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8FilltheHeart, let’s talk about literature…


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After being off the board for a couple of months, I summoned up the nerve to venture into the monstrous Circe thread. I did not make it past the 40th post thanks to 8FilltheHeart and her thoughts on shifting her homeschool focus from history to literature and removing historical fiction from the reading mix:

 

Circe thread, 8FilltheHeart, Post # 26

 

1- I am no longer going to incorporate historical fiction. My boys, especially, b/c they were not avid readers, wasted so much precious time reading historical fiction that could have been spent reading great children's literature.

2- Literature is going to be the driving force behind our K-8 studies. Typically I have fallen into the history pattern. (you know......pick lit to match up w/whatever history we are studying. I'm not suggesting that we will not be studying history. It is simply not going to be taking history and wrapping lit around it. This yr I have taken literature and wrapped history around lit and it has been truly the best homeschooling yr I have ever had.

 

Circe thread, 8FilltheHeart, Post # 39

 

· I have witnessed growth in vocabulary, searching for allusions, appreciation for literary techniques (pure enjoyment in how something is written, not necessarily analyzing the writing. This is a quote that my dd fell in love w/just from encountering the words on the page b/c of the images the evoked for her: I hied me away to the woods--away back into the sun-washed alleys carpeted with fallen gold and glades where the moss is green and vivid yet. THe woods are getting ready to sleep--they are not yet asleep but they are disrobing and are having all sorts of little bed-time conferences and whisperings and good-nights. That type of writing is not found in the majority of historical fiction…)

 

 

· What I mean by #2 is that my literature selections from here on out are going to be selected by the merits of the piece of literature. For some works, like AGG, I can build history off of the literature. (actually an entire yrs worth of literature and history.) Annotated children's classics give background information that can lead down numerous paths from the allusions/references w/in the story itself. (Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass have more text for the annotations than for the stories themselves!!) In other cases, history and lit simply won't be interconnected in any deliberate way.

 

 

Swimmermom3 - off the top of her befuddled head

These comments resonated with me because we unintentionally began doing something similar this last fall for eighth grade and our journey has been so rewarding. I am happy to share what we have read, our resources that we have used, and the thoughts behind our choices. However, I am also aware that there are many, many excellent threads going right now which I have not read yet, so I thought I would check with you all before stunning you into a stupor. The ground may have been covered and I don’t want to waste anyone’s time.

 

Eight, if you are willing, I want to hear more about your experience especially the two bulleted points in the above post.

Edited by swimmermom3
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Oh dear, I didn't mean that only 8FilltheHeart could respond.:blush:

 

In fact, not talking to anyone about homeschooling has probably made me a bit rash in posting. Sorry:tongue_smilie:.

 

For those of you following TWTM reading lists, eliminating historical fiction is probably a moot point. What do you think of not necessarily tying your literary choices to history? The reason I ask is because this is the first year we have strayed from that path and well, it has been a really good year.

 

We used Sonlight when we started home schooling because we were accidental home schoolers. My SIL had lent me TWTM, but it seemed overwhelming at the time. Studying history and literature that was set in the same time frame was a novel concept for myself and my kids and we loved it. We mostly just read and talked. To this day, I am amazed at what the kids remember from those years.

 

After two years with Sonlight, we were ready to move on. I added TWTM reading lists, but still pressed my youngest one to read all the Sonlight books I had on hand, because...well, my older son had loved them. It has taken me three years to figure out that ds would not read a Newberry award-winning book to save his life and when you have a non-reader, time is precious. We kept our literature tied to our history, because I was firmly convinced it was the best way to go. I am not so sure now.

 

This last fall, due to a happy accident, Swimmmer Dude blew my scintillating, beautifully crafted literature plans out of the water. He now chooses his books, I read and discuss them with him. It is also my job to find poems, short stories, plays, and essays that can tie into what he is reading. Sometimes the works relate to our history, often, they don't.

 

My son's vocabulary, writing, critical thinking, and appreciation for language have grown tremendously. I am still floored by it all since before this year I could count on one hand the books he has chosen to read for pleasure.

 

I guess I am writing this on the high school board because my son is in eighth grade and before he announced that he would like to try ps, I had seriously contemplated approaching language arts the same way we have this year for all four years of high school. I have also had somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction to having all of the literature tied to the history regardless of level of the challenge during the high school years.

 

I don't know. I would love to talk more about it if anyone else is game. Or...I could go back to finding the number of moles of acid in neutralization.:tongue_smilie:

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I am up for the conversation, but I feel a little silly on the high school board. ;). My oldest will be an eighth grader next year.

 

My plan, even before the Circe thread, was to take next year off the history rotation with her and do something she and I both really want to do. So next year, we are reading through A Story of Britain (Fraser) and doing British literature to go with it. We are doing the literature and history together still, but the literature will be driving the bus this go round. :D. I am coming up with my list of things we both want to read and discuss, and we are both looking forward to having the time to follow a few rabbit trails and really dig in.

 

My original love was literature. My love for history really began in college, when I took history classes that explained the context for all the literature I was taking. So what drew me into homeschooling originally was ALL the BOOKS. But somehow, along the way, we became history-focused in a way that crowded out the literature. And that is what I want, in my home, for my kids, to correct.

 

Anyhow, it isn't much to add, but maybe it will give you a bump until 8 sees the post. :D

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I am up for the conversation, but I feel a little silly on the high school board. ;). My oldest will be an eighth grader next year.

 

My plan, even before the Circe thread, was to take next year off the history rotation with her and do something she and I both really want to do. So next year, we are reading through A Story of Britain (Fraser) and doing British literature to go with it. We are doing the literature and history together still, but the literature will be driving the bus this go round. :D. I am coming up with my list of things we both want to read and discuss, and we are both looking forward to having the time to follow a few rabbit trails and really dig in.

 

My original love was literature. My love for history really began in college, when I took history classes that explained the context for all the literature I was taking. So what drew me into homeschooling originally was ALL the BOOKS. But somehow, along the way, we became history-focused in a way that crowded out the literature. And that is what I want, in my home, for my kids, to correct.

 

Anyhow, it isn't much to add, but maybe it will give you a bump until 8 sees the post. :D

 

Don't feel silly. I have found the later part of middle school to be a perfect time to hang out on this board. It helps you hone your focus and know what you are working towards in preparing your student for high school.

 

Like you, my first love is literature. I always enjoyed history, but finally pairing it with literature makes it more personal. I did not want to lose that, but what I found with history leading the way and my unwillingness to cut back on my language arts program was that the two disciplines were taking up a large chunk of the day. Too large.

