kama Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I had a (very) long post typed up but realized there was so much to read no one was going to get through it, so I am going to try to make this shorter. The situation is this. I have a kindergarten daughter who is very sensitive and may have sensory issues/add but has not been formally tested or diagnosed with anything. She is gluten intolerant and I pack her a lunch every day but she eats at the same lunch table as the other kids. The plan had been to homeschool her but life happened, for various reasons the decision was made to send her to public school with the plan to afterschool. Well she is so zapped by the time she gets home there is no afterschooling her. I want to try to avoid pulling her out before the end of the year because she already has some big issues with fear of losing people and I want to try to bring this to a natural conclusion for her because the change is already going to be very hard. She is starting to have some major school anxiety though begging not to go to school, asking if it can be her weekend, stomach aches, headaches. She does alternate this with saying she "loves" her teacher and wants to be in her class forever. My primary concern right now (although there are MANY) is the way reading is taught. They are using the "Read Well" curriculum, which appears to be a blend of sight words and phonics, using reading circles. Each child has about 3 seconds to read their word, if they do not another child (the best reader in the group) is called on to "help" them read it by reading it themselves, and praised heavily. The child who can not read it (in this case my daughter) is scolded "you need to be participating". If the child has to sound out the word it does not count and they will be skipped. Threats "you have an assessment coming up, you need to pay attention so you can do well" and comparisons/shame "my other group does this just fine, I know you can too" are used as motivators. My daughter reads most of the worst that get sent home just fine at home. In reading group she refuses to participate, she has told me this is because she is afraid she will say the wrong word and she hates being wrong, or because she is reading too quietly and the teacher doesn't hear her. I got the teacher to send home the reading materials so we could practice, but I basically feel like I am teaching her to sight read even the phonetic words, just so she wont have to be afraid to read aloud in reading group. I am afraid this is going to cause her to hate reading her whole life. This is far from my only issue with the school but it is the most important one. I had planned to just let her finish the year and homeschool next year but this reading fear is really worrying me :( Should I keep practicing at home so she can do well in reading group even though it might be hurting her reading ability long term? What is going to hurt her more, letting her fail to read words in group and kill her confidence or teaching her to sight read everything? I do not even know that helping her memorize the words at home is going to decrease her fear in reading group, I think at this point that might already be so well established nothing is going to change it. What kind of power do I have to change something for my daughter within the system? Can I ask that they let her sit out reading group and practice reading independently? Or maybe negotiate for a half day and drop her off after reading group (it is first thing in the morning)? I am not sure what my rights are here or what I am legally able to do to make this less awful for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Have you talked to the teacher? I would start with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kama Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yes, the result of the meeting was copies of the weekly reading sent home to practice at home, and her repeatedly telling me (and my daughter) that she was failing the assessments, is not focused, does not pay attention, and that she was not emotionally ready for kindergarten. I by the way, am the one who intiated this meeting. I never got home any notes telling me that my daughter was doing poorly in school. Once a week I get a magazine saying "Great job! --- has completed unit xx, read this magazine with her!" Which I always do, and she always reads it fine. I had no idea she was doing "poorly" I initiated the meeting because my daughter seems so unhappy and is having serious school anxiety symptoms. Edited March 22, 2012 by kama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirstenH Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yes, the result of the meeting was copies of the weekly reading sent home to practice at home, and her repeatedly telling me (and my daughter) that she was failing the assessments, is not focused, does not pay attention, and that she was not emotionally ready for kindergarten. I by the way, am the one who intiated this meeting. I never got home any notes telling me that my daughter was doing poorly in school. Once a week I get a magazine saying "Great job! --- has completed unit xx, read this magazine with her!" Which I always do, and she always reads it fine. I had no idea she was doing "poorly" I initiated the meeting because my daughter seems so unhappy and is having serious school anxiety symptoms. The teacher doesn't think she belongs there, and that fact won't be lost on your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Have you had spring break yet? I'd consider pulling her out then. It's a clean break and the teacher will probably cooperate since she's so negative anyway. I would think that, if you are going to continue with her in ps, you'll need to get a diagnosis so that you can insist on accomodations. She's already unhappy about the reading group. If you taking her out of the school makes her unhappy you are just trading one upsetting situation for another and at least at home all day you'll be there to make her feel better, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If it were my DD, I would pull her out now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If she is begging not to go, and you plan to pull her out anyway at the end of the year, I would just go ahead and pull her out now. She doesn't want to go, you don't want her to go, there's no point in her going. Next time she asks