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Tell me why NOT to use MUS


Sahamamama
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Besides the price, that is. :tongue_smilie: I'm specifically interested in the explanations of concepts -- are the explanations more confusing/complicated than they need to be? Are there too many "tricks" or convoluted step to do something that could be done more simply?

 

What do you like about MUS?

 

What do you dislike about it?

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We switched to MUS after using Horizon for K and really like it. There were a few lessons where dd didn't like some of the tricks but since he shows several ways to do the problem we watched the DVD, she worked a few with each method and then I let her pick the method she preferred.

 

I like it because's it is easy to accelerate and it's straight forward, the systematic review is great for making sure de hasn't forgotten things she already learned. She loves the blocks and when we first switched to mus she taught herself quite a few addition and subtraction facts through playing with them. I also like the fact that the curriculum emphasizes learning to do the problems on paper and in your head.

 

I supplement with Singapore cwp for more difficult word problems.

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We switched to MUS after using Horizon for K and really like it. There were a few lessons where dd didn't like some of the tricks but since he shows several ways to do the problem we watched the DVD, she worked a few with each method and then I let her pick the method she preferred.

 

I like it because's it is easy to accelerate and it's straight forward, the systematic review is great for making sure de hasn't forgotten things she already learned. She loves the blocks and when we first switched to mus she taught herself quite a few addition and subtraction facts through playing with them. I also like the fact that the curriculum emphasizes learning to do the problems on paper and in your head.

 

I supplement with Singapore cwp for more difficult word problems.

 

No, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. :svengo: You are supposed to be giving me reasons NOT to get MUS. [Read the instructions, please]. :rolleyes:

 

:lol: Just kidding.

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The more time I've spent with MUS, the more I appreciate the curriculum. I really like the way concepts are explained.

I am BIG on the blocks. We use the blocks. I was sold on the blocks from the first lesson on place value.

We like math around here, so MUS is NOT all we use, however. My kids do LOF for enjoyment of math.

I had to use MM for my child who struggles and struggles with math, not because MUS did not explain concepts well enough for her, but simply because she just needed tons more practice, more story problems, and I really appreciate the metal math skills that MM accents.

I used MM for an older child who was NOT using MUS.

 

I will say that keeping the DVDs from getting scratched is a pain. I wish I had software to capture the DVDs and turn them into a video file.

Also, please be aware that while Steve Demme does teach the concepts well on the videos, the videos are not great quality. They are poorly lit. Pretty much the most basic video content.

 

We do not write in our workbooks. They are just too expensive and I have several kids that need to go through them.

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Here is one reason not to use MUS--the name of the program. Why, why, must they call it "Math-U-See?" A friend asked me the other day what math curriculum we use (she is a public school English teacher whom I greatly respect) and I could not bring myself to say the words.

 

I felt so wise when I could tell people we used the critically acclaimed Singapore math. (Until I realized it was so blessed hard for my math challenged child).

 

We've done much better with math programs with dumb monikers--Math-U-See!! Math Mammoth!! Life of Fred!!

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We do not write in our workbooks. They are just too expensive and I have several kids that need to go through them.

 

This is an idea that could save me some money (three children). What do you do, have the student write the answers/solutions in a notebook? :bigear:

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Here is one reason not to use MUS--the name of the program. Why, why, must they call it "Math-U-See?" A friend asked me the other day what math curriculum we use (she is a public school English teacher whom I greatly respect) and I could not bring myself to say the words.

 

I felt so wise when I could tell people we used the critically acclaimed Singapore math. (Until I realized it was so blessed hard for my math challenged child).

 

We've done much better with math programs with dumb monikers--Math-U-See!! Math Mammoth!! Life of Fred!!

 

:lol: Checked out your blog, and we are coming to your house tomorrow night for some spoonbread. That looks delicious!

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This is an idea that could save me some money (three children). What do you do, have the student write the answers/solutions in a notebook? :bigear:

 

Well, I just have them write the answers on a piece of notebook paper. I tried using a plastic sheet and vis-a-vis markers, but that was such a headache, a hassle, and a mess that I gave up.

 

Sometimes I will just look at the worksheet and make up my own problems based on what they have there. This is especially easy for Alpha and Beta. Take the lesson on adding nines for example---there are only so many "plus nine" problems. :001_smile: I can write those out in any order I choose. :001_smile: I don't feel the need to use those workbook pages at all.

 

DD8 just finished Beta and handed it down to DS6, who started it this week. DS6 just handed down Alpha to DS5. Little sister will not be far behind, either. We didn't bother ordering Primer, and I am glad. The younger kids pick up SO much from the older ones--with just a very little work, they are eager and ready to start.

