Protestants: What do you do for St. Patrick's Day?

[dangermom]

I've been sitting here typing and retyping, trying to figure out a way to say this that won't hurt anyone's feelings or get me in trouble. I'm just going to say it.

 

Unless you understand Irish politics, please don't wear orange on St. Patrick's day. It's not a symbol of being Protestant, it's a symbol of hate and discrimination against Catholics. I'm not saying that's what anyone here is doing on purpose, but you need to understand the history to get how hurtful and offensive that is to an Irish Catholic.

 

Nobody needs to wear green or celebrate the holiday or any such thing, but deliberately wearing orange is historically a partisan action.

 

Just sayin'.

 

:iagree: That's pretty much what I was thinking. (I am not Catholic, or Protestant, or even Anglican!)

[swellmomma]

We are protestant, St. Patty's has less to do with religion to us and more to do with heritage. Our ancenstry is Irish. For St. PAtty's we eat lucky charms, laugh about dd12 being part leprechaun(she truly is ;) ) we read stories about the real history of St. Pat and about finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Some years we focus on Ireland itself rather than St. Pat, and do flag and map work, do some research list to some irish music and decorate a "blarney stone" I have never heard of wearing orange on St. Pat's before.

[Chris in VA]

Actually some Protestants do ask the saints to pray for them, as do the Catholics.

[saraha]

We had Lucky Charms for breakfast and are going to watch Veggie Tales Sumo of the Opera, which has an animated story of St. Patricks life.

[kolamum]

Never heard the Orange thing..

 

We always wear green, this year we decked ourselves out a bit more then usual. We always have corned beef & Cabbage, but this year we had Corned beef and cole slaw instead. I made Jello Fluff with lime jello for their themed desert {we normally do homemade mint ice cream sandwiches}

 

This year I involved a Leprechaun too who hid around the house every day for the first 16 days of March. Then on the 17th he left one huge mess in our house. Plenty of balloons, gold, and shamrocks to encourage the clean-up. My children are old enough to know it was just great fun. ;)

 

We had rainbow smoothies for breakfast, & the rest of the day is a bit of a blur because I spent 2 hours dealing with the phone company only to still not have my mobile working & another hour driving my mil between chemist, hospital, and home. :lol:

[PinkInTheBlue]

Thank you for the education and the leading me to learn more. Very interesting.

[chiguirre]

Before you wear orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially in an Irish Republican bar per pqr) you should read up on the Penal Laws, the Easter Rising and Bloody Sunday. For fairness' sake, you should also consider the perspective of the protestant majority in the north and their objection to being subsumed in the Irish Republic. If you're looking for a good movie, Michael Collins and Bloody Sunday are very educational (although not appropriate for little eyes and certainly not festive). Irish history is very complicated. Thank goodness the Troubles are over.

[Laura Corin]

... marks out a particular political and ethnic set of beliefs. Don't wear it. It's not fun. A friend's father (a protestant minister) was run out of Northern Ireland with threats to his life in the 1970s for his refusal to join the Orange Order - he refused to join because it was not about religion but about politics and tribalism. Not fun.

 

Laura

[pqr]

Before you wear orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially in an Irish Republican bar per pqr) you should read up on the Penal Laws, the Easter Rising and Bloody Sunday. For fairness' sake, you should also consider the perspective of the protestant majority in the north and their objection to being subsumed in the Irish Republic. If you're looking for a good movie, Michael Collins and Bloody Sunday are very educational (although not appropriate for little eyes and certainly not festive). Irish history is very complicated. Thank goodness the Troubles are over.

 

Concur.

 

The Easter Rising is particularly interesting as an example of how attitudes change. The rebels were roundly condemned by the people of Dublin who hurled more than simple curses at them (this is the Catholic population who excoriated them). The rebels did murder civilians during the uprising as well as police and military.

 

It was the behavior of the British once the rising had been crushed that aroused sympathy for the rebels. The execution of some 15 rebels including James Connolly who was executed while strapped to a chair due to an injured leg generated anger and made him a martyr.

Edited March 17, 2012 by pqr

[abbeyej]

St Patrick *far* pre-dated the Reformation. In his time, there was no such thing as Catholic and Protestant -- just Christian. It doesn't make sense to me for Protestants to object to celebrating his life as a fellow Christian and missionary.

