How to choose which level of WRTR?

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[Hunter]

Choosing a dictionary is very hard! I don't EXACTLY like ANY of them. Sigh!

 

I had to figure out what my #1 priority was, and make sure it included that. And my priority it seems is a rare one. I want easy to read pronunciations for every word, #2 very clearly labeled parts of speech, and #3 a concise definition that is easy to memorize. I would like word origin information, but had to sacrifice that.

 

And I want a compatible 2 book set of a larger volume for home, and a mini volume that is portable.

 

It is hard to use tools that don't do the job we picked them to do, and so often I find myself having to do that.

 

I own a LOT of dictionaries! :-) Just none were right to teach my students to use on their own, to look up pronunciation and part of speech :-( And I think they are afraid of them and rusty on alphabetical order skills.

 

I'm expecting the concise large print I picked to sometimes not have needed words :-( But it will suffice as an uncluttered resource to TEACH dictionary SKILLS. Once those skills have been mastered, most students should be able to successfully limp through using the college version. Or at least I hope :-0

[Guest]

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Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest

[Hunter]

I saw the Merriam Webster Advanced Learner's today and got so excited, until I saw that it uses the international phonetic alphabet for pronunciation. Hmm...now that I am looking at the link, I don't know if it was the advanced or essential.

 

But it gives sample questions for every sentence. Something that Spalding expects us to do, but doesn't supply the information.

 

EDIT: It was the advanced. The advanced has 2 color definitions, with the sample sentences in blue.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Hunter

[Guest]

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[Hunter]

Sorry, you have no idea how I obsess over dictionaries. It is ridiculous that it is this hard.

[CourtneySue]

:lol:

 

 

Yabbut you can easily do just the spelling lessons, or the spelling and reading lessons, and do something else for writing. Primarily, using something else for spelling or phonics/reading while doing Spalding is a bad idea.

 

FTR, I love the fifth edition and do NOT think it makes Spalding more difficult to figure out. I have to say, though, that I miss Chapter 6 from previous editions, and have started to suggest using the 5th edition as the manual, and chapter 6 of the fourth edition instead of the teacher's guide (the manual is less expensive than a teacher guide, so it's more economical :) ).

 

Ellie,

 

I'm really curious what is in Chapter 6 that is so invaluable? I'm thinking about picking it up, if needed. They seem pretty easy to find used for not much $$.

 

I feel like I have come full circle--I started out planning to do WRTR, then got caught up in the AAS bandwagon, then the PR bandwagon. I've been frustrated with the DVD aspect, and found myself wishing Mrs. Beers had just written an open and go manual for her program. I started perusing my WRTR manual (that I just couldn't give up for some reason) only to realize this is the manual!!! The thing you always say. And I can't figure out why I thought it was so confusing before.

 

The spelling part seems simple enough. Here are a few questions I have: Have you always waited until third grade (as the manual states to do) to have the kids start making "rule pages"? Also, are there any other tips I should know?

 

Thanks!!!!

[didadeewiththree]

Ellie,

 

I'm really curious what is in Chapter 6 that is so invaluable? I'm thinking about picking it up, if needed. They seem pretty easy to find used for not much $$.

 

I feel like I have come full circle--I started out planning to do WRTR, then got caught up in the AAS bandwagon, then the PR bandwagon. I've been frustrated with the DVD aspect, and found myself wishing Mrs. Beers had just written an open and go manual for her program. I started perusing my WRTR manual (that I just couldn't give up for some reason) only to realize this is the manual!!! The thing you always say. And I can't figure out why I thought it was so confusing before.

 

The spelling part seems simple enough. Here are a few questions I have: Have you always waited until third grade (as the manual states to do) to have the kids start making "rule pages"? Also, are there any other tips I should know?

 

Thanks!!!!

 

I feel like I could have written your post. Ive been on the Phonics Road bandwagon, mixed in with WRTR, along with the help of a teacher manual, which wasnt very helpful, and now lately have had thought of jumping on the Logic of English bandwagon. I seen it at the conference though, and thought, "That is right in the WRTR!" I just couldnt buy what I already have. So how can I plan my child's day out? How do I know where to flip to in the manual?