 

 

My older child who has gone through delta, epsilon and zeta only writes her answers down on notebook paper.

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Besides the price, that is. :tongue_smilie: I'm specifically interested in the explanations of concepts -- are the explanations more confusing/complicated than they need to be? Are there too many "tricks" or convoluted step to do something that could be done more simply?

 

What do you like about MUS?

 

What do you dislike about it?

 

We started b/c of the hands-on nature and the clean pages. We're trying to move on b/c the presentation of multi-digit division, and of fraction multiplying, is counter-intuitive to Button and I don't think leads -- esp. in the case of the fractions -- to a good math sense. Also I'd like more mental math (I know it is there, it's just much simpler than what Button could be doing).

 

I'd also like him, at this level of MUS, to have metric measurement experience and comfort with mental money math (making change, that sort of thing). However, I'm not sure I'd have gone down a different path -- if we switch to Singapore, the measurement and money topics will be easy to catch up on, and he's got fairly strong computational skills from our years with MUS. And he needed the visually clean pages when he was littler.

 

Button started Primer at 3 (wouldn't do art and hated stories, and got funky when left to play on his own -- there were few options for keeping him occupied). He's 6.5 and we're moving through Delta and Epsilon. MUS was fairly easy for me to adapt to his level for a long time, but I am not sure it will continue to work for us. We may go back to it, though; but it was the fraction presentation (multiplying them) that made me very hesitant to move forward with Button. I do believe the PP who was successful with MUS and accelerated children, but am not happy with it for this child and my goals for him.

 

We've worked with MEP and are also looking at Singapore. I'm moving toward a "mainstream" program to keep his computational skills moving along and other materials to push his conceptual understanding (Life of Fred, code stuff, Patty Paper geometry, selected MEP, eventually Russian Math). -- hope this helps; I know it is scattered, we're having a minor crisis here these days.

 

You can also get tons of extra problems, if printer paper is not an issue, via the MUS worksheet generators. I know that's a pro and not a con, but there you are!

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Math-U-See is a great program for some kids and an awful program for others.

 

It was a flaming disaster for my oldest. This program is NOT good for kids who memorize easily. If your kid is a fast memorizer, she can memorize her way through a lot of the program, fooling you and her that she really understands when she doesn't. This is what happened with my oldest and it took a full year to repair the damage. After working through several Miquon Math books, my oldest finally decided that she wasn't stupid.

 

OTOH, it is a good program for my dyslexic dd who is using it now for Algebra I. She does not memorize easily. Her dyslexia makes a lot of things that other kids memorize easily a real challenge for her. She didn't get the days of the week until she was 8yo. She still can't consistently get alphabetical order beyond G.

 

This dd needs the structure of a program like MUS to be able to make progress.

 

My dd can't stand Steve Demme, so I don't use the dvds. I just teach her from the teacher book and then we work through the A sheet for the lesson together and then she works through the other worksheets. We work in two 20-minute time-segments each day. She just can't focus on math for longer than that at one time.

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Well you asked what we liked about it :tongue_smilie:

 

I like that the lessons are relatively short. Watching the DVD usually takes less than 5 minutes.

 

I like that it goes all the way through high school. So long as it keeps working for us, I plan on using it. I had contacted Marie from MM to see if she planned on doing secondary levels; she said no, she recommends using textbooks for the higher grades. That automatically disqualified MM for me. I can't understand a darn thing in math textbooks, I wouldn't expect Pigby to without a teacher who could explain things to him.

 

I like the way MUS teaches place value. I think it's easy enough to understand.

 

I love the use of the blocks. I think it helps Pigby understand things more.

 

Things I dislike:

 

The gosh dang dong darn #10 blocks. Pigby seems to think they are toys :glare: and was constantly filching them. I finally had to keep them out of reach, which is a big pain to get them out and put them away all the time. :lol: I know, so hard.

 

We are only in Alpha lesson 6 and on EACH PAGE!!! Pigby was supposed to fill in the numbers 0-100. Not only does he get bored around 23, but he thinks his hand is going to fall off. I finally just let him start counting while I laid the blocks out as we went.

 

So there you go, an honest opinion from a seasoned veteran :tongue_smilie:

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Besides the price, that is. :tongue_smilie: I'm specifically interested in the explanations of concepts -- are the explanations more confusing/complicated than they need to be? Are there too many "tricks" or convoluted step to do something that could be done more simply?

 

What do you like about MUS?

 

What do you dislike about it?

