A retrospective look of your use of IEW Writing curriculum..i'd like to hear from you

[PaigeP]

For those of you who have a high schooler who grew up on the IEW materials, I'd love to hear from you on the outcome it produced (contributed to). What are your retrospective thoughts on it? Any regrets? Did you make any tweaks for good or ill?

[flobee76]

:lurk5:

[RobinL in Canada]

Although my own background is literature and writing (I have degrees in both), I dreaded the thought of actually having to teach writing to my own children. How? What to do? Where to begin? It seemed so intuitive to me, yet so impossible to convey that intuitive understanding. And then I came across IEW and I found a *method* for teaching writing skills. Over the years, I adapted IEW concepts, expanding the style elements in particular through use of the Sentence Composing series, also making use of narration and imitation of literary examples through exercises I created to accompany the progress through the IEW stylistic elements (and adding more). And although many critics say that IEW students betray themselves through stilted style, I've been very pleased with the way my sons' writing has developed. Each writes with varied and complex sentence patterns as well as wide vocabularies and precise diction. (When my oldest went off to college and had to take a required first-year Communications course, he was the only one in the class who did not have to take the final exam as he was also the only one who could write fluently and grammatically). I don't think anyone would be able to tell, by reading their writing today, that they began with IEW.

 

All that said, I think it *is* possible for some kids to get stuck in the IEW rut and never really develop their own unique styles beyond the basic IEW requirements. Certain IEW stylistic elements *do* make for a stilted sound--the worst offender, in my view, is the "-ly" (adverb) opener which so many students use so very awkwardly ("Excitingly, this battle took place in 1066.") But I think such a tendency has to do more with the basic "wiring" of a given student than with the program itself--ie, some people simply resonate more with language and exposure to well-written literature encourages their own development as writers, whereas for others, a well-written book is just, well, another book. Also, I disagree with Andrew Pudewa's perspective that it isn't necessary or helpful to teach grammatical terminology as students work through the program. If students can stay "Antidisestablishmentarianism,"as so many are eager to prove, then there's no reason why they can't say "relative pronoun" or "subordinate clause." ; ) Over the years, I've found that my students (in co-op classes) have been proud of their ability to use correct gramamtical terminology in discussing their writing and have in no way found that ability a hindrance to their creative expression.

 

So overall I'd have to say that despite its limitations (ie, it offers virtually nothing in terms of Invention as presented in such classical writing programs as LToW and does little to teach paragraph coherence) I've been pleased with IEW as a "springboard" writing program and am grateful I found it 17 years ago ; )

[PaigeP]

Thanks, Robin!

 

:bigear:

[Bornalily]

This is a good question as my dd did Writeshop in 7 & 8th leaving us nowhere to go for 9th (we started homeschooling in 7th grade out of private school, and I was shocked by her lack of writing skills - I now see this as an area where she is not naturally gifted which neither I nor the school picked up on in earlier grades). I picked up AG literary essay unit which was somewhat helpful in writing literary analysis this year, and I have the Research Paper unit to do in 10th grade. My daughter didn't love WS but I felt it gave her useful tools that can mature as time goes on. This year aside from dragging 4 or 5 literary essays out of her we got very sidetracked with poetry, and I'm happy she enjoyed that, but I've been looking for a place to jump back on with expository writing for next year. I took a good look at IEW and was thinking of possibly using the U.S. History unit as a writing adjunct as we're doing Am Hist / Am Lit next year, but really it just looks like more of the same we got from WS. I've pretty much decided to move forward with the WTM Hist & Lit program for 10th grade, requiring 2 one page compositions a week and history/science research papers in spring, and along the way checking grammar and style with sources such as Elements of Style, and moving forward with Rhetoric to use in both writing and speech. DD is not a happy writer or speaker, but is good with grammar technicals, and so I think less curriculum but more focus in writing across the curriculum is the way to go for us. This will be somewhat of a challenge for me, but I can always pay for a month here and there from WriteGuide or use our private school (psp) English teachers for feedback. I think as Robin says that with consistent effort students can establish their own style, as they should at some point. All this cogitating over my own situation to say that, in the end students need to develop the capability to write satisfactorily apart from any particular curriculum - just something to keep in mind as you compare IEW to your other options.