 

What I find in letting the literature lead, is that while in some ways our studies are less orderly, the connections between disciplines are stronger and seem more firmly rooted. Sigh. I don't know if that makes sense. I wish I had a few more years of home schooling to test out and confirm some of my theories.

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We've never done a lot of historical fiction. Ds was a delayed reader, still is a slow reader. In between reading history, science, non-fiction science, and literature we've run out of time.

 

This year (8th) ds has struggled with so much. It seems our literature is the one area that is really happening. Part of that is ds gets to listen to/help me reader LotR, listen to me read Beowulf. It's the love of story that is keeping him enthused.

 

I don't know what all this adds to the conversation, but until this year I would have said doing subjects together is the connection. We do math together for the most part, this year there is little connection, just a lot of frustration. So that's not the connection.

 

:bigear:

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Like you, my first love is literature. I always enjoyed history, but finally pairing it with literature makes it more personal. I did not want to lose that, but what I found with history leading the way and my unwillingness to cut back on my language arts program was that the two disciplines were taking up a large chunk of the day. Too large.

 

Lisa,

I'd love to participate in this discussion, though I'm not sure I'll have as much to offer as others. After 9 years of homeschooling you'd think I'd have this all figured out, but HA! Each year I've learned something new and I've tweaked to try and make things better. I have constantly battled trying to do TOO MUCH every year. And like you, much of our literature/language arts has been history driven. While I don't regret that, I do agree with you that it has often been a large amount of our time. This year has been different with less history focus and more science focus (just because of my dc's interests).

 

I really would love to hear how you and others have used literature as your foundation. This intrigues me. And how do you see implementing it in high school and still accomplishing goals for college entrance? It just sounds as though what you've found is a way to simplify things yet get more accomplished with greater retention. So please expound on your journey.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

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I had decided before the Circe thread that I was going to HAVE to move away from so much historical fiction books simply because we haven't had enough time to read as many classics as I would like to. My oldest will be a junior in the fall, and I feel time slipping away quickly. The Circe thread has given me the boost I needed to go ahead with my plans.

 

Swimmermom3, I wonder if you could share whether or not you use any curriculum or anything to guide you through your choices. Where do you get essay questions from?

 

I know I'm giving you questions rather than help, but maybe others will chime in and we'll both get some questions answered.

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We've never done a lot of historical fiction. Ds was a delayed reader, still is a slow reader. In between reading history, science, non-fiction science, and literature we've run out of time.

 

This year (8th) ds has struggled with so much. It seems our literature is the one area that is really happening. Part of that is ds gets to listen to/help me reader LotR, listen to me read Beowulf. It's the love of story that is keeping him enthused.

 

I don't know what all this adds to the conversation, but until this year I would have said doing subjects together is the connection. We do math together for the most part, this year there is little connection, just a lot of frustration. So that's not the connection.

 

:bigear:

 

Paula, I think there is a lot to be said for doing subjects together. Up until mid-January, my relationship with my oldest son was really suffering. He was performing poorly in his on-line schooling and he was angry all the time. At that point, I couldn't chalk it up to just to being 16. We started family counseling and I spent two weeks helping him pull himself out of the abyss and get ready for finals. We worked through every assignment in his worst subjects, often drinking coffee together into the wee hours. I learned so much about him in that time. Life has been good since then. I continue to do the chemistry and Spanish lessons with him. I think he feels valued and competent and it shows in his attitude. He had really gotten lost in shuffle with dd's depression.

 

About 8th grade, I am glad to hear that literature is going well. You really can't go wrong with LLofLOTR. I am also sorry that the rest of it isn't going how you would like it to. I am guessing that some of the frustration is in part due to the Hormonal Half-Wit Syndrome that strikes around this age. Swimmer dude has always been my most together child. Now, a stranger has taken over his body and leaves crackers in the refrigerator and milk in the pantry. He has never really followed "the crowd" and recently, I caught him taking the cinnamon challenge. See, HH-WS.:tongue_smilie:

 

What are you two doing for history this year?

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I'll be honest. My thoughts are why limit yourself?

 

Read widely.

Read deeply.

Life is good.

 

:)

 

The one thing we really did do from TWTM (and there were others, but I took this to heart from the beginning) was to require Ana to check out a variety of books from the library. We didn't let her read a lot of twaddle and we required that she read great lit., historical fiction and non-fiction, biographies, science, magazines, and more. We never limited or hemmed her in... Just let her fall in love with words and books!

 

Good literature has everything to do with time period! Even if the story itself isn't taking place in the time period being discussed, it's incredibly relevant to read books written during that time period. When you start to learn more about the writer you will find that whatever was going on during that point in time probably greatly influenced the author's voice. This is ALL relevant and creates far deeper literary understanding and interest. Literary analysis is one of the most RELEVANT things that can be taught. Historical fiction is fine, but I would never limit myself to just that. Neither would I limit myself to literature which is simply attractive to me. There is value in literature which isn't as emotionally pleasing as well. I think for anyone to enjoy literature for the sake of literature, you must analyze the author, the time period, the voice. And oftentimes, to find something you love, you must force yourself to read things you do NOT love as well. Isn't that odd?

Edited by BlsdMama
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I'll be honest. My thoughts are why limit yourself?

 

Read widely.

Read deeply.

Life is good.

 

:)

 

The one thing we really did do from TWTM (and there were others, but I took this to heart from the beginning) was to require Ana to check out a variety of books from the library. We didn't let her read a lot of twaddle and we required that she read great lit., historical fiction and non-fiction, biographies, science, magazines, and more. We never limited or hemmed her in... Just let her fall in love with words and books!

 

I think if you have a good reader that loves to read, this is not an issue. But if you have kids who have struggled to read, who just are not avid readers, or who have other intense interests that require a good deal of time and focus, then you do have to -- at some point -- make a decision to prioritize what that child is reading, at least their required reading for school.

 

My oldest is widely read. She enjoys it. But even with her, we have gotten to a point where the good has crowded out the best and the urgent has trumped the important, in places. We have had a good run with being history-centric, and I don't regret that. But each year, I try to look at what my true goals are and if I have met them -- and then, based on that, what my focus for the next year needs to be, including the time and resources to do that well.

 

I admire the people who have the time, energy and resources to do everything equally well each year. But for some of us, something has to give to be able to really educate in a way that matters. I think that is all anybody has been saying, in this regard, just that we all have to prioritize, and to do that, we each have to take a good, hard look at what our vision for education really is.

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Swimmermom3 - off the top of her befuddled head

These comments resonated with me because we unintentionally began doing something similar this last fall for eighth grade and our journey has been so rewarding. I am happy to share what we have read, our resources that we have used, and the thoughts behind our choices. However, I am also aware that there are many, many excellent threads going right now which I have not read yet, so I thought I would check with you all before stunning you into a stupor. The ground may have been covered and I don’t want to waste anyone’s time.