[bettyandbob]

St Patrick *far* pre-dated the Reformation. In his time, there was no such thing as Catholic and Protestant -- just Christian. It doesn't make sense to me for Protestants to object to celebrating his life as a fellow Christian and missionary.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't get the Catholic ownership thing.

 

I'm Episcopalian (my mom is Irish Catholic, my dad was protestant became Catholic and then they both left the Catholic church over a scandal in their parish and how said scandal was handled before I was born). My dh was raised Catholic--he never formally joined the Episcopal church but that is where he attends (his mother is Irish and Catholic and his father was a protestant who became a Catholic and later converted to Judiasm after he divorced dh's mom).

 

I do agree with those who say not to put on orange. Ireland's political history is tragic.

[milovany]

I don't get the Catholic ownership thing.

 

Because while there was definitely one church, and all Christians belonged to it, it was either Catholic or Orthodox; which it was depends on whether or not you think the western church left the eastern church or the eastern church left the western church. But St. Patrick was liturgically part of the one church that eventually split into the western (Roman Catholic) and eastern (Eastern Orthodox) churches, so he was one or the other of those. I'm not Catholic (I'm Orthodox), but I do understand the "ownership" if others are trying hard to believe he wasn't Catholic or Orthodox but just a regular ol' Christian.

Edited March 17, 2012 by milovaný

[kitten18]

Never heard the Orange thing..

 

We always wear green, this year we decked ourselves out a bit more then usual. We always have corned beef & Cabbage, but this year we had Corned beef and cole slaw instead. I made Jello Fluff with lime jello for their themed desert {we normally do homemade mint ice cream sandwiches}

 

This year I involved a Leprechaun too who hid around the house every day for the first 16 days of March. Then on the 17th he left one huge mess in our house. Plenty of balloons, gold, and shamrocks to encourage the clean-up. My children are old enough to know it was just great fun. ;)

 

We had rainbow smoothies for breakfast, & the rest of the day is a bit of a blur because I spent 2 hours dealing with the phone company only to still not have my mobile working & another hour driving my mil between chemist, hospital, and home. :lol:

Wow, you are Super Cool Mom, after reading that, I feel like Super Lame Mom.:lol: Sounds like great fun!

[Bluegoat]

Because while there was definitely one church, and all Christians belonged to it, it was either Catholic or Orthodox; which it was depends on whether or not you think the western church left the eastern church or the eastern church left the western church. But St. Patrick was liturgically part of the one church that eventually split into the western (Roman Catholic) and eastern (Eastern Orthodox) churches, so he was one or the other of those. I'm not Catholic (I'm Orthodox), but I do understand the "ownership" if others are trying hard to believe he wasn't Catholic or Orthodox but just a regular ol' Christian.

 

This is not really understanding the position of Protestantism. The Protestant reformers did not consider themselves to be somehow part of or creating a "new" Church - in some cases they considered that the Roman Church was in fact in heresy and they themselves constituted the Catholic Church.

 

That's why many Protestant groups continue to use the Nicene or Apostle's Creed - they believe they are in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, just like all the other saints of history.

 

The difficulty is that one group claims the title "Catholic" as a proper name and as an exclusive designation, and another uses Orthodox (and sometimes also Catholic) in the same way. And both think they actually are catholic and orthodox, and no one else is. It makes it tricky at times to say what for protestants mean without using the rather anachronistic term "Christian".

 

So it isn't that Protestants are trying to claim St Patrick, or any other person, for some "other" Church. They are saying that he is part of the universal Church. When Catholics and Orthodox try to say that they are doing the former, they are misunderstanding Protestant theology significantly.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Bluegoat

[justamouse]

This is not really understanding the position of Protestantism. The Protestant reformers did not consider themselves to be somehow part of or creating a "new" Church - in some cases they considered that the Roman Church was in fact in heresy and they themselves constituted the Catholic Church.

 

 

 

That totally depends on the view from where you sit.

 

As far as the ownership, St. Patrick believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Mary and her immaculate conception, the baptism of infants, and the celibacy of priests. People can claim him as Christian and therefore belonging to the universal church, but most people don't believe in the church he did.

Edited March 18, 2012 by justamouse

[OrganicAnn]

My Irish Catholic family came from north Ireland and we pinch people who wear Orange on St. Patrick's day (just a friendly warning).

