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http://www.societyforclassicallearning.org/images/conf2009/andrew_kern_implementing_liberal_arts.mp3

 

If you are looking for inspiration, especially if you are not classically educated, this is a good talk to listen to. You may want to fast forward past the first few minutes (which have technical issues) and the next few minutes (which have techies talking). But past that is really good! :D

 

 

OK, I wish I had listened to this first. 3 pages of notes.

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I don't have much to say besides "I can't believe I made it through this whole thread!"

I'm both overwhelmed and encouraged, with lots to read/listen to and think about before I can put any more words together.

 

Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts and links... though I do wish y'all had waited until my official school year was over and I felt more free to spend all my time thinking about this. (And yes, I do see the irony!) :tongue_smilie:

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Andrew-

 

Ah, now I see your master plan...

 

Well, there goes the saving grace for the modern educational system.

 

You are trying to kill all of us homeschooling mothers off by working us to death!

 

Blessings,

Connections

(Tongue firmly in cheek- except for the blessings part)

 

Well, kind of, but there is one more really important point to make. I don't believe anybody should try to do this alone. It's not safe! ;)

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I am so tempted to open another thread that deals with a list of books attached to this journey. So tempted. But I won't, because I like the energy here.

 

This particular reference I'm going to share now came from another area, but is interwoven with this discussion. I went hunting for it, and found an online freebie for it. Here it is.

 

Henri Irénée Marrou

A history of education in antiquity

 

Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=wv6kSdSFTgMC&dq=isbn:0299088146

 

Cluecard:

 

Scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see hyperlinks and a chart of contents. Start clicking lines, the pages will open.

 

The amazon page with two reviews are here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/History-Education-Antiquity-Wisconsin-Classics/dp/0299088146

 

:D <---for Justamouse for whom I know cannot resist these things :leaving:

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That gives you three practical "assignments":

 

1. Determine how you will structure the overall science program from childhood to graduation. I recommend identifying the big ideas and truths you want them to learn, the skills they'll need to master, and the main domains of information they'll need to know. One page for each should do, though you might want to break the domains of information into matter (chemistry), force (physics), and life (biology).

 

2. Break that into annual syllabi.

 

3. Identify specific lessons based on the facts, truths, or ideas you are teaching. This is the ongoing lesson preparation.

 

Then get the program that helps you fulfill your objectives instead of implementing somebody else's curriculum.

 

I'm sure that has answered every conceivable question about science, so I'll go away now.

 

:auto:

 

 

I'm wondering if this can be as simple as this (for younger kids):

 

1. Chemistry--cooking

2. Physics-- Rockets

3. Biology-- Nature Study and Gardening

 

(Meanwhile keeping a journal about each, etc.)

 

I'm sure I'm way over simplifying, I'm just trying to understand how simple (or complicated) this needs to be.

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I am so tempted to open another thread that deals with a list of books attached to this journey. So tempted. But I won't, because I like the energy here.

 

This particular reference I'm going to share now came from another area, but is interwoven with this discussion. I went hunting for it, and found an online freebie for it. Here it is.

 

Henri Irénée Marrou

A history of education in antiquity

 

Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=wv6kSdSFTgMC&dq=isbn:0299088146

 

Cluecard:

 

Scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see hyperlinks and a chart of contents. Start clicking lines, the pages will open.

 

The amazon page with two reviews are here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/History-Education-Antiquity-Wisconsin-Classics/dp/0299088146

 

:D <---for Justamouse for whom I know cannot resist these things :leaving:

 

 

I own this book, but forgot about it until today. I got it at a used booked store, and who knows where or when. I think it's time I actually read it.

 

You know what would be fun on the upcoming Circe Forum is to have a "book club" where we read a chapter a week of a book that we all vote on.

Edited by LutheranGirl
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I am so tempted to open another thread that deals with a list of books attached to this journey. So tempted. But I won't, because I like the energy here.

