What do you think of Bob Jones University?

[G5052]

From what I know, they do a decent job academically.

 

The problem is that there is indeed a negative connotation in the secular world. I was on a number of hiring committees during my research and federal government years, and I can tell you that certain schools meant that the committee put aside the resume. Regardless of everything else, where the degrees came from did count. Religious schools known for controversy (i.e. Bob Jones, Liberty University) were a negative, but the less controversial ones were OK (i.e. Wheaton, Baylor). I just can't see saddling a young person with that sort of things for life, regardless of how beneficial their education was.

 

And even if I had a child planning for a career as a missionary or such, I'd still think through all of the ramifications. Not everyone stays in the ministry, and certainly there are schools that would prepare someone for that without as much controversy.

[Jennifer3141]

I'm not a BJU supporter (for starters, my parents have an interracial marriage!), but here's a fact -- there is a tenured professor of physics at a respected East Coast university whose undergraduate degree is from BJU. My husband is a physicist and says this guy is one of the smartest people he's ever met. Obviously he was accepted at a good graduate school, where he earned his PhD (sorry, I can't remember where; my husband would know). Now, it's entirely possible that b/c this man is so brilliant he aced his GREs and that offset any BJU stigma ... but just wanted to throw this out there.

 

Creekland, I will check out your data in that thread -- thanks!

 

DH is on a committee to review medical students applications. He's an atheist but many of his coworkers are Catholic, Baptist, whatever.

 

EVERYONE looked at the BJU on this person's application and laughed. No one even bothered opening it. It went into the discard pile.

 

I'm sure BJU has graduated more than one intelligent person in its history. But I am more sure that a degree from BJU was more of a hindrance in professional circles.

[acurtis75]

Check out Houston Baptist and Masters College in California.

[Haiku]

Cedarville College in Ohio?

 

Cedarville is the butt of many jokes 'round here. People pretty much have the opinion that Cedarville grads are freaky, narrow-minded weirdos. I know a Cedarville grad and don't think she is a freaky weirdo, but I do think she has an extremely narrow worldview. ETA: And she is a teacher, and I think her extremely narrow worldview has hindered her ability to teach effectively.

 

Tara

Edited April 6, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator

[DawnM]

I am sure they are not all like BJU or Pensacola Bible College, but as soon as someone says Independent Fundamental Baptist I cringe a bit inside. In fact, the word Fundamental can send me seeking someone else to talk to. :D

 

Just so you know, not all Independent Baptists are that far out there/intolerant. :)

[athomemom]

Honestly, I think it is prejudice to just toss aside a resume because of where one goes to school and not give them the time of day. If you were talking about a different school that wasn't Christian the notion of a hate crime would be brought up. But boy you can pick on the Christians all you want. It's sad to me. Everyone wants diversity unless the diversity isn't what they like.

I am a christian, but this is what I was concerned about. I would love to find a christian college that had a good reputation with not only christians but with the secular world as well. I had no idea BJU had/has so many issues. Thanks everyone!

 

Most of the Jesuit colleges have stellar reputations in the secular world, assuming they fit your definition of "Christian".

[SailorMom]

Honestly, I think it is prejudice to just toss aside a resume because of where one goes to school and not give them the time of day. If you were talking about a different school that wasn't Christian the notion of a hate crime would be brought up. But boy you can pick on the Christians all you want. It's sad to me. Everyone wants diversity unless the diversity isn't what they like.

 

 

I don't think they do it for that reason, though. If they were throwing out ALL the applications from ANY Christian college, sure, but they aren't. They just know that BJU (and Pensacola CC) are not to be taken seriously academically.

 

No offense, but I wouldn't want to hire anyone who would be willing to give either one of those institutions their money - to me that would be the same as embracing their bigotry.

[DawnM]

I think it has more to do with accreditation than the fact that it is Christian.

 

However, I will say that Bob Jones has a reputation for thinking they are one of the only TRUE Christian groups. Other denominations aren't "quite Christian enough." They are against even Christian music that isn't in the form of hymns or choruses. Anything with a beat or more modern that uses drums or anything but piano and an organ are deemed "inappropriate."

