids take tests. They do it after. When tests were over they suspended all but 4 9th graders last year for a week. The whole week only 4 children in 9th grade were allowed to come to school. This was due to a violation in dress code :001_huh: W.O.W. Uber control freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think it's great and would let my dd participate. Are pj's truly against the dress code or just not the norm? At the schools my oldest has attended the dress code was more about modesty and what was written on t-shirts, except for the one that had a uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I wouldn't allow it, on the stand that just becaue a "group" is doing something doesn't mean it is intelligent. stand out from the crowd. But- sometimes it's fun..... And - really - do you remember being in 7th grade? Would you really be the only kid to come dressed normal? To me - it would come off as kinda snobbish, an "I'm better than you all and I think you're all stupid" attitude. Yes- individuality is important, and we should all encourage our kids to think for themselves and not act in a "herd mentality" way. In this case, though, maybe she just agrees with her fellow students regarding the inflated importance of standardized tests??? I think this sort of non-violent, non-confrontation protest is great. Sometimes not "going with the crowd" just to not go with the crowd is the wrong thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 WOW!!! I am really :001_huh: by the response to purposefully disobeying rules put in place by the authority....which, are not immoral...GEE!!!! So, it is ok to break the rules as long as you take your lumps?? Really??.... I disagree. I want my kids to respect their authority as long as the authority is not purposely trying to hurt them. It is one thing to buck the establishment....and one thing to stand up for yourself against authority if the authority is WRONG....and even harmless pranks...ok...I can see it... But a green light to go ahead, break the rules and if you get punished...oh well, because it was funny...especially during a week when everyone is stressed out??? Not my kids....no way...they would be in trouble at school and at trouble at home. maybe this is part of the reason our school systems are in such trouble.... ducking and running...because I can see those tomatoes flying!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 But- sometimes it's fun.....And - really - do you remember being in 7th grade? Would you really be the only kid to come dressed normal? To me - it would come off as kinda snobbish, an "I'm better than you all and I think you're all stupid" attitude. Yes- individuality is important, and we should all encourage our kids to think for themselves and not act in a "herd mentality" way. In this case, though, maybe she just agrees with her fellow students regarding the inflated importance of standardized tests??? I think this sort of non-violent, non-confrontation protest is great. Sometimes not "going with the crowd" just to not go with the crowd is the wrong thing to do. I definitely remember being in 7th grade....school was NOT the place to rebel. School was the place to learn, and to be respectful. I am sorry....still not funny....I just don't get it. I must really be an old fart.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I could get behind some harmless civil disobedience if the kids were legitimately protesting something. If the dress code were unduly strict, or unfairly burdened boys, or demanded expensive clothes not everybody could afford? I'd say wear the PJs and be prepared to accept the consequences. But doing it just because most of the other 7th graders said to wouldn't be good enough for me. And what if most of the others chicken out and only a few kids show up in violation of the dress code? Now the goat in the teachers' lounge? Excellent. Even better if you release three goats spray-painted (non-toxic paint, of course) 1, 3, and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 WOW!!! I am really :001_huh: by the response to purposefully disobeying rules put in place by the authority....which, are not immoral...GEE!!!! So, it is ok to break the rules as long as you take your lumps?? Really??.... I disagree. I want my kids to respect their authority as long as the authority is not purposely trying to hurt them. It is one thing to buck the establishment....and one thing to stand up for yourself against authority if the authority is WRONG....and even harmless pranks...ok...I can see it... But a green light to go ahead, break the rules and if you get punished...oh well, because it was funny...especially during a week when everyone is stressed out??? Not my kids....no way...they would be in trouble at school and at trouble at home. maybe this is part of the reason our school systems are in such trouble.... ducking and running...because I can see those tomatoes flying!!! I agree and I am not old lol! That is the reason schools are in such trouble. No one wants to follow the rules and everybody wants to make exuses for it. Everyone wants special allowances for this and that. Oh he has issues so he should get a free pass to do what he does, she can't help it she lives in a rough neighborhood... On and on and on. Break the rules as long as another thinks it is a good idea. My daughter would be slaughtered if she had a mark over this. They aren't protesting anything. I would not allow it and I would have called the school. Can you even imagine how some girls at that age can