1 in 2 grads do not have jobs

[Miss Marple]

Interesting in light of the recent threads on planning early for future earnings and the value of a particular degree.

 

Perhaps more than ever, the choices that young adults make earlier in life — level of schooling, academic field and training, where to attend college, how to pay for it — are having long-lasting financial impact.

 

"You can make more money on average if you go to college, but it's not true for everybody," says Harvard economist Richard Freeman, noting the growing risk of a debt bubble with total U.S. student loan debt surpassing $1 trillion. "If you're not sure what you're going to be doing, it probably bodes well to take some job, if you can get one, and get a sense first of what you want from college."

 

http://news.yahoo.com/1-2-graduates-jobless-underemployed-140300522.html

[RobinL in Canada]

I read that article today too. I hope it's not as bad here in Canada : ( My oldest son, 22, recently completed a Theatre Arts degree and is moving back home shortly from his college up north ...but what to do then? (He does has an offer to be signed by an agent in Toronto, though, so there's some possibility of prospects, but as my youngest pointed out, most actors end up working in the food industry ; ) ) Son #2 has just completed his first year at U of Waterloo, aiming to major in Psychology, and is already talking about his graduate school plans, so he may become a professional student, as I was, and look where that got me--teaching homeschool writing classes for peanuts ; ) What are your thoughts about this article, Cynthia?

[AK_Mom4]

I had difficulty sympathizing with the example - the 23yo who graduated with a creative writing degree but doesn't even know what he is looking for in a job. And I will point out that he DID have a job - in a coffee house! That makes him better off than plenty of other folks.

[Miss Marple]

I think that if I had a student who didn't know what he wanted to do for a career I would encourage him to do a lot of other things rather than head off to a 4 year university and rack up a lot of debt.

 

I don't know how I would encourage a student who wanted to major in a field that has few job opportunities. That would be difficult. I'd love to hear how others have approached that. So far my boys have wanted majors that are highly employable. But I still have 2 to go :D

[regentrude]

Everybody knows that not all degrees are created equal. The message should be: choose your major wisely and consider job prospects when calculating how much debt to incur. Nothing new, really.

 

To give some different perspective: at the STEM focused school where I teach, 67% of graduating students have accepted a job offer, and 15% are entering graduate school. Last year's average salary for graduating students was 59.5k (this year's salary data are not yet available)

 

So, while caution is warranted, I see no reason for panic. It would just be unwise to spend a lot of money on a major that has poor chances of leading to employment (the information is readily available). This is something we need to discuss with our kids.

Note the title of the thread does not match the article -- the article states that 50% of recent college grads are unemployed or UNDERemployed.

 

I wonder, though, if many "unskilled" jobs are being taken by college grads, what the unemployment rate (and UNDERemployment, if there is such a thing) of high school grads is?

[Lori D.]

I'd love to hear how others have approached that. So far my boys have wanted majors that are highly employable. But I still have 2 to go :D

 

 

Well, we are "in the midst", Cynthia, so only time will tell if this will work out for us... But we have 2 who are headed in "alternative" directions from the traditional straight from high school to 4-year college degree to work.

 

 

Older DS = graduated homeschool high school last year

Currently going full-time to the local CC, working towards a 2-year Digital Arts degree (film and video production). He is also completing a special program of additional general ed. coursework that all transfers to any of our state's public universities, which allow him to then just have to spend 2 years at the university to complete a 4-year Media Arts (or other Arts/Humanities) Bachelor's. At the moment, his interest is most specifically in post production (editing), and production (camera crew). Salaries run about $40-50,000/year. I think he actually has some good natural skills at editing, but that field is pretty flat as far as growth, so it will be harder for him to find a job; in that industry, it's mostly about "who you know".