 

This particular reference I'm going to share now came from another area, but is interwoven with this discussion. I went hunting for it, and found an online freebie for it. Here it is.

 

Henri Irénée Marrou

A history of education in antiquity

 

Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=wv6kSdSFTgMC&dq=isbn:0299088146

 

Cluecard:

 

Scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see hyperlinks and a chart of contents. Start clicking lines, the pages will open.

 

The amazon page with two reviews are here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/History-Education-Antiquity-Wisconsin-Classics/dp/0299088146

 

:D <---for Justamouse for whom I know cannot resist these things :leaving:

 

:lol: It's like glitter for a magpie. Yer ebil, I tell ya.

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Ya, and you have me chasing Peter Kreeft all over the interwebs tonight like some sort of stalker-chick.

 

You n yer 2 buck downloads! I need free. Walmart isn't going to happen until this weekend.

 

Only for this discussion will I set foot in a Walmart. You have any idea what an honor that is? It's like the purple heart or something. :lol:

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You know what would be fun on the upcoming Circe Forum is to have a "book club" where we read a chapter a week of a book that we all vote on.

 

:party:

 

:iagree:

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Do a couple years of teaching the classics first, then when your child is in seventh or eighth grade re-visit LTW.

 

Can someone link Teaching the Classics? Is it the package IEW sells for $90?

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I used to listen to Kreeft talks while I cleaned (I heart Kreeft!!), but they are now charging for his unless I go searching for them. :(

 

I found some Kreeft on youtube tonight. Listened to the one on Beauty, the 3 part series.

 

It's worth a second run. My personal opinion is he really gets smoking in the final moments of the third part. Makes the brain go WHOO WHOO, like a choo choo train, and for me...it felt so connected, fast..I literally found myself bobbing my head in agreement.

 

It cuts short a little, the actual ending is missing, but I really enjoyed it.

 

This particular set is not educational pedagogy as in sit down with your books, learn a lesson in an academic curriculum sort of way, it's a exploratory talk which is highly religious in nature.

 

I'll stop trying to explain it all now, if one is curious enough about it, you'll figure it out.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=peter+kreeft+beauty&oq=peter+kreeft+beauty&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_l=youtube-psuggest.3..0.105316l111145l0l111345l19l19l0l7l7l0l182l1425l0j11l11l0. This link is for the general collection.

 

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glgr0qierKk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL5932631E559C8538

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qirsinr0_lo&feature=BFa&list=PL5932631E559C8538&lf=results_main

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Ul43OqeoI&feature=BFa&list=PL5932631E559C8538&lf=results_main

Edited by one*mom
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I found some Kreeft on youtube tonight.

 

 

 

I have listened to all of his talks that I have found multiple times b/c each time I listen I get more out of it than I did before. ;)

 

One of my absolute favorites is on Til We Have Faces (and I have never even read the book!) That talked was probably one of the ones that really spurred my love for Lewis and mythology on a different level than simple enjoyment.

 

I now have a copy of Til We Have Faces sitting in front of me (arrived yesterday). I ordered it when I ordered several other books. It is near the top of my must read pile now b/c even if it means I am going to be more and more sleep deprived, I am going to carve out more time for myself at night when the house is quiet.......

Edited by 8FillTheHeart

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I'm wondering if this can be as simple as this (for younger kids):

 

1. Chemistry--cooking

2. Physics-- Rockets

3. Biology-- Nature Study and Gardening

 

(Meanwhile keeping a journal about each, etc.)

 

I'm sure I'm way over simplifying, I'm just trying to understand how simple (or complicated) this needs to be.

 

Now THAT is practical application.

 

 

I don't think that is oversimplifying.

 

I heard somewhere if you can't teach something to a 5 year old, you can't teach it to anyone. I believe it was Andrew Pudewa.