 

Eight, if you are willing, I want to hear more about your experience especially the two bulleted points in the above post.

 

I would love to hear what you have done this yr with swimmerdude. With dd, it has been stunning to watch her level of comprehension, vocabulary, and connections blossom. I have written about what we have done on the logic board. The entire study has been "organic." I haven't tried to control it or contain it......let me explain that......

 

I bought Where the Brook and River Meet. After spending time w/it, I realized that I could never use it as written. So I did my usual "put together a list to flesh out the ideas." My list was about 75% historical fiction and 25% non-fiction. (fwiw, the non-fiction books have been wonderful and I would not change them at all).

 

However, when we actually started working through Anne of Green Gables, so many paths opened up before us. I was left w/the decision of either following my plans or simply going w/the flow. I opted for the "flow" (which ditched all of the historical fiction and landed in the "good" and "great" books category) and the rewards still have me wondering if my dd is the same child I had at the beginning of 7th grade. She has literally experienced so much mental growth this yr that it is hard for me to even explain.

 

She has fallen in love w/Shakespeare and poetry. (and that she did not get from me or my enthusiasm......conversely, I have caught it from her!!!)

 

I'm 1/2 asleep and need to get to bed, but there is a quote from something I read to day that is nagging my memory b/c it sums up so much of what I am thinking. If I have time tomorrow, I will see if I can try to remember what it is. (though, w/my swiss cheese brain, I might only end up w/the nag and not the memory!! :tongue_smilie:)

 

Please share what you have done, b/c I would love to read something that someone else has done w/the same sort of outcome so that I don't feel like I am nuts!

 

Oh, and one other decision dd and I made together is to not rush next yr away. Originally we were going to do LLfLOTR. But, after talking about it and realizing that as an 8th grader her yr is really wide open to complete freedom, she has decided to hold of on LL until 9th. She has opted to spend the yr on the Grimms Brother fairy tales if I can put together a challenging unit. I ordered an annotated anthology and The Owl, The Raven, and the Dove: The Religious Meaning of the Grimms' Magic Fairy Tales. We'll see if there is enough bunny food in them to create realistic trails. ;)

 

We've never done a lot of historical fiction. Ds was a delayed reader, still is a slow reader. In between reading history, science, non-fiction science, and literature we've run out of time.

 

This year (8th) ds has struggled with so much. It seems our literature is the one area that is really happening. Part of that is ds gets to listen to/help me reader LotR, listen to me read Beowulf. It's the love of story that is keeping him enthused.

 

I don't know what all this adds to the conversation, but until this year I would have said doing subjects together is the connection. We do math together for the most part, this year there is little connection, just a lot of frustration. So that's not the connection.

 

:bigear:

 

:grouphug: Paula, my 10th grader struggled so much. LLfLOTRs is what helped him grow into a lover of reading (that and the series Imaginarium Geographica) http://www.heretherebedragons.net/ (There are allusions innumerable in that series and he started seeking out answers to who/what was being referenced.) He is still an incredibly slow reader, accommodating for that, the frustration has disappeared and he has really blossomed and challenges himself more than i am comfortable with. For ds, it was about this time of yr in 8th grade where things really started to gel for him.

 

I hope your ds finds his feet and that something connects w/him.

 

I think if you have a good reader that loves to read, this is not an issue. But if you have kids who have struggled to read, who just are not avid readers, or who have other intense interests that require a good deal of time and focus, then you do have to -- at some point -- make a decision to prioritize what that child is reading, at least their required reading for school.

 

My oldest is widely read. She enjoys it. But even with her, we have gotten to a point where the good has crowded out the best and the urgent has trumped the important, in places. We have had a good run with being history-centric, and I don't regret that. But each year, I try to look at what my true goals are and if I have met them -- and then, based on that, what my focus for the next year needs to be, including the time and resources to do that well.

 

 

 

This is my experience as well. My oldest and youngest sons especially are both slow readers. My oldest has never read a book that wasn't assigned. Youngest ds is now a reader, but still painfully slow and choosing the "whats" is important.

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Paula, I think there is a lot to be said for doing subjects together. Up until mid-January, my relationship with my oldest son was really suffering. He was performing poorly in his on-line schooling and he was angry all the time. At that point, I couldn't chalk it up to just to being 16. We started family counseling and I spent two weeks helping him pull himself out of the abyss and get ready for finals. We worked through every assignment in his worst subjects, often drinking coffee together into the wee hours. I learned so much about him in that time. Life has been good since then. I continue to do the chemistry and Spanish lessons with him. I think he feels valued and competent and it shows in his attitude. He had really gotten lost in shuffle with dd's depression.

 

About 8th grade, I am glad to hear that literature is going well. You really can't go wrong with LLofLOTR. I am also sorry that the rest of it isn't going how you would like it to. I am guessing that some of the frustration is in part due to the Hormonal Half-Wit Syndrome that strikes around this age. Swimmer dude has always been my most together child. Now, a stranger has taken over his body and leaves crackers in the refrigerator and milk in the pantry. He has never really followed "the crowd" and recently, I caught him taking the cinnamon challenge. See, HH-WS.:tongue_smilie:

 

What are you two doing for history this year?

 

Yes, I think the math part of his brain fell out with some dying cells. Poor kid, what used to seem intuitive to him now takes much frustration.

 

For history we've studied the Renaissance, Reformation, and now Elizabethan eras. We've used theses books, which are a nice narrative. They have lots of pictures and go in depth on a few individuals and topics. I'm debating on using more of the series as our library has them all.

 

I think if you have a good reader that loves to read, this is not an issue. But if you have kids who have struggled to read, who just are not avid readers, or who have other intense interests that require a good deal of time and focus, then you do have to -- at some point -- make a decision to prioritize what that child is reading, at least their required reading for school.

 

.

 

That was the choice we had to make. One year, I think 6th, I assigned two large historical fiction titles for him to read. Both were over 300 pages and it took him 4-5 months to finish. It certainly was a big accomplishment for him, but we couldn't read much at that pace. Thankfully he enjoys being read to.

 

I would love to hear what you have done this yr with swimmerdude. With dd, it has been stunning to watch her level of comprehension, vocabulary, and connections blossom. I have written about what we have done on the logic board. The entire study has been "organic." I haven't tried to control it or contain it......let me explain that......

 

 

 

:grouphug: Paula, my 10th grader struggled so much. LLfLOTRs is what helped him grow into a lover of reading (that and the series Imaginarium Geographica) http://www.heretherebedragons.net/ (There are allusions innumerable in that series and he started seeking out answers to who/what was being referenced.) He is still an incredibly slow reader, accommodating for that, the frustration has disappeared and he has really blossomed and challenges himself more than i am comfortable with. For ds, it was about this time of yr in 8th grade where things really started to gel for him.