[kRenee]

I have only good things to say about IEW. I struggled with writing in school so I was determined to teach my kids a better way. I found IEW and started using it in 3rd grade. We did an SICC every other year and I am very happy with the results. My dd is taking a couple of CC classes and has had to write an essay and a longer paper. She was able to do so without any problem and got very good grades.

 

The required elements (dress-ups and sentence openers) are only required until they become habit. Once your child incorporates them easily in his writing, then you can drop the strict requirements and concentrate on making the essay sound polished. What you learn about organizing a paper is invaluable.

[love2read]

Our background--I've used IEW with almost all of my children and have graduated five. My youngest is a pre-teen. I use IEW (either Writing Intensive A or one of the thematic books) in grade 4. The next year or two I don't formally teach writing, but expect them to use the dress-ups, openers and outlining. They are only given the checklist if they have trouble with transition and weak sentences. In grade 6 or 7 they use either Intensive C or a workbook again and after that we're done with IEW except for the short essay DVD that goes over SAT writing.

 

Initially the writing with IEW looks very contrived, but it teaches an understanding about writing that they can carry with them. Our children write very well, scored perfect on the SAT (one scored 10), more importantly they have not had any problems with their college English classes or writing assignments in other classes.

 

For what it's worth, I do enroll them in Seton English 9 and 10 which fine tunes writing literary analysis essays and a research report.

[Brenda in MA]

Hi Paige,

 

I used a mixed bag of writing programs with my oldest in middle school, including Writing Strands, Wordsmith, and Put That in Writing. Once he got to the 10th grade, he was writing well enough that I just had him do literary essays and mini-reports in later high school. He did very well on the cc placement test and got into honors English 101. He has also done well enough in writing at his 4-yr college, but he's an engineering major, so he doesn't need to do a ton of writing.

 

I wanted to try a different approach with my younger guy in middle school. The summer before he was in the 6th grade, I borrowed the IEW TWSS tapes from a friend and learned the "system". Then I had him use the IEW ancient, medieval, and US History I themed books in middle school. The results have been quite amazing. He went from lots of simple sentences to much more interesting writing, and he learned the format of lots of types of writing with IEW. In high school, he has gone on to take a few outside courses (Lit & Latin) that have required quite a bit of writing and essays, and he has done very well.

 

I really think IEW is a great writing program for middle school. Three years of it was enough to cement the "dress-ups" and the basic formats, and I don't bother with enforcing any of that now. I don't need to.

 

I wish I'd used IEW with my oldest, but he's turned out OK, too. :001_smile: I've found that writing is a subject that just requires a lot of time on-task and a lot of close review for the student to improve. I really liked IEW, but I'd say that you should use what feels comfortable for you and your child, but just use it consistently.

 

Best wishes!

Brenda

[G5052]

I love IEW for writing through about 8th grade or so. My oldest used parts of TWSS, SWI-A, and then four of the theme-oriented books and the short story book. He doesn't enjoy writing, but he writes well. As he advanced, we dropped back from requiring dress-ups, openers, etc. in 8th grade, and now he just does a keyword outline most of the time (not always, sometimes he works it out in his mind) and composes on the computer (no rough draft). Next year I'm going to run him through The New Oxford Guide to Writing and some other resources I have to polish his ability to make a point, but he'd do fine right now in the English 101 class at the college where I teach computer literacy even though he has a few more years of high school.

 

This year he was in a paid class that required a poem at one point as one of the many writing assignments, and he knuckled down and wrote an incredible poem based on an historical event. So even though he doesn't like poetry at all, I saw how he outlined it ahead of time and then wrestled through the words and rhythm. Even in poetry, I saw how the IEW skills were used.