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Y'all are killing me with these links to videos and online talks. I am still in the caveman era and have dial up. Everytime a link is shared, I sit here like a crazed animal, drooling and intensely fighting the need to howl. :D

 

But I do get Amazon so I am prowling around trying to find anything I can on Kreeft. :001_smile:

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I have listened to all of his talks that I have found multiple times b/c each time I listen I get more out of it than I did before. ;)

 

One of my absolute favorites is on Til We Have Faces (and I have never even read the book!) That talked was probably one of the ones that really spurred my love for Lewis and mythology on a different level than simple enjoyment.

 

I now have a copy of Til We Have Faces sitting in front of me (arrived yesterday). I ordered it when I ordered several other books. It is near the top of my must read pile now b/c even if it means I am going to be more and more sleep deprived, I am going to carve out more time for myself at night when the house is quiet.......

 

 

Can you link the Til We Have Faces talk? I tried to search for it and didn't see it.

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i want to apologize to any of you who felt excluded by my comment. It was such an "American" thing to do, and as one who has lived outside of the States for a good decade I'm sorry to have fallen into that mistake.

 

I believe that American education, which I know best is in deep crisis and having reflected on this for nearly 20 years I believe that the Home School mom really is our last best hope. Whether that applies to other countries as well I cannot say.

 

What I meant to be praising, and being a man I stumbled over my missing chromosome, was the devotion of all of you mothers to your children. It is the love of a mother for her child that always "saves the world."

 

Please forgive me for not being more considerate of all of you.

 

I had emailed Andrew, too, so when he saw my original post, he knew it was from me, and he knew my background as an American mom. :-) Thanks, Andrew, for answering so thoroughly, and for your kind comments.

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Ya, and you have me chasing Peter Kreeft all over the interwebs tonight like some sort of stalker-chick.

 

You n yer 2 buck downloads! I need free. Walmart isn't going to happen until this weekend.

 

Only for this discussion will I set foot in a Walmart. You have any idea what an honor that is? It's like the purple heart or something. :lol:

 

Somewhere on there he explains that they are actually free with other vendors? I honestly haven't had time to click through and see-that one on Beauty was the first I was going to listen to. :001_smile:

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Okay, the "Till We Have Faces." I did some preview reading and browsing. This is heavy. I'm not ready.

 

I slept in today, what bliss. Bliss I tell you.

 

I found a copy of CS Lewis "Mere Christianity" yesterday at the bookstore. Oh boy. I think I better get a list of all his titles eh?

 

I've not done the CS Lewis thing. I'm aware of a general sense of his works/life, but haven't done anything deep.

 

Anyone fans of his out there want to drop some hints or thoughts on his works?

 

How much of my mental hard drive is this going to take up? :lol:

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Ah. Lewis. I've not read his Perelandra series (I think that title is correct, but I'm not sure...) or Til We Have Faces, but I have read Mere Chritianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Great Divorce, and the Narnia books. Lewis is like a sneak attack on your brain. You read it, and it is not too hard. Your brain doesn't hurt, and you congratulate yourself on your intelligence. You may even smirk a bit. Then, some time later, it all hits you. You go back and re-read. And re-read. Lewis is a slow burn, not a fireworks show, IME.

 

 

ETA His trilogy is called The Space Trilogy and Perelandra is the second book in the series, not the title of the trilogy-- sorry!

Now I'm off to find Til We Have Faces...

Edited by urpedonmommy
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Okay, the "Till We Have Faces." I did some preview reading and browsing. This is heavy. I'm not ready.

 

I slept in today, what bliss. Bliss I tell you.

 

I found a copy of CS Lewis "Mere Christianity" yesterday at the bookstore. Oh boy. I think I better get a list of all his titles eh?

 

I've not done the CS Lewis thing. I'm aware of a general sense of his works/life, but haven't done anything deep.

 

Anyone fans of his out there want to drop some hints or thoughts on his works?

 

How much of my mental hard drive is this going to take up? :lol:

 

Ooh...ooh!! Read the Great Divorce....AAAAHHHHHH....I love CS Lewis!!

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Ah. Lewis. I've not read his Perelandria series (I think that title is correct, but I'm not sure...) but I have read Mere Chritianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Great Divorce, and the Narnia books. Lewis is like a sneak attack on your brain. You read it, and it is not too hard. Your brain doesn't hurt, and you congratulate yourself on your intelligence. You may even smirk a bit. Then, some time later, it all hits you. You go back and re-read. And re-read. Lewis is a slow burn, not a fireworks show, IME.

 

Perfect description of Lewis. Perelandra is a great read....and it is deep too. My teens love this trilogy, and I did too.

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I found Peter Kreeft podcasts on iTunes for free. Twenty-six of them, including Till We Have Faces. I just subscribed and am downloading them all and putting them on my phone.

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Ooh...ooh!! Read the Great Divorce....AAAAHHHHHH....I love CS Lewis!!

 

Okay- this one is new for me, or is it?

 

You ever get that feeling you once read a book and forgot it? I opened the first pages and started reading and got that feeling; maybe I read this as a kid or something, but anyway, here's a link to the Google free online edition; Amazon has like zero online free for the Kindle.

 

This is one of those "you have to scroll to the bottom to see the links for pages" things on Google.

 

http://books.google.com/books/about/The_great_divorce.html?id=2EDARL4gw20C

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When you all read Till We Have Faces, will you report back? Or maybe we can start a separate discussion of it somewhere? I read that book twice and somehow I think missed the big picture. Very engaging story, not at all hard to read, but both times at the end I felt that I missed the underlying point of it. But that was years ago, and I have read and learned much since then, so it could be that I would have a very different take on it now. If you all hadn't given me so many other things to read and listen to right now (grrr....) I would pick it up and reread it right now, but the Abolition of Man and Norms and Nobility and Leisure the Basis of Culture and many other things are currently in the queue...

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When you all read Till We Have Faces, will you report back? Or maybe we can start a separate discussion of it somewhere? I read that book twice and somehow I think missed the big picture. Very engaging story, not at all hard to read, but both times at the end I felt that I missed the underlying point of it. But that was years ago, and I have read and learned much since then, so it could be that I would have a very different take on it now. If you all hadn't given me so many other things to read and listen to right now (grrr....) I would pick it up and reread it right now, but the Abolition of Man and Norms and Nobility and Leisure the Basis of Culture and many other things are currently in the queue...

 

Oh. Dyin' laffin. :lol: :lol:

 

You report first. N & N is totally amazing jump off Mt. Everest backward, blind and no parachute praying for a soft snowdrift to land in.

 

That thing is like trying to get through Corbett. Just buy it as a reference and know you'll be living with it for the next 100 years and still not *get* it all.

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Ah. Lewis. I've not read his Perelandra series (I think that title is correct, but I'm not sure...) or Til We Have Faces, but I have read Mere Chritianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Great Divorce, and the Narnia books. Lewis is like a sneak attack on your brain. You read it, and it is not too hard. Your brain doesn't hurt, and you congratulate yourself on your intelligence. You may even smirk a bit. Then, some time later, it all hits you. You go back and re-read. And re-read. Lewis is a slow burn, not a fireworks show, IME.

 

SUCH a good description.

I found Peter Kreeft podcasts on iTunes for free. Twenty-six of them, including Till We Have Faces. I just subscribed and am downloading them all and putting them on my phone.

 

You are AWESOME. Pin them! Pin All the Things! :D

 

If anyone has listened to Brad Birzer on SCL and wants more, there are two more free audios:

 

http://www.catholic.com/profiles/bradley-birzer

 

I have to listen to the SCL ones again. Some of these people are just so deep that I don't get it the first time through. But I am loving having all these audios to listen to.

 

Thank you-I LOVE his lectures.

 

When you all read Till We Have Faces, will you report back? Or maybe we can start a separate discussion of it somewhere? I read that book twice and somehow I think missed the big picture. Very engaging story, not at all hard to read, but both times at the end I felt that I missed the underlying point of it. But that was years ago, and I have read and learned much since then, so it could be that I would have a very different take on it now. If you all hadn't given me so many other things to read and listen to right now (grrr....) I would pick it up and reread it right now, but the Abolition of Man and Norms and Nobility and Leisure the Basis of Culture and many other things are currently in the queue...