if she can stay home, say "Yep, that sounds like a great idea...no more school." I am speaking from experience. My daughter started asking midway through 3rd grade to homeschool. I pulled her out midway through 4th grade. Now I'm kicking myself in the rear for not pulling her when she first asked, because her love for learning was severely affected in that time frame. :sad: My bright, inquisitive, interested child now has a sullen, whiny attitude about anything resembling learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I am so sorry for your daughter's negative school experience. That reading program sounds awful! :grouphug: I have older kids and look back with some regrets that I thought it was so important for them to attend every day of pre-school and placed such a high priority on their school attendance in the lower grades. We started both kids in public school and it was not a good fit. I wish I had pulled them out sooner. Every family and school situation is unique and it may make sense for your daughter to continue. Maybe for the same reasons you decided for her to go to school this year. But if you are planning on pulling her out at the end of this year, I agree with the pp it might make sense to do it around Spring Break. Hope it gets better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) What kind of power do I have to change something for my daughter within the system? Can I ask that they let her sit out reading group and practice reading independently? Or maybe negotiate for a half day and drop her off after reading group (it is first thing in the morning)? I am not sure what my rights are here or what I am legally able to do to make this less awful for her. You can definitely start bringing her later in the morning to miss reading. Or even skipping days if she has a tummy/head ache from the stress and just tell her that the two of you will "do school" at home that day. I would let them know that your DD's health requires a shorter day (or fewer days) and let it go at that. ETA: we did this for my youngest DD when kindergarten was killing her joy of learning thanks to a long-term sub who had no patience. We arrived late some days, left early on others, and some days just didn't show up at all. Edited March 23, 2012 by AK_Mom4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 First of all, you have all the power in the world. It's your child. There are things you can do, but given to what sounds like the negative attitude of the teacher, I'd pull her out. If your goal is to homeschool, why not now? The silence that this teacher is imposing on your daughter can have lasting effects. It is teaching her that silence is better than asking for help, that no answer is the best answer. Picture your daughter five or six years from now in the same type of classroom. Besides, this is kindergarten. There should be some type of joy before high stakes testing sets in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You can definitely start bringing her later in the morning to miss reading. Or even skipping days if she has a tummy/head ache from the stress and just tell her that the two of you will "do school" at home that day. I would let them know that your DD's health requires a shorter day (or fewer days) and let it go at that. ETA: we did this for my youngest DD when kindergarten was killing her joy of learning thanks to a long-term sub who had no patience. We arrived late some days, left early on others, and some days just didn't show up at all. Be careful if you go in late/leave early (usually will count as tardies and a certain number of tardies counts as an absence) or take days off. Although it's kindergarten, mandatory attendance typically still counts. I'd hate to see you get in trouble for truancy which might affect how they view your decision to homeschool (unwanted attention,etc). If possible, I'd pull her out. I hated readwell. It was a poor fit for my daughter. If you can't, I'd make her anxiety known to the school and document (with the teacher) every instance your daughter complains of stomach aches, etc. If she's gluten intolerant, I'm guessing you have a gastro you see? If so, check with him about the stomach aches and double check that she's not getting into some type of gluten at school. (Chocolate milk can occasionally have malt in it for instance which schools serve). I hope things are better for you soon. We had a similar situation with my daughter and pulled her out over the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 :iagree: Best to withdraw quietly, also. You don't have to say why you're leaving. We did the same thing with middle son. Simply took him out on a Friday, turned in the textbooks, and left. We never received a phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karensk Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ....She is starting to have some major school anxiety though begging not to go to school, asking if it can be her weekend, stomach aches, headaches. ....I do not even know that helping her memorize the words at home is going to decrease her fear in reading group, I think at this point that might already be so well established nothing is going to change it. What kind of power do I have to change something for my daughter within the system? Can I ask that they let her sit out reading group and practice reading independently? Or maybe negotiate for a half day and drop her off after reading group (it is first thing in the morning)? I am not sure what my rights are here or what I am legally able to do to make this less awful for her. If the stress level is causing things like headaches and stomach aches to a kindergartner, I would most likely withdraw the child from that situation. You do have power, but if the teacher ends up reluctantly/unwillingly accomodating your child, it still may not be a better atmosphere for your daughter. Can you get a read on how receptive the teacher is to you and to changing the way she does things? Two years ago, I started working at a local homeschool store and have loved every minute of it. But I've been astounded at the number of parents who have had to withdraw their children from school and start homeschooling them due to issues like yours. I meet new homeschoolers with these situations nearly every week these days. Hope things get better for your daughter quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) If