 

I hope your ds finds his feet and that something connects w/him.

 

Thank you, I'll check out Imaginarium.

Edited by elegantlion
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Oh, and one other decision dd and I made together is to not rush next yr away. Originally we were going to do LLfLOTR. But, after talking about it and realizing that as an 8th grader her yr is really wide open to complete freedom, she has decided to hold of on LL until 9th. She has opted to spend the yr on the Grimms Brother fairy tales if I can put together a challenging unit. I ordered an annotated anthology and The Owl, The Raven, and the Dove: The Religious Meaning of the Grimms' Magic Fairy Tales. We'll see if there is enough bunny food in them to create realistic trails. ;)

 

 

There is MORE Than enough. More. But I would warn that once you learn how much the tales have been altered from the Grimm's original writings, you're not going to want to use any old fairy tale book (which has been my problem) UNLESS you plan on picking out the differences. Well meaning but ignorant authors wrote out of much of the most important imagery. It's the one reason I've struggled in doing the same plan. (I wanted to 'go back to the beginning' in a sense, and start at fairy tales. Then, when I gave them a choice, they all picked Grimm.) But I cannot sing the praises of that book enough.

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I think if you have a good reader that loves to read, this is not an issue. But if you have kids who have struggled to read, who just are not avid readers, or who have other intense interests that require a good deal of time and focus, then you do have to -- at some point -- make a decision to prioritize what that child is reading, at least their required reading for school.

 

Yes-that. My oldest DD HATES to read. Although she enjoys some of the things I make her read(Witch of Blackbird Pond, Little House books) she is sill not grabbing that book to sit down with or picking that book on her own. She needs to be told what to read, how many pages per night, you get the idea.

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Maybe someone can link me to the original discussion because I'm not sure I understand. Good literature is historical and I'm not sure how you separate it... I thought in elementary that Johnny Tremain was good literature and historical... A Tale of Two Cities doesn't make any sense if you don't understand the history of the times. I like to do my literature with the history because I don't have to explain so much. For example, I read Animal Farm in 9th grade. I knew it was about the Soviet Union, but didn't understand it really. When we read it, my children IMMEDIATELY saw the connection and were able to tell what characters in the story represented which historical people. It made sense to them whereas it didn't to me. I guess maybe you are talking about historical fiction that isn't literature???? When we do it, we have certain literature selections that are required that we do together. They normally have some biographies and nonfiction selections as well. Then I have some fluffy selections that I have out if they wish to read them.

 

All of that said, if you have a child who hates to read, I can see you might need to make choices. Books are devoured like candy around here. I can't imagine leaving out some historical fiction because that is what one of my sons LOVED as a little kid and it encouraged his love of history. We did fine as my STEM child actually scored higher on the SAT reading section than his math section!!!!!

 

I guess I don't understand how you can distinguish between the two.

 

The gist of the other conversation was that an overcommittment to integrating literature and history led to missing a number of great works of literature that didn't fit into a neat historical period or that fell into a period that had many representational works. At the same time, a search for fiction that matched a period meant that some substandard works were read just because they had a certain era as the setting.

 

Just to give an example from my house, we started reading Johnny Tremain, but life got away from me. I put it back on the shelf unfinished because we had moved past the Revolution. (And yes, I should have known better.)

 

I have one kid reading Carry On, Mr. Bowditch, I'm planning to finish reading Johnny Tremain and move into a reading of Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing. Meanwhile we have readings of Dickens and Roman Mysteries also going.

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I am moving away from history centered anything. My students have unfortunately missed tons of great elementary and junior high literature because I spent so long trying to line up history/literature/bible/geography/and-whatever-else-maybe-could-be-added. I was just this morning sorting through choices for high school literature and am excited to feel free once again to choose reading that I think my ds(s) will actually enjoy rather than something that just happens to fit into this-and-so historical period.

 

Sorry I don't have any substantive to add. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's wonderful that you're feeling that excitement again. As I was doing long term planning I started to feel that urge to line up history and lit. I'm now going revisit our plan for next year.

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Ok, I'll jump in here. I intentionally avoided the Circe thread because it was so huge and I'm at the point in my homeschooling that I no longer feel the need to debate philosophy. I also have had quite enough of Someone telling me that This Method is the BEST and my children will be woefully behind if I attempt another path, or that Moms who really love their kids use This Method, or This Method will save civilization. What.ev.er. :tongue_smilie:

:D

 

I think the distinguishing mark is between history directed (imo, suggested) and history DICTATED.

 

I agree with the P.P. who said I don't know how you distinguish history from good literature as you must understand one to love and understand the context of other. But I see what you're saying now... History was the absolute ruler over what you read or didn't read.

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When my older kids were in elementary, pretty much all our assigned reading was tied to history. But fortunately they were both avid readers and they still read a ton of children's classics along with the historical fiction. And because they loved to read, the historical fiction brought history alive for them. With them, at that time, I was able to "have it all."

 

The situation is much different now. In middle school, we've started reading literature as part of our English studies, and they also read good literature for their book club. There simply isn't time to read tons of historical fiction along with history and actually get through history.

 

And, for my younger, she fits perfectly the description by this PP:

Yes-that. My oldest DD HATES to read. Although she enjoys some of the things I make her read(Witch of Blackbird Pond, Little House books) she is sill not grabbing that book to sit down with or picking that book on her own. She needs to be told what to read, how many pages per night, you get the idea.
I decided about a year or so ago to skip most historical fiction for her. I do require some short biographies and I am still using some picture books. But I've decided it's much more important for this reluctant reader to read books with good vocabulary and complex sentence structure than force historical fiction down her throat, which does not, for her, bring history alive, but rather make her hate both history and reading. :glare: If I stick to quality children's literature, she may still only read what she's told to, but she usually really enjoys the books in retrospect, and it's much more valuable to her language skills.

 

I've realized I've still been trying to somewhat hang on to some historical fiction for the older kids. But I'm reaching the conclusion that it's just too much. We're doing LLfLOTR, so they're halfway through LoTR, and we've listened to Gawain and the Green Knight and Beowulf (translations of the poems, not retellings), they're currently reading The Once and Future King and next up is Connecticut Yankee (that one's for book club, but I may have had ulterior motives putting it on the list this year). I had them read Colum's Norse Myths (Odin's Children) which I guess isn't exactly literature but I thought was important for cultural reference. For literature aligned with history, I'd also like to get to El Cid and some of Canterbury Tales, at least retellings of Don Quixote and Divine Comedy and even The Prince and Utopia. I was going to have them read Song of Roland, but ended up going with a short retelling and reading a few stanzas of the translated poem. For the crusades, I think they'll just read Ivanhoe and skip the other three historical novels on the list. They've also got 10 books over the year for their book club (which other than Yankee are not aligned at all with their history, and most of them are good literature). The recently-written stories of kids their age set in bygone times will just have to go, I think. It's hard to let go!