 

lol, I know, I feel the same way. We should do a social group book club/lecture club to talk about all of this stuff? Yes?

Oh. Dyin' laffin. :lol: :lol:

 

You report first. N & N is totally amazing jump off Mt. Everest backward, blind and no parachute praying for a soft snowdrift to land in.

 

That thing is like trying to get through Corbett. Just buy it as a reference and know you'll be living with it for the next 100 years and still not *get* it all.

 

I pick it up, read a page, put it down. Bang head. Pick it up again, read a paragraph, bang head...rinse, repeat...

 

If I may offer another good book along these lines? Josef Peiper's The Four Virtues. For after everything else.

Edited by justamouse

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I had emailed Andrew, too, so when he saw my original post, he knew it was from me, and he knew my background as an American mom. :-)

 

Thanks for the explanation, but readers could not have known that from your OP. I actually had no idea, too, that Circe was all about *American* classical education, until someone pointed that out to me. I really thought your OP was about classical ed. in general, with a side mention of being inspired by Circe materials. The thread posts gave me no other notion that the thread was American-centric. I am sure I can't be the only outside-of-America person who thought this, and read the thread with interest, and then was disheartened to read those comments from the Circe-rep himself. But anyway, I am glad he understood where I was coming from! :D And I do appreciate his sentiments he expressed after that towards home-educating mothers in general.

 

Now if I could just remember the thread in which I saw the link to the articles written by the author of Shop Class as Soulcraft (a book I really enjoyed a few years ago) - I thank the person who linked them - I printed off the one about Science Education and Liberal Education to read later. Looks VERY interesting to me.

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When someone gets bored or wants a project, I offer the question..

 

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a tidy collection of all the titles and links from this thread in one condensed spot?"

 

I'm tempted again to do this...what do you guys think? Would it be useful and welcome?

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OK I made a Social Group!

 

 

 

 

When someone gets bored or wants a project, I offer the question..

 

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a tidy collection of all the titles and links from this thread in one condensed spot?"

 

I'm tempted again to do this...what do you guys think? Would it be useful and welcome?

 

 

Make it! Then we can link it in the social group, too. :D

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When someone gets bored or wants a project, I offer the question..

 

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a tidy collection of all the titles and links from this thread in one condensed spot?"

 

I'm tempted again to do this...what do you guys think? Would it be useful and welcome?

 

Yes, yes, yes! It would be wonderful not to have to sift through all these pages.

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Ah. Lewis. I've not read his Perelandra series (I think that title is correct, but I'm not sure...) or Til We Have Faces, but I have read Mere Chritianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Great Divorce, and the Narnia books. Lewis is like a sneak attack on your brain. You read it, and it is not too hard. Your brain doesn't hurt, and you congratulate yourself on your intelligence. You may even smirk a bit. Then, some time later, it all hits you. You go back and re-read. And re-read. Lewis is a slow burn, not a fireworks show, IME.

 

...

 

Oh, you have just given the best description!! Sooooooo true.

 

I found Peter Kreeft podcasts on iTunes for free. Twenty-six of them, including Till We Have Faces. I just subscribed and am downloading them all and putting them on my phone.

 

I can't tell you how happy this makes me. I LOVE listening to Kreeft and I was so disappointed when they started charging for his audios. I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any of the ones on iTunes......I am hoping they are my dear friends.

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When someone gets bored or wants a project, I offer the question..

 

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a tidy collection of all the titles and links from this thread in one condensed spot?"

 

I'm tempted again to do this...what do you guys think? Would it be useful and welcome?

 

I would love this. I don't want to be terribly difficult, but.... would it be possible to pick a top 5 (or so) Start Here type list?