[Hunter]

WRTR has the entire Ayer's list with an alphabetical index. LOE uses different spelling rules and markings, so you won't be able to use the Spalding Ayer's list that acts as a spelling dictionary. That is what has kept me from jumping on the LOE bandwagon. No spelling dictionary to reference when I am struggling with a certain word, in my writing or in one of my students'.

 

LOE makes a great start and leaves you stranded. And the D'Nealian font is NOT the Spalding font!

[chepyl]

Hunter, just curious, were you looking at the FedEx home delivery rates or did you press the drop down list to look at the Priority Mail rates? Also, how bad are the ones in the 4th edition that you have? If only a few look bad, could you scan them and repair them with Paint?

 

You could also just get some 3x5 index card and copy them from the book by hand. before we got a copy machine that was my plan :)

[Hunter]

You could also just get some 3x5 index card and copy them from the book by hand. before we got a copy machine that was my plan :)

 

The good thing about WRTR is at least the information is there to copy. Some of the other programs make it so you HAVE to buy the cards to have the information.

 

I have some stained unlaminated cards from either SWR or TRH, that are working out okay, for now, except they have the SWR cursive font on them. I have to hide that side from my student so she doesn't get confused.

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[Ellie]

Ellie,

 

I'm really curious what is in Chapter 6 that is so invaluable? I'm thinking about picking it up, if needed. They seem pretty easy to find used for not much $$.

 

Chapter 6 gives, in a nutshell, how to do the reading lesson and why Spalding uses good books instead of vocabulary conrollted readers:

Books that have won the Newbery Award, or are good enough to win it, should be used for reaing lessons. For too long children have been exposed to readers with highly controlled vocabularies, a practice that for many pupils is fatal to good writing and to interest in reading. Some beginning readers now are based on teaching phonics. Some of the worst are by linguists who offer the beginner sentences containing a repetition of the short sound of the letter a, for example, or, for the purpose of teaching, a sound of "ow," etc. Such teaching belongs in the spelling lessons. From the begining reading should be centered on the through expressed by the author. Writing Road to Reading, by Romalda Spalding, 4th edition, p. 254

 

It gives instruction on whole-class teaching; how many words to dictate each week and what the process is; breaks it down by grade level; has quotes from a couple of teachers on what they did in their classes; and more.

 

I feel like I have come full circle--I started out planning to do WRTR, then got caught up in the AAS bandwagon, then the PR bandwagon. I've been frustrated with the DVD aspect, and found myself wishing Mrs. Beers had just written an open and go manual for her program. I started perusing my WRTR manual (that I just couldn't give up for some reason) only to realize this is the manual!!! The thing you always say. And I can't figure out why I thought it was so confusing before.

 

:D

 

The spelling part seems simple enough. Here are a few questions I have: Have you always waited until third grade (as the manual states to do) to have the kids start making "rule pages"?

Yes. always. Before then I made charts of the rules pages, and we referred to them when appropriate.

 

Also, are there any other tips I should know?

 

Read the manual cover to cover, at first just to *learn* what Spalding is and why it works, and after that to learn *how to do it.*

 

Thanks!!!!

YW. :)

 

Here are the "crutches" I learned for the phonograms:

 

c: When you teach it, you say "/k/ /s/ C followed by e, i, or y always says /s/." Yes, that whole phrase, in one breath.

 

g: /g/ /j/ G followed by e, i, or y may say /j/.

 

When teaching the ers, you say "/er/of her, /er/ of first, /er/ of nurse, wor of works, /er/ of early. *See my note about drilling.

 

ay: /A/ (second sound of a. You just say the one sound)

ai: "/A/ never used at the end of a word."*

 

oy: /oy/

oi: /oy/ never used at the end of a word.*

 

ew: [both sounds]

ui: [both sounds] never used at the end of a word*

 

eigh: /A/ the four-letter*

 

igh: /I/ the three letter (You don't need a crutch with this, because it's the only phonogram which has only one sound--/I/. The single vowel i has two sounds, ei and ie both have other sounds.)

 

ci: /sh/ of facial

 

ti: /sh/ of nation (we don't use a crutch for sh; si has two sounds, so it wouldn't be confused with the sh, ci, or ti)

 

*When you drill the phonograms by dictating, you say the sound and teach the dc to ask "which one?" For example, if you say "/er/", the dc should ask you which one, and then you'd say, "/er/ of early." If you say /A/, they should ask which one, and you'd say, "/A/ never used at the end of a word," and they'd write "ai."

