Barb_ Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Last fall I posted here for help with my 17yo's acne. Sputterduck recommended 50mg of zinc in the place of the antibiotics she was taking. We tried it and it worked beautifully! She is still using the topical antibiotic and Epiduo for occasional minor breakouts, but the zinc keeps her skin in beautiful condition. At one point, she was having some stomach upset so we stopped it for a couple of months. When the acne started coming back, she added it back in and it disappeared again. Now she is taking 50mg about 3 times a week (just because that is how often she remembers) and that seems to be keeping the pesky pimples at bay. Just thought I'd post in case it helps someone else. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 May I ask what brand? And does it have to be chelated zinc or any type of zinc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 :hurray: Yay! So glad to hear it worked for your dd. I need to add it to my teens' morning routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 May I ask what brand? And does it have to be chelated zinc or any type of zinc? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 May I ask what brand? And does it have to be chelated zinc or any type of zinc? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemMommy Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 :bigear: bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 We use 50mg capsules of zinc picolinate because there is some evidence that it is absorbed better than gluconate. We use NOW brand from Amazon.com, but I'm not sure brand has anything to do with it. Hope this helps someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thank you for sharing! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMissMagnolia Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 awesome---might have to see if it might work for my nephew..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 My ds is looking forward to trying this. Thank you. He's here telling me a couple of other things that worked for him. 1. Wash with soap 2x/day. 2. Apply to face a mixture: 3 parts apple cider vinegar 3 parts green tea 1 part witch hazel He does that 2x/day and noticed a difference overnight. There was a HUGE difference after three days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I used zinc supplements when i was a teen (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) and it was like a magic cure! DD13 is taking zinc and we are using Roche-Posay Effeclar K (I think that is what it is called - we get it at CVS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Would there be any harm in giving this to a 9 1/2-year-old? My daughter has just started breaking out. She's 4'11" and 100 lb - I feel like at her size, it *should* be ok, but I'm not sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Would there be any harm in giving this to a 9 1/2-year-old? My daughter has just started breaking out. She's 4'11" and 100 lb - I feel like at her size, it *should* be ok, but I'm not sure! On the one hand, the daughter I posted about up above is petite and not much bigger than yours. But too much zinc can have side effects and can interfere with absorption of other minerals. Double check with your pediatrician, but if it were me, I'd go ahead and try the 50mg, but if she complains of stomach upset or diarrhea, cut back to 25mg until she's a little older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 We use 50mg capsules of zinc picolinate because there is some evidence that it is absorbed better than gluconate. We use NOW brand from Amazon.com, but I'm not sure brand has anything to do with it. Hope this helps someone. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Thanks- I'll look for 20 or 25 mg and start on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommee & Baba Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Thanks for posting this! I will be taking in my 12y old cousin in a couple weeks and she complains of acne. I will try this with her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 On the one hand, the daughter I posted about up above is petite and not much bigger than yours. But too much zinc can have side effects and can interfere with absorption of other minerals. Double check with your pediatrician, but if it were me, I'd go ahead and try the 50mg, but if she complains of stomach upset or diarrhea, cut back to 25mg until she's a little older. Hmm, my ds is only 11 but he has started to get pimples. He is only around 4'1" and weighs 56lbs. I'm hesitant to try extra zinc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra in FL Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Hmm, my ds is only 11 but he has started to get pimples. He is only around 4'1" and weighs 56lbs. I'm hesitant to try extra zinc. He's tiny - I wouldn't try zinc with him (only the RDA for the age down from his level). How about fish oil - a teaspoon of Carlson's (lemon-flavored) fish oil - very anti-inflammatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 He's tiny - I wouldn't try zinc with him (only the RDA for the age down from his level). How about fish oil - a teaspoon of Carlson's (lemon-flavored) fish oil - very anti-inflammatory. Good idea. I haven't gotten fish oil in awhile. I'm trying to get him to wash his face daily, but I can barely get him to shower. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra in FL Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Good idea. I haven't gotten fish oil in awhile. I'm trying to get him to wash his face daily, but I can barely get him to shower. ;) My ds doesn't wash his face regularly (my dd a little more often) and both don't have much of a problem with acne. They do get a teaspoon of fish oil, multi-vitamin and eat pretty well (lots of fruit) daily. I've always thought that the skin is just a symptom of what's going on inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 My ds doesn't wash his face regularly (my dd a little more often) and both don't have much of a problem with acne. They do get a teaspoon of fish oil, multi-vitamin and eat pretty well (lots of fruit) daily. I've always thought that the skin is just a symptom of what's going on inside. He does get a multi that is food based. My dermatologist said genetics play a role as well. I asked him about all the blackheads I have on my nose and chin, and my roscea. He said to thank my