 

So, how will we encourage him? We'll wait and see where his interests are in 2 years once he has the 2-year degree and the transfer program completed first. His interests may have shifted somewhat by that time. Otherwise, we'll encourage him to look for a job in the field, and if nothing turns up, then to continue on to the university to complete a 4-year degree -- perhaps in something that would give him more job search flexibility. Another option would be to see if he is interested in branching out into related digital arts areas -- graphic design, software specialist (Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.) -- which, also with the video/film production could open doors to work as part of a bigger company's in-house video/print department which hires only a few people, but who are able to take care of all of those different needs.

 

I think we just need to wait and see where DS is in his interests and plans in 2 years...

 

 

Younger DS = grade 12

NO idea what he wants to do, but definitely NOT STEM. At the moment, he's taking dual enrollment at the CC with ASL (sign language) courses and really enjoying that, so the "plan du jour" is for him to start full time at the CC in the fall, and work towards the ASL Interpreter degree -- it will probably take 3 years, as it requires a bit more coursework before you can even apply to enter the program. However, the one up-side to this is that interpreting for the deaf is so female-dominated, that as the rare man entering the field, he would be assured of a job and additionally most likely be able to dictate what specific area he wants to work in -- courtroom/government; theater/arts; classroom; etc. Another up-side: due to technical advancements (online video, video conferencing, skype, etc.) the field is expected to grow dramatically in the next few years. The pay is between $35,000-$50,000/year. At least it would be an employable skill he could use while he changes his mind and tries to figure out what he wants as a career (he is of the personality type that needs variety, so any job is going to have to either regularly change, or he will be regularly changing jobs...).

 

 

We will have no problems covering the costs of the CC degrees with the college money we've been saving since they were born. However, the public university costs in our state have skyrocketed, so by the time older DS gets there, we will be certainly hoping for scholarship money, grants, and DS working to help cover that last year of university ($10,000+).

 

 

And, hey, if anyone wants to look up things like future outlook and pay levels of specific jobs, check out the Occupational Outlook Handbook, put out by the US Dept. of Labor.

 

 

So, what is everyone else doing post high school, and how is it all working out? Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Lori D.

[creekland]

Everybody knows that not all degrees are created equal. The message should be: choose your major wisely and consider job prospects when calculating how much debt to incur. Nothing new, really.

 

To give some different perspective: at the STEM focused school where I teach, 67% of graduating students have accepted a job offer, and 15% are entering graduate school. Last year's average salary for graduating students was 59.5k (this year's salary data are not yet available)

 

So, while caution is warranted, I see no reason for panic. It would just be unwise to spend a lot of money on a major that has poor chances of leading to employment (the information is readily available). This is something we need to discuss with our kids.

 

:iagree:

 

So far, my two are heading off to 4 year schools with plans to major in fields where there are still jobs and those jobs more than pay enough to pay off what they'll have in debt (NOT high debt < $30,000 each for all 4 years). We have not taken on any additional debt ourselves, nor have we paid much out of pocket so far.

 

If middle son opts for, and gets into, med school, he might end up with high debt. We'll cross that bridge when (and if) it happens.

 

Youngest will be a junior next year, so we'll start seriously looking at colleges for him once he gets some real scores.

 

Whether college is important to a student or not depends 100% upon what they want to be doing and whether that job requires a degree. But even then, employers want to hire those at the top of their class, not the bottom. It doesn't surprise me that many students can't find jobs in their field. I would suspect it correlates well not only with degree, but also school the degree came from (and whether it's well-known in its field), and GPA of the student at college. We screen our schools carefully AND I remind my guys that job-life is a competition where not everyone gets a trophy. You have to prove yourself and have the right credentials.

[Jane in NC]

I have mixed feelings about article like this. While I always think it is wise to consider financial realities, I think that big pictures are sometimes lost while examining the immediate progress of one particular group.

 

Among the recessions I have known is the one that occurred when I was an undergrad. It was common, in those days, for students to begin in less than glamouroous entry level positions or in unrelated fields while continuing to look for a "real" job.