 

But we will give anyone one who wants to wear it a big pin that says "Honorary Irish"

[Teachin'Mine]

Thanks for that link. I like this quote:

 

Patrick did most of his work in the 5th century at a time when Christians were simply Christians, long before any division between Roman Catholics and Protestants.

 

 

One day we will all be "simply Christians" again. :D

 

Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!!!

[elizabeth]

Before you wear orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially in an Irish Republican bar per pqr) you should read up on the Penal Laws, the Easter Rising and Bloody Sunday. For fairness' sake, you should also consider the perspective of the protestant majority in the north and their objection to being subsumed in the Irish Republic. If you're looking for a good movie, Michael Collins and Bloody Sunday are very educational (although not appropriate for little eyes and certainly not festive). Irish history is very complicated. Thank goodness the Troubles are over.

 

The Troubles are far from over in my little corner of the world. When dh and his friends went to Ulster for golf I am sad to say that it was not safe for them. Not even marginally so. This was a decade ago. I love the films you mentioned but would also suggest The Wind That Shakes the Barley. This thread is depressing not due to subject matter but the observation that few people are aware of the blood spilled in Ireland and the horrific experiences both sides of the conflict suffered.

[Laurie]

This thread is depressing not due to subject matter but the observation that few people are aware of the blood spilled in Ireland and the horrific experiences both sides of the conflict suffered.

 

My mother used to sing "The Wearing of the Green" to me when I was little.

 

[simka2]

This is not really understanding the position of Protestantism. The Protestant reformers did not consider themselves to be somehow part of or creating a "new" Church - in some cases they considered that the Roman Church was in fact in heresy and they themselves constituted the Catholic Church.

 

That's why many Protestant groups continue to use the Nicene or Apostle's Creed - they believe they are in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, just like all the other saints of history.

 

The difficulty is that one group claims the title "Catholic" as a proper name and as an exclusive designation, and another uses Orthodox (and sometimes also Catholic) in the same way. And both think they actually are catholic and orthodox, and no one else is. It makes it tricky at times to say what for protestants mean without using the rather anachronistic term "Christian".

 

So it isn't that Protestants are trying to claim St Patrick, or any other person, for some "other" Church. They are saying that he is part of the universal Church. When Catholics and Orthodox try to say that they are doing the former, they are misunderstanding Protestant theology significantly.

 

I think the quote below illustrates why RC and EO can feel ownership issues. Basically what does the "just" christian mean? It could mean "just" christian, as in, "There is only one type of christian...RC/EO." Or it could mean something else like, "He was just christian...not RC/EO."

 

 

 

St Patrick *far* pre-dated the Reformation. In his time, there was no such thing as Catholic and Protestant -- just Christian. It doesn't make sense to me for Protestants to object to celebrating his life as a fellow Christian and missionary.

 

Not picking on you!!!! It was just a perfect opportunity. ;)

[justamouse]

Celiabacy is a 10th Century development.

Immaculate conception of Mary was declared dogma in the late 1800s.

 

But St. Patrick did indeed believe in the real presence in the Eucharist, and in sacramental Christianity in general, and was part of the ONE Church.

 

Off to vespers. One of our parishioners, Pat, is going to be there. She has a very bad situation going with cancer, and we are all going to gather with her on her Name Day.

 

Yes, I understand that about celibacy, but MANY were celibate, monks, obviously, and St. Patrick, too. And though the IC was declared dogma in the late 1800s, it was believed far before then. Not by all of course. ;)

 

And the Catholic understanding of the Nicene Creed is very different than the Protestant understanding.

[OrganicAnn]

 

 

This prayer is attributed to St. Patrick. It is called the "breastplate" of St. Patrick as in armor to protect one.

 

 

 

The Breastplate of Saint Patrick

 

 

 

I arise today through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity, through belief in the Threeness, through confession of the Oneness of the Creator of creation.

 

I arise today through the strength of Christ with His Baptism,

 

through the strength of His Crucifixion with His Burial,

 

through the strength of His Resurrection with His Ascension,

 

through the strength of His descent for the Judgment of Doom.

 

I arise today through the strength of the love of Cherubim

 

in obedience of Angels, in the service of the Archangels,

 

in hope of resurrection to meet with reward,

 

in prayers of Patriarchs, in predictions of Prophets,

 

in preachings of Apostles, in faiths of Confessors,

 

in innocence of Holy Virgins, in deeds of righteous men.