parents for it all. Now that ds is entering puberty I see the blackheads popping up on his nose and chin just like me. That said my face does look better since I've cut out all gluten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellers Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I have my girls take "Chelated Zinc" for acne. They all have gorgeous skin. My experience is the zinc has to be chelated or it won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Mama Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I have my girls take "Chelated Zinc" for acne. They all have gorgeous skin. My experience is the zinc has to be chelated or it won't work. How much do they take? I've seen a vast improvement in my skin since cutting refined sugar and starting coconut oil (both as a moisturizer and ingesting it). I still have a spot or two now and then that I'd love to get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellers Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 How much do they take? I've seen a vast improvement in my skin since cutting refined sugar and starting coconut oil (both as a moisturizer and ingesting it). I still have a spot or two now and then that I'd love to get rid of. 50 - 100 mgs daily. I have my girls take 100 mgs. This works so well, you should see results in less than two weeks. This has to be taken daily, if a person slacks off the zits will come back. The zinc can upset the stomach so I recommend taking it after eating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 I have my girls take "Chelated Zinc" for acne. They all have gorgeous skin. My experience is the zinc has to be chelated or it won't work. Nah. If it is gluconate it has to be cheleated for absorption but picolinate works as well or better. Either should be fine but if you try one and it doesn't work try the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 50 - 100 mgs daily. I have my girls take 100 mgs. This works so well, you should see results in less than two weeks. This has to be taken daily, if a person slacks off the zits will come back. The zinc can upset the stomach so I recommend taking it after eating. 100mg a day is too much. Google zinc toxicity dose. Even 80mg/day from all sources can cause chronic low level toxicity and increased risk of certain diseases. 50 is probably the upper limit for supplementation since zinc is also obtained in food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellers Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 100mg a day is too much. Google zinc toxicity dose. Even 80mg/day from all sources can cause chronic low level toxicity and increased risk of certain diseases. 50 is probably the upper limit for supplementation since zinc is also obtained in food. Good info to know! I've never heard of this before. I actually found out about taking Chelated Zinc from a magazine article, I think it was Woman's Day, but I'm not sure, it was a very long time ago. The dosage they recommended in the article was 50-90 mgs daily. WebMD recommends taking 30-135 mgs daily for acne. According to LiveStrong Although zinc is an important mineral for your body, it can be dangerous to consume zinc supplements. Nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain are among acute symptoms of a zinc overdose, which can occur with doses between 225 and 450 mg of zinc. Chronic zinc overdose can also interfere with intestinal absorption of copper, resulting in a copper deficiency. The maximum recommended amount of zinc each day for adults is 40 mg. Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/506159-what-is-the-difference-between-chelated-zinc-zinc-gluconate/#ixzz1tRr5l0Ue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Got ours in the mail from Vitacost yesterday! Immediately started DS13 on it for his puberty acne that's starting to pop up, DH on it for general immune support, and myself for adult acne that just won't stop! Wish us luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Last fall I posted here for help with my 17yo's acne. Sputterduck recommended 50mg of zinc in the place of the antibiotics she was taking. We tried it and it worked beautifully! She is still using the topical antibiotic and Epiduo for occasional minor breakouts, but the zinc keeps her skin in beautiful condition. At one point, she was having some stomach upset so we stopped it for a couple of months. When the acne started coming back, she added it back in and it disappeared again. Now she is taking 50mg about 3 times a week (just because that is how often she remembers) and that seems to be keeping the pesky pimples at bay. Just thought I'd post in case it helps someone else. Barb :grouphug: to you! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Good info to know! I've never heard of this before. I actually found out about taking Chelated Zinc from a magazine article, I think it was Woman's Day, but I'm not sure, it was a very long time ago. The dosage they recommended in the article was 50-90 mgs daily. WebMD recommends taking 30-135 mgs daily for acne. According to LiveStrong When we use Cold-eeze zinc lozenges to ward off colds, I always tell my kids to spit it out if they start feeling yucky. I wonder if the zinc in them would work as well or better than zinc that has to go through your digestive system? You'd have to take 4 to get to 50mg (6 is the daily limit according to the package) so it would be much more expensive than taking tablets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie_ranae Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Last fall I posted here for help with my 17yo's acne. Sputterduck recommended 50mg of zinc in the place of the antibiotics she was taking. We tried it and it worked beautifully! She is still using the topical antibiotic and Epiduo for occasional minor breakouts, but the zinc keeps her skin in beautiful condition. At one point, she was having some stomach upset so we stopped it for a couple of months. When the acne started coming back, she added it back in and it disappeared again. Now she is taking 50mg about 3 times a week (just because that is how often she remembers) and that seems to be keeping the pesky pimples at bay. Just thought I'd post in case it helps someone else. Barb That's so cool that you posted this! (A good reminder for me in everyday life to share with others when someone has helped me. I ask for help, but then when it is found, I often forget the help I received.) Thank