 

I don't think this particular group fits the profile of "picking on Christians."

 

Dawn

 

Honestly, I think it is prejudice to just toss aside a resume because of where one goes to school and not give them the time of day. If you were talking about a different school that wasn't Christian the notion of a hate crime would be brought up. But boy you can pick on the Christians all you want. It's sad to me. Everyone wants diversity unless the diversity isn't what they like.

[TXMary2]

DH is on a committee to review medical students applications. He's an atheist but many of his coworkers are Catholic, Baptist, whatever.

 

EVERYONE looked at the BJU on this person's application and laughed. No one even bothered opening it. It went into the discard pile.

 

I'm sure BJU has graduated more than one intelligent person in its history. But I am more sure that a degree from BJU was more of a hindrance in professional circles.

 

 

Not a fan of BJU, but this is just disgusting and blatant discrimination. Sounds pretty hateful actually.

[cathmom]

You're too young to know! ;)

[Tammyla]

I've only met two graduates and both were very well educated. They were married; he was a US attorney.

[GWOB]

I've always thought they should have, at the very least, called themselves Robert Jones University. ;)

 

 

:lol: My dh laughed like 12yo boy when we received the BJU catalog.

 

As a Christian, I wouldn't touch BJU with a 39 1/2ft pole.

[Jennifer3141]

Not a fan of BJU, but this is just disgusting and blatant discrimination. Sounds pretty hateful actually.

 

Not really. You have to have a foundation of logic and real science to be in medicine. This school is renowned in the academic community for being incredibly soft on both. No one has time to re-educate students from scratch.

[TXMary2]

Not really. You have to have a foundation of logic and real science to be in medicine. This school is renowned in the academic community for being incredibly soft on both. No one has time to re-educate students from scratch.

 

Sorry, doesn't fly. If his application wasn't even opened, there was no knowledge of the applicant's test scores. It was blatant discrimination based on religion. I am always amused by the intolerance of those who cry for tolerance of their beliefs.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Not a fan of BJU, but this is just disgusting and blatant discrimination. Sounds pretty hateful actually.

 

 

No it isn't. BJU has chosen to teach certain philosophies and hold certain positions that hurt its reputation in many circles. Graduates of the school are not being discriminated against, but they are experiencing the consequences of those decisions.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sorry, doesn't fly. If his application wasn't even opened, there was no knowledge of the applicant's test scores. It was blatant discrimination based on religion. I am always amused by the intolerance of those who cry for tolerance of their beliefs.

 

Yes, it flies. The same would occur to an applicant from any school which is not fully accredited and with a reputation of not being academically sound.

[cathmom]

Not a fan of BJU, but this is just disgusting and blatant discrimination. Sounds pretty hateful actually.

 

Kind of like how BJU views Catholics.

 

I have cousins who attended there and have done well within their own Christian circles. I have read the BJU literature. I would never, ever go there. I have never even considered buying homeschool curriculum from them. I would never give them my money, and as someone said earlier, I would have a very hard time with the idea of hiring someone who gave them money.

[Haiku]

Sorry, doesn't fly. If his application wasn't even opened, there was no knowledge of the applicant's test scores. It was blatant discrimination based on religion. I am always amused by the intolerance of those who cry for tolerance of their beliefs.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with people tossing applications from graduates of unaccredited programs, especially medicine. I know they are accredited now, but if they were unaccredited when the situation took place, I don't have a problem with it. If you go to a school that is not accredited, expect that you won't have as many doors open for you.

 

Tara

[mommaduck]

Sorry, doesn't fly. If his application wasn't even opened, there was no knowledge of the applicant's test scores. It was blatant discrimination based on religion. I am always amused by the intolerance of those who cry for tolerance of their beliefs.

What do test scores have to do with anything, if they are being taught the wrong things and tested on those?