 

I arise today, through the strength of Heaven:

 

light of Sun, brilliance of Moon, splendour of Fire,

 

speed of Lightning, swiftness of Wind, depth of Sea,

 

stability of Earth, firmness of Rock.

 

I arise today, through God's strength to pilot me:

 

God's might to uphold me, God's wisdom to guide me,

 

God's eye to look before me, God's ear to hear me,

 

God's word to speak for me, God's hand to guard me,

 

God's way to lie before me, God's shield to protect me,

 

God's host to secure me:

 

against snares of devils, against temptations of vices,

 

against inclinations of nature, against everyone who

 

shall wish me ill, afar and anear, alone and in a crowd.

 

I summon today all these powers between me (and these evils):

 

against every cruel and merciless power that may oppose my body and my soul, against incantations of false prophets,

 

against black laws of heathenry,

 

against false laws of heretics, against craft of idolatry,

 

against spells of witches and smiths and wizards,

 

against every knowledge that endangers man's body and soul.

 

Christ to protect me today

 

against poison, against burning,

 

against drowning, against wounding,

 

so that there may come abundance of reward.

 

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ in me,

 

Christ beneath me, Christ above me,

 

Christ on my right, Christ on my left,

 

Christ in breadth, Christ in length, Christ in height,

 

Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,

 

Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,

 

Christ in every eye that sees me,

 

Christ in every ear that hears me.

 

I arise today through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity, through belief in the Threeness, through confession of the Oneness of the Creator of creation.

 

Salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is of Christ. May Thy Salvation, O Lord, be ever with us.

 

[chiguirre]

The Troubles are far from over in my little corner of the world. When dh and his friends went to Ulster for golf I am sad to say that it was not safe for them. Not even marginally so. This was a decade ago. I love the films you mentioned but would also suggest The Wind That Shakes the Barley. This thread is depressing not due to subject matter but the observation that few people are aware of the blood spilled in Ireland and the horrific experiences both sides of the conflict suffered.

 

In 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein reached an agreement on local governance in Ulster. Here's a link:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/world/europe/27irish.html?_r=1

 

There's been some violence since then, but it's much, much less than it was at the height of the Troubles.

[2_girls_mommy]

I just wanted to say that not knowing that people wear orange on St. Patrick's Day does not mean people aren't aware of the blood that has been shed in Ireland's conflicts. It just means we weren't aware that people wear orange as a political statement about it...

[lotsofpumpkins]

I just wanted to say that not knowing that people wear orange on St. Patrick's Day does not mean people aren't aware of the blood that has been shed in Ireland's conflicts. It just means we weren't aware that people wear orange as a political statement about it...

 

:iagree:

[lotsofpumpkins]

One day we will all be "simply Christians" again. :D

 

 

I'm looking forward to that day!!!!

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm looking forward to that day!!!!

 

 

Me too!!! We are all meant to be one. :001_smile:

 

Thank you OrganicAnn for posting his beautiful prayer!

[8circles]

I claim St Patrick as part of the history of my church as a protestant. I dont deny that he was part of the Catholic church (how could you, thats so silly) but to us, it just doesnt matter. I don t even see how this is an issue.

 

We don't celebrate the day so much as recognize it. I wore green today but it was accidental. We talk about St Patrick because I think his story is pretty darn cool.

 

And I respectfully disagree that protestants interpret the Nicene creed completely differently than the Catholic or Orthodox do. Differently, yes. Completely differently, no. I believe we are all part of the universal church, as distasteful as that may be to some. Completely differently would make that impossible.

[8circles]

Me too!!! We are all meant to be one. :001_smile:

 

Thank you OrganicAnn for posting his beautiful prayer!

 

:iagree:

[Julie Marie Goldilocks]

We always wore orange on St Patrick's day as an Episcopalian kid and celebrated it!  As a convert to Judaism for the past 35 years, I still wear orange today lol and my kids always wore both.  For me, wearing orange while celebrating, actually shows Protestant (&Jewish 😆)SUPPORT for St Patrick! 🧡💚🧡💚🧡💚

[Lori D.]

Pot-stirring first time poster resurrecting a ZOMBIE THREAD!
🧟‍♂️

[Resilient]

I don't understand the Zombie thing.  What if the new poster just did a search for something related to St. Patrick's Day on of all things St. Patrick's Day and wanted to chime in? I'm new around here too and it seems like it's something that might happen without noticing a date.  

Can someone please explain what the rule is about old threads? I don't want to make a faux pas.  

[Lori D.]

4 hours ago, Resilient said:

I don't understand the Zombie thing.  What if the new poster just did a search for something related to St. Patrick's Day on of all things St. Patrick's Day and wanted to chime in? I'm new around here too and it seems like it's something that might happen without noticing a date.  

Can someone please explain what the rule is about old threads? I don't want to make a faux pas.  

Welcome! There have been SO many -- dozens and dozens -- of these old threads suddenly being resurrected in the past 2 months or so, and ALL are the first post from a new poster, and almost ALL of the threads either had controversy on them or could easily start controversy. Since it has constantly been the poster's very first post on these boards, and "strangely", not on a thread with a legit homeschooling topic, but a side topic that is potentially controversial side topic, the "regulars" on these boards are all being very "troll-wary" -- not interested in trolls breezing in to "re-stir the pot" and get a frenzy of heated responses going. 

To legitimate new homeschoolers, and to posters new to these boards who really are interested in homeschooling and homeschool topics, then, welcome!

[maize]

On 3/17/2012 at 1:59 PM, celticmom said:

I had not associated orange with St. Patrick's day until last year when I was picking up some small items to wear on St. Patrick's day and noticed that most of the items offered had both orange and green on them. I guess those items are kind of offensive to both groups then? 😕 By the way, if I remember correctly they were sold at one of the big box stores so a very mainstream location.

If they have both orange and green it is probably to represent the Irish flag.

That's not offensive.

[maize]

Ah, didn't notice the zombiness 🤣

[goldenecho]

I don't think it mattered that he was Catholic.   This was long before there was Protestantism, for one thing.   And he's such a good example of an early missionary.   He didn't come with force...he came on his own.   Some of the connections he made remind between Christianity and what people believed already, pulling out true things from them, reminds me of Paul talking about the idol to the unknown God.  For example emphasized the Trinity, something that connected to a belief they had that three was a holy or spiritual number.   The story that he used the shamrock to explain the Trinity may be legend, but its legend that fits with things he actually taught/did (unlike some legends that are either symbolic (driving out the snakes) or probably made up. 

Some years, like this one, we've really done nothing for St. Patricks Day.   But in other years we have read his story or watched a video on him.      I've read St. Patrick's Confession, which might be a good activity for older kids.   And we've done shamrock+Trinity crafts. 

We've also made Irish shortbread cookies (other Irish recipes might be a fun way to celebrate this).  And we've learned about Ireland in general  on St. Patrick's Day. 
 

[purpleowl]

16 hours ago, Resilient said:

I don't understand the Zombie thing.  What if the new poster just did a search for something related to St. Patrick's Day on of all things St. Patrick's Day and wanted to chime in? I'm new around here too and it seems like it's something that might happen without noticing a date.  

Can someone please explain what the rule is about old threads? I don't want to make a faux pas.  

In addition to what @Lori D. said, these new posters don't tend to ever post again.

[vonfirmath]

On 3/17/2012 at 9:25 AM, lotsofpumpkins said:

We are protestant, and my dc are all wearing green today. I told them that St. Patrick was kidnapped and made a slave in Ireland, and after he returned home he decided (after several years) to go back to Ireland as a missionary. Does it really matter that he was Catholic? He was telling people about Christ and trying to eliminate paganism. But then again, Protestants are "supposed" to wear orange on St. Patrick's Day. That feels like taking sides though.

 

Just wondering what other Protestants are doing today. I was reading some old threads about what Catholics/Irish do on St. Patrick's Day, and a lot of the traditions sound like fun! I grew up simply wearing green, and then in high school I was told that I should actually be wearing orange. [i was not told the reason for wearing orange back in high school, and today I've learned that it's about Irish politics. So, even though I am protestant, I am NOT wearing orange today. We are wearing green to celebrate the life of a man who followed God's call and told countless people about Him. Just wanted to update this in case someone doesn't read all the replies!]

I've never heard wear orange

We wear green, make corned beef and cabbage, and learn about St. Patrick.

[caffeineandbooks]

So just to restate: ZOMBIE THREAD!!!