take wearing pajamas to a whole new level? I have seen the way most dress on an average I would hate to see pj's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustybug Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 WOW!!! I am really :001_huh: by the response to purposefully disobeying rules put in place by the authority....which, are not immoral...GEE!!!! So, it is ok to break the rules as long as you take your lumps?? Really??.... I disagree. I want my kids to respect their authority as long as the authority is not purposely trying to hurt them. It is one thing to buck the establishment....and one thing to stand up for yourself against authority if the authority is WRONG....and even harmless pranks...ok...I can see it... But a green light to go ahead, break the rules and if you get punished...oh well, because it was funny...especially during a week when everyone is stressed out??? Not my kids....no way...they would be in trouble at school and at trouble at home. maybe this is part of the reason our school systems are in such trouble.... ducking and running...because I can see those tomatoes flying!!! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 WOW!!! I am really :001_huh: by the response to purposefully disobeying rules put in place by the authority....which, are not immoral...GEE!!!! So, it is ok to break the rules as long as you take your lumps?? Really??.... I disagree. I want my kids to respect their authority as long as the authority is not purposely trying to hurt them. It is one thing to buck the establishment....and one thing to stand up for yourself against authority if the authority is WRONG....and even harmless pranks...ok...I can see it... But a green light to go ahead, break the rules and if you get punished...oh well, because it was funny...especially during a week when everyone is stressed out??? Not my kids....no way...they would be in trouble at school and at trouble at home. maybe this is part of the reason our school systems are in such trouble.... ducking and running...because I can see those tomatoes flying!!! I actually think it is okay to break rules that don't involve anyone getting hurt as long as you take your lumps. That's sort of the purpose of civil disobedience. I know these are kids, blowing off steam... but part of what they're blowing off steam about is objecting to the stress the system puts on them about the tests. It's a form of mild civil disobedience in my book. And to suggest this is the reason the schools are failing - dress code violations and parents not caring enough about them... Well, let's just say clearly you and I have different goals for what makes quality education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Technically pajamas are not out of dress code, just an unsual choice. The children are protesting the fact that this year the TACP accounts for 25 % of their final grade for the year and the teachers are willing to really push them over appropriate limitations to ensure that the kids get a good grade. This was intended to point out to the teachers just how much they are willing to put up with in order to get those good grades. My dd didn't do it because everyone else did it. The group decided to do it because they all agreed with the point. It was a small act of civil disobediance and I strongly support that as long as the person committing it understand that they are breaking the rules and are willing to suffer the consequences which we do. I obey rules that are moral and just but I do not obey rules just because they are rules. If you think that you do not do the same, look up stupid laws for your state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 WOW!!! I am really :001_huh: by the response to purposefully disobeying rules put in place by the authority....which, are not immoral...GEE!!!! So, it is ok to break the rules as long as you take your lumps?? Really??.... I disagree. I want my kids to respect their authority as long as the authority is not purposely trying to hurt them. It is one thing to buck the establishment....and one thing to stand up for yourself against authority if the authority is WRONG....and even harmless pranks...ok...I can see it... But a green light to go ahead, break the rules and if you get punished...oh well, because it was funny...especially during a week when everyone is stressed out??? Not my kids....no way...they would be in trouble at school and at trouble at home. maybe this is part of the reason our school systems are in such trouble.... ducking and running...because I can see those tomatoes flying!!! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Technically pajamas are not out of dress code, just an unsual choice. The children are protesting the fact that this year the TACP accounts for 25 % of their final grade for the year and the teachers are willing to really push them over appropriate limitations to ensure that the kids get a good grade. This was intended to point out to the teachers just how much they are willing to put up with in order to get those good grades. My dd didn't do it because everyone else did it. The group decided to do it because they all agreed with the point. It was a small act of civil disobediance and I strongly support that as long as the person committing it understand that they are breaking the rules and are willing to suffer the consequences which we do. I obey rules that are moral and just but I do not obey rules just because they are rules. If you think that you do not do the same, look up stupid laws for your