 

There are many Christian schools that would not be tossed out. BJU is, because it is well known to have certain academic limitations in certain fields of study AND it's well known to have racial discrimination practices (though supposedly "apologised" for, that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot given the circumstances and history).

[abacus2]

I would never support them. I refuse to look at their homeschooling curriculum.

 

My grandparents went there. They served as missionaries. If i am remembering the story correctly, BJU sent a message to their alumni telling them to take my grandparents off their prayer lists because their ministry had some association with Billy Graham. Billy Graham?! Don't pray for those missionaries?! Not anything resembling what I consider true Christianity.

[EKS]

Its reputation in the secular world is not good as far as bigotry is concerned. I don't know about their academic reputation.

 

I'll be honest. If I was an employer and saw that an applicant for a job went to BJU, it would give me pause.

[kitten18]

No it isn't. BJU has chosen to teach certain philosophies and hold certain positions that hurt its reputation in many circles. Graduates of the school are not being discriminated against, but they are experiencing the consequences of those decisions.

I completely agree.

[Jennifer3141]

Kind of like how BJU views Catholics.

 

I have cousins who attended there and have done well within their own Christian circles. I have read the BJU literature. I would never, ever go there. I have never even considered buying homeschool curriculum from them. I would never give them my money, and as someone said earlier, I would have a very hard time with the idea of hiring someone who gave them money.

 

Exactly. BJU has a TERRIBLE reputation within the academic community. You cannot be a serious, scientifically minded individual and think interracial dating is going to send you to heck.

 

Now if you want to believe that, then you have a smaller group of civilization to "play around" with.

 

And you should probably be mindful that your application for employment just may be read over by a Bolivian Catholic doctor or a female UU church deacon or an atheist. And if you want to be taken seriously, attending a school that actively discriminates against THEM might not be the best idea... :glare:

Even the evangelical Baptist had no problem tossing that application. :D

[Mimm]

There are a number of things that get an application tossed on the discard pile. It can be a couple misspelled words on the cover letter. If something as minor as that can get you disqualified, I see absolutely nothing wrong with disqualifying someone based on where they chose to spend four years and thousands of dollars.

[angela in ohio]

Have you looked at Calvin College? Or Hillsdale?

[G5052]

And you should probably be mindful that your application for employment just may be read over by a Bolivian Catholic doctor or a female UU church deacon or an atheist. And if you want to be taken seriously, attending a school that actively discriminates against THEM might not be the best idea... :glare:

 

 

If you go to a university that causes a negative emotional reaction in someone reviewing your application, you ability to compete with others for professional positions in the secular marketplace might be limited. Even if the policies have changed and/or it is accredited now, you can't do away with the history that exists in some individual's minds. Some people might not key on it, but some might.

 

Is that discrimination? Perhaps, but in very selective situations, if they don't key on that, they'll find some other reason to eliminate the application if the BJU degree bothers them. If you are in a group of 50-100 resumes or more, any flaw will be found and used to eliminate you. I remember sitting in on a discussion of an applicant who had a BJUP undergraduate degree and PhD from a well-known, secular university. The committee keyed on the BJU degree, but then also noted that the person's PhD research was in an area that the committee didn't think very much of. So the BJU degree led to further scrutiny, and then they found a reason to put aside the resume. The only way you rise to the top of that sort of process is to have a very "straight" academic and professional history.

[Hannah C.]

I would never go to BJU. When I was a homeschooled student my mother refused to buy their curriculum because of their opinions of Catholics and other groups.

 

There are many other Christian colleges which don't leave such a bad taste in so many mouths. There are also quite a few excellent Catholic colleges which have stellar academics, such as my alma mater. :)

[jubilation]

Its reputation in the secular world is not good as far as bigotry is concerned. I don't know about their academic reputation.

 

I'll be honest. If I was an employer and saw that an applicant for a job went to BJU, it would give me pause.

 

I don't know much about their academic reputation, but I can certainly understand tossing a med school application from BJU for the bigotry reputation alone.