 

I like MUS for reasons mostly already mentioned. I cannot give you a reason not to get it--but it is probably the very best program for some children and not the best for others. I initially got it because it was supposed to be good in case of dyslexia (many programs have too much reading to do, or are laid out on page in ways that are hard for dyslexic children), but I have been happy with it far beyond that aspect.

 

Sometimes I do think there are things that can be done more simply, or in a better way for my child, but when those arise, I simply teach them as I wish. I don't get hung up on what the program does, and I've found it easy to tweak in this regard. I can just say "skip the ____ problems" for example. Or I can show how to multiply with carrying in the usual way. Or I can show averages in a way that I think will make sense to my child, or cut out paper instead of using blocks to show how the area of a triangle works (so as to end up with a true triangle, not a jagged edge figure as happens with blocks). I have not found any of this a problem and the strengths I think far outweigh the negatives.

 

Also, btw, I do not think the word problems in Singapore Math that we have as a supplement are really more challenging than what we get in MUS--though the bar diagram system for solutions is an added method to have in one's toolbox. I add that bec. there seems to be a thought that SM is really "mathy" compared to everything else. MUS seems plenty mathy, and especially well suited to moving ahead at a child's own rate.

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I like the blocks, we kept the blocks.

 

My daughter was doing math without understanding what she was doing at a deep level.

 

We switched to Singapore and she is doing much better with math as well as truly understanding what she's learning. Her ITBS scores when up 25% the first year after the switch and another 25% the next year.

 

My son gets math, it might be OK with him, but I really like how Singapore teaches so I'm sticking with it for both of them.

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We love Math U See!! It is awesome! You can do Math with any curriculum but if you want Math explained to your kids at even the most basic levels like kindergarten/1st grade, then you should definitely try Math U See. Yes, sometimes it offers several different ways to solve the same problem, don't we want & need choices? Our children don't all learn the same way. Last week we skipped a lesson in Epsilon because my daughter just got the lesson before it & I didn't want want to confuse her with the second strategy. I recognized the fact that Math U See offered the lesson in case she didn't get it & needed a different approach. And as a teacher and a parent I knew she did not need the extra lesson. So we skipped it. Yes, Math U See offers lessons in sequential steps. If your child advances quickly as kids often do, it would be appropriate for them to skip a few lessons, wouldn't it? As a parent, and their teacher, wouldn't you just know that you could skip lessons your child doesn't need? On the other hand, wouldn't you be so frustrated if your child was in a school that wouldn't allow them to skip or test out of a chapter because they already knew it?

So my point is that you take everything for what it's worth. Don't criticize math u see because it offers extra explanations that your child may not need, it is a wonderful program that explains every step in a such a way that we have never had to repeat a dvd lesson because my kids didn't get it the first time.

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Besides the price, that is. :tongue_smilie: I'm specifically interested in the explanations of concepts -- are the explanations more confusing/complicated than they need to be? Are there too many "tricks" or convoluted step to do something that could be done more simply?

 

What do you like about MUS?

 

What do you dislike about it?

 

Yes, I do feel the explanations are more confusing and complicated than they need to be, especially around lesson 20 or so of Gamma with two digit multiplication. While interesting to me, someone who has been multiplying for decades, it was terribly confusing to my dc. The problem is, by the time you get to Gamma and realize it (or worse.... trudge through continue on to Delta and get hit with nothing but long division on the page, again, around lesson 20), you have a 3rd (or 4th) grader who is completely unprepared to change to another math program because MUS's scope and sequence is so different from most other programs....

 

Which brings me to another thing I don't like, its scope and sequence. I didn't like that there was a whole host of math topics my dc were not exposed to that most other math programs would have taught.

 

I also didn't like that the DVD would present more than one way to do something or think about something. In my experience, it's better to learn one way, practice it, understand it, and then talk about other ways of seeing the problem/concept. I realize I was to watch the DVD first or with the child, but it was frustrating to me that just watching it set up dc for confusion (some lessons, not all).

 

And then, we had to do something else for added drill. I really like a math program that has everything we need in one program. I have 5 children. I don't have time to use multiple programs with all of them.

 

Which brings me to another point - mastery vs. spiral. I have yet to have a child who was hurt by the review they've been getting in a more spiral type program. One of my dc is definitely more mathy than the rest and he is doing great in a spiral math program. For my less mathy children a spiral math program has been the difference between math success and math failure. I'm trying to say it works well for either type of student.

 

The other frustration of a mastery program like MUS is that the beginning of each level is SO easy and the end is so teeth-pulling (Delta - nothing but long division on the page- really?) Though this is an exaggeration, it's like you go back to a 1st grade level at the beginning of the year and try to make it to a 5th or 6th grade level by the end of the year in whatever the year's topic is. Why not just do division appropriate for beginners in 3rd grade, increase the difficulty in 4th grade, moreso in 5th grade, etc.

 

Personally I feel using MUS 2/3rds through Delta was the biggest educational mistake I made with my oldest.

 

I haven't (yet) couched all this is in apologetic terms (i.e. I know it works for some people, blah, blah, blah) because you've had plenty of responses from people who like it. I wanted to give you a different point of view (the one you asked for :D).

 

Lastly, I know this is thinking is counter to many here who love a conceptual math approach, but imho, sometimes it is best to learn how to do a problem, do it so many times that it becomes easy, and then see the concept behind it afterwards.

 

I may have left something out, but that's the gist of my feelings about MUS.

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Yes, I do feel the explanations are more confusing and complicated than they need to be, especially around lesson 20 or so of Gamma with two digit multiplication. While interesting to me, someone who has been multiplying for decades, it was terribly confusing to my dc. The problem is, by the time you get to Gamma and realize it (or worse.... trudge through continue on to Delta and get hit with nothing but long division on the page, again, around lesson 20), you have a 3rd (or 4th) grader who is completely unprepared to change to another math program because MUS's scope and sequence is so different from most other programs....

 

Which brings me to another thing I don't like, its scope and sequence. I didn't like that there was a whole host of math topics my dc were not exposed to that most other math programs would have taught.

 

I also didn't like that the DVD would present more than one way to do something or think about something. In my experience, it's better to learn one way, practice it, understand it, and then talk about other ways of seeing the problem/concept. I realize I was to watch the DVD first or with the child, but it was frustrating to me that just watching it set up dc for confusion (some lessons, not all).

 

And then, we had to do something else for added drill. I really like a math program that has everything we need in one program. I have 5 children. I don't have time to use multiple programs with all of them.

 

Which brings me to another point - mastery vs. spiral. I have yet to have a child who was hurt by the review they've been getting in a more spiral type program. One of my dc is definitely more mathy than the rest and he is doing great in a spiral math program. For my less mathy children a spiral math program has been the difference between math success and math failure. I'm trying to say it works well for either type of student.

 

The other frustration of a mastery program like MUS is that the beginning of each level is SO easy and the end is so teeth-pulling (Delta - nothing but long division on the page- really?) Though this is an exaggeration, it's like you go back to a 1st grade level at the beginning of the year and try to make it to a 5th or 6th grade level by the end of the year in whatever the year's topic is. Why not just do division appropriate for beginners in 3rd grade, increase the difficulty in 4th grade, moreso in 5th grade, etc.

 

Personally I feel using MUS 2/3rds through Delta was the biggest educational mistake I made with my oldest.

 

I haven't (yet) couched all this is in apologetic terms (i.e. I know it works for some people, blah, blah, blah) because you've had plenty of responses from people who like it. I wanted to give you a different point of view (the one you asked for :D).

 

Lastly, I know this is thinking is counter to many here who love a conceptual math approach, but imho, sometimes it is best to learn how to do a problem, do it so many times that it becomes easy, and then see the concept behind it afterwards.

 

I may have left something out, but that's the gist of my feelings about MUS.

 

Sounds like it's been a while since you did MUS? Several of the concerns you mentioned have been fixed in the new editions, all the way through the program.

 

"Nothing but long division on the page...." Well, keep in mind that MUS is a mastery style program. Overall it sounds like the spiral method is a better fit for you. As for me, I wish we had switched to a mastery program a loonnggggg time ago. :001_smile: My kids and I both just need to take TIME to learn a difficult concept before we can move on. The nice thing about a mastery program, though, is that if one DOES get it, they CAN move on.

 

(I know there are benefits to the spiral or incremental method as well, and they work great for some people. But not our family. This coming from someone who at one time was a defender of Saxon. :D )

 

To the OP.... I agree with many of the *likes* in this thread, and I also wanted to mention that MUS gradually ceases using the blocks by the time you get to high school. I know that supposed "dependency" on the blocks is a concern for some people, but really if the student can teach the concept back to YOU, then he or she is obviously getting it and may or may not need to use the blocks after the initial teaching lesson each week. Just make sure he or she can explain what they're doing in their own words... and WHY. This is a key component of MUS (any math program, really) to show understanding vs. just memorizing. I think that memorizing happens naturally in MUS, as the student practices day in and day out and one concept builds upon another, because she's using all her senses in the process and therefore "recognizing" what needs to be done when. IOW, it becomes second nature. At least that's the goal. There's definitely a place for memorizing, but what I'm saying that it happens over time in MUS.

