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8FilltheHeart, let’s talk about literature…


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I cannot believe how much this conversation is speaking to me. One story:

 

My 12 yo son was an early reader. Loves to read, reads well, etc. I've noticed this year that I have to "make" him read. I keep assigning books that he won't finish or barely gets through, and says "it was fine" when he's done. Well after reading through all this, I think about it and realize that the last book he read that he LOVED was Call of the Wild. Couldn't stop talking about it. He also devoured Two Sherlock Holmes earlier this winter. And all the books he's not wanting to read? Historical fiction that I have dug up to "go with" our studies.

 

He was in the middle of one just this week and begged not to finish it. I asked him if he would like to read the actual Robin Hood instead (he's only read versions). He lit up and said, "yes!" And he been reading it eagerly since yesterday.

 

This book does not fit into our current history period and would not have come around for 2 more years. I only had it because of this conversation, I decided to check it out on a whim.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking.

 

thanks

Jen

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Although I frequent the local library, we already have so many books at home that I could begin reading the ones I haven't looked at yet and probably still be going well into the next millennium ; ) And that inlcudes that vast library of children's books here, including many that I have carefully. lovingly preserved from my own childhood. And I have read aloud fine children's literature to my boys since they were infants, and we've greatly enjoyed those read-aloud times together (when mom gets to do the various "voices" of the characters). So you'd think that maybe my four sons would be as voracious readers as I have been? Nope. Oh, they will read--what's on their reading lists for schoolwork. And fiction I would get them for their birthdays or Christmas which I tried to choose with their interests and personalities specifically in mind. But otherwise? Those rows of children's books have sat dusty and neglected on the shelves, to my great disappointment. And I'm wondering now if it wasn't exactly this sort of *making* them read fiction for classwork that may have put the damper on any enthusiasm which may have otherwise developed. As a child, I would have delighted in the opportunity to wallow in books...and I still do. But of course, I grew up pre-internet, and my boys seem to be wired differently.

 

But now it occurs to me: I still have son #4 at home (grade 7). And as I'm beginning to plan ahead for next year, when we'll cover Early Modern/ Modern history, I've already been musing over what literature to include ( Johnny Tremaine, perhaps?? ; ) ) And suddenly it occurs to me: why not just put him in front of those shelves of great children's books, and let *him* pick? He can read the blurbs on the back or page through the early sections, and see what appeals to him. Who knows what discoveries he will make and what treasures he will come to cherish? Literary analysis will come soon enough in the high school years; why not let him enjoy childhood books while he's still a child?

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Although I frequent the local library, we already have so many books at home that I could begin reading the ones I haven't looked at yet and probably still be going well into the next millennium ; ) And that inlcudes that vast library of children's books here, including many that I have carefully. lovingly preserved from my own childhood. And I have read aloud fine children's literature to my boys since they were infants, and we've greatly enjoyed those read-aloud times together (when mom gets to do the various "voices" of the characters). So you'd think that maybe my four sons would be as voracious readers as I have been? Nope. Oh, they will read--what's on their reading lists for schoolwork. And fiction I would get them for their birthdays or Christmas which I tried to choose with their interests and personalities specifically in mind. But otherwise? Those rows of children's books have sat dusty and neglected on the shelves, to my great disappointment. And I'm wondering now if it wasn't exactly this sort of *making* them read fiction for classwork that may have put the damper on any enthusiasm which may have otherwise developed. As a child, I would have delighted in the opportunity to wallow in books...and I still do. But of course, I grew up pre-internet, and my boys seem to be wired differently.

 

But now it occurs to me: I still have son #4 at home (grade 7). And as I'm beginning to plan ahead for next year, when we'll cover Early Modern/ Modern history, I've already been musing over what literature to include ( Johnny Tremaine, perhaps?? ; ) ) And suddenly it occurs to me: why not just put him in front of those shelves of great children's books, and let *him* pick? He can read the blurbs on the back or page through the early sections, and see what appeals to him. Who knows what discoveries he will make and what treasures he will come to cherish? Literary analysis will come soon enough in the high school years; why not let him enjoy childhood books while he's still a child?