 

I'm sure the medical school educators don't want to be stuck with a student whom they find at a critical time has a tendency to treat patients differently based on religion, race, marital status, orientation, etc. Not a good situation. Tolerance is a prerequisite for being a good doctor, IMO. It's not all about test scores and technical expertise.

 

However, I will say that I have a cousin who graduated from BJU recently. I know nothing about his career prospects (though I'm pretty sure he intends to work solely for conservative Christian employers), but I do know that he married a woman of another race, and started dating her while they were both attending BJU. As far as I know, they were not hassled by the uni for dating.

[Haiku]

No it isn't. BJU has chosen to teach certain philosophies and hold certain positions that hurt its reputation in many circles. Graduates of the school are not being discriminated against, but they are experiencing the consequences of those decisions.

 

And beyond that, from my perspective it looks like some Christians want it both ways. They'll go to court to defend their religiously based "right" to exclude people, but when others use their own beliefs to exclude a Christian, that's not ok and they cry foul.

 

The reality is, where you choose to go to college says something about the beliefs you hold. If Christians want the right to be selective based on their religious values, they have to accept that they will also probably end up on the receiving end of such action at some point.

 

Tara

[J-rap]

From what I've heard it's a very good school academically, and we've used some of their homeschool material. But, for the same reasons others have listed, I would not want my children to go there. And we are Christians.

[susankenny]

I've always thought they should have, at the very least, called themselves Robert Jones University. ;)

 

Favorite answer!:D

 

 

Susan

[TXMary2]

I wouldn't have a problem with people tossing applications from graduates of unaccredited programs, especially medicine. I know they are accredited now, but if they were unaccredited when the situation took place, I don't have a problem with it. If you go to a school that is not accredited, expect that you won't have as many doors open for you.

 

Tara

 

I have no problem with that, but it clearly wasn't that, otherwise there was no nee for the poster to mention her dh was an athiest or what the religion of the others were. Clearly, it was discrimination if they didn't even open the application.

[Haiku]

I have no problem with that, but it clearly wasn't that, otherwise there was no nee for the poster to mention her dh was an athiest or what the religion of the others were. Clearly, it was discrimination if they didn't even open the application.

 

I don't see it that way. I think that the poster was trying to point out that it wasn't just the godless heathens who had a problem with the BJU application. Religious people did, too. Their concerns went beyond the religious aspects.

 

Tara

[TXMary2]

I don't see it that way. I think that the poster was trying to point out that it wasn't just the godless heathens who had a problem with the BJU application. Religious people did, too. Their concerns went beyond the religious aspects.

 

Tara

 

Still, it was ridiculous. Maybe the students parents made him attend there if he wanted them to pay for his education. It is stupid to outright discard someone for something like that. We are supposed to be legally protected from discrimination like that. The student's attendance there doesn't mean he is in lockstep with the university on every issue. It is just as rude as discrimination for any other issue.

 

To the person who asked about test scores - isn't there a standard test that all pre-med people need to take? It isn't as if BJU would have their students take some biased little test and say, "Now go apply for med school."

[Melinda in VT]

Still, it was ridiculous. Maybe the students parents made him attend there if he wanted them to pay for his education. It is stupid to outright discard someone for something like that. We are supposed to be legally protected from discrimination like that. The student's attendance there doesn't mean he is in lockstep with the university on every issue. It is just as rude as discrimination for any other issue.

 

To the person who asked about test scores - isn't there a standard test that all pre-med people need to take? It isn't as if BJU would have their students take some biased little test and say, "Now go apply for med school."

 

There is no legal protection for being discriminated against because you went to a university whose academic rigor is not well-respected. :confused:

 

When you need to whittle a pile of applicants down to a number you can seriously consider, you have to start somewhere. Rejecting applicants from bad schools (be they secular or religious) is an easy way to narrow the number down. I'm sure some otherwise good applicants get cut that way, but it's not illegal.

[Haiku]

Still, it was ridiculous.