you for taking the time to post! I definitely want to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Good info to know! I've never heard of this before. I actually found out about taking Chelated Zinc from a magazine article, I think it was Woman's Day, but I'm not sure, it was a very long time ago. The dosage they recommended in the article was 50-90 mgs daily. WebMD recommends taking 30-135 mgs daily for acne. Yes, that's true. But on the same page they write: Zinc is LIKELY SAFE for most adults when applied to the skin, or when taken by mouth in amounts not larger than 40 mg per day. Routine zinc supplementation is not recommended without the advice of a healthcare professional. In some people, zinc might cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, metallic taste, kidney and stomach damage, and other side effects. Using zinc on broken skin may cause burning, stinging, itching, and tingling. Taking high amounts of zinc is LIKELY UNSAFE. High doses above the recommended amounts might cause fever, coughing, stomach pain, fatigue, and many other problems. I think they are recommending doses that high as a temporary thing to do under the care of a doctor for an acute condition. Also, you have to take body weight into consideration and also zinc from dietary sources. Breads and cereals are fortified with zinc as well as certain protein bars, etc. Meats, particularly beef are high in zinc with as much as 10mg per serving. Livestrong is a good starting point for information, but double check everything you find. They make a lot of assertions without studies to back up the information. Here is a study from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: Although consequences of zinc deficiency have been recognized for many years, it is only recently that attention has been directed to the potential consequences of excessive zinc intake. This is a review of the literature on manifestations of toxicity at several levels of zinc intake. Zinc is considered to be relatively nontoxic, particularly if taken orally. However, manifestations of overt toxicity symptoms (nausea, vomiting, epigastric pain, lethargy, and fatigue) will occur with extremely high zinc intakes. At low intakes, but at amounts well in excess of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) (100-300 mg Zn/d vs an RDA of 15 mg Zn/d), evidence of induced copper deficiency with attendant symptoms of anemia and neutropenia, as well as impaired immune function and adverse effects on the ratio of low-density- lipoprotein to high-density-lipoprotein (LDL/HDL) cholesterol have been reported. Even lower levels of zinc supplementation, closer in amount to the RDA, have been suggested to interfere with the utilization of copper and iron and to adversely affect HDL cholesterol concentrations. Individuals using zinc supplements should be aware of the possible complications attendant to their use. So just be careful and take the lowest dose that gives you the results you are looking for. Children and teens in particular are more vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 That's so cool that you posted this! (A good reminder for me in everyday life to share with others when someone has helped me. I ask for help, but then when it is found, I often forget the help I received.) Thank you for taking the time to post! I definitely want to give it a try. Well, I'm guilty of the same. But I know this is something that is a struggle for so many people and we had such great results. I know that there are small risks with supplementation, but I think the risks are greater with long term antibiotic use. My daughter's acne had been moderately bad to the point of it embarrassing her for the past 3 years and antibotics were the only other thing that worked (at least for the time being). I just wasn't comfortable with that. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 When we use Cold-eeze zinc lozenges to ward off colds, I always tell my kids to spit it out if they start feeling yucky. I wonder if the zinc in them would work as well or better than zinc that has to go through your digestive system? You'd have to take 4 to get to 50mg (6 is the daily limit according to the package) so it would be much more expensive than taking tablets. I wouldn't want to suck on 4 Cold-eeze every day :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Thank you for posting! My poor dd is suffering so badly. I just got a recommendation for a dermatologist from our primary care doctor. How long did it take to see results from the zinc? I may see if dd is willing to try that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellers Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 How long did it take to see results from the zinc? I may see if dd is willing to try that first. We saw results in less than two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I might order some for me, I have some adult acne after having spotless skin for the first 22+ years of my life. :glare: Anyone know safe dosages for breastfeeding? I know there's zinc & copper in my prenatals, but the company I buy from sold out, so I'm looking for another anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupOCoffee Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Wow! This is a very timely post, I need this information for my DS...gonna give it try for him. ~coffee~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Thank you for posting! My poor dd is suffering so badly. I just got a recommendation for a dermatologist from our primary care doctor. How long did it take to see results from the zinc? I may see if dd is willing to try that first. We had the same experience as Shellers. It took about 2 weeks. You may want to see the dermatologist anyway because ours gave us a prescription for topical antibiotic cream that helps a lot for hormone related occasional ugly single giant pimples or temporary breakouts. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineinthesand9 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here is another "Thank you" for this very timely post! We were searching the internet for answers for our poor 13 yr. old dd, who is starting to be plagued with just enough acne to cause intimidation, annoyance, and some minor embarrassment (...doesn't take much acne to cause that!!). We had been googling, and trying what we'd found for several months, but last week (the day you posted!) it hit me that I hadn't searched on this forum. Long-story-short, she's been taking a low dose of zinc for a week now, and we see some big-time improvements. Thanks for passing this along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Here is another "Thank you" for this very timely post! We were searching the internet for answers for our poor 13 yr. old dd, who is starting to be plagued with just enough acne to cause intimidation, annoyance, and some minor embarrassment (...doesn't take much acne to cause that!!). We had been googling, and trying what we'd found for several months, but last week (the day you posted!) it hit me that I hadn't searched on this forum. Long-story-short, she's been taking a low dose of zinc for a week now, and we see some big-time improvements. Thanks for passing this along! Thanks for bumping it. Glad to hear it's helping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 A double thanks! After seeing this thread a couple of weeks ago, my twin dds have been taking zinc. This morning, one of them (the one with the worst trouble) came to show me her beautiful skin :D It is working SO well, and we've tried all sorts of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 That is really interesting, Barb. Thank you for posting. I've also gone back and read the other thread you recommended. Can you tell me if your daughter's acne was very severe? Was it the cystic acne? This is what my daughter has. She has tried two different types of antibiotics now. It seemed like the first one helped a little, but then it seemed to stop working, and the doctor put her on a second kind, which isn't working at all. The doctor would like to try Accutane and BCP next, but I'm really hesitant to go that direction. She did try no-dairy for one month. I'd love to try the Zinc, so that's why I'm wondering how severe your daughter's acne was when she first went on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 That is really interesting, Barb. Thank you for posting. I've also gone back and read the other thread you recommended. Can you tell me if your daughter's acne was very severe? Was it the cystic acne? This is what my daughter has. She has tried two different types of antibiotics now. It seemed like the first one helped a little, but then it seemed to stop working, and the doctor put her on a second kind, which isn't working at all. The doctor would like to try Accutane and BCP next, but I'm really hesitant to go that direction. She did try no-dairy for one month. I'd love to try the Zinc, so that's why I'm wondering how severe your daughter's acne was when she first went on it? I would say her acne was on the worse side of moderate. Not the angry type that covers all of her face, but noticeable enough to embarrass her and make her want to avoid going out. In addition to blackheads, enlarged pores, and patches of bumps, she had cystic acne, usually 2-4 places at any given time. The antibiotics helped while she was on them, but stopped working within a couple of weeks of completing a round. Again, she couples the zinc with the topical antibiotic daily and uses Cetaphil cleanser and moisturizer. For the occasional hard, angry pimple, she uses Epiduo a couple of times a day. You can use the Epiduo all over your face, but we live in desert and it tends to dry her skin. I hope it works for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Yes! IT worked for us as well! My girls had those tiny little bump breakouts on their forehead and around their nose.....after three days, all gone!! We used 25 mcg ones from Nature's Made I believe..I had actually bought it for them the week before because they had the horrible sore throat thing, the cure is chew a zinc table then swallow orange juice...cured their sore throat! So, we had a whole bottle and they thought they'd try it! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 A double thanks! After seeing this thread a couple of weeks ago, my twin dds have been taking zinc. This morning, one of them (the one with the worst trouble) came to show me her beautiful skin :D It is working SO well, and we've tried all sorts of things. Isn't it a relief to find something that works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverland Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Oh. My. Word. DD came home from college with horrible acne. Thanks to this board, I purchased chelated zinc & witch hazel. After just 3 days of treatment her face shows a dramatic...huge...improvement. This morning, she said "Mom, look at my face!" I assumed she had multiple layers of cover-up on because it looked so good. Nope, it was all natural. She did: 1. 30 mg daily of zinc chelate (Nature's Way) 2. Applied witch hazel 2x/day (T.N. Dickinson's) I don't know if just one of these treatments would be as effective, or if it is the combination that works so well. I will try to convince her to stop one of the treatments and see what happens. (I had intended to make the witch hazel/ green tea/ apple cider vinegar mix, but she didn't want that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Barb, I've been meaning to come back to this thread. I've been taking extra zinc since you posted, although I stopped all vitamins a few weeks ago due to Strep and resumed zinc supplements about 10 days later. Even when I was sick, I didn't have a pimple, so it really does work. I've had skin problems since my pregnancy and it's the hormones, I think. I honestly hoped and thought that by my mid-30’s I would never again go back to my teenage years, but it got worse from getting pregnant. I haven't had the time to figure out what it is about zinc that helps alleviate acne. Anyone happen to know? By the way, thank you, Barb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I just wanted to add that when I was tracking my food with Sparkpeople -- and eating super healthy -- I was always low in zinc. (magnesium as well). My 12 year old is starting to get a bit of acne, so I'm going to start trying to head it off. Just gave him 30 mg of quality zinc. Edited June 28, 2012 by nestof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I haven't had the time to figure out what it is about zinc that helps alleviate acne. Anyone happen to know? Zinc is good for respiratory illness too, so I imagine it works by strengthening the immune system? Still, it's fascinating how quickly it works in most people, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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