Manual Training and Handwork: another one of my controversial Sunday prompts :-)

[Hunter]

I can't let a Sunday go by without trying to provide an interesting prompt for us to discuss :-) What are your views on handwork and manual training as part of a child's curriculum?

 

What is manual training?

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/www7/manualtr.html

 

Are these vintage manual training texts a precursor to Waldorf handwork?

 

Primary Handwork for Grades 1-4

 

Manual of Handwork

 

What and How

 

Occupations for Little Fingers

 

Edited March 18, 2012 by Hunter

[Rosie_0801]

Now there's another topic that has had me grinding my teeth over my inability to access most of Google Books. :glare:

 

I think handcrafts are extremely valuable for the sorts of kids whose strongest skills are of the hidden variety. As a younger person I used to feel bad because I wasn't good at anything anyone could see except reading, and that didn't count because everyone could read. It is also very helpful to have such skills when you are a child on a small budget (as in it took virtually the whole year's pocket money to purchase enough Christmas presents for everyone!)

 

I've often wished for resources that broke crafts down into their prerequisites, I suppose I should call them. I've learned the little bit I know (vastly more interest than talent here!) as an adult so I don't really understand how to teach a child.

 

Rosie

Edited March 18, 2012 by Rosie_0801

[Laughingmommy]

I am scared to do it, but I really want to. I did teach my big kids to knit. But that was it. I wanted us to weave, but I really couldn't figure it out. I meant to do paper weaving with them, but never got confident enough. Handwork is very intimidating to me. I still have a set of wood carving tools I bought a decade ago to make simple toys for my now 6th grader then. I just started doing art with them. I've been studying OM to prepare for my little kids for OM K next year. I hope it'll be enough hand-holding for me.

 

Pei

Edited March 18, 2012 by Laughingmommy
clarification

[Rosie_0801]

Pei, try looking up tablet weaving. I've some pics of one style of loom in a folder in my profile here. It's not perfect, but you can knock it together in about 5 minutes. My favourite site for patterns got lost when geocities died but there are others out there if you get enthused. It's a pain to warp the loom, but once you have, even a 6 year old could learn quickly. There's so much to learn, but it's very easy to start.

 

Rosie

[alisoncooks]

Awesome links. Now I want a loom!

 

I think it's good for little fingers to learn busy work, ways to occupy their bodies and use their minds in different ways. I also think it's a shame that we no longer have or value these skills.

 

I am a self-taught knitter (still a beginner) and I wish I'd learned as a child. I will definitely be looking into these things.

[kathkath]

Thank you for shariing!

[nono]

Makes sense to me, esp. if you saw my two! They love to be engaged mentally and physically. :)

[Hunter]

Here is a full hand sewing curricula, called Sewing and Textiles by Mary Lockwood Matthews.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Sewing_and_textiles.html?id=49sZAAAAYAAJ

 

Handwork and Manual Training takes up LOTS of time. To fit it into the curriculum, means less time spent on academics. What do you think about that? In PS kids get tracked into vocational or academic tracks. The vocational students seldom go to college. During the Vietnam War, I heard of older brothers using their leave time to come back to the USA, to get their younger brothers moved from the vocational track, to the college prep track, hoping to save them from the draft.

 

Many of these vintage textbooks were designed specifically for low income and immigrant family student. Was/is that a good idea?

 

What do you all think of homemaking curricula like CLE and Training Our Daughters to be Keepers at Home being used INSTEAD of college prep and business courses?

 

Do you think business courses are just another form of vocational training? Are business courses an acceptable replacement for academics?

 

How do we balance preparing a student for family and life vs preparing for college?

 

Do you think you primarily have a Hebrew or Greek world view?

 

Some people find my Sunday prompts anxiety provoking and confusing. This is just meant to generate conversation and provide links to unusual resources. Don't take this too seriously or think you need to solve any of MY problems. Just post what YOU want to share. This isn't about ME. I'd like to participate, but want it to be about the TOPIC, not about ME. Got it? :-)

 

If anyone else has any complementary prompts to encourage conversation on this topic, please post YOUR prompts.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Hunter

[Enough]

I think they are EXTREMELY valuable- and thank you so much for those links!

 

Our society values the "head" far, FAR too much. Don't get me wrong- I am in no way, shape, or form an anti-intellectual (far from it), but I find our society's lack of respect for handwork/manual labor and other, non-head endeavors (i.e., physical activity, outdoor time) utterly depressing and embarrassing.

[stripe]

Many of these vintage textbooks were designed specifically for low income and immigrant family student. Was/is that a good idea?