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I had them read Colum's Norse Myths (Odin's Children) which I guess isn't exactly literature but I thought was important for cultural reference.

 

It's actually really important to read those old Nordic Myths, because the imagery of certain characters comes up again and again in other stories and fairy tales. Wagner's Seigfried is at the top of my mind-- Brynhilde's circle of fire around the castle is almost like Briar Rose's castle encircled by a ring (crown) of thorns and how Seigfried is the only one who can go through the flames, and how The Prince is the only one who can get through the thorns.

 

We've loved the other books you've chosen, too.

Edited by justamouse
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I thought in elementary that Johnny Tremain was good literature and historical... A Tale of Two Cities doesn't make any sense if you don't understand the history of the times. I like to do my literature with the history because I don't have to explain so much. For example, I read Animal Farm in 9th grade. I knew it was about the Soviet Union, but didn't understand it really. When we read it, my children IMMEDIATELY saw the connection and were able to tell what characters in the story represented which historical people. It made sense to them whereas it didn't to me. I guess maybe you are talking about historical fiction that isn't literature???? When we do it, we have certain literature selections that are required that we do together. They normally have some biographies and nonfiction selections as well. Then I have some fluffy selections that I have out if they wish to read them.

 

All of that said, if you have a child who hates to read, I can see you might need to make choices. Books are devoured like candy around here. I can't imagine leaving out some historical fiction because that is what one of my sons LOVED as a little kid and it encouraged his love of history. We did fine as my STEM child actually scored higher on the SAT reading section than his math section!!!!!

 

I guess I don't understand how you can distinguish between the two.

:iagree:

 

We don't do a lot of fiction novels about history; some, but not many. So maybe that's what the OP is asking about.

 

However, as far as great literature, it is a part of the time it was written and the time it is written about, and often the interaction of the two. Mark Twain and Charles Dickens can be compared in terms of enjoyment of literature and writing style, but it will go so much deeper if you understand when and where they were writing.

 

Maybe it's just the way I am wired. I don't do as well when reading random things, without some kind of order or structure behind it. I might enjoy it, but I won't really get as much or remember as much. I do read randomly sometimes, and my son does random sometimes (especially in his book club, since he doesn't read by choice). But we get more out of it when it's in some kind of order. So for school reading, we put it in order :)

 

Julie

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It's actually really important to read those old Nordic Myths, because the imagery of certain characters comes up again and again in other stories and fairy tales. Wagner's Seigfried is at the top of my mind-- Brynhilde's circle of fire around the castle is almost like Briar Rose's castle encircled by a ring (crown) of thorns and how Seigfried is the only one who can go through the flames, and how The Prince is the only one who can get through the thorns.

 

This was exactly my thinking. Colum's book is great because it includes all the Wagnerian stuff too - Brynhilde and Fafnir and Siegfried. I never really had a handle on the Norse Myths before this (unlike the Greek/Roman which I knew well) - I knew the names and some isolated stories, but didn't get a handle on the storyline as a whole. After reading Odin's Children I finally get it!

 

I read Ragnarok by A.S. Byatt as dessert. Didn't make the kids read that, though. Same problem - not enough time!

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When I began reading this thread, there was a disconnect for me. Why would you miss any good books by linking them to historical periods? What I didn't get was the impact of having a slow or uninterested reader. I've never known someone like that. I love to read, my kids love to read, my mom loved to read, my sister, my friends, my college roommate... really I have live surrounded by readers. I had never thought of what happens for those who just don't.:001_huh:

 

I assign a lot of books connected to a historical period, because it enhances the understanding of that period and of the book. However, we all read other books constantly in addition. My kids have read amazing numbers of children's classics. They have also ready plenty of twaddle - just for fun. Ds loves fantasy and has read good quality fantasy like CS Lewis and Tolkien along with every junk fantasy novel in the young adult section of the library:lol:. I have never had to prioritize their reading, because they read a lot. I also read aloud - still. I am always reading something that I love. Sometimes they are books that stretch my kids other times they are just for the joy found in the flow of the words or in the story.

 

All that said, I think I would look at literature quite differently if I didn't know my kids would read more than I assign. I would definitely still keep historically linked books in. I still feel they have great value in increasing understanding of the period and that by studying them while studying the historical period greater understanding of the book is also gained. However, I think I would decrease the number of these history tie-ins in order to make room for other books, no matter when they were written or what they were written about.

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When I began reading this thread, there was a disconnect for me. Why would you miss any good books by linking them to historical periods? What I didn't get was the impact of having a slow or uninterested reader. I've never known someone like that. I love to read, my kids love to read, my mom loved to read, my sister, my friends, my college roommate... really I have live surrounded by readers. I had never thought of what happens for those who just don't.:001_huh:

 

I am still completely flummoxed that I have one of these disinterested readers. I love to read; my older two love to read; for a long time I thought I just needed to wait till it kicked in. Maybe it still will (Swimmerdude gives me hope). But I think it's more likely to if I only require her to read the really good stuff. She has read Percy Jackson without my requiring it, but she hasn't even gotten all the way through the Harry Potter series (not required, but who doesn't want to finish Harry Potter??).

 

(Btw, I'll blame her lack of reading enthusiasm on dh's genes - he's an engineer and I think he only reads computer manuals for fun...)

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Maybe someone can link me to the original discussion because I'm not sure I understand. Good literature is historical and I'm not sure how you separate it... I thought in elementary that Johnny Tremain was good literature and historical... A Tale of Two Cities doesn't make any sense if you don't understand the history of the times. I like to do my literature with the history because I don't have to explain so much. For example, I read Animal Farm in 9th grade. I knew it was about the Soviet Union, but didn't understand it really. When we read it, my children IMMEDIATELY saw the connection and were able to tell what characters in the story represented which historical people. It made sense to them whereas it didn't to me. I guess maybe you are talking about historical fiction that isn't literature???? When we do it, we have certain literature selections that are required that we do together. They normally have some biographies and nonfiction selections as well. Then I have some fluffy selections that I have out if they wish to read them.

 

All of that said, if you have a child who hates to read, I can see you might need to make choices. Books are devoured like candy around here. I can't imagine leaving out some historical fiction because that is what one of my sons LOVED as a little kid and it encouraged his love of history. We did fine as my STEM child actually scored higher on the SAT reading section than his math section!!!!!