state. :lol: According to Alberta law all businesses MUST provide a place to tie up horses. It is illegal to paint wooden logs. Oh and it is against the law to set fire to the wooden leg of a man with a wooden leg ;) It sounds an awful lot like provincial laws in days gone by were written much like how rules in my house are created. AFTER someone did something stupid. Oh and the best one for Alberta. When you are released from prison you are to be given a horse and a loaded hand gun so you can get the heck out of town. In BC it is illegal to kill a sasquatch In New brunswick driving on roads is illegal A bylaw in Ontario states that no more than 3.5inches of water is allowed in a bath tub Also in Ontario if you have a water trough in your front lawn it must be filled by 5 am, but forget line drying clothes, it is illegal to have a backyard clothes line Oh and you can not drag a dead horse down Yonge street on Sunday And all kids are in big trouble. It is illegal to climb trees. And one law that I think should be followed more often. It is a National law (as in federal offense) to remove bandages in public. And just for Audrey, did you know it is against national law to pretend to follow witchcraft ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Here are some good ones from Texas: When two trains meet each other at a railroad crossing, each shall come to a full stop, and neither shall proceed until the other has gone. It is illegal to take more than three sips of beer at a time while standing. The entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a formula for making beer at home. In Clarendon It is illegal to dust any public building with a feather duster. In Dallas It’s illegal to possess realistic d**dos. :001_huh: In Galveston One needs permission from the director of parks and recreation before getting drunk in any city park. In Houston It is illegal to sell Limburger cheese on Sunday!!! In Port Arthur Obnoxious odors may not be emitted while in an elevator. And in Temple, my hometown, Cattle thieves may be hanged on the spot. I am imagining going on a really whacked out crime spree. :) Edited April 30, 2012 by Amy loves Bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I actually think it is okay to break rules that don't involve anyone getting hurt as long as you take your lumps. That's sort of the purpose of civil disobedience. I know these are kids, blowing off steam... but part of what they're blowing off steam about is objecting to the stress the system puts on them about the tests. It's a form of mild civil disobedience in my book. And to suggest this is the reason the schools are failing - dress code violations and parents not caring enough about them... Well, let's just say clearly you and I have different goals for what makes quality education. I don't think this really qualifies as civil disobedience. The teachers aren't the ones who have the power to do anything about the test. They do, however, have to deal with the fallout from kids getting away w/breaking rules. Civil disobedience, in my opinion, would be skipping school entirely and showing up at the School District Office (or the office of whoever made this 25% requirement). Just messing w/the teachers, who don't have the power, is just "shooting the messenger." There are SO MANY rules that "don't involve anyone getting hurt" but still exist for a useful reason in schools. No one will necessarily "get hurt" if these rules are broken, but I think a good case can be made for most of them: 1. do your homework 2. dress in PE clothes 3. stay seated/quiet while the teacher is talking 4. come on time 5. be prepared for class w/book, pencil, and paper ready 6. follow the dress code As a teacher, I had kids whose parents had the "Who's it hurting? I don't care." attitude, and I can tell you it definitely contributes to a school failing. If parents aren't respectful of the school's rules and the role of the teacher, it becomes very obvious in the kids' attitudes. I NEVER would dream of intentionally undermining a parent's rules for their kids at home or encouraging them to break them. Why is it ok the other way around? I mean, who is it really going to hurt if I tell your kid he can sneak more video game time, eat in a room that you don't want him to, wear an outfit to church/fancy dinner/concert that you told him isn't appropriate, to not do his chores because he's not your slave, etc? Some friends of mine did what I would term "civil disobedience" in 7th grade. They had an abusive PE teacher. She would come up to kids who were stretching in the butterfly position and force their legs to the floor if she didn't think they were stretching far enough. Kids would cry in pain, but she continued doing it. She didn't supervise them while they were running outside and didn't check to make sure they all came back. One girl passed out while running (she was last in line) and wasn't found for 15 minutes. She would randomly leave them alone for 15 min. or more so all kinds of bullying would occur while there was no adult around. The kids complained to their parents who complained to the principal, but nothing was done. Finally, the kids dressed out for PE one day, but went and sat in the principal's office instead of going to the gym. This wasn't just a "let's be silly and annoying and break the rules because we can and no one can punish us" thing. They finally got the attention of the principal, and the teacher's contract was not renewed (though she wasn't actually fired because of stupid red tape). They