your reasons for sending her to PS are no longer in effect then by all means homeschool. It could be a great option for your child. But to me it sounds like there are parts of school she's enjoying, she has difficulty losing people, and the only major issue is the reading instruction program and the way this particular teacher is implementing it. OK, so I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion. Feel free to take it or leave it. It's a long-winded explanation too so bear with me. The very same symptoms you describe my daughter also had. From the middle of Sept. to the middle of October she complained of headaches, stomach aches, etc. She'd get off the bus in tears and want nothing more than to decompress. She started getting into verbal tussles with kids, did some pushing and shoving, distracting others in class etc. That was and is COMPLETELY out of character for my child. COMPLETELY. DH and I talked to her. We punished her. Finally, we kept her home for a day/twoand just talked. It turned out she was struggling with math. Not because it was hard but because it was too easy. She was frustrated by the pace and the fact that she wasn't initially included in the high math group that walked to another room each day. I had known about her gift for math but didn't advocate for another placement because I didn't want to confront the school, make a fuss, etc. etc. I dislike drama. When I finally did tho, when I screwed up the courage to talk to the principal and the teacher and really advocate for my kiddo (and they worked with me to make changes), I swear I got my child back overnight. Within a week, she was back to normal. A switch flipped. She was happy. So my questions for you are (not knowing what your school/district is like), is there a) another more gentle teacher available? b) is there a reading pullout program available that she could go to rather than stay in the classroom? Would it be possible to meet with the teacher and principal to discuss your concerns re: classroom shaming (which is totally inappropriate) and the impact it's having on your child? Would the school be open to half-time enrollment (in our district that is perfectly OK for kindergarten since the state only funds 1/2 day) so that you can do reading instruction at home? If those things didn't yield positive results or the school was resistent or defensive or unwilling to work with me, THEN I'd pull my kiddo. But you never know unless you ask. :grouphug: Edited March 23, 2012 by Sneezyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If you decide to leave her in for the rest of the year, is there any way you can go in and volunteer in her classroom during the reading period? Even just a day or two a week may make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApronMama Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Sounds like the teacher is a major problem. We use the Read Well curriculum at our school, which is more phonics based than many other ps programs out there, and its very successful. But it does require a positive, encouraging teacher. My ds8's teacher is pulling her child into our district just so he can have ReadWell for K. As a third grade teacher, her experience is that the program builds much stronger readers. But I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone. It sounds like she has several issues going on. I would definitely discuss this with the teacher along with the principal and counselor if you suspect she might have ADD, have her tested. Then the school will have extra resources to help her in a more appropriate way. Even if you pull her out, you will have critical information that will help you meet her needs. In the meantime, they might be able to help you come up with a good solution. If you really desire to homeschool and your situation has changed so that you can, you might want to pursue the school resources, and then take a break before starting to homeschool to give her time to enjoy reading again. These situations are hard, I feel for you. Another school might be the answer too. My bil and sil had found a charter school that is really helping their son with reading. He has ADD and the new environment is much more positive for him. He has a teacher who likes him and accommodates his needs, rather than a teacher who doesn't, and that has made a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 It sounds like she has several issues going on. I would definitely discuss this with the teacher along with the principal and counselor if you suspect she might have ADD, have her tested. Then the school will have extra resources to help her in a more appropriate way. Even if you pull her out, you will have critical information that will help you meet her needs. In the meantime, they might be able to help you come up with a good solution. If you really desire to homeschool and your situation has changed so that you can, you might want to pursue the school resources, and then take a break before starting to homeschool to give her time to enjoy reading again. These situations are hard, I feel for you. Another school might be the answer too. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kama Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 My problem is a lot more with the way the read well curriculum is being used than the curriculum itself. They do a rotating reading group situation where it is different teachers at different times and there are 2 teachers she is fine with and 2 she has a problem with. I am still undecided at this point, I am taking my daughter to her doctor on monday to ask about a referral to get her tested, and I am going to observe at her class again monday to make sure the last time I observed was not just an off day. I have helped her practice a lot over the weekend, and she can read the words just fine, as long as they are not not on the read well pages they use at school, as soon as those come out she starts getting anxious, stomach ache, headache, negative attitude "I can't read this" but if I print them on cute little car pages she suddenly can read them. Interestingly it is specifically the practice pages they use only at school she has a problem with, the magazine she does fine with. She also reads random words I point at in books we read together, or printed words in the environment (on food boxes ect). I also found she read much better if I let her play with her clay while she read. Homeschooling is a possibility now, and it is what I am leaning towards at this point. I am still gathering information but pulling her out at spring break is really on my mind right now. I am going to wait to make final decisions until after monday. Thank you for all the support and insight. It really is a difficult situation, and I am sure it is difficult for her teacher too and some of her attitude towards my daughter may be rooted in exasperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 We started homeschooling my first because of really severe food allergies. So he's never been in the school system. But I know many other families do manage to navigate their child's attendance so I could have done so. Now, he has other issues that make it a relief that he's not in school. But again, other families work with the school and I imagine we could as well if we wanted. What you will have to consider going forward is which path you think is best suited for you and your child. Either way, there will be a learning curve as far as meeting her needs. I don't know that one way is better than the other, they are just different paths. Hope you get some useful information on Monday. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicalTwins Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Wow, your daughters feelings & situation could be my son 3 yrs ago. My advice...pull her, we pulled him & his twin about 4 weeks after Christmas break in K, and never looked back. I will say, it has taken quite awhile to fix the problems too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketgirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 i took my daughter out at christmas break, and i still regret that i made her wait so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) My son had a lot of problems with reading stuff (not even that advanced... problems learning the letter sounds and on from there) in K. His teacher had a lot of good qualities but complained to me about him not catching on, implied I didn't spend time with him at home. It was not her fault ----- it was his fault, or if not his fault, then my fault. I did a lot with him over the summer and he did a lot of speech therapy. Starting out at that time he had shame-based avoidant behavior. There is a lot about that at childrenofthecode. It is just about how kids will associate negative feelings with reading and it literally makes them do worse at it. (Or so this website says.... I believe it, though.) Pretty sad for a little 6-year-old!!!!! The other thing, and I think a lot of places are like this, the way the schools work, K is not required like 1st grade is, so there is no provision for pull-out until 1st grade. None of that starts until 1st grade. First grade is going a lot better for my son.... I got him to a decent place over the summer (he started 1st grade in the pull-out group and that was good for him, and I have kept working with him, and he is right at grade level now). He is a social kid and likes going to school. My son actually had objective problems with his reading, but I think a lot of kids are objectively fine but the teacher is being unrealistic. It makes me angry! But ime that is less of an issue in 1st grade when kids are doing different levels and I think my son's teacher at least does very well with keeping all the kids motivated and keeping the groups changing. If I could re-do.... I would have taken him out in K, and worked with him on his own level (and figured out he needed a certain kind of instruction earlier, ha), and then sent him back for 1st grade. I am a lot more clued in now to how hard it is to not be able to do what the other kids can do with academics.... I had no suspicion and my son was considered very smart in pre-school. Just some skills are hard for him that are big K skills. He shines now in math, when there is a focus on more than neatness in writing numbers... now that it is actually doing math. He did do good with math manipulatives -- but in 1st grade his neatness is a non-issue in math, his teacher just likes that he is understanding the concepts. He shines in more areas, too, the "easier" skills are what are harder for him. He didn't have any stomachaches or anything, either. He just came to believe he couldn't do pre-reading stuff b/c he couldn't answer the questions the other kids could answer, and it took a lot to get him to try to do it again. Anyway -- I would go ahead and pull her. I don't think the arbitrary times of the school year mean much to kids that young. Edited March 31, 2012 by Lecka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am speaking from experience. My daughter started asking midway through 3rd grade to homeschool. I pulled her out midway through 4th grade. Now I'm kicking myself in the rear for not pulling her when she first asked, because her love for learning was severely affected in that time frame. :sad: My bright, inquisitive, interested child now has a sullen, whiny attitude about anything resembling learning. On this, I want to say that my ds was an angry young man when we made the decision to homeschool. 4 years later he is the happy boy I used to have. It will take time but your daughter will get there. To the original poster, I would pull your child as soon as possible. The meeting with the teacher you had does not sound promising for your childs success in that classroom. I would also be meeting with the principal to discuss why you received all these "great job" weekly notes and had no knowledge of your daughters failures until you initiated a meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicalTwins Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 On this, I want to say that my ds was an angry young man when we made the decision to homeschool. 4 years later he is the happy boy I used to have. It will take time but your daughter will get there. To the original poster, I would pull your child as soon as possible. The meeting with the teacher you had does not sound promising for your childs success in that classroom. I would also be meeting with the principal to discuss why you received all these "great job" weekly notes and had no knowledge of your daughters failures until you initiated a meeting. :iagree: BTDT with my twins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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