 

Oh, and we say "second sound of [a vowel]" instead of "long A," because it is in keeping with the marking system, e.g., when s says /z/, you write a superscript 2 to indicate that it is prounounced with its second sound.

 

I think that's it...If not, addendum to follow. :D

 

Addendum #1: One reason you read every.single.page, cover to cover, is that some of the directions for what to do next are in the Extended Ayres List itself. The manual is arranged on a need-to-know basis, which is why "Teaching in the Different Grades" is Chapter 6 and not Chapter 1 :-)

Edited March 25, 2012 by Ellie

[CourtneySue]

Thank you for the tips.

 

At what point do you start making the Rule Pages yourself? I know it says that "each rule is taught prior to dictation of the word to which it applies." So, if you see a rule is coming up, did you make an applicable rule page for it at that point? Before the word was dictated?

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions. I really do appreciate your help!

[Ellie]

I just make posters ahead of time and have them ready, and I put them up at the point when older dc would be writing them in their spelling notebooks.

[Hunter]

Making cards would require getting off the 3 day #1.00 Scholastic sale that claims to be the biggest ever. That's not going to happen today, but I needed to teach today anyway. I know I'll be so glad once I make them.

 

Ellie THANK you for that. I'll read it better after I spend some more time at Scholastic :-) http://teacherexpress.scholastic.com/dollardeals?&product_type=269&view=all&eml=TXP/e/20120325///DollarDeals//shopnow/NoLinks/ACQ/////&ym_MID=1406635&ym_rid=18761690

[Guest]

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Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest

[allymom]

Ellie, thank you! :hurray:I've made a dent in ed. 5 of my WRTR book. I feel like I'm starting to grasp the method and it makes so much sense. I can't even tell you how many times I've said to my husband "hey, there is a reason for....I always thought the English language was just messed up" or "I always told the girls that was just a sightword/exception." LOL! I'm excited to start it with them, but I'm going to need the next month or two to read both editions through so I can fully grasp the method.

 

So for the notebooks...I have a 7.5 yr. old who is technically a 1st grader this year because she has her birthday in early November, but by some states standards she would be in 3rd grade next year. By my standards and most states she'll be an older 2nd grader next year. I'm toying with having her make a rules notebook along with her older sister. Do you think she'd be too young this coming summer?

 

BTW, I also totally understand why you said it's not something I can just do over the summer and I do foresee us using this program for a long time.

 

And thank you, Hunter, for convincing me not to go looking too much further into LOE. ;D

[Hunter]

I just make posters ahead of time and have them ready, and I put them up at the point when older dc would be writing them in their spelling notebooks.

 

Ahh...Posters. Another major aha moment. I don't have a blackboard and my student and I are struggling with my just speaking and writing on a little piece of paper as we go. Posters will fix this.

 

Ellie, I have no words to express my gratitude to you for your steady encouragement and example and ideas. This IS so simple, but without example, the simple is SO hard to think up on our own.

 

Marie, every time I take a Spalding break I learn something new from the alternative curriculum and I also come back more determined that ever. Enjoy your break and learn everything you can. Some of us take crooked paths, and that is just the way we learn and do best.

[CourtneySue]

I just make posters ahead of time and have them ready, and I put them up at the point when older dc would be writing them in their spelling notebooks.

 

So you don't put them up before that? So I shouldn't make "Rule Pages" for my first grader? Does he just not need them yet?

 

Thanks again.

[Guest]

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Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest

[Hunter]

:001_huh: I'm feeling a little confused. Marie, I was sending full support, even if it didn't sound like it :001_smile: I think maybe I am using some terms differently than you are, and I have no idea exactly what OPGTR is, or what the best way to deal with an early reader in general is, never mind your adorable little one. I'm just offering support for your always good and timely choices. Good luck! :-) And keep us posted on how it goes.

[Ellie]

So you don't put them up before that? So I shouldn't make "Rule Pages" for my first grader? Does he just not need them yet?

 

Thanks again.

Yes, you make Rule Page posters for children who are younger than 8yo/3rd grade, and put them up as they are needed. Children 8yo/3rd grade and older write them into their spelling notebooks each year.