were given a sub for the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Technically pajamas are not out of dress code, just an unsual choice. The children are protesting the fact that this year the TACP accounts for 25 % of their final grade for the year and the teachers are willing to really push them over appropriate limitations to ensure that the kids get a good grade. This was intended to point out to the teachers just how much they are willing to put up with in order to get those good grades. My dd didn't do it because everyone else did it. The group decided to do it because they all agreed with the point. It was a small act of civil disobediance and I strongly support that as long as the person committing it understand that they are breaking the rules and are willing to suffer the consequences which we do. I obey rules that are moral and just but I do not obey rules just because they are rules. If you think that you do not do the same, look up stupid laws for your state. If there is no actual rule and it's just unusual, fine. THAT'S just being silly 7th graders and I can understand and would be ok w/it as a parent and teacher. But there is a big difference between ignoring and/or not knowing an odd, antiquated rule that the police probably don't even know and intentionally breaking a school rule. The moral aspect is showing respect for your teachers and helping them keep order by not creating chaos/more work for them. If this were a real rule, it would be a pain for the school to have to figure out how to deal with it fairly, consistently, and in such a way that they aren't labelled as the "bad guys" for enforcing a rule that everyone understood. Edited April 30, 2012 by AndyJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I've been a ps teacher too, but I also wrote my master's dissertation on the necessity of student rights, so that should give you a taste of where I'm coming from. I think there's a big difference between the level of disruption caused by kids not following the example rules you listed. Students refusing to stop talking in class is clearly a disruption. Students not doing their homework, maybe. Students not following the dress code, I don't see it. I'm not saying this is *smart* civil disobedience, but that from the OP's own description of the students' motives, that it clearly is civil disobedience. Teachers are also victims of these tests and many don't like them, but that doesn't change that they are the enforcers of the law - they're the police of the law in a sense. I think if there's anyone they have a right to perform civil disobedience in front of, it's the teachers. Sure, they're just following orders, but orders the students object to. I don't think this really qualifies as civil disobedience. The teachers aren't the ones who have the power to do anything about the test. They do, however, have to deal with the fallout from kids getting away w/breaking rules. Civil disobedience, in my opinion, would be skipping school entirely and showing up at the School District Office (or the office of whoever made this 25% requirement). Just messing w/the teachers, who don't have the power, is just "shooting the messenger." There are SO MANY rules that "don't involve anyone getting hurt" but still exist for a useful reason in schools. No one will necessarily "get hurt" if these rules are broken, but I think a good case can be made for most of them: 1. do your homework 2. dress in PE clothes 3. stay seated/quiet while the teacher is talking 4. come on time 5. be prepared for class w/book, pencil, and paper ready 6. follow the dress code As a teacher, I had kids whose parents had the "Who's it hurting? I don't care." attitude, and I can tell you it definitely contributes to a school failing. If parents aren't respectful of the school's rules and the role of the teacher, it becomes very obvious in the kids' attitudes. I NEVER would dream of intentionally undermining a parent's rules for their kids at home or encouraging them to break them. Why is it ok the other way around? I mean, who is it really going to hurt if I tell your kid he can sneak more video game time, eat in a room that you don't want him to, wear an outfit to church/fancy dinner/concert that you told him isn't appropriate, to not do his chores because he's not your slave, etc? Some friends of mine did what I would term "civil disobedience" in 7th grade. They had an abusive PE teacher. She would come up to kids who were stretching in the butterfly position and force their legs to the floor if she didn't think they were stretching far enough. Kids would cry in pain, but she continued doing it. She didn't supervise them while they were running outside and didn't check to make sure they all came back. One girl passed out while running (she was last in line) and wasn't found for 15 minutes. She would randomly leave them alone for 15 min. or more so all kinds of bullying would occur while there was no adult around. The kids complained to their parents who complained to the principal, but nothing was done. Finally, the kids dressed out for PE one day, but went and sat in the principal's office instead of going to the gym. This wasn't just a "let's be silly and annoying and break the rules because we can and no one can punish us" thing. They finally got the attention of the principal, and the teacher's contract was not renewed (though she wasn't actually fired because of stupid red tape). They were given a sub for the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I actually think