Why is grammar important?

[bethben]

I'm in the midst of deciding between two curriculums. So, why does one teach English grammar? Do they really need to know present/past participle - all those tenses - especially if they're learning Latin? Or, is the point of English grammar to improve their writing? If I just had them focus on diagramming past 6th grade to help them see where their writing is needing improvement, would that be enough? Do they need to know things like what a correlative conjunction is or a what the different pronouns are called?

 

Thanks!

 

Beth

[Lucy the Valiant]

(1) to practice the skill of breaking down something complex into its basic parts, realizing that function determines classification

(2) to know *why* certain constructions are right or wrong in writing

(3) to open windows of appreciation and understanding into many jokes, cultural references, and books

 

Those are my reasons, but I'm sure there are more (or fewer)! :)

[5LittleMonkeys]

Listen to this.:D

 

Martin Cothran is the one introducing Andrew Peduwa. It is a lecture from the 2010 Indianapolis Mini-Convention.

[Ellie]

The point of studying English grammar is to be able to use the language well in writing as well as in speech. Also, if you know those terms, it's much easier to have discussions when you're making corrections; you can say, "Dear, you need to use the objective form of a pronoun following a preposition, not the subjective form," instead of, "See this word here? Well, it's wrong. You need to use this other one instead. I dunno why...it just doesn't sound right." :)

 

I don't think it needs to be taught every year for 12 years, though.

[bethben]

Listen to this.:D

 

Martin Cothran is the one introducing Andrew Peduwa. It is a lecture from the 2010 Indianapolis Mini-Convention.

 

Thank you! This is something to think about and really makes me think. All of a sudden, the path is a bit clearer. The Latin will give the grammar he needs and the other program will help with his writing. Now to consider the rest of my students and what my goals are for them.

 

Now the question is -- do I start Latin with my 2nd grader as his grammar program (in addition to the basic IEW writing he will do)?

 

Beth

Edited April 17, 2012 by bethben

[edeemarie]

Listen to this.:D

 

Martin Cothran is the one introducing Andrew Peduwa. It is a lecture from the 2010 Indianapolis Mini-Convention.

 

What an incredible talk! A lot to think about- glad you posted this link!

[5LittleMonkeys]

Now the question is -- do I start Latin with my 2nd grader as his grammar program (in addition to the basic IEW writing he will do)?

 

Beth

 

Well, I will tell you what I did with dd and will do with my other dc right before we start Latin (after phonics is completed). We have been reading through Grammar-Land by ML Nesbit. It is a wonderful story about the inhabitants of Grammar-Land and their discussions in front of Judge Grammar to determine what words belong to which person. Each person, Mr. Noun, Little Article, Dr. Verb, to name a few, must each put before the Judge their proof that certain words belong to them.

 

It a wonderful, gentle introduction to the basic parts of speech and their basic functions. The perfect way to form a few pegs on which to hang the more detail they will receive in Latin and composition exercises.

[edeemarie]

Well, I will tell you what I did with dd and will do with my other dc right before we start Latin (after phonics is completed). We have been reading through Grammar-Land by ML Nesbit. It is a wonderful story about the inhabitants of Grammar-Land and their discussions in front of Judge Grammar to determine what words belong to which person. Each person, Mr. Noun, Little Article, Dr. Verb, to name a few, must each put before the Judge their proof that certain words belong to them.

 

It a wonderful, gentle introduction to the basic parts of speech and their basic functions. The perfect way to form a few pegs on which to hang the more detail they will receive in Latin and composition exercises.

 

This is exactly what we are planning to do for the summer. Is there a certain Latin program that is more grammar based than others, or do most of them work to help understand grammar?

[bethben]

This is my synopsis of Andrew Pudewa:

1. Read to your kids - 1-2 hours a day to increase intuitive grammar (grammar you know just because you speak it)

 

2. Memorize - he recommends anything (dance steps, music, facts), but especially likes poetry

3. Latin - as early as you can - if you actually have to use grammar, it will stick better.

4. When they get to the point of writing decently, editing excercises

 

5. Writing (using IEW) because you again are using grammar for your writing.

 

Beth

[5LittleMonkeys]

This is exactly what we are planning to do for the summer. Is there a certain Latin program that is more grammar based than others, or do most of them work to help understand grammar?

 

 

I'm researching this right now. I don't think you can study Latin without including grammar. It seems to come down to choosing something that clicks with you and your dc.

 

I'm leaning toward using Visual Latin and Lively Latin with dd, but I'm not finished exploring all the options yet.

[NittanyJen]

Why teach grammar?

 

All of the previous answers :)

 

My son asked me to explain indirect objects to him. I set up the white board with the definition of I.o. At the top, then the sentence, "I kicked Lucas the ball." written out, with 'Lucas' in red and all the parts of the sentence marked (both parts of speech and sections like subject/predicate). Then we diagrammed it.

 

Then in the corner, I set up a "writing lab" challenge: how does the focus of the sentence, and your expectation of what should happen next, change if we move Lucas out of the i.o. and into a prep. phrase: "I kicked the ball to Lucas?"

 

(to Lucas in red, sentence diagrammed).

 

We talked about how the paragraph would naturally flow quite differently after each of these choices (in one, the reader anticipates following the action of the ball; in the other, the reader expects Lucas to do something exciting with the ball) and how a really powerful writer can command the language to do his bidding if he understands these kinds of changes, and how and why they work.

 

Most adults, even those who write well, cannot tell you the difference between a transitive and an intransitive verb, or what on earth an appositive noun might be. This fact does not mean grammar instruction in grade school is unimportant. Teaching kids why word choices and grammatical constructs matter, and showing them how they apply to strong, clear writing, will have benefits long after they have forgotten the list of prepositions. Writing will not feel like a random, hit and miss proposition belonging only to a select few. Anybody can write reasonably well by applying carefully the rules of grammar and style in context.

The ultimate goal of grammar instruction is not to be corrective or descriptive, but, to be constructive. It is not enough to merely be able to write correctly. High school age students should be learning to write forcefully and convincingly.

 

This requires them to use all the tools of language, and to be able to reason about the language. The grammatical rules are the starting points for those tools.

[leeannpal]

The point of studying English grammar is to be able to use the language well in writing as well as in speech. Also, if you know those terms, it's much easier to have discussions when you're making corrections; you can say, "Dear, you need to use the objective form of a pronoun following a preposition, not the subjective form," instead of, "See this word here? Well, it's wrong. You need to use this other one instead. I dunno why...it just doesn't sound right." :)

 

I don't think it needs to be taught every year for 12 years, though.

 

I agree that the proper terms help kids understand the "why" of our language. In your pronoun example the two forms are objective and nominative.