 

 

I guess that depends on why you think they tossed his application. To me, it seemed they tossed it because the school's program was not academically acceptable. The poster of that comment went on to state that BJU has a terrible academic reputation.

 

Tara

[mommaduck]

I don't see it that way. I think that the poster was trying to point out that it wasn't just the godless heathens who had a problem with the BJU application. Religious people did, too. Their concerns went beyond the religious aspects.

 

Tara

:iagree:And I'm sure there are other, non-religious, schools that they will just push aside an application over as well. The only reason you actually hear about BJU is because of its notoriety.

[catz]

I guess that depends on why you think they tossed his application. To me, it seemed they tossed it because the school's program was not academically acceptable. The poster of that comment went on to state that BJU has a terrible academic reputation.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: They would do the same for less reputable secular schools too. Competitve programs eliminate applicants for much smaller transcript items than what school they attended for undergrad.

[5knights3maidens]

:iagree:

 

Honestly, I think it is prejudice to just toss aside a resume because of where one goes to school and not give them the time of day. If you were talking about a different school that wasn't Christian the notion of a hate crime would be brought up. But boy you can pick on the Christians all you want. It's sad to me. Everyone wants diversity unless the diversity isn't what they like.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I am sure they are not all like BJU or Pensacola Bible College, but as soon as someone says Independent Fundamental Baptist I cringe a bit inside. In fact, the word Fundamental can send me seeking someone else to talk to. :D

 

I feel the same way in ALL of my experiences. I'm glad to hear it might not be this way everywhere. I will say this is exactly what I expect from Bob Jones Uni.

[wapiti]

. 

 

[Ellesmere]

Cedarville is the butt of many jokes 'round here. People pretty much have the opinion that Cedarville grads are freaky, narrow-minded weirdos. I know a Cedarville grad and don't think she is a freaky weirdo, but I do think she has an extremely narrow worldview. ETA: And she is a teacher, and I think her extremely narrow worldview has hindered her ability to teach effectively.

 

Tara

 

Interesting. I wondered how Cedarville was viewed. I don't know much about Cedarville except that it seemed to be more popular with people who didn't want to deal with some of BJU's rules. But I never thought it had a hugely different worldview from BJU.

I don't think they do it for that reason, though. If they were throwing out ALL the applications from ANY Christian college, sure, but they aren't. They just know that BJU (and Pensacola CC) are not to be taken seriously academically.

 

No offense, but I wouldn't want to hire anyone who would be willing to give either one of those institutions their money - to me that would be the same as embracing their bigotry.

 

I guess that depends on why you think they tossed his application. To me, it seemed they tossed it because the school's program was not academically acceptable. The poster of that comment went on to state that BJU has a terrible academic reputation.

 

Tara

:iagree:

 

Although I do realize a good number of people somehow get into these institutions without understanding the history. Or they didn't have much say in what their parents were going to pay for. If I find out someone went to BJU or PCC (or any other school like that), I'm definitely wondering what their story is and if they had a real understanding of what they were getting into. For example, I have a friend that graduated from a college somewhat like BJU (without the racism and all that cr@p) but would never choose to go to a school like that and has no agreement with the theology.

[Tenaj]

Cedarville is the butt of many jokes 'round here. People pretty much have the opinion that Cedarville grads are freaky, narrow-minded weirdos. I know a Cedarville grad and don't think she is a freaky weirdo, but I do think she has an extremely narrow worldview. ETA: And she is a teacher, and I think her extremely narrow worldview has hindered her ability to teach effectively.

 

Tara

 

Raising my hand - I guess I'm a narrow-minded freaky weirdo - thanks for clarifying that for me :)

[Homemama2]

Cedarville is the butt of many jokes 'round here. People pretty much have the opinion that Cedarville grads are freaky, narrow-minded weirdos

Really? I've never heard this before. We live a state away and everything I've heard about Cedarville has always been positive. (I haven't known a ton of people who have graduated from there, though. A couple of preachers, a couple of teachers, a man who got his undergrad there and went on to an excellent law school, and some people who worked with computers at a university.)