This is a tricky issue, but I think preparing low income students for a profitable career was a better idea than doing nothing for them, and, let's face it, being a plumber or a truck driver today is much better paying and even possibly more interesting than being an office worker in a cubicle making $25-30,000 a year.

 

I also think manual training has its role in everyone's education. Everyone should know how to use their hands to make interesting things. We're none of us all brain.

[Enough]

 

How do we balance preparing a student for family and life vs preparing for college?

 

 

I don't think it's an either-or matter. I think at least until middle school, there is absolutely no good reason why children (ALL children, regardless of their economic status or their academic ability) shouldn't spend a good chunk of time every day on handwork, physical activity, chores, family life prep (plus PLAY). But then again, unlike many people, I don't believe that college prep needs to start at birth. ;)

 

I think middle school is the time for transition to college prep- but that doesn't necessitate an abandonment of manual training. Even kids who go to college need to know how to cook and clean and sew a button and change a tire and do their laundry. (Or at least, *I* think they should. :))

[momma aimee]

i wish i had learned more as a child.

 

i need to start more with my boys but they seem so behind in ability to sit and do something that requires a lot of set work -- legos are ok, it is their head, but to follow a plan... well not so much

[K&Rs Mom]

This is a tricky issue, but I think preparing low income students for a profitable career was a better idea than doing nothing for them, and, let's face it, being a plumber or a truck driver today is much better paying and even possibly more interesting than being an office worker in a cubicle making $25-30,000 a year.

 

:iagree: Any kind of manual trade is a good solid way to support yourself; even if you decide to do something else full-time, it's good to have a fallback plan. I think our recent "everyone must go to college" mindset has been costly - manual work is looked down on by most people, so we're running out of people who know how to do things, even as our stuff gets more and more fragile (made to be replaced instead of repaired).

 

I think manual training is very important - in addition to college prep, if that's what is right for a student. I think in the past we (as a society) shortchanged a lot of lower income or immigrant students by not offering both, but I also think that we've now over-reacted by swinging in the opposite direction.

[TriciaS]

Honestly, I think there are a lot of trades that are just plain going to die out if we don't continue exposing our children to these things. I have friends whose grandfathers or fathers have made beautiful furniture for them. I have no one in my family that was ever exposed to making something like that. It's a dying art form to be able to carve a piece of wood or build a piece of furniture.

 

I'm lucky in that my mother and mil both know how to sew, and my mil to knit, embroider, and paint. They have taught me to sew (and we are trying to work on my knitting!), and you can bet my kids will learn those things, too! It wouldn't necessarily take the place of academics, it seems like more of a "all done with school, let's go play with the sewing machine instead of watching TV" thing. It doesn't have to follow a formal curriculum (IMO), if they are interested in something then I believe that they would continue pursuing it. They can learn while helping me in my every day work, just like they learn cooking.

[regentrude]

How do we balance preparing a student for family and life vs preparing for college? .

 

I do not see this as an exclusive. Children should participate in family life, and they will acquire the necessary skills if they are involved and taught to help. As the children get older, they can have bigger responsibilities, learn to cook etc.

I did not need a "curriculum" to learn how to keep a house, feed my family, parent my children - I learned it by doing it, as did all my friends.

 

What do you all think of homemaking curricula like CLE and Training Our Daughters to be Keepers at Home being used INSTEAD of college prep and business courses?

What I think of it? Not much at all. I want my daughter to have all options, to be able to support herself, and NOT be dependent on a male with an income. Which means that she needs an education that will enable her to earn an income. Ideally in a field she is passionate about. Then she will be able to make choices.

If she decides to stay home with her family, she will be able to do so without having been "taught" through a curriculum - she learns it through living in a functional home. As did my mother and I before her.

[Ruby Rose]

I will first say that my goal is to prepare my children to reach their highest potential and have the skill set to go as far as they desire in education.

 

That said, I have a college degree and it took me a long time to get it. Why? Because I was so interested in so many thing that I pursued interest as they came up, not because they were required for my major. I think my college experience was invaluable, but I haven't seen the payoff of the actual degree. Perhaps that is because I have no desire to be I the cooperate world. BTDT.

 

My personal opinion is that a lot of "jobs" don't really have value. A lot of people out there are extremely stressed out and all they really does push papers all day. There is just too much red tape. I want a job that actually does something.

 

I think self sufficiency is a lost art. I think people are too dependent on money, stores, and plastic to survive. That is why I think is important to teach my family how to build, sew, grow food, raise animals, cook from scratch, and a whole array of DIY. I believe in the back to basics lifestyle. Keeping up with the Joneses is exhausting and what is it you really have then?