[Ellie]

Ahh...Posters. Another major aha moment. I don't have a blackboard and my student and I are struggling with my just speaking and writing on a little piece of paper as we go. Posters will fix this.

 

Ellie, I have no words to express my gratitude to you for your steady encouragement and example and ideas. This IS so simple, but without example, the simple is SO hard to think up on our own.

 

:)

 

It is my pleasure to share what I know with you. :)

[Ellie]

Ellie, thank you! :hurray:I've made a dent in ed. 5 of my WRTR book. I feel like I'm starting to grasp the method and it makes so much sense. I can't even tell you how many times I've said to my husband "hey, there is a reason for....I always thought the English language was just messed up" or "I always told the girls that was just a sightword/exception." LOL! I'm excited to start it with them, but I'm going to need the next month or two to read both editions through so I can fully grasp the method.

I've often said the very same thing. Reading through the manual is like a lightbulb factory. :lol:

 

So for the notebooks...I have a 7.5 yr. old who is technically a 1st grader this year because she has her birthday in early November, but by some states standards she would be in 3rd grade next year. By my standards and most states she'll be an older 2nd grader next year. I'm toying with having her make a rules notebook along with her older sister. Do you think she'd be too young this coming summer?

 

She would do a spelling notebook, including rule pages. When Mrs. Spalding talks about "third graders," she's thinking of children who are about the same age as your dd.

 

BTW, I also totally understand why you said it's not something I can just do over the summer and I do foresee us using this program for a long time.

Told you so. :D

[CourtneySue]

Yes, you make Rule Page posters for children who are younger than 8yo/3rd grade, and put them up as they are needed. Children 8yo/3rd grade and older write them into their spelling notebooks each year.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Interestingly enough, my son made a few of the "Rule Pages" with Phonics Road 1, but she calls them "Building Codes." But, they are pretty much identical. I'm telling you, this is how much the two programs are alike.

 

That is why I think anyone switching from PR to WRTR should be able to do so with ease.

 

Thanks again!!

[Ellie]

Thank you so much!

YW :)

 

Interestingly enough, my son made a few of the "Rule Pages" with Phonics Road 1, but she calls them "Building Codes." But, they are pretty much identical. I'm telling you, this is how much the two programs are alike.

That would be because Barbara Beers was originally a Spalding teacher.

 

That is why I think anyone switching from PR to WRTR should be able to do so with ease.

Yup, although it would be switching from PR to Spalding, not to WRTR. Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. :D

 

Thanks again!!

YW again. :D

[wehave8]

Yup, although it would be switching from PR to Spalding, not to WRTR. Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. :D

 

 

I've wondered.... Would it be--

Beers is the method; PR is the manual like

Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual?

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[lorisuewho]

I am trying to figure out how to jump in on this method. I am looking at WRTR and LOE. I am so confused!

All I think I really know is that:

 

Spalding is the method.

WRTR is the manual.

Ellie is the expert.

 

Can anyone tell me more? Specifically if I am getting started with a second grader who has done 2 levels of AAS and a first grader who has done no levels of AAS, but does know his alphabet and basic letter sounds, what do I need to buy?

[Guest]

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[Hunter]

Yup, I did misunderstand the crooked path comment. I thought about that afterwards. I did not mean to sound cranky though. I hope you did realize that! I was just trying to explain my thought process on this. It has been really difficult for me this year. I have had to let go of programs that I thought we would be using for a long time to come. I have to reevaluate every year and I have had to face the fact that what I love or is in my heart is not always what is best for the boys. I need to remain flexible if I want to give them a good education and not just follow what's in my heart ;).

 

Thank you for the support and my apologies if I sounded like I was upset. I sincerely was not. I was just trying to explain my position :).

 

I'm glad you are okay. I wasn't offended, just worried that you might have felt like you needed to defend yourself to me, and I was sad that maybe you were feeling unsupported and judged, which was the OPPOSITE of what I was thinking and trying to express to you.

 

Methods are made for the children. Children are not made for the methods. Homeschooling is a sloppy endeavor. The most efficient learning is often all over the place and around in circles. Coming back in circles isn't a sign of a mistake or a failure. Crooked paths are sometimes the most efficient. When I'm teaching an ESL or 2E person I'm so all over the place, and winging it, that I can't even describe it. It's like my breathing matches up with theirs and all the world's resources that I know about, are being channeled through me, to them.