 

We had a number of friends who did Manpower work (often light industry) while looking for work after undergrad and grad school. Jobs do not always fall into one's lap within a few weeks or even months.

 

I think there is also a mixed message being sent that factory jobs in this country are "unskilled" and do not require education. Employers are regularly complaining that they cannot find workers with the level of technological savvy and knowledge needed to run computerized lines. Granted, this may not be a job requiring a four year degree, but I have a relative who works as a manager for an industrial company who started out on the lines. He has a business degree and certifications related to his industry. His first job with the company would probably have been considered "underemployment" for his educational level.

 

Herein lies another nugget to consider regarding college debt: an average salary for a field is not an average starting salary! Further, the number of companies (not just non-profits) that have exploited "interns" without pay instead of hiring real employees has skyrocketed! Even companies like GE which pay handsome salaries at the top and good dividends do not feel it necessary to pay for jobs that once were once considered door openers. Now they bring in interns without pay on the promise of a possible job, only to toss them out for the next group of interns. This one is a bee in my bonnet!

Edited April 23, 2012 by Jane in NC

[Gwen in VA]

And some students are busy enough their senior year that they can't think of yet another thing, so the job search gets put on the back burner until after graduation.

 

And some seniors have an "epiphany" about their chosen career path that changes their plans so they need to spend some time thinking through their next step. Sometimes the "epiphany" can result in a path that is not extremely different than the one planned, but sometimes the "epiphany" can dramatically change things so the senior needs time to reflect.

[Jane in NC]

On a related note, I cannot tell you how many of my friends' children opted for something like Teach for America or AmeriCorps for a year after graduation while thinking about their next step--usually a grad or professional program.

 

One of my nieces was undecided between two fields for graduate work. She spent the year after undergrad doing research in Central America, now is in grad school. In many fields, a graduate or professional level degree is--or was--a necessity. Maybe that will change if fewer students choose to go to college. (Despite all of these articles along the lines of "Is College Worth it?" I have yet to see reports that enrollments are declining.)

[Nan in Mass]

Gwen - Good point. I have one of these seniors. He will leave school unemployed. He has plans that don't involve employment for the next three or four months. Then it will probably take him awhile to find a job. He is in a highly employable field, so nobody is worried. We were much more worried about him getting through his capstone project and exams successfully. He is going to look like one of those statistics. Statistics aren't always what they appear on the surface.

[Tarreymere]

My six adult kids pretty much refused to go to college. I have a college degree and so does my husband so this was upsetting to us initially. I have never thought college was an important social experience and I never had any of those exciting professors or fascinating discussions other people write about, but I did think a college degree in a field that jobs were available after graduation was a good idea despite running up some debt. My own kids proved me wrong. They are all pretty successful, followed their interests and exploited a few niches that existed locally and have done very well, making enough money to have a comfortable lifestyle by local standards. In fact, they all make nearly as much or more money than my dh, who works in social services in a job that requires a degree and they have no student loan debt.

 

I homeschool with the idea that when a child graduates he or she should be able to choose to apply to a competitive school and stand a chance at admission. But I no longer expect it.

[SkateLeft]

That article points out that the choices kids make early on is having a long lasting financial impact. My goal is to make sure that regardless of what my children choose to major in, that they understand the ramifications of that choice. I want them to be able to make educated decisions about their future with all the financial data that I can provide.

 

I can't make choices for her. I can ensure that she's as educated as possible about the choices she makes.

 

Even though my daughter wants to pursue engineering, she needs to have some idea of what comes after graduation. If she chooses to switch majors midway through college, that's okay, but I want her to know the possible financial impact that might have.

 

My husband has a graduate degree in computer science. He's explained to her that it's important (and hard!) to get internships during the summers, because that job experience is key to getting employed after you graduate. His company hires from the pool of interns that works for them. A recent graduate with a BS in CS and no work experience is unlikely to be brought in for an interview.