 

I wish that they had more oriented towards high school writing, but they're putting more out at that level each year.

[angela in ohio]

I have used IEW methods with my two older dds all the way through since watching the TWSS many years ago, bridging into other materials for high school (Lively Art of Writing, Elements of Style, college writing handbooks, etc.,) but using no other programs. I've taught logic and rhetoric to them on my own, but I would have used another program for content development if not. I haven't used any of the high school IEW materials, though I taught a few of the HBL in co-op or tutorial classes.

 

My older dd was a natural writer from the beginning. She speaks and writes maturely. IEW helped her to organize her thoughts more carefully. She can turn out a paper in a few hours on any topic, and college English class is going to be heavenly for her. :001_smile:

 

My middle dd is an 8th grader, and she was not a natural writer. IEW helped her to add more interest and maturity to her "get er' done" style of writing. She recently took the HSPT for a local Catholic girls' school, and they added a timed writing assignment to assess writing skills. When we met with the counselor, she showed us her 6/6 score, and she said it was the first 6 she had seen. :D

 

I really think IEW requires an understanding on the part of the teacher or parent of the method in its entirety. I've seen it taught very badly by teachers who don't understand the methods, and the students end up with the dreaded fussy writing.

 

I chose IEW because I didn't want my dc to have to write on contrived topics. I pull all of their writing from the other work that they are doing, and they learn by reading and writing in most subject areas.

[RobinL in Canada]

[quote

 

 

 

I chose IEW because I didn't want my dc to have to write on contrived topics. I pull all of their writing from the other work that they are doing, and they learn by reading and writing in most subject areas.

 

This benefit was key for me too. Both with my own boys and when I have taught writing in co-op classes, I have tied the writing to the content of whatever other course we were also doing (history or geography). For me, that has been one of the beauties of IEW--no "random" writing topics but an integration of the development of writing skills with their grasp of content.

[Briartell]

:lurk5:

[Photo Ninja]

My dc were in grades 5, 3 and 1 when I started using IEW. These dc are now in college. I have no regrets and only good things to say about IEW. Yes, in the beginning, the writing is stilted because children are trying to fit all the required elements into the paragraphs, but that is not the end result. It is part of the learning process. Eventually, all my dc developed their own individual writing styles, use most the elements regularly and use them well, and do not keep using the check lists. Mr. Pudewa will tell you that using the check lists is not the end goal. Being able to write well and use the various styles and techniques appropriately is the goal, not fitting everything into one paragraph.

 

My dc can write well, take notes thoroughly, organized their notes, write outlines, and write reports, essays and research papers fairly easily. They may not always like doing it, but they can do it and do it well. My dd was in 11th grade and was taking a Western Civ course at the cc. It was a heavy composition course, and the instructor picked my dd's paper as an example of a perfectly written in-class essay. (Slight brag, but really, it was due her knowing how to organize and express herself well in writing.) All my dc have experienced college instructors telling them that they are very good writers, easily meeting their professor's expectations.

 

I attribute my dc's writing ability to using IEW for so many years. I know the program has changed considerably since I started using it and there is now a lot more offered that we never used, but the basic teacher's guide, TWSS, is enough after you have attended the seminar to learn how to implement the program. I appreciate that my dc's practiced writing skills on subject matter that related to whatever we were studying at the time. It is very easy to incorporate IEW lessons into your current curriculum.

 

One of my sons wrote an excellent essay for a contest. He gave it to Mr. Pudewa at a hsing conference to get his opinion, and was a bit nervous as he told Mr. Pudewa that he did not use any checklist and did not include all the dress ups, etc. Mr. Pudewa laughed and told my ds that it means he has graduated from IEW and just needs to write, using whatever dress ups, styles or techniques make the most sense for the purpose of the paper.