They feel that and trust me. They set the pace. I react and adapt. Not the other way around. It's exhausting but exhilarating work.

 

I've sensed from the way you talk, that maybe it's like that with you and your boys? I sense you are a born tutor. A tutor is different than a lecturer. Teachers can be either one or a mixture. When you were writing about teaching about the little one, I felt your tutor expertise and totally trusted it.

 

Marie, trust yourself. You are an awesome teacher. Take it all as it comes. You are the absolutely best one to know how to steer your family ship. There are things you are sensing each day. Things you might not even have the vocabulary to express, but are valid and important. All of us who have known you for awhile, know you've got this! :-) You got this! And we know it.

 

Just know...that text is a hard media to get across tone. And I can be a bit of an aspie, so...it's even harder for me to sense and express tone in my writing. I want you to feel respected, validated, supported and all good things, because that is honestly all I'm feeling, when I write to you.

[Hunter]

Even if you do get LOE, you will want the WRTR as a reference. LOE is not finished! So I'd start with WRTR, since you will need it anyway and it's far cheaper than LOE.

 

LOE handwriting is D'nealian. I do NOT suggest using that! My absolutely favorite part of Spalding is the handwriting.

 

LOE's one page lesson plans are enticing. But it has other lacks. LOE is not ALL of Spalding PLUS one page lesson plans. When you put them on either side of a scale, Spalding is the heavyweight.

 

Some moms will do better using LOE for a bit to get the idea. Many of them are going to be selling their manuals soon though and returning to Spalding. Wait till the first glut of used manuals hits the market if you can :-)

[Ellie]

I've wondered.... Would it be--

Beers is the method; PR is the manual like

Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual?

Logically, yes. :D But Mrs. Spalding named her method and referred to WRTR as the manual; I don't think Barbara Beers does that. :)

[Ellie]

I am trying to figure out how to jump in on this method. I am looking at WRTR and LOE. I am so confused!

All I think I really know is that:

 

Spalding is the method.

WRTR is the manual.

Ellie is the expert.

 

Can anyone tell me more? Specifically if I am getting started with a second grader who has done 2 levels of AAS and a first grader who has done no levels of AAS, but does know his alphabet and basic letter sounds, what do I need to buy?

WRTR is the manual for the Spalding Method. LOE is its own method (albeit very similar to Spalding). So you choose to do Spalding or LOE. Clear as mud? :D

 

If you want to do Spalding, you need the manual (WRTR), a set of phonogram cards, and the Spelling Assessment Manual. There are other things you could get later, if you want to go that far, such as the McCall Harby booklets, but you can definitely wait on those.

 

You can start both your dc at the same time: give them a spelling test out of the Spelling Assessment Manual, just to have a benchmark; begin teaching the letters which begin with circles, then the letters that begin with lines, four a day, reviewing all of them daily. When they know the first 45 (if you're using the fifth or sixth edition) or the first 54 (if using earlier editions), you begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayers List. At some point, you'll begin to do some things differently with your older dc, but I wouldn't worry about that yet. :)

[LoveBaby]

Ellie...have you ever considered doing a Spalding webinar?

 

You have such incredible wisdom and so many tidbits to share!

 

I am reading WRTR after having used PR for the last couple of years. I am having many "aha" moments, truly understanding why Mrs. Beers is doing things the way she does.

[Ellie]

Ellie...have you ever considered doing a Spalding webinar?

Oh, no, I couldn't do that, not without Spalding Education International's permission, and they already have some things like that. I'd get togehter with local peeps to go through the manual and stuff, but that's my limit. :)

 

You have such incredible wisdom and so many tidbits to share!

Aw, thanks.

 

I am reading WRTR after having used PR for the last couple of years. I am having many "aha" moments, truly understanding why Mrs. Beers is doing things the way she does.

Yup. :-)

[LoveBaby]

Well...maybe you could do an " Ellie" webinar!? ;) :lol:

[Guest]

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Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest

[allymom]

I never expected this thread to go 10 pages.

[Guest]

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[Hunter]

1,011 people have read your thread so far :-)

[Ellie]

Well...maybe you could do an " Ellie" webinar!? ;) :lol:

:lol:

[Ellie]

I never expected this thread to go 10 pages.

:D