 

So yes, I think handwork is invaluable to children.

[momma aimee]

I do not see this as an exclusive. Children should participate in family life, and they will acquire the necessary skills if they are involved and taught to help. As the children get older, they can have bigger responsibilities, learn to cook etc.

I did not need a "curriculum" to learn how to keep a house, feed my family, parent my children - I learned it by doing it, as did all my friends.

 

What I think of it? Not much at all. I want my daughter to have all options, to be able to support herself, and NOT be dependent on a male with an income. Which means that she needs an education that will enable her to earn an income. Ideally in a field she is passionate about. Then she will be able to make choices.

If she decides to stay home with her family, she will be able to do so without having been "taught" through a curriculum - she learns it through living in a functional home. As did my mother and I before her.

 

I for one am raiseing both my boys to assume they will be supporting a wife and family. :001_smile: I can support myself, but it is my expectation that DH be able to or we would not have have kids. DH whole heartedly agrees.

 

My boys will be able to support a wife and kids or i will strongly discourage them having kids.

 

But I do not think "you just learn in it a family" I did not --

[momtoamiracle]

I will look at the links later and didn't get to read all the posts, but my boy loves to work with his hands and we encourage it. We've provided him with building tools since he was a baby. He's known how to hold a wrench, hammer, and a drill since about 2 yrs old. My dh loves carpentry and mechanical work so he's teaching our son about those things. THey have a good time together.

 

 

I think it's important for kids to learn that type of thing. I learned to sew and knit when I was a preteen. It really comes in handy and makes you feel good that you can do those type things and not rely on other people when you need certain things done.

[Laughingmommy]

I definitely see value in practicing handwork/manual work.

 

As for the homemaking curricula, I was really excited to look through them. I think something like that sounds fabulous. The samples were so disappointing, though. Dull and condescending. I view home ec as just practical learning about being a capable grown-up.

 

I don't believe academic training is necessary for a person, though I believe it's rare for no academic training to be favorable. Nor do I believe that college is the goal of primary and secondary education. I see academics as a category of studies in things we're interested in. So math is the study of how things relate to one another numerically and spatially. Science is the study of how things work. Literature is the study of humanity's notion of itself. Handwork is also a study. In fact, I can hardly think of anything that couldn't be a study, and thereby a subcategory of academics. I think it has to do with attitude. For me, academics is romantic and idealistic. Within it are the promise and excitement of knowledge and inquiry. When someone engages in academic work with no joy for either the process or the end result, I find it hard to categorize that work as academic. For me, academics is transformative. It changes what you think and how you view the world. The I who studied a rock by observing its shape and weight and feel and color is not the I before the study. I am transformed in the process of engaging with the rock and thereby engaging with myself. This transformation would perhaps be even greater if I had taken the rock and dropped it or thrown it or maybe broken it apart with a mallet. That, to me, is handwork or manual work. It's yet another way to study, to use one's body to engage with the world. How can that not be considered academics? I don't know that any great scientist or literary critic or philosopher or expert in any academic field could get away with not every using handwork or manual work.

 

I appreciated reading the Heart of Wisdom chart for Greek vs. Hebrew worldviews. I had no idea people thought this. No wonder so many Christians homeschool their kids with a specific desire to keep out dissimilar viewpoints. I understand charts to simplify concepts, yet I found this chart to be especially simplistic, inaccurate, and really shallow. I'm incredulous that people could really believe Greek thought to be that even after a cursory examination. Is it closed-mindedness? It makes me wonder where my blindspots are and if they are that glaring to others as well!

 

Hunter, I'm so glad you're introducing topics to discuss!

 

Pei

[HootyTooty]

don't suppose there is a vintage how to cook book somewhere? I see a Home Economics through vintage books coming about in my head.

 

Google is my friend: The School Kitchen textbook: lessons in cooking and domestic science for the elementary schools

Edited March 19, 2012 by HootyTooty

[Hunter]

HootyTooty, there are vintage cookbook curricula. I just don't have the links handy right now.

 

Laughingmommmy, I find the chart helpful to at least introduce the idea of the different world views. I wish there were a better source, but I don't know of one. I have to admit, for better or worse, for right or wrong, I know that both the Hebrew and Greek world views shape my personal education philosophy. It has helped me a lot to understand where they contradict each other and why I sometimes am feeling confused about how to proceed. Reading that chart, was a major aha moment for me. It EXPLAINED a lot that I wasn't able to previously label.