 

I guess I don't understand how you can distinguish between the two.

 

The original discussion is on the k-8 board. Be forewarned that is has grown into a book vs. a thread. ;)

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359457

 

If you follow the discussion on the thread, no one is suggesting that historical relevance to literature is unnecessary. Quite the contrary, actually. However, what is being discussed it linking the reading of "school yr literature selections" to history.

 

Since the conversation is on the k8 board, that has been my primary focus (though I am going a different path w/my high schooler next yr as well.)

 

Anyway, a brief summation of the thread (only in regards to historical fiction and literature b/c the scope of the thread goes far beyond that focus) would be along the lines of some of the best children's literature is not historical fiction and the focus on historical fiction often leaves better literature ignored. (for example, Princess and the Goblin would never be assigned if only assigning reading linked to history.) That is not the same thing as suggesting that historical relevance is ignored while reading certain works.

 

HTH clarify what Lisa posted to discuss.

 

FWIW, I am very guilty of planning our lit around history. Let the Authors Speak has been my handbook for lesson planning for yrs. In the process, I have let some of the best children's books be neglected. I lamented about that decision on the K8 thread. This yr I have gone the completely opposite direction and let lit drive our history (which means we are focusing on the lit and then tying in the historical relevance, not ignoring it ;) ) and it has been one of my best school yrs in my 18 yrs of homeschooling. (when we did the same thing w/LLfLOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia, those yrs were also top-rated experiences.)

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This is how it is in our house as well. I love to read! Growing up my best friend's mother was a librarian, I always had/have my nose in a book. Dc so far take after my engineer dh, they read for utility more than pleasure.

 

These last few threads have made me think a lot about our reading selections and my focus.

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I'm curious to see if others have had a similar experience to me...

 

I DO have one who *was* less than enthusiastic about reading.

 

Let's see if I can put it into words.

 

So, my second was NOT a natural reader. As a matter of fact we've discovered (and are getting him evaluated for) dyslexia. DH hates (understatement) to read. DD #1 and DD #3 might die without books. They'd be better off without air. DD #2 is ambivalent. DS #2 cannot read but ADORES books on tapes.

 

However, having a child who doesn't LOVE reading I needed a force, some mystical magnetic pull, to attract him to reading. ;) History was that.

 

We attracted him with SOTW, biographies about wars and generals, and worked in good, easy literature once in a while until it became much easier for him and he wasn't so... intimidated.

 

IF *I* had let him read less and only he insisted he read the highest quality lit books, which, eventually become the hardest books, I might never have captured him, kwim? I needed the "tie-ins" to history, the gardening books, the rabbit books, the war books... I DESPERATELY had to seek out these books and work in the good literature (at or below) his level for, well, YEARS.

 

I actually wonder if I had said, "Well, getting you to read is like pulling teeth so I will only insist you read THIS book" if I wouldn't be setting myself up for failure. Because, simply reading LESS or reading simpler books does NOT set a child up to be CAPABLE of reading and digesting more complex literature. It's a great theory but in my experience with other homeschooled kids in co-op and in life, the ability to enjoy, dissect, discuss, and love literature can be cultivated but they really and truly cannot pick up quality 8th grade literature out of the blue and have the ability to really analyze and understand what is going on in it.

 

The ability to analyze literature is very much like a Couch to 5K program. You can't expect to hop off the couch once in a while and have a great workout. It just doesn't happen and it's brutally painful to watch someone try.

 

Thoughts?

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IF *I* had let him read less and only he insisted he read the highest quality lit books, which, eventually become the hardest books, I might never have captured him, kwim? I needed the "tie-ins" to history, the gardening books, the rabbit books, the war books... I DESPERATELY had to seek out these books and work in the good literature (at or below) his level for, well, YEARS.

 

If I hadn't let my kids read a lot of twaddle in first and second grade, I don't think either of them would have learned to love reading. Ds learned to love reading from Calvin & Hobbs, then Geronimo Stilton and most of all The Secrets of Droon. He was an early and excellent reader, but didn't read voraciously until he met books that HE loved. Dd became a book lover when she started reading The Baby Sitter Club Little Sister books. These were so basic and boring I could hardly stand it! She is still not as voracious as her brother. I think that is because she likes different stuff than the rest of us and has more trouble locating it.

 

Reading more narrowly and only good/great books would NOT have developed my kids into book lovers. That much is for sure.

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IF *I* had let him read less and only he insisted he read the highest quality lit books, which, eventually become the hardest books, I might never have captured him, kwim? I needed the "tie-ins" to history, the gardening books, the rabbit books, the war books... I DESPERATELY had to seek out these books and work in the good literature (at or below) his level for, well, YEARS.

 

I think this is really kid-dependent (hey, what isn't?). For my reluctant reader, it's not her ability that's lacking, it's interest. The twaddle books didn't help. She was left cold by Magic Tree House, Droon, Cam Jansen - all things my other kids loved. The historical fiction they loved she hated. What she preferred at that younger age was fairy tales (which actually have richer language than those early chapter books).

 

The first bigger book she picked up and read without my nagging her was Alice in Wonderland. :confused: But then I couldn't get her to read Through the Looking Glass because I looked too eager. :glare: Although she wouldn't read them without their being on her book club list and telling her how many chapters she had to read a night, she really enjoyed (after she'd finished them) Peter Pan, The Jungle Book, books by Dahl, Eager and Nesbit. I think she likes funny and she likes fantasy. Historical fiction doesn't offer a lot of that. The historical fiction she doesn't like even after the fact.

 

And you'd think she'd eat up stuff by, say, Gail Carson Levine, but even though she also enjoys them after the fact, I still have to assign chapters or at least remind her to read them, so I figure I might as well give her stuff with richer language. But if those books had, in fact, lit her passion for reading, I'd be buying her a cartload and letting her have at it (in fact, I think I did buy her a bunch of those in hope that would do it). She did read the Percy Jackson novels with no nagging, so I happily let her do that, but it hasn't sparked her wanting to read anything else in particular. It's been trial and error with this kid. Where did she come from???

Edited by matroyshka
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Lisa, I am very interested to hear the details of your year regarding literature. If you let your ds choose his books, did you give him a list to choose from or did you give him free reign? How were you able to research for his books and find accompanying resources on short notice?

 

I am liking the idea of prelection (sp?) but I just don't know how to fit in the time for research and preparation. What with learning latin, algebra, logic and pre-reading for dc, I just don't know how to get all the research done for the books, so I am interested to hear how you did this. :001_smile:

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I find it helpful to have a few books going at once. A time period/ history read aloud, a time period/ history reader, and a good book choice. They can read whatever else they want at bedtime if they do the above.