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When you all read Till We Have Faces, will you report back? Or maybe we can start a separate discussion of it somewhere? I read that book twice and somehow I think missed the big picture. Very engaging story, not at all hard to read, but both times at the end I felt that I missed the underlying point of it. But that was years ago, and I have read and learned much since then, so it could be that I would have a very different take on it now. If you all hadn't given me so many other things to read and listen to right now (grrr....) I would pick it up and reread it right now, but the Abolition of Man and Norms and Nobility and Leisure the Basis of Culture and many other things are currently in the queue...

 

 

One*Mom: You could totally read this book. I don't think it's particularly hard to read either, in fact I remember it being a "page-turner". It is a retelling of the Cupid and Psyche myth, which at the time that I read it really didn't know anything about.

 

Understanding all the symbolism is quite another thing. And for some reason I've heard several men say they just didn't get, while women seem to love it. I remember when I first read it someone recommended I read this book along with it, though now I don't quite remember why (it's been 12+ years):

http://www.amazon.com/She-Understanding-Psychology-Robert-Johnson/dp/0060963972/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1333048535&sr=8-4

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When someone gets bored or wants a project, I offer the question..

 

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a tidy collection of all the titles and links from this thread in one condensed spot?"

 

I'm tempted again to do this...what do you guys think? Would it be useful and welcome?

 

That would be nice. We could each take 10 pages to make it more manageable. Just a thought.

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When you all read Till We Have Faces, will you report back? Or maybe we can start a separate discussion of it somewhere? I read that book twice and somehow I think missed the big picture. Very engaging story, not at all hard to read, but both times at the end I felt that I missed the underlying point of it. But that was years ago, and I have read and learned much since then, so it could be that I would have a very different take on it now. If you all hadn't given me so many other things to read and listen to right now (grrr....) I would pick it up and reread it right now, but the Abolition of Man and Norms and Nobility and Leisure the Basis of Culture and many other things are currently in the queue...

 

You should listen to the Kreeft audio. It isn't a super long or overly difficult lecture, but a fantastic, insightful examination of the underlying point of the book. I've read Till We Have Faces several times, and Kreeft articulates the tensions in the book - and their resolutions - beautifully. I just listened while cleaning my kitchen and mopping the floors and was able to follow along fine. Best time cleaning I've had in awhile!

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You should listen to the Kreeft audio. It isn't a super long or overly difficult lecture, but a fantastic, insightful examination of the underlying point of the book. I've read Till We Have Faces several times, and Kreeft articulates the tensions in the book - and their resolutions - beautifully. I just listened while cleaning my kitchen and mopping the floors and was able to follow along fine. Best time cleaning I've had in awhile!

 

Thank you. I will. Moving that one up on my list...

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Well, I made it to post 33 for obvious topics....for some reason this reminds me of hoeing a garden. :)

 

I'll commit to cross referencing to post 50.

 

Who would like to cross reference post 50-100? :) Or some portion thereof?

Edited by one*mom

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I'm set for 50 posts per page, I re edited - I'm committing to cross referencing posts 1 -50 from this thread.

 

lol..ya'll are name droppers I've decided!

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Oh. Dyin' laffin. :lol: :lol:

 

You report first. N & N is totally amazing jump off Mt. Everest backward, blind and no parachute praying for a soft snowdrift to land in.

 

That thing is like trying to get through Corbett. Just buy it as a reference and know you'll be living with it for the next 100 years and still not *get* it all.

 

I'm WAY too ambitious when it comes to books. I think to myself, foolishly, it's in English, why can't I read it? The funny thing about N&N is that I actually owned it once before, found it hard to get through, gave up, and sold it. Now I want it back. But while I will rashly spend $35 on a really hard book I'm not likely to ever finish once, I can't bear to do it twice, so my librarian is hunting it down for me on ILL.

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one*mom is a busy bee back there, linking everything up. :D

 

 

...and I am so grateful!!! Now, I do not have to have 40 tabs open!!! ;)

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