 

I wonder the same thing. I think you are on to something there. If you do decide to go that route--keep us updated on your son's response.

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But now it occurs to me: I still have son #4 at home (grade 7). And as I'm beginning to plan ahead for next year, when we'll cover Early Modern/ Modern history, I've already been musing over what literature to include ( Johnny Tremaine, perhaps?? ; ) ) And suddenly it occurs to me: why not just put him in front of those shelves of great children's books, and let *him* pick? He can read the blurbs on the back or page through the early sections, and see what appeals to him. Who knows what discoveries he will make and what treasures he will come to cherish? Literary analysis will come soon enough in the high school years; why not let him enjoy childhood books while he's still a child?

 

My ds is notorious for judging a book by its cover! It makes me crazy. I have done as you're thinking of doing many times and he will look at them and claim that none of them look good. This without even actually reading the backs of them!! Arg! But if he knows it's a cool classic, like The Invisible Man, or something he has actually heard about in movies, etc., then he is more apt to go into it thinking it's going to be a great book regardless of it's cover art. Boys!!

 

All that to say, be sure he actually READS the back covers when he's choosing, and not just looking at the pictures on the cover and finding them wanting. :lol:

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If you have a reluctant reader, you still might have a story lover; and you can still teach them to decipher complex literature by reading to them beyond their own reading level for many more years than most people think. My HUSBAND kind of likes to be read to, for heaven sakes, and he is 10 years older than I am.

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We've done a mix of:

 

the classics related to the time we're studying and

 

other classics appropriate to the age (completely out of the time period)...and then since esp dd loves to read, lots of other books (no TV here).

 

In one of Susan's tapes about history and literature she said that hers is a suggested list - it is fine to change.... So if dc didn't take to the classic, we skipped it and moved on (with a few exceptions like Descartes)...

 

It can be quite a different experience to read the work when you are studying the time period...eg Beowulf during the Middle Ages/Viking - is quite different taken without the context...

 

But I think we humans tend to 'rebel' against 'rules', so no point in adding to the more necessary ones:)...flexibility is quite important....

 

Joan

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My ds is notorious for judging a book by its cover! It makes me crazy. I have done as you're thinking of doing many times and he will look at them and claim that none of them look good. This without even actually reading the backs of them!! Arg! But if he knows it's a cool classic, like The Invisible Man, or something he has actually heard about in movies, etc., then he is more apt to go into it thinking it's going to be a great book regardless of it's cover art. Boys!!

 

All that to say, be sure he actually READS the back covers when he's choosing, and not just looking at the pictures on the cover and finding them wanting. :lol:

 

I'll keep that in mind ; )

 

What I plan to do is continue with our read-alouds and choose certain historical or period pieces for that but otherwise let him choose. Currently he's on a roll with Agatha Christie (I read tons of her books when I was 12/ 13),The Hunger Games, and non-fiction about Greece to accompany his research into family genealogy. Sounds like a decent mixture of interests ; )

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think I'm going to need to read Alan Jacobs' book, The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction; here's an excerpt from Lauren Winner's review/response in "Books & Culture", to Jacobs' book (read Winner's entire article here):

 

"The true enemy of reading is a sibilant voice that begins telling us, around about middle school, that reading is something we do, not because we enjoy it, but because it will make us somehow better. The voice tells us that reading is something we should do -- we should read a book the way we take a vitamin. [Alan] Jacobs' The Pleasures of Reading is, above all, a brief for enjoyment. Jacobs reminds us that most of us learned to read by being read to as children -- we learned to read in the lap of a loving parent, grandparent, or aunt. Reading thus 'starts for many of us in a warm cocoon of security, accompnaied by an unassailable sense of being loved.' But it is 'gradually and inexorably' turned into 'a site of stress.' We have to read what we are told (explicitly or implicitly) to read, and we begin to think that reading is about self-improvement, not pleasure, let alone love.