Edited by LNC
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:blushing:I am so sorry. This is a bit like inviting everyone to coffee and then not being there when they arrive. The floor installers are coming earlier then we expected, so we have been madly texturing the new walls, priming and painting and moving furniture. I hope to return this evening with our bizarre year in literature and am looking forward to reading about what you all are doing.

 

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::blink: Swimmermom discovering the texture is not quite as dry as it should be before priming. Darn those pinholes.

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Johnny Tremain (which btw everyone in this house loathes

 

Shari! I think you are the very first person who has ever said that...aloud! :lol: :D Gosh, we absolutely hated Johnny Tremain. We plugged along in that book, and I forced it because...well...EVERYONE loves it, right? WRONG. What a complete waste of valuable time that we can't get back. ;)

 

In fact, I found that reading historical fiction ala SL killed my ds's love of history. Too much historical fiction can be just that, too much. Whereas he has LOVED reading classics like The Hobbit, The Princess and the Goblin, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Frankenstein, Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, and even The Iliad, to name a few. We rarely read historical fiction just to 'flesh out' our history studies anymore. I feel that has been one of the most beneficial changes we have made in our school.

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FWIW, I don't think the idea is to read literature that is not "on the level" gradewise, though some of us certainly have to make adjustments. The idea is WHAT are they reading and WHEN are they reading it. I mean, really, you can't read everything. Something is going to get left out, even with gung-ho readers.

 

I have a neurotypical 8th grader who is a great reader, though he doesn't particularly like to do it. If a book is not assigned for school, he is not likely to pick it up for pleasure. He has followed a 4-year type history based sequence through almost all of his schooling. So he has spent years reading stuff like Shakespeare for Children, G. A. Henty, Follow the Drinking Gourd, and Shh! We're Writing the Constitution. Is there anything wrong with those books? No, of course not. But he could have been reading Tom Sawyer, Sherlock Holmes, Holes, Jules Verne, and The Indian in the Cupboard.

 

When I look at that list, I know which books I'd rather read.

 

My younger son is dyslexic and the idea of force-feeding him historical literature makes me ill. Don't even wanna go there. There is a person on the Special Needs board whose dd says that WTM was invented to torture SN kids, and I pretty much agree. (Of course that's tongue in cheek. But the extreme difficulty of a GB reading/writing dependent course of study for SN kids cannot be understated.) For that child, hooking him into the world of literature through audiobooks was the only way he was ever going to be exposed to anything having to do with reading.

 

Back to the bolded above: I don't think historical fiction has a corner on the market of preparing kids to analyze literature. All you've got to do is look through the Newbery Medal list to see that there is plenty of challenging, quality fiction out there for tweens and pre-high schoolers. When someone says they are not reading historical fiction, or even necessarily reading Classics, I don't assume they spend all their time with Choose Your Own Adventure or Magic Tree House.

 

What I found over eight years of following the 4-year history rotation was that the age appropriate "fun" books were often neglected in favor of more serious "schoolish" books. I didn't read ds Mouse & the Motorcycle; we were busy with Black Ships Before Troy. James & the Giant Peach? Nope. It's Year 2 so we're reading some book about Joan of Arc that neither of us remember now. Mrs Frisby & Rats of NIMH? No again; it's Johnny Tremain (which btw everyone in this house loathes

 

Maybe that's not what the rotation looks like in other homes, but that is what it was here. And I really, really regret it.

 

(Oh wow didn't realize I felt this strongly :blush:)

 

Maybe that's not what the rotation looks like in other homes, but that is what it was here. And I really,
really
regret it.

 

(Oh wow didn't realize I felt this strongly :blush:)

 

Oh, my.......you and I both!! :D:tongue_smilie:

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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I have chosen historical fiction that *are* classics for my children to read. There are a lot of those out there. And by considering the historical period we are studying when choosing lit, I have stumbled across wonderful books that I never knew existed. Joan of Arc by Mark Twain. Did you know he considered it his best book? The White Company by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Not deep, but a wonderful yarn about the crusading period for a 6th grader to read.

 

It seems to me that the main complaint people have had is that historical fiction for elementary school is typically subpar to children's classics, which are rarely about history. However, IMHO by the time you hit high school level classics, the historical period is a part of the literature you are reading so they blend very well. Next year for the early modern period, we will be reading The Count of Monte Cristo, The Last of the Mohicans, Poe, among many others. This is obviously excellent literature, but we still study it in a historical context. I can't quite see the problem everyone is talking about, unless it is really just elementary school reading that the discussion is revolving around.

 

Ruth in NZ

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If anyone is interested, in my signature is our lists of books. We haven't covered them all, but they are there. You'll see they are a mixed lot! PLENTY arranged by time period, but many added because they are just to good to miss and really deserve a certain place in a child's life - whether that means elementary or high school!

 

So, if you're looking for balance and ideas that are historical AND some lit that is just mixed in for nothing other than literature's sake, then this is my 15yodd's idea of what simply MUST be read in a good childhood, lol. Click on the links to the left once you're at GoodReads and she has them arranged both by time period and by age of a child.

 

:D

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Shari! I think you are the very first person who has ever said that...aloud! :lol: :D Gosh, we absolutely hated Johnny Tremain. We plugged along in that book, and I forced it because...well...EVERYONE loves it, right? WRONG. What a complete waste of valuable time that we can't get back. ;)

 

In fact, I found that reading historical fiction ala SL killed my ds's love of history. Too much historical fiction can be just that, too much. Whereas he has LOVED reading classics like The Hobbit, The Princess and the Goblin, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Frankenstein, Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, and even The Iliad, to name a few. We rarely read historical fiction just to 'flesh out' our history studies anymore. I feel that has been one of the most beneficial changes we have made in our school.

 

:iagree:I have wasted so much time/money buying books and planning out history and literature...only to dump it and cover those things separately.

 

I have owned Johnny Tremain about 4 different times and sold it every time.

 

My dc enjoyed many of the classics but not tied to history in any way. History is history...we use a textbook. Literature is not tied to history at our house. If something happens to line up, that's okay...if not...that's normal!

 

Robin

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Maybe that's not what the rotation looks like in other homes, but that is what it was here. And I really, really regret it.

 

(Oh wow didn't realize I felt this strongly :blush:)

 

:) My second year of homeschooling we read books related to historical topics. While we did some literature, it was limited. I switched my children's reading books to literature the next school year and it was a very good move for us. We still do a little historical fiction, but it is part of history time.

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:blushing:I am so sorry. This is a bit like inviting everyone to coffee and then not being there when they arrive. The floor installers are coming earlier then we expected, so we have been madly texturing the new walls, priming and painting and moving furniture. I hope to return this evening with our bizarre year in literature and am looking forward to reading about what you all are doing.

 

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::blink: Swimmermom discovering the texture is not quite as dry as it should be before priming. Darn those pinholes.

 

Ok.......you know, I hope your walls are getting done. But, my coffee pot (and a bottle of wine) are empty. (tapping foot :lol:)

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Hi Lisa!

Coming in very late to your party here :tongue_smilie:, and probably don't have anything meaningful to say, other than, "you go girl"!

 

 

I realize that during our 12 years of homeschooling, I've rather unconsciously done what you are now "breaking out" to: just go and enjoy reading the good stuff; if some of it links up the the History, well and good -- but don't, as you say, wrap the Lit. around the History. AND, just enjoy the treasures of well-written books -- and at the age-appropriate time.

 

BTW, that last comment is one of my big "bug-a-boos" -- I feel like too often I see homeschoolers pushing children too young for it yet to read all the adult classics at the expense of missing all the wonderful children/young adult classics! For example, I just feel like shrieking when I see "Wuthering Heights" or "Lord of the Flies on a middle school reading list!

 

We did both of those last year; DSs were gr. 11 and 12, and the whole time, I kept thinking, "thank *heavens* we waited!" -- not so because I was trying to "shelter" from the brutality in each work, but because each work in its own way is incredibly well-crafted, subtle, multi-layered -- each work requires mature reading and analyzing abilities. I had read both books in my early 20s, and was just amazed at how much MORE I got out of the books -- and really enjoyed the experience! -- this time around. And while DSs and I were able to talk through some of the themes and depth, I know they were missing a LOT of it because they are still young -- they don't have the life experience and years of reading behind them yet to "plumb the depths" and riches there.

 

I know SWB herself has said there are Great Books that *should* be waited for, until you've gained the life experience to begin to connect, understand, and interact with the work. (At well over 40yo, maybe I am finally *almost* ready to try and tackle Melville, Joyce, and Faulkner -- :lol:)

 

(Just amending myself slightly -- obviously, if you have a mature reader and you've been doing a lot of Literature together, and you know your student's abilities, strengths, and interests, then, yes Wuthering Heights or Lord of the Flies may very well be a perfect fit for your particular student at an earlier age. the key here (at least to me) is having done the Literature journey *together* so you know your student, and know where you can go from there. :) )

 

 

One other thing resonated with me in what you were saying, Lisa -- and that is *enjoyment* in the Literature. Not saying we don't use a little guidance there or only stick with "easy" reads (we give a very gentle little push here and there), but doing works that will really connect with our DC. Like Nan in Mass said, doing the Literary Lord of the Rings study one year was one of our all-time high water marks in homeschooling -- we did it the year that was perfect timing for DSs in their interests and abilities -- thank heavens we didn't feel we had to stick to just ancient classics that year (we were doing ancient history) -- what a wonderful, rich, deep, meaningful experience we would have missed out on! And older DS still say that, in addition to LLftLotR, his favorite high school Literature year was the year we followed his high interest in worldview, and did all classic Sci-Fi works, looking especially at the worldview in each.

 

 

Lisa, I suspect that what happens with homeschoolers, perhaps especially with classical homeschoolers, is that in a genuine desire to have a high level of rigor in our studies, combined with a desire to cover as much and as deeply as we can, we have latched on to the very powerful organizing tool of the chronological, sequential nature of History. But, that's such a powerful tool that it can overpower other equally worthy goals in education -- as you say, History becomes the organizing principle around which we wrap everything else.

 

I think the other thing that happens is that as homeschoolers, we get caught up in the idea that we "must have scientific/organized ways of reading the Great Books" -- that the purpose is to *edify* ourselves -- so we need to make one-to-one correlations that leave no room for layers or differing interpretations (i.e. "in this book the symbolism is: red = passion"), or have a list of Socratic questions to check off as we read. I'm not saying that those Socratic questions don't have a use -- they can be a great springboard from which to dive into the deep end of the pool -- but once the "list of questions" launches you into thought/discussion, you leave the list (the springboard) behind so you can swim around and explore the underwater world.

 

Again, resources like "How to Read Like a Professor" or "How to Read a Book" may sometimes be helpful -- I think they can be a transitioning tool especially for those who are naturally gifted in the science/logic/engineering/sequential way of thinking and who struggle with the non-linear of Literature. BUT, such resources should only be a bridge to help you cross over from the Straight Streets of Logic into the uncharted Woodland of Metaphor; once you arrive in that Woodland, it's time to leave off cataloging the types of trees you see, and start enjoying the experience of being in the Woodland, and to receive some of the revelations and epiphanies there are to be had while wandering and wondering in the Woodland realm. ;) (courtesy of images/ideas in Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories")

 

 

I think I'm going to need to read Alan Jacobs' book, The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction; here's an excerpt from Lauren Winner's review/response in "Books & Culture", to Jacobs' book (read Winner's entire article here):

 

"The true enemy of reading is a sibilant voice that begins telling us, around about middle school, that reading is something we do, not because we enjoy it, but because it will make us somehow better. The voice tells us that reading is something we should do -- we should read a book the way we take a vitamin. [Alan] Jacobs' The Pleasures of Reading is, above all, a brief for enjoyment. Jacobs reminds us that most of us learned to read by being read to as children -- we learned to read in the lap of a loving parent, grandparent, or aunt. Reading thus 'starts for many of us in a warm cocoon of security, accompnaied by an unassailable sense of being loved.' But it is 'gradually and inexorably' turned into 'a site of stress.' We have to read what we are told (explicitly or implicitly) to read, and we begin to think that reading is about self-improvement, not pleasure, let alone love.

 

Among the culprits Jacobs blames for this are books like Mortimer Adler's 1940 How to Read a Book. Such instructive manuals have taught a large portion of the American reading public to be suspicious of books that aren't in some way 'certifiably good for you. Jacobs wants you to read the books that delight you. The conflict between these two rival conceptions of reading has a very long history, one episode... came to dominate American reading in the early 20th centure: readers strove to 'read up', that is to improve themselves and elevate their status by reading those books that 'experts have deemed "the best".'...

 

Jacobs wants people to recover the ability to practice 'deep attention' inside a book -- not to read hastily because one is reading what one has to for school, or because one is note-taking for information; not to read distractedly, with half one's thoughts elsewhere; but to read with sustained focus, to allow one's self to become absorbed by a book. And the deep attention one cultivates in reading allows one to practice deep attention in other settings too... Finally, Jacobs is writing about joy. He wants us to find in reading, not anxious 'reading up', but pleasure, whimsy. He wants the practice of reading to be a practice of joy...

 

 

Wishing you joy in your Literature journey together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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