[Haiku]

Raising my hand - I guess I'm a narrow-minded freaky weirdo - thanks for clarifying that for me :)

 

I'm not calling anyone names. The question was raised about Cedarville as an alternative to BJU. I'm just pointing out that if the OP is concerned about public impression of the school, well, it doesn't have a good reputation around here. Academically it's considered ok, but socially it's considered odd.

 

Tara

[Tenaj]

I'm not calling anyone names. The question was raised about Cedarville as an alternative to BJU. I'm just pointing out that if the OP is concerned about public impression of the school, well, it doesn't have a good reputation around here. Academically it's considered ok, but socially it's considered odd.

 

Tara

 

Sorry if I misread you . . . really I meant it very tongue-in-cheek. I just thought it was funny that you were characterizing a whole population of people based on your experience with one grad and jokes you've heard.

 

Whatever . . . I've got a degree from Cedarville as does my husband as do many of my friends and I've never heard of any one being questioned on the validity of their degree or their social skills :)

 

Just because someone has a different worldview than you, does not make them socially odd.

[Haiku]

Sorry if I misread you . . . really I meant it very tongue-in-cheek. I just thought it was funny that you were characterizing a whole population of people based on your experience with one grad and jokes you've heard.

 

Whatever . . . I've got a degree from Cedarville as does my husband as do many of my friends and I've never heard of any one being questioned on the validity of their degree or their social skills :)

 

I think you are completely misunderstanding me. I am not characterizing anyone as anything. I am reporting that where I live, Cedarville is considered odd. I am not responsible for the impressions of other people. I am merely reporting them because someone asked about the school. I think you're attempting to shoot the messenger.

 

And I didn't mean that people who go there have bad social skills. I meant that, considering that the school is (or has been in the very recent past) so conservative that students are forbidden to dance even off campus, people think the school is odd. When dh and I first married, we lived next door to two Cedarville students. They dropped out and transferred to another nearby university because they wanted to be able to dance at their wedding and they were, they reported to us, not allowed to do so if they were enrolled as students at Cedarville. That's just one example of why folks around here think the school is odd.

 

Tara

Edited April 6, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator

[ssavings]

I'm Catholic, and therefore have issues with them.

But, even if I had no issues with them, their lack of regional accredidation would be a huge issue for me.

[Tenaj]

I think you are completely misunderstanding me. I am not characterizing anyone as anything. I am reporting that where I live, Cedarville is considered odd. I am not responsible for the impressions of other people. I am merely reporting them because someone asked about the school. I think you're attempting to shoot the messenger.

 

And I didn't mean that people who go there have bad social skills. I meant that, considering that the school is (or has been in the very recent past) so conservative that students are forbidden to dance even off campus, people think the school is odd. When dh and I first married, we lived next door to two Cedarville students. They dropped out and transferred to another nearby university because they wanted to be able to dance at their wedding and they were, they reported to us, not allowed to do so if they were enrolled as students at Cedarville. That's just one example of why folks around here think the school is odd.

 

Tara

 

Ahhh . . . got it. When you said the word weird and social it was reminding me of the social arguments people use against homeschooling. You were talking about the rules! Sorry for misunderstanding. Yes, I was there in the mid-eighties and no dancing, no movies, definite standards for music (even Christian contemporary) were all rules that active students had to agree to follow. I do admire your acquaintances that dropped out rather than just break the rules as many did. I did my share of rule-breaking during my early years - the music standards just drove me crazy :) But realized that I had agreed to the rules and needed to follow them until graduation.

 

Just so you know, many of those rules have changed and been modified to reflect a less legalistic viewpoint in the past 10 years or so. The rules have been adjusted to reflect an individuals convictions as they grow in their relationship with God rather than stark right/wrong rules that they had in the past. I was just at a Cedarville wedding (two staff members) in November and they were dancing at their wedding :) I'm not sure exactly what specific rules exist now but will be finding out soon as I'm sending two kidlets off to start their college journeys there in the fall.

 

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts.