Trayvon Martin...is anyone following??

[Truscifi]

Here is the relevant statute.

 

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

 

As far as I can tell, Zimmerman had no reason to believe an unlawful act had occurred or was about to occur (assuming the boy being black in a white neighborhood is not considered a good enough reason). Despite this, Zimmerman, an armed adult male, pursued an unarmed teenager and initiated a confrontation. At that point, the stand your ground law would have applied to Martin had he been able to defend himself. It did not apply to Zimmerman.

 

Whether the shooting itself was racially motivated or a result of mental instability or something else entirely, I'm not sure. However, being familiar with the history of the area and particularly the Sanford PD, I feel confident in saying the misapplication of the law by the police in this case is racially motivated.

 

 

[katilac]

Heartbreaking. He looks like such a sweet boy in the pictures. Gunned down going to the store to buy candy? I can't even wrap my mind around that.

 

As reckless as the Florida law may be, I don't even see how it applies in this case. From the way local LE refused to release the 911 calls for as long as possible, I think they know very well it doesn't apply.

 

I do hope everyone will consider going to Change.org and signing the online petition.

[Rivka]

And they haven't even suspended Zimmerman's gun permit.

[Catherine]

Agree. Who was defending (or not!) himself??

[LizzyBee]

I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon Martin had used deadly force against Zimmerman that night. What if he "stood his ground," fought back and, let's say, smashed his bottle of tea over Zimmerman's head and killed him? Would the law have protected him? I'm inclined to say no. The lack of action from the police to seek justice for this child's life says to me that the police feel his life was expendable. Or am I reading the law wrong? Could they have charged Zimmerman under the current law?

 

I read an article written by the legislator that wrote the FL Stand Your Ground Act, and he says the law DOES NOT apply to this case. The article described what the law says and why it isn't applicable.

[TXMary2]

I am so distressed by this story that I can barely see straight. Which I suppose betrays a certain naivete on my part, because it's not like a white man slaughtering a black teen because of some completely imagined threat is any kind of novel phenomenon in this country (see, e.g., Emmett Till) , but I am just sick over it nonetheless.

 

The shooter, Zimmerman, is Hispanic. Well, half hispanic, but since half white, half black folks are always referred to as black, shouldn't a half white, half Hispanic guy be a Hispanic? I find the Florida law horrifying and this Zimmerman guy should be locked up or institutionalized. I think he is unstable at best- reports I have read said he has called the police upwards of 80 times in recent history! That is excessive and screams unstable to me.

 

The media and the racial issue is maddening. No one is talking about this guy being hispanic, because in my opinion it is more powerful (and agenda fitting) to be saying a white guy shot a black kid in cold blood. Clearly this man was the agressor, but is it too much to ask for full truth in reporting instead of cashing in on sensationalism?

[Truscifi]

The shooter, Zimmerman, is Hispanic. Well, half hispanic, but since half white, half black folks are always referred to as black, shouldn't a half white, half Hispanic guy be a Hispanic? I find the Florida law horrifying and this Zimmerman guy should be locked up or institutionalized. I think he is unstable at best- reports I have read said he has called the police upwards of 80 times in recent history! That is excessive and screams unstable to me.

 

The media and the racial issue is maddening. No one is talking about this guy being hispanic, because in my opinion it is more powerful (and agenda fitting) to be saying a white guy shot a black kid in cold blood. Clearly this man was the agressor, but is it too much to ask for full truth in reporting instead of cashing in on sensationalism?

 

It has been reported at least locally that Zimmerman is Hispanic.

[Mama_Rana]

The shooter, Zimmerman, is Hispanic. Well, half hispanic, but since half white, half black folks are always referred to as black, shouldn't a half white, half Hispanic guy be a Hispanic? I find the Florida law horrifying and this Zimmerman guy should be locked up or institutionalized. I think he is unstable at best- reports I have read said he has called the police upwards of 80 times in recent history! That is excessive and screams unstable to me.

 

The media and the racial issue is maddening. No one is talking about this guy being hispanic, because in my opinion it is more powerful (and agenda fitting) to be saying a white guy shot a black kid in cold blood. Clearly this man was the agressor, but is it too much to ask for full truth in reporting instead of cashing in on sensationalism?

 

Honestly? I don't think it matters that much. As a friend of mine said, if Zimmerman had shot a white kid, he would not be walking free right now. There would have been a proper investigation, etc. etc. etc. Even if Zimmerman didn't act out of racial prejudice [which, I don't believe, but let's just say if], the legal institution has demonstrated a disgusting level of racism. And that makes this a racial issue.

[Mrs Mungo]

It has been reported at least locally that Zimmerman is Hispanic.

 

I was talking about this among friends today, and everyone seemed to know that the shooter was Hispanic.

[brett_ashley]

he is both white and Hispanic. Hispanic is related to ethnicity, not race. There are both white and black Hispanics, in my view.

[Murmer]

The shooter, Zimmerman, is Hispanic. Well, half hispanic, but since half white, half black folks are always referred to as black, shouldn't a half white, half Hispanic guy be a Hispanic? I find the Florida law horrifying and this Zimmerman guy should be locked up or institutionalized. I think he is unstable at best- reports I have read said he has called the police upwards of 80 times in recent history! That is excessive and screams unstable to me.

 

The media and the racial issue is maddening. No one is talking about this guy being hispanic, because in my opinion it is more powerful (and agenda fitting) to be saying a white guy shot a black kid in cold blood. Clearly this man was the agressor, but is it too much to ask for full truth in reporting instead of cashing in on sensationalism?

 

Hispanic is not a race it is an ethnicity, techniquelly. Hispanic people are the mixture of native peoples and either white or black. So saying he is white Hispanic means he is a white person who is ethnically hispanic...kind of like saying I am white German, I am a white person who is ethnically German. Again this is technical and why you see a race question on many questionnaires followed by the are you Hispanic comment.

[ktgrok]

 

The media and the racial issue is maddening. No one is talking about this guy being hispanic, because in my opinion it is more powerful (and agenda fitting) to be saying a white guy shot a black kid in cold blood. Clearly this man was the agressor, but is it too much to ask for full truth in reporting instead of cashing in on sensationalism?

 

I'm in florida and they mention that he is Hispanic every time the story comes on the radio. I don't watch tv news so I can't speak to that. But it is common knowledge here that he was spanish speaking.

 

I do agree that the shooting may have been more the result of paranoia than race hatred, but think the poor handling of it by Sanford PD was racially motivated. I live very near Sanford, and it is "old Florida' there....still the deep south in some ways.

 

As for him calling 911 that often I had the same reaction you did, but my husband, who has friends in Sanford and grew up in the next town says that the crime is bad enough that a watch patrolman driving around very well could legitamately see that much crime.

[TXMomof4]

 

As for him calling 911 that often I had the same reaction you did, but my husband, who has friends in Sanford and grew up in the next town says that the crime is bad enough that a watch patrolman driving around very well could legitamately see that much crime.

 

Hasn't it been reported that the majority of his calls to 911 were to report suspicious persons who were almost exclusively black men? It seems like there could be the argument that he has shown a pattern of targeting black men for harrassment and that leads to the idea that this was racially motivated. Targeting black men = a hate crime, right? That would take it up to the federal level wouldn't it?

[Catherine]

By all accounts, he sounds like a loose cannon in more than one way. The real issue is the handling of the case by both the local police and the local media. It is ****ing that even though the victim was a minor, and the shooter had a criminal record, the police did NO investigation!! To take the shooter's word for it, basically, without checking further, when an unarmed child is dead, is absolutely beyond the pale.

 

Crazy people exist in every society. We can't always protest ourselves from them. It's when the institutions that supposedly are in place to protect the innocent fail utterly that we have something much bigger to worry about.

[ravinlunachick]

President Obama commented on the case.

 

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said, underscoring how the issue affected him on a personal, and not just a political or legal, level. "I think [Trayvon's parents] are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and we are going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

 

Obama was careful not to get too far ahead of events. He said he was wary of "impairing" an ongoing legal process but praised the fact that federal, state and local law enforcement are now working together on Martin's death.

 

"Obviously, this is a tragedy," he said. "I can only imagine what these parents are going through, and when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together -- federal, state and local -- to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened."

 

He went on.

 

"I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen," said Obama. "And that means we examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident."

[TXBeth]

I don't know whether Trayvon's race is the reason Zimmerman shot him, but I think it is probably the reason that the police just accepted his word that the kid was "acting suspicious." He's a black teenager so of course he was up to no good so of course the shooting was justified. No reason for us to do a drug test or collect any evidence or even try to find out who this young man is. He must just be a thug who was scoping out the neighborhood. :glare:

[LizzyBee]

I posted a link to the petition on my facebook page, and the responses I got only made me more fired up. The only fb friend who seems to care about the case is a white father of black children, including a son. One woman asked what happened to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Well, first the police have to do their job and get the case into a court, that's what! And one of my sisters accused me of spreading hate and casting stones. I felt like responding that Trayvon Martin probably wishes George Zimmerman had not cast the first bullet, but I didn't want to sound flippant. It ticks me off that people don't seem to care about the injustice of this case.

[Mrs Mungo]

Whoops, dp.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know whether Trayvon's race is the reason Zimmerman shot him, but I think it is probably the reason that the police just accepted his word that the kid was "acting suspicious." He's a black teenager so of course he was up to no good so of course the shooting was justified. No reason for us to do a drug test or collect any evidence or even try to find out who this young man is. He must just be a thug who was scoping out the neighborhood. :glare:

 

Go back and read the links that I posted on how the Florida law works. The police/prosecuter reaction to this case has nothing to do with racism, imo.

[Sneezyone]

You'll never know if a statute applies unless you investigate. Collecting and seeking to validate a statement from the sole survivor is not investigating. They started with a hypothesis. They sought evidence to coroborate it. They did not test their theory by gathering ALL of the available evidence and, as it turns out, their original theory has not held up well under scrutiny. The job of the police (in the words of law and order's intro) is not to prosecute (i.e. determine whether the law applies). Their job is to observe, intercede, record and investigate. They failed to do that. The question is why.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Sneezyone
Darn typos!

[LizzyBee]

Go back and read the links that I posted on how the Florida law works. The police/prosecuter reaction to this case has nothing to do with racism, imo.

 

After reading this analysis of the Stand Your Ground law by the legislator who wrote it, I am inclined to think that racism may play a part in the failure to prosecute. But I am no expert and sometimes the way laws are applied just doesn't seem logical. My dh was once hit by a drunk driver who wrote down his name and work address, then decided to flee the scene because he was an illegal immigrant. The police said they couldn't arrest him because it would be a violation of his civil rights. :confused:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/21/trayvon-martins-alleged-attacker-not-covered-under-law-wrote/

[Mrs Mungo]

After reading this analysis of the Stand Your Ground law by the legislator who wrote it, I am inclined to think that racism may play a part in the failure to prosecute.

 

Did you read the CNN links that I posted on the number of times this statute has come into play? Again, my husband's best friend (military veteran, white, a family man) was murdered and nothing happened to his killer due to this statute.

[Sneezyone]

After reading this analysis of the Stand Your Ground law by the legislator who wrote it, I am inclined to think that racism may play a part in the failure to prosecute. But I am no expert and sometimes the way laws are applied just doesn't seem logical. My dh was once hit by a drunk driver who wrote down his name and work address, then decided to flee the scene because he was an illegal immigrant. The police said they couldn't arrest him because it would be a violation of his civil rights. :confused:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/21/trayvon-martins-alleged-attacker-not-covered-under-law-wrote/

 

This is one of my personal pet peeves about law enforcement. I may be a law school dropout but I do not understand why law enforcement officers think it's OK to substitute their judgment for that of a prosecuting attorney, judge or jury. The training they get, while good, is the equivalent of community college-level study. They are not well versed in all the sources of relevant law or the evolution of the law. They are, for the most part, technicians. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. But when new precedent is set, as happens all the time, they get the Cliff's Notes version, twaddle. I think citizens forget/ignore this at their peril. Police officers are not infallible and a group of similarly trained individuals is definitely not infallible.

[LizzyBee]

Did you read the CNN links that I posted on the number of times this statute has come into play? Again, my husband's best friend (military veteran, white, a family man) was murdered and nothing happened to his killer due to this statute.

 

I am sorry for your family's loss. :grouphug:

 

My point was that sometimes laws are misinterpreted and misapplied. The police are citing this law as the reason they can't make an arrest; that doesn't necessarily mean they are interpreting the law correctly, whether the reason is racism or ignorance.

[Mrs Mungo]

I am sorry for your family's loss. :grouphug:

 

My point was that sometimes laws are misinterpreted and misapplied. The police are citing this law as the reason they can't make an arrest; that doesn't necessarily mean they are interpreting the law correctly, whether the reason is racism or ignorance.

 

There was a case in which 2 drug dealers got in a gun fight. They killed a 15 year old bystander. A judge threw the case out of court, citing "stand your ground." The police are not going to waste resources on cases they know will be thrown out.

[Sneezyone]

There was a case in which 2 drug dealers got in a gun fight. They killed a 15 year old bystander. A judge threw the case out of court, citing "stand your ground." The police are not going to waste resources on cases they know will be thrown out.

 

And this is why we have appellate courts. There was also the case where the man killed another man on the tennis courts. That man is facing trial despite the SYG claim. The limits of NEW laws must be tested. That's not the role of police.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Sneezyone

[love2read]

I was just catching up on this (we don't have cable) and came upon this video http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 which paints a very different picture than some of the other reports. Maybe this has already been discussed.

[usetoschool]

I was just catching up on this (we don't have cable) and came upon this video http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 which paints a very different picture than some of the other reports. Maybe this has already been discussed.

 

details from the above story: "But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

 

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

 

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

 

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

 

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

 

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

 

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

 

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting."

 

This is the only story from this angle that I have seen...anyone know anything more about this twist; whether it is some effort to scoop other stations, if this is "National Enquirer" style journalism, or if there are some other stories going around like this?

[Audrey]

 

This is the only story from this angle that I have seen...anyone know anything more about this twist; whether it is some effort to scoop other stations, if this is "National Enquirer" style journalism, or if there are some other stories going around like this?

 

Fox is pretty much the National Enquirer of television.

[Mrs Mungo]

Even if the story of the anonymous witness is true, that would not cover Zimmerman in states with a "duty to retreat" clause. He never should have been following the boy in the first place. The intent of Neighborhood Watch is not vigilante justice.

[mom2scouts]

Fox is pretty much the National Enquirer of television.

 

This story is now on ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-howls-911-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640

[ma23peas]

Fox is pretty much the National Enquirer of television.

 

I do not agree...I believe Foxnews is as NE as CNN is Star...but somewhere between both lies the truth...

 

I am never a fan of any youth being killed. But, we must leave it to the justice system not our own piecing together to find whether it was self defense or murder. I do not like that any side is trying to push for the justice system to work in any way other than it should (meaning pushing for an arrest). I will say something did not sit right as to why this youth was in this neighborhood...why he was on a 10 day suspension from school...why his parents did not report him missing for 3 days? Something just does not sit right.

[Mrs Mungo]

For the record, I don't think Florida can prosecute Zimmerman. I think Florida needs to change its crummy, murderer-protecting law and add a duty to retreat clause.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

For the record, I don't think Florida can prosecute Zimmerman. I think Florida needs to change its crummy, murderer-protecting law and add a duty to retreat clause.

 

IF it is true Zimmerman was in the ground with Martin on top of him assaulting him (and I am not certain that is really the case), then Zimmerman would have a chance at claiming self defense in most jurisdictions. The fact that he followed Martin does not preclude a self defense claim if the situation changes.

I have no issue with tweaking the "stand your ground" laws if needed, but I do believe the issue is over blown greatly.

[Joker]

I do not agree...I believe Foxnews is as NE as CNN is Star...but somewhere between both lies the truth...

 

I am never a fan of any youth being killed. But, we must leave it to the justice system not our own piecing together to find whether it was self defense or murder. I do not like that any side is trying to push for the justice system to work in any way other than it should (meaning pushing for an arrest). I will say something did not sit right as to why this youth was in this neighborhood...why he was on a 10 day suspension from school...why his parents did not report him missing for 3 days? Something just does not sit right.

 

The reports I've read said he was staying with his father, who lived in that neighborhood. I've also read he was suspended for five days, not ten, and it was for tardiness.

 

ETA: I've also read reports that his family did report him missing. That's one of the reasons many are so upset with the police. Trayvon sat in the morgue for three days unidentified and it appears there were people looking for him. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've been reading and watching all of this for weeks here in FL and I'm just so stinking angry that maybe I'm missing something. Also, didn't the police have his cell phone? I've read they knew he was talking to someone at the time of the shooting but didn't follow up. It was the girl who had to come forward. Most of what I've read says the police just did a very poor job after this young man was shot.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Horton

[ChristineW]

Most recent updates here: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10868250-police-report-details-alleged-attack-on-zimmerman

 

This is bad on so many levels.

[Negin]

[Lisbeth]

Heartbreaking. He looks like such a sweet boy in the pictures. Gunned down going to the store to buy candy? I can't even wrap my mind around that.

 

As reckless as the Florida law may be, I don't even see how it applies in this case. From the way local LE refused to release the 911 calls for as long as possible, I think they know very well it doesn't apply.

 

I do hope everyone will consider going to Change.org and signing the online petition.

 

Speaking of that, why are they showing a younger picture of Trayvon (3 years old, when he was 14) instead of a current picture at 17? The whole media blitz has been full of oddities.

[Pink Fairy]

Most recent updates here: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10868250-police-report-details-alleged-attack-on-zimmerman

 

This is bad on so many levels.

 

From your link:

 

Zimmerman's account emerged for the first time Monday in a report by The Orlando Sentinel. Quoting unidentified "law enforcement authorities," the Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police that Trayvon Martin knocked him down with a single punch and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times before the shooting — an account that police said witnesses have corroborated.

Zimmerman said he was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from behind, according to the Sentinel's report, which Sanford police confirmed Monday afternoon.

The two exchanged words before Martin decked him with a punch to the nose and began beating him, Zimmerman told police. He said he then shot Martin in self-defense.

Witnesses said they heard someone cry out in distress, some of them telling NBC News and other news organizations that it was Martin. But police sources told the Sentinel their evidence indicated it was Zimmerman.

Dateline NBC interviews woman who saw aftermath

One witness told police he saw Martin pounding Zimmerman on the ground. This witness was certain it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, the Sentinel reported.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and had a swollen lip and bloody lacerations to the back of his head, the newspaper reported. Police said Zimmerman wasn't badly injured and didn't seek treatment until the next day.

ABC News reported separately that Zimmerman told police that Martin also tried to take his gun.

 

 

If the above turns out to be true, does that change anyone's opinion of what happened? I'm curious.

[texascamps]

I'm posting because I'm surprised by the postings, it seems that everyone is getting their news from the same place and its days old.

 

A few semi-facts (because you have to be wary) that I've picked up by avoiding just CNN or just Fox.

 

 

What I have found in print and on the TV from Florida sources.

 

The mother admitted Trayvon was suspended for marijuana evidence in his backpack. That was why he was spending time with his father.

 

The photos the media are showing of Trayvon are when he was as young as ten. It appears that newer photos show him having a number of gold teeth and a gang tattoo? This may be why news agencies are showing older photos as to not cause undo discrimination based on his appearance. They are reporting that he was as tall as 6'2 and 200 lbs. A big man and a good football player.

 

Zimmerman was much shorter.

 

There are also photos of Trayvon flashing gang signs, the finger and other things that I can't believe, but don't want to go see for myself. I can't even post his twitter handle here.

 

Zimmerman had a broken nose and injury to the back of his head where he says Trayvon was beating it against the ground or pavement. This goes along with what the witness saw.

 

Spike Lee is repeatedly tweeting Zimmerman's address for those that want to seek revenge. I see a possible lawsuit here for the Zimmerman family.

 

There are reports that Trayvon was a bully at school. Prone to pick fights. Those kids may be called as witnesses.

 

A close black friend of Zimmerman's is saying that this is a media circus and that Zimmerman is being railroaded and that Zim and his wife tutor black children. (how and to what extent is unknown)

 

Zimmerman had called police 46 +- times for suspicious activity. I don't see how this shows him as a vigilante. He didn't handle 46 suspicious people, he handed over 46 people to the police.

 

There are reports of other 911 calls concerning this incident. We won't know what is in them until they are made public. Hopefully, they will shed more light for either side.

 

 

Another witness came forward today on the side of Trayvon, though apparently, she did not report it to the police. Still unclear.

 

So, though I was dumbfounded by this story a few days ago, I knew to wait for the facts to come out. I am not one to assume that the police are inept and we all have to be a little suspicious when the media reports the death of a 17 year old yet shows a photo of a little boy. They were trying to force the story in their direction.

 

I believe it originally went to a Grand Jury. A Grand Jury is made up of people who are asking the same questions as you and me.

 

There's a bounty on Zimmerman's head by the Black Panther Party. We'll see if this is pursued by the FBI or DOJ.

 

The phone conversation of the girlfriend could possibly be retrieved if it has not been lost. I am under the understanding that phone calls are recorded and saved for quality assurance purposes. However, they are only held for a few hours, so it may already be gone.

 

I can see how Trayvon thinks he's being stalked by someone. Zimmerman thinks of him as suspicious. They both become alarmed. Perhaps words are spoken. There's a fight. Zimmerman is out manned, perhaps not used to street fighting which they say Trayvon was. Trayvon probably didn't intend to kill Zimmerman he was just tougher, Zimmerman didn't know he wasn't going to be killed, and used the only weapon he could.

 

I can see many scenarios playing out here. All of them misunderstandings and not knowing what was going through the other guy's head. All of them tragic.

 

 

Oh, by the way, Fox News, the actual News shows and not the Opinion shows (like O'reilly and Hannity) has consistently been shown to be the most "fair and balanced" news source by many if not all independent, non partisan media research group. The actual news shows, I repeat, the news shows.

 

 

Go to CNN right now and compare what they are reporting to what other news sources are reporting. They are a full day or so behind. Too bad, I used to enjoy CNN.

 

 

Does anyone remember "Bonfire of the Vanities?" The book, not the movie. The book has an angle very much like this story.

 

I think folks need to take a deep breath and step away from the TV and not demonize any side since we are all dealing with half the facts from both sides.

[Lovin Learnin]

I'm posting because I'm surprised by the postings, it seems that everyone is getting their news from the same place and its days old.

 

A few semi-facts (because you have to be wary) that I've picked up by avoiding just CNN or just Fox.

 

 

What I have found in print and on the TV from Florida sources.

 

The mother admitted Trayvon was suspended for marijuana evidence in his backpack. That was why he was spending time with his father.

 

The photos the media are showing of Trayvon are when he was as young as ten. It appears that newer photos show him having a number of gold teeth and a gang tattoo? This may be why news agencies are showing older photos as to not cause undo discrimination based on his appearance. They are reporting that he was as tall as 6'2 and 200 lbs. A big man and a good football player.

 

Zimmerman was much shorter.

 

There are also photos of Trayvon flashing gang signs, the finger and other things that I can't believe, but don't want to go see for myself. I can't even post his twitter handle here.

 

Zimmerman had a broken nose and injury to the back of his head where he says Trayvon was beating it against the ground or pavement. This goes along with what the witness saw.

 

Spike Lee is repeatedly tweeting Zimmerman's address for those that want to seek revenge. I see a possible lawsuit here for the Zimmerman family.

 

There are reports that Trayvon was a bully at school. Prone to pick fights. Those kids may be called as witnesses.

 

A close black friend of Zimmerman's is saying that this is a media circus and that Zimmerman is being railroaded and that Zim and his wife tutor black children. (how and to what extent is unknown)

 

Zimmerman had called police 46 +- times for suspicious activity. I don't see how this shows him as a vigilante. He didn't handle 46 suspicious people, he handed over 46 people to the police.

 

There are reports of other 911 calls concerning this incident. We won't know what is in them until they are made public. Hopefully, they will shed more light for either side.

 

 

Another witness came forward today on the side of Trayvon, though apparently, she did not report it to the police. Still unclear.

 

So, though I was dumbfounded by this story a few days ago, I knew to wait for the facts to come out. I am not one to assume that the police are inept and we all have to be a little suspicious when the media reports the death of a 17 year old yet shows a photo of a little boy. They were trying to force the story in their direction.

 

I believe it originally went to a Grand Jury. A Grand Jury is made up of people who are asking the same questions as you and me.

 

There's a bounty on Zimmerman's head by the Black Panther Party. We'll see if this is pursued by the FBI or DOJ.

 

The phone conversation of the girlfriend could possibly be retrieved if it has not been lost. I am under the understanding that phone calls are recorded and saved for quality assurance purposes. However, they are only held for a few hours, so it may already be gone.

 

I can see how Trayvon thinks he's being stalked by someone. Zimmerman thinks of him as suspicious. They both become alarmed. Perhaps words are spoken. There's a fight. Zimmerman is out manned, perhaps not used to street fighting which they say Trayvon was. Trayvon probably didn't intend to kill Zimmerman he was just tougher, Zimmerman didn't know he wasn't going to be killed, and used the only weapon he could.

 

I can see many scenarios playing out here. All of them misunderstandings and not knowing what was going through the other guy's head. All of them tragic.

 

 

Oh, by the way, Fox News, the actual News shows and not the Opinion shows (like O'reilly and Hannity) has consistently been shown to be the most "fair and balanced" news source by many if not all independent, non partisan media research group. The actual news shows, I repeat, the news shows.

 

 

Go to CNN right now and compare what they are reporting to what other news sources are reporting. They are a full day or so behind. Too bad, I used to enjoy CNN.

 

 

Does anyone remember "Bonfire of the Vanities?" The book, not the movie. The book has an angle very much like this story.

 

I think folks need to take a deep breath and step away from the TV and not demonize any side since we are all dealing with half the facts from both sides.

 

I don't see how anything in Trayvon's character would have anything to do with what happened that night. He was STALKED. By a man who was told by the police to leave him alone and not follow him. Let's forget what you think you know about either of these men. If you were being stalked by someone do you think it is ok to defend yourself? What should Trayvon have done? In my opinion it really doesn't matter if he was a gang member or not (and I personally believe this is part of a smear campaign). His character was not the reason Zimmerman followed him because he would not have known that. All he saw was a young, black man in a hoodie. THAT is why he followed him.

 

Again I ask, what is the appropriate response when you're heading home and someone is stalking you with a weapon?

[Halcyon]

.

 

 

Oh, by the way, Fox News, the actual News shows and not the Opinion shows (like O'reilly and Hannity) has consistently been shown to be the most "fair and balanced" news source by many if not all independent, non partisan media research group. The actual news shows, I repeat, the news shows.

 

 

 

 

 

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:I needed a laugh tonight!

[clarkacademy]

I saw some pictures of this kid and the little innocent school boy pic online is not what he was. He is not someone I would have not wanted to meet up with in a dark alley. If it had been a white boy this would not be news. If it had been a black man this would not be news. I don't care what color ou are if you attack someone you had better be prepared they may have a gun.

 

This "child" has been a bit wild in my opinion and not the sweet little boy who got shot over a hoodie or his color. He got shot because he attacked someone and there are witnesses that prove it. I will never be a fan of a kid getting killed but then again what was this guy suppose to do?

 

Was he suppose to lie there and just take it? That man had a wife a family was he suppose to take it? Was the family of the boy going to pay his doc bills? Where they gonna foot the bill for his funeral and take care of his family for the rest of their life? This man was being beat he defended his self what would any of you have done?

[jennynd]

zimmerman had no right to follow the kid. especially with a gun. He is not part of the watchman and the kid didn't do anything wrong.

Even if the kid end up trying to grab the gun, IMO, the kid was trying to self defense. And tzimmerman took the opportunity to shoot him

[Lovin Learnin]

Was he suppose to lie there and just take it? That man had a wife a family was he suppose to take it? Was the family of the boy going to pay his doc bills? Where they gonna foot the bill for his funeral and take care of his family for the rest of their life? This man was being beat he defended his self what would any of you have done?

 

I see the smear campaign is working.

 

That man (Zimmerman) should not have been there in the first place. Had he not been so suspicious, or if he had simply taken the advise of the dispatcher, he would never have been near this kid. Besides, is it your position that gang members are fair game for hunting when they're out buying snacks?

[jennynd]

I saw some pictures of this kid and the little innocent school boy pic online is not what he was. He is not someone I would have not wanted to meet up with in a dark alley. If it had been a white boy this would not be news. If it had been a black man this would not be news. I don't care what color ou are if you attack someone you had better be prepared they may have a gun.

 

This "child" has been a bit wild in my opinion and not the sweet little boy who got shot over a hoodie or his color. He got shot because he attacked someone and there are witnesses that prove it. I will never be a fan of a kid getting killed but then again what was this guy suppose to do?

 

Was he suppose to lie there and just take it? That man had a wife a family was he suppose to take it? Was the family of the boy going to pay his doc bills? Where they gonna foot the bill for his funeral and take care of his family for the rest of their life? This man was being beat he defended his self what would any of you have done?

 

Wow,,,,, Zimmerman was the ONE followed the kid with a gun So the kid just supposed to lie there and just take it?? The boy has family also. And U know the boy enough to make a comment or simply because he is a black and smoke pot so automatically he deserved to die?:confused:

[Joker]

Anyone have links for those updated photos? I've seen the ones with gold teeth and gang signs, but I've also read they are not actually pictures of Trayvon Martin.

 

I've also read today about the suspensions, but wonder why they were never a police matter. The family was never told about the school finding jewelry (if that's true) and the school admits they never told the family.:001_huh: And if he was suspended for marijuana, why weren't the police involved?

 

I wanted to add that I don't really think any of the above matters. Zimmerman willfully pursued Trayvon even after dispatch told him not to. There would have been nothing to defend himself against had he just waited the few minutes on the real police.

[Trish]

I don't see how anything in Trayvon's character would have anything to do with what happened that night. He was STALKED. By a man who was told by the police to leave him alone and not follow him. Let's forget what you think you know about either of these men. If you were being stalked by someone do you think it is ok to defend yourself? What should Trayvon have done? In my opinion it really doesn't matter if he was a gang member or not (and I personally believe this is part of a smear campaign). His character was not the reason Zimmerman followed him because he would not have known that. All he saw was a young, black man in a hoodie. THAT is why he followed him.

 

Again I ask, what is the appropriate response when you're heading home and someone is stalking you with a weapon?

 

I guess I wouldn't feel qualified to do what the Grand Jury is supposed to be doing. However, by presenting such an unbalanced portrait the media is certainly fanning the flames of racial hatred. (good for ratings, I know!) At first I thought he was a young teen shot in the back while fleeing a crazy white guy with a gun. I was later shocked to learn he was an older teen who had broken the nose of the hispanic guy and bloodied the back of his head.

[Whereneverever]

I guess I wouldn't feel qualified to do what the Grand Jury is supposed to be doing. However, by presenting such an unbalanced portrait the media is certainly fanning the flemes of racial hatred. (good for ratings, I know!) At first I thought he was a young teen shot in the back while fleeing a crazy white guy with a gun. I was later shocked to learn he was an older teen who had broken the nose of the hispanic guy and bloodied the back of his head.

 

:iagree: I'm not sure what the whole story is, but it's not what I first thought.

[Lovin Learnin]

I guess I wouldn't feel qualified to do what the Grand Jury is supposed to be doing. However, by presenting such an unbalanced portrait the media is certainly fanning the flames of racial hatred. (good for ratings, I know!) At first I thought he was a young teen shot in the back while fleeing a crazy white guy with a gun. I was later shocked to learn he was an older teen who had broken the nose of the hispanic guy and bloodied the back of his head.

 

So far nobody has the full story, but the recorded police tapes are most telling, imo. The story begins with Zimmerman calling to report a suspicious man walking in the neighborhood. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following this man and he said yes. He was then told not to. Enough said. Had he left him alone the altercation never would have occurred.