 

Among the culprits Jacobs blames for this are books like Mortimer Adler's 1940 How to Read a Book. Such instructive manuals have taught a large portion of the American reading public to be suspicious of books that aren't in some way 'certifiably good for you. Jacobs wants you to read the books that delight you. The conflict between these two rival conceptions of reading has a very long history, one episode... came to dominate American reading in the early 20th centure: readers strove to 'read up', that is to improve themselves and elevate their status by reading those books that 'experts have deemed "the best".'...

 

Jacobs wants people to recover the ability to practice 'deep attention' inside a book -- not to read hastily because one is reading what one has to for school, or because one is note-taking for information; not to read distractedly, with half one's thoughts elsewhere; but to read with sustained focus, to allow one's self to become absorbed by a book. And the deep attention one cultivates in reading allows one to practice deep attention in other settings too... Finally, Jacobs is writing about joy. He wants us to find in reading, not anxious 'reading up', but pleasure, whimsy. He wants the practice of reading to be a practice of joy...

 

I must say, that while reading for sheer pleasure and losing oneself in a book has a value, reading to elevate oneself also has a place. Lauren Winner has degrees from Duke, Columbia, and Cambridge. I don't :). Having been in the the Florida public school & social service system, I am truly grateful to Adler for his work, though I don't agree with everything he says. I've noticed that DH, who has an excellent education -- and my good college friend C., who has been through Milton, Wellesley and Harvard -- both tend to focus on dropping a book if it isn't fun.

 

While I love to read for pure pleasure, I also need to cultivate and elevate my taste if I want to be able to enjoy the best literature, or the best writing of any sort. The best writing isn't simple, or easily accessible. If your educational system hasn't trained you to read & enjoy it, you may need to train yourself. I am so, so amazed and pleased at what I've been able to accomplish by stretching myself with books & periodicals! (now can actually enjoy Foreign Affairs, for ex.)

 

Naturally all reading should not be painful, and perhaps most should be delightful. But there are aims other than delight that reading can serve, and my reading is servant to my higher aims.

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I must say, that while reading for sheer pleasure and losing oneself in a book has a value, reading to elevate oneself also has a place.

 

Agree. I believe there are many overlapping purposes for reading and for Literature.

 

I believe in her article and his book, Lauren Winner and Alan Jacobs were trying to balance that "over-swing" of the pendulum toward the idea that there is *only* one purpose of Literature -- for acquiring knowledge or to elevate. :)

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Agree. I believe there are many overlapping purposes for reading and for Literature.

 

I believe in her article and his book, Lauren Winner and Alan Jacobs were trying to balance that "over-swing" of the pendulum toward the idea that there is *only* one purpose of Literature -- for acquiring knowledge or to elevate. :)

:) -- have you seen Dirda's Classics for Pleasure? I like reading _it_ just for fun -- esp. these days, when the tot makes it hard for me to read whole good books!

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  • 2 months later...
I would love to talk more about it if anyone else is game.

 

I would love to :bigear: to the conversation, even though I don't have anything helpful to add.

 

I do not tie DS1's reading to history, because he hated it when I tried. He *LOVES* history, and he *LOVES* reading, but trying Sonlight Core 6 (the one that uses SOTW) a couple of years ago was a mistake. He didn't like having the schedule (he completed the entire week's readers and read alouds by Monday afternoon every single week), he didn't like having to read the books in a certain order, and he didn't like many of the books. This really surprised me, because Sonlight seemed like such an obvious choice for a kid who loves history and reading!

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I don't have time to read all the posts, but I just want to say that I've always done both -- I lined up history and literature, but then I also had a list of classics for each child. They always had a book from the lit list going as well as what they were reading for history. If it got overwhelming, I used one or the other as a read-aloud book. My kids all love to read, so the extra lit assignment wasn't overwhelming -- if anything, it was like a break from school!

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Ooooh, Today is a big planning day for me, and I stumble on this thread!

I too have been mulling over these things for a while, but have not had the time to verbalize it (much less some up with concrete ideas about the coming year).

 

Thank you all so much!

 

Now, off to make some coffee and stare at the rain (O, PNW, Where is Thy Summer?)

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