it is okay to break rules that don't involve anyone getting hurt as long as you take your lumps. That's sort of the purpose of civil disobedience. I know these are kids, blowing off steam... but part of what they're blowing off steam about is objecting to the stress the system puts on them about the tests. It's a form of mild civil disobedience in my book. And to suggest this is the reason the schools are failing - dress code violations and parents not caring enough about them... Well, let's just say clearly you and I have different goals for what makes quality education. well, no...I was not talking about dress codes per se' just a general lack of respect for authorities...and parents being not only OK with it, but rooting the kids on...THAT is what I am saying. It is not ok to correct children's behavior in school anymore either...not unless you want a lawsuit on your hand. I am all for "civil disobedience" when it is called for....like in REAL issues...ie racism. If parents do not want their kids subjected to dress codes, or testing etc....either don't send your kids to school, or vote to change the system. But, encouraging kids to willingly disobey their teachers...who THEY hired to teach and for all intents and purposes pass on good values, is in my mind self - defeateing at best, and damaging to the kids at worst. Just my opinion....you don't have to agree....or send your kids to school according to code. And yes....I DO think this is why our schools are in trouble. It is because parents do not back up the teachers, nor do they show due respect to them, so why should their kids? Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle1746 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 well, no...I was not talking about dress codes per se' just a general lack of respect for authorities...and parents being not only OK with it, but rooting the kids on...THAT is what I am saying. It is not ok to correct children's behavior in school anymore either...not unless you want a lawsuit on your hand. I am all for "civil disobedience" when it is called for....like in REAL issues...ie racism. If parents do not want their kids subjected to dress codes, or testing etc....either don't send your kids to school, or vote to change the system. But, encouraging kids to willingly disobey their teachers...who THEY hired to teach and for all intents and purposes pass on good values, is in my mind self - defeateing at best, and damaging to the kids at worst. Just my opinion....you don't have to agree....or send your kids to school according to code. And yes....I DO think this is why our schools are in trouble. It is because parents do not back up the teachers, nor do they show due respect to them, so why should their kids? Faithe :iagree: with everything you've said. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I actually think it is okay to break rules that don't involve anyone getting hurt as long as you take your lumps. That's sort of the purpose of civil disobedience. I know these are kids, blowing off steam... but part of what they're blowing off steam about is objecting to the stress the system puts on them about the tests. It's a form of mild civil disobedience in my book. And to suggest this is the reason the schools are failing - dress code violations and parents not caring enough about them... Well, let's just say clearly you and I have different goals for what makes quality education. I completely agree. OP - I hope your daughter's day went well and they had a little fun. Amy - those laws are hysterical.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Just my opinion....you don't have to agree....or send your kids to school according to code. And yes....I DO think this is why our schools are in trouble. It is because parents do not back up the teachers, nor do they show due respect to them, so why should their kids? Faithe This is the part I have a hard time with. What exactly is due respect and WHY should they be given it just because of their profession? In my life as a student and as a mother that had kids in public school for a spell I have only met 2 (TWO! ) teachers that derserved any form of respect imo. Now I am not saying supporting kids standing up in class and cussing out the teacher, or in the case of my 8th grade class the students that tried to poison the teacher etc. But I think it is very healthy for kids to learn they do not have to bow down to someone just because of their job title. That being polite and civil is important but that they are NOT to blindly follow authority just because that person has a specific job title. They have a right to peaceful protest. In the case of the OP wearing pj's to school was their form of peaceful protest. Big deal. Schools have not failed because of pj's. In fact I do not even believe that school's are failing because students do not respect teachers. I believe one of the reasons school's are failing because terrible teachers who deserve ZERO respect are tenured and remain in a classroom failing to teach the students, and often times out right belittling, abusing and conducting themselves in a way that shows their disrespect for their students. I guess that it is good that I homeschool my kids. Though I do not limit that to just teachers. The same for pretty much anyone in an authority position. Be civil, be polite but just because they have a title does not mean you have to respect them. Respect is earned imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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