 

So we've spent time this year pouring over employment statistics, job prospects, entry level salary data, and cost of living. We look at debt calculators, and job listings. I've gone through our taxes, pay stubs and mortgage statements with her. We've talked about auto expenses, life insurance and health care. My parents never showed me any of this, but I want her to know what it takes to maintain a family.

 

It's funny that high school students are often required to take a class in economics without actually learning any of the practicalities of the subject.

[RobinL in Canada]

Just a comment: when I saw that the poor underemployed barrista in the article had a Creative Writing degree, I had to hold back a snort of laughter. Creative Writing--really? What sort of employment did he *think*he would get with such a BA? Now I'm all for creative writing myself--I have a graduate degree in it along with others in English--but to expect to make a living based on that is just short-sighted.

 

I do agree with the poster who said that heading off to a 4-yr university right after high school with no specific plans is a very expensive way to "find oneself." Unless a student clearly knows what he wishes to pursue (granting that plans can change along the way), I'm all for taking a gap year to work and research possibilities, which is what my three oldest sons have decided to do.

[Miss Marple]

Unless a student clearly knows what he wishes to pursue (granting that plans can change along the way), I'm all for taking a gap year to work and research possibilities

 

:iagree: Unfortunately life has changed since I was in college. It was cheap enough to spend extra time deciding on a major. I graduated high school at 16 and entered college having just turned 17. I knew I wanted to do something "medical", but there were so many exciting possibilities. I took classes for nursing (decided that the smells were NOT going to work for me), I looked into biomedical engineering (very hard and wasn't sure I could do it), pre-med (after working at the medical school I decided I didn't want to spend forever in school), and I landed in pharmacy - a perfect fit!

 

But I could attend full time (lived locally at home and worked 20 hours per week on campus) for just $650 per semester. I was able to take some classes that had nothing to do with my final major which I still remember fondly - not something my sons have been able to do.

 

Today I would encourage my sons to take classes at the CC and spend time investigating job possibilities. I think a couple of years more in age is necessary for some of our kids in order for them to get a more solid idea of what they want out of life.

[Gwen in VA]

It's unfortunate that college is so expensive.

 

While I do think that kids should enter college with some vague idea of what they want out of their education, kids in their late teens are still growing and changing. Sometimes a summer job/internship or a particular class can make a student decide to LEAVE a field or to pursue that field further.

 

Unfortunately, that pivotal class or experience may not happen until junior or senior year, despite that best intentions.

 

For example, my dd wanted to become an art conservator. She had extensive classes and internships in the field, but only before her senior year did she decide that she wanted to do research and not conservation work. Related fields, but with VERY different graduate school paths. Happily she was able to make the switch quickly, but my point is that some realizations may not happen until junior or senior year of college, not matter how well-intentioned and well-prepared and well-focused the kid is!

[LisaKinVA]

Many of these children do not know how to look for a job, or even use the career placement center at their college. Nor are they interested in learning.

 

Many of these children have parents who are of no help in this, either. My dh and I were continually told we "needed to get good grades, so we could go to college." And, with the caveat, that we'd have to figure out how to pay for it ourselves, because they couldn't do it. (I had the additional boundary of my parents only "approving" of my attending Pensacola, Bob Jones or Liberty :tongue_smilie:)

 

We didn't know anything about the PSAT/NMS programs, school counselors didn't counsel...dh went to more or less an engineering school (and is kicking himself because he didn't take the engineering track...no one counseled him on why one would be better than the other...it didn't occur to him at the time it would make a BIG difference 20 years later). I did look into what options were for my prospective major...but I'm the odd-kind-of-duck who planned my high school years in the 6th grade, with an eye towards Stanford (my dad's Alma-mater). I think the closest thing to counseling I got was an interests/abilities survey. I did take the PSAT my sophomore year...but didn't realize what a big deal it was to take it my junior year. If I had, I probably would have done quite well (my dad was a NMSF...CA State Scholar). My SAT's and ACT's weren't shabby...good enough to get me some solid merit-aid offers.