 

My dc have their own writing styles and are not stilted writers, as some accuse IEW of producing. One of my sons has discovered, while in college, that he actually likes to write screenplays, and has willingly taken a couple writing courses just because he wanted to! He was the kid who hated writing anything creative (out of his imagination), yet here he is writing a screen play as his college senior project.

 

It is easy to implement IEW, and it does teach students to write with incremental steps. Yes, it does take time, but writing takes time, so that is to be expected. But it pays off when you have a child who can receive an essay assignment on Monday and can work independently and turn in a finished, edited essay on Friday. IEW won't teach children who hate writing to love writing, but it will teach them how to write.

[PaigeP]

I was considering WWE then WWS but was concerned that since they aren't quite as old/tried that I'd be "risking" it. The WWE/WWS fit my personality as I don't like writing myself and doubt my ability to use IEW properly and they seem more open-and-go, but I had heard it produced great fruit/results thus my question to see if other corroborated its efficacy.

 

Thanks again.

[Briartell]

My friends have used IEW exclusively and 5 of the 7 kids have gotten into their first choice for university. They tested great as well. Professor comments have been quite positive about their writing.

 

I am new to IEW since this is my first year HS. I got the TWSS videos to help prepare me and I am liking it so far. It doesn't seem so scary anymore. I have though signed him for a fall online IEW class with Pamela White as the teacher. It costs $199 for a 15 week course, $99 for the summer course. She is excellent! She is the one who put together the IEW book Fix It! Grammar and Editing Made Easy with Classics. You can find a recording of her class at IEW. I am going to take the class with him, so I can model her methods. I am also grateful that she is grading his writing. I will give him a grade before she does to see how I measure up.

[Familia]

More retrospective stories? These are quite helpful.

[BlsdMama]

 

I really think IEW requires an understanding on the part of the teacher or parent of the method in its entirety. I've seen it taught very badly by teachers who don't understand the methods, and the students end up with the dreaded fussy writing.

 

I chose IEW because I didn't want my dc to have to write on contrived topics. I pull all of their writing from the other work that they are doing, and they learn by reading and writing in most subject areas.

 

 

This.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

I think a lot of problems with IEW could be solved by following TWTM method of writing until they are in late middle school or in high school when they can use IEW to fine tune their writing.

 

I can share our story with IEW. I had wanted to use it / see it but I wasn't about to spend the money on the DVDs and so we didn't use it. We simply did TWTM style outlining and writing sporadically. But, and this is a BIG one, we did a huge amount of reading aloud. If you listen to Pudewa speak he will tell you that "natural" writers are generally people who have a feel for how language should sound because they've been read aloud to. That said, both of my older children have their own "voice" in their writing and that developed naturally; I believe it to be the direct result of reading aloud.

 

Fast forward - we needed someone to teach/facilitate the 5th-8th grade writing class at co-op, teaching IEW. Lo and behold, this was my opportunity to use IEW without having to purchase the materials! It was a great experience because my children already had their "voice" so the organization of outlining and writing and dressing up was just the icing on the cake. They could understand when it sounded contrived and when it sounded "right."

 

IEW is a good overall program. For so very many parents, writing is one of those classes that is simply overwhelming to teach! It's scary! I like it far better than any program where you can't figure out how to apply it to writing about the literature you're using or the history you're using, etc. Kids NEED real world application.

 

Further, I believe Elegant Essay and Windows to the World are the two best programs out there that they offer. Of course, I haven't used everything... Yet.

 

I think their SAT Essay Writing DVD is ACTUALLY worth the ridiculous price of $80. Gasp. Yeah, I said it. It's worth it... Even if all you do is watch it and resell it.

 

I love the additional syllabi they sell to bring it all together. A dear friend bought Jill Pike's syllabus to tie WttW and TTC together and I think that $10 was WELL spent. :D

 

I love that they support their materials. If you're using IEW and haven't signed up for their Yahoo groups, you're missing out.