 

But, I knew a LOT of kids who didn't know what to expect, let alone what to do. I at least knew how to find out! I would expect that hasn't changed. The high schoolers I have taught, for the most part, expect to be spoon-fed everything. They've been taught "what" to think (for the most part), not "how" to think. They've been taught to "follow their dreams" -- not to balance those dreams against employment realities.

 

The "wrong" college degree (with high debt) is probably worse than NO college degree.

[creekland]

It's unfortunate that college is so expensive.

 

While I do think that kids should enter college with some vague idea of what they want out of their education, kids in their late teens are still growing and changing. Sometimes a summer job/internship or a particular class can make a student decide to LEAVE a field or to pursue that field further.

 

Unfortunately, that pivotal class or experience may not happen until junior or senior year, despite that best intentions.

 

For example, my dd wanted to become an art conservator. She had extensive classes and internships in the field, but only before her senior year did she decide that she wanted to do research and not conservation work. Related fields, but with VERY different graduate school paths. Happily she was able to make the switch quickly, but my point is that some realizations may not happen until junior or senior year of college, not matter how well-intentioned and well-prepared and well-focused the kid is!

 

:iagree: I've flat out told my kids that they might find something they like better than what they've chosen once they get into college and I'm ok with that. I changed my major sophomore year due to being told in a class, "I hope you like what you're doing as you're going to be doing this every day." My thought was, "uh, no I'm not!" and I started looking for another major. Being on an AFROTC scholarship, the majors I could choose were limited, but Physics/Math was a MUCH better fit for me.

 

As a high schooler one simply has no idea exactly how much is out there or what can be done with various majors. There's no way I need my boys to have their lives mapped out at that age. I want them to have ideas of what they like and where they're headed - just to get a start. But once they get going, we're open to changes (well thought out changes) to get a better fit.

 

 

But, I knew a LOT of kids who didn't know what to expect, let alone what to do. I at least knew how to find out! I would expect that hasn't changed. The high schoolers I have taught, for the most part, expect to be spoon-fed everything. They've been taught "what" to think (for the most part), not "how" to think. They've been taught to "follow their dreams" -- not to balance those dreams against employment realities.

 

 

I run into this a LOT at school. It's frustrating. They've also been raised to think that everybody wins - if you graduate high school you get a job and or get into college - if you graduate college you get a better job, etc. They don't realize that it's ALL competitive, especially in this economy. It's not just completing a degree that counts. It's being proactive, having good character, and graduating near (or at) the top of your class that opens many doors. It takes all of those, not just one or two. The fewer you have, the less opportunities you'll have.

 

I know a person who graduated with an "in demand" 4 year degree. They've had several jobs including one with a 6 figure salary, but they can't keep the jobs and have ended up in a dead end - no college needed - minimum wage job. Why? No people skills. There's only so much other workers (and bosses) will put up with. Are they willing to change their ways? Of course not. They're right and everyone else is wrong, of course! (And "college is worthless..." in their eyes.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Just a comment: when I saw that the poor underemployed barrista in the article had a Creative Writing degree, I had to hold back a snort of laughter. Creative Writing--really? What sort of employment did he *think*he would get with such a BA? Now I'm all for creative writing myself--I have a graduate degree in it along with others in English--but to expect to make a living based on that is just short-sighted.

 

I do agree with the poster who said that heading off to a 4-yr university right after high school with no specific plans is a very expensive way to "find oneself." Unless a student clearly knows what he wishes to pursue (granting that plans can change along the way), I'm all for taking a gap year to work and research possibilities, which is what my three oldest sons have decided to do.

 

I had a similar reaction to the creative writing degree. I love reading and writing. But I've always thought that there was an inverse relationship between having a degree in writing and actually making money writing.

 

I just don't think that you can spend tens of thousands of dollars pursuing your bliss in your choice of college coursework, with no regard to the supply and demand in jobs, and then expect to have equal chances of employment.