 

I think the danger in using IEW is picking up SWI alone. I think TWSS should be required for using any SWI. :P I like that they offer additional materials. I recently purchased a download of additional pictures to teach from. It was $10. It saved me effort to go find pictures for that unit and made teaching prep. painless. ;)

 

Yes, in the beginning, the writing is stilted because children are trying to fit all the required elements into the paragraphs, but that is not the end result. It is part of the learning process.

 

 

 

IEW won't teach children who hate writing to love writing, but it will teach them how to write.

 

Yes!!!

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's perfect. The dangers are contrived writing styles. Of course, that gets fixed over time with more writing, confidence, and experience. So the solution is write more. And if IEW enables people to get over the fear and get out there and DO IT, then great. Writing is an awful lot like gardening. When you start pick a book, read some, get in there, follow the directions. Yes, they could be wrong, or mostly right and a little wrong. Is the wrong bad? Well, it might result in a not so great crop. But the not so great crop is better than NOT gardening at all! And, moreover, as you garden, year after year, you'll find your own ways! The most important part was that you got out there. You planted those seeds and you learned a lot along the way! The basics were there for you and then you did the fine tuning as you got experience and failed just a little bit! ;)

Edited June 1, 2012 by BlsdMama

[Brigid in NC]

IEW is a gem that I would not want to do without if I were starting all over again.

 

So many others posters have given the many ++ and the few -- of IEW programs, so I won't repeat those. My older ds (who just graduated from college) told me a year or so ago -- when I was battering him with questions about the good/bad/ugly of homeschooling -- that IEW was one of the most beneficial curricula that we used over the years. I was a big fan before I heard that, but I think it is helpful to hear what our students say as they reflect back. :)

Edited June 1, 2012 by Brigid in NC

[LatinTea]

My son began with IEW in 4th grade I believe. He could not write well at all back then, but then again most boys can't. It did immediately improve his ability to see into a sentence and I do think it appealed to his sense of order. He continued with IEW on and off through his senior year.

 

I personally did not like the program. That doesn't matter I guess, but it always felt like fingernails on the chalkboard when I heard those nasty who/which clauses or saw those checklists. I wanted a free thinker. Hah! He dealt with it and survived and now he's looking into getting a Master's degree in Creative Writing. He took the good of IEW and left the rest. He dropped the checklist early on and changed the format of the outlines.

 

I asked him the other day if he thought IEW was worth the effort and he said the best part was initially knowing how to do the keyword outline and fused outline. But for both of these he changed somewhat, using the 'improved' form for his college papers and co-op classes he has taught since then.

 

I think IEW, for us, was good as a jump start, a good foundation to build on. I just never liked the confines of it, but then again, he's now the writer and I'm not. ;)

[Jane Elliot]

IEW is a gem that I would not want to do without if I were starting all over again.

 

So many others posters have given the many ++ and the few -- of IEW programs, so I won't repeat those. My older ds (who just graduated from college) told me a year or so ago -- when I was battering him with questions about the good/bad/ugly of homeschooling -- that IEW was one of the most beneficial curricula that we used over the years. I was a big fan before I heard that, but I think it is helpful to hear what our students say as they reflect back. :)

:iagree:This is exactly what my college students say.

[laughing lioness]

I have loved and used IEW for years- taught it to groups, vended for the company, etc. In fact I taught a group of 3rd graders this year using Fairy Tales and Fables. Plus, I learned a ton about writing myself by teaching it. I don't agree with some of their style techniques at this point, but overall I still think it's a great program that gets kids writing, takes the sting out of writing and produces really great results.

 

That being said, I also taught a group of 6-8th graders using WWS this year and I think it is the best writing program to teach structure, bar none. I've recommended it to adults, who are trying to get up to speed on college writing. It is that good.

 

I don't regret the years of IEW and incorporate it into the WWS class. I am thrilled to see more quality programs that address issues of academic writing and structure, like WWS. (Can't wait for WWS II to make it to market!!)