 

Each level of MUS after a certain point also has an Honors option which provides more word problems, and in Geometry, more proofs. I forget where that begins, but I know it's there in Pre-Algebra. This is something to keep in mind as you're deciding for the elementary level. Take a look at the demo videos for the upper levels and see if *you* understand them. (And thus, the title Math-U-See. :lol:)

 

MUS also offers online classes for anyone who prefers that option. There are a lot of free helps on the website, too, including online drill for the math facts.

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Yes, I do feel the explanations are more confusing and complicated than they need to be, especially around lesson 20 or so of Gamma with two digit multiplication. While interesting to me, someone who has been multiplying for decades, it was terribly confusing to my dc. The problem is, by the time you get to Gamma and realize it (or worse.... trudge through continue on to Delta and get hit with nothing but long division on the page, again, around lesson 20), you have a 3rd (or 4th) grader who is completely unprepared to change to another math program because MUS's scope and sequence is so different from most other programs....

 

Which brings me to another point - mastery vs. spiral. I have yet to have a child who was hurt by the review they've been getting in a more spiral type program. One of my dc is definitely more mathy than the rest and he is doing great in a spiral math program. For my less mathy children a spiral math program has been the difference between math success and math failure. I'm trying to say it works well for either type of student.

 

I haven't (yet) couched all this is in apologetic terms (i.e. I know it works for some people, blah, blah, blah) because you've had plenty of responses from people who like it. I wanted to give you a different point of view (the one you asked for). Yeah! Yippee! Thank you! I'm trying so hard to walk away! :lol:

 

Lastly, I know this is thinking is counter to many here who love a conceptual math approach, but imho, sometimes it is best to learn how to do a problem, do it so many times that it becomes easy, and then see the concept behind it afterwards.

 

I may have left something out, but that's the gist of my feelings about MUS.

 

Thank you so much for your honest review of MUS. I'm sure it is a good fit for some, but you touched on all the reservations I have about it.

 

Does this mean you aren't doing Singapore? Or are you using something different for the twins?

 

Hi, TS. :seeya: Sigh. Well, we were doing Horizons Math 1 and Sarah was bored out of her mind about half way through. She is my cooperative, diligent child. IOW, she didn't complain. But one day I heard a soft sigh. From her, that's huge. Anyway, she said, "Mommy, all these lessons are the same. I'm still matching shapes to their names! That's PRESCHOOL stuff!" She was so right. I pulled out the last lesson (Lesson 160) and she whizzed through it perfectly. End of Horizons. I hated the TM, too.

 

I had Singapore PM/Standards lined up for all of them for 2nd & K, so we started in on that with Sarah. She enjoyed the lessons, and mentioned how "refreshing" it all was. :lol: But I kept thinking, "I'm going to hate teaching this, I'm going to hate teaching this." I don't know why, but I think Singapore is going to be like nails on a chalkboard for me. Sigh.

 

Rather than grow increasingly frustrated with Singapore, I decided to just have her finish up all of our English work for the year (a bit early), along with math fact drill and Kumon. When we finish our English work and math drill stuff, we'll have several weeks at the end where we can focus on math lessons -- either Math Mammoth, Singapore, or both. My goal will not be to get through a certain number of lessons or pages, but to find her level. She was so slowed down by Horizons, I honestly don't know her level. Horizons doesn't seem to have gotten her very far this year, but she did figure out carrying/borrowing (regrouping) on her own. I tried to teach it to her and she said, "Mommy, I know how to do that, I've already figured it out." And, you know what? She had. :001_huh:

 

And that's the reason I keep looking at MUS. We were frustrated with Horizon's spiral -- it felt as though we never knew if or when we had mastered anything, and it felt as though we were never really getting anything new. There seemed to be no new "meat" to a lesson, just review, review, review. We ended up doing most of each lesson orally.

 

Obviously, she was in the "wrong" level, but we had only moved up from Horizons Math K from the year before, so (IMO) the problem is with the program. It doesn't allow the student to move forward if she understands a concept, and so in that regard it felt like so much busy work to us.

 

I keep telling myself to take a DEEP BREATH, get to the point of resuming math lessons, and dive into the Singapore Math Way! :D

 

Ma'am, step away from the Math-U-See. Just step away. :gnorsi:

 

:001_unsure:

 

 

But then I read comments about how MUS allows the student to move up quickly to "where she is," instead of slogging through a spiral course. I would LOVE to just know where Sarah is in math, find her math groove, and make steady progress. MUS teaches operations in four discrete levels -- Addition (Alpha), Subtraction (Beta), Multiplication (Gamma), and Division (Delta). I think that if you have a student who needs to (a) master weak skills, or (b) move on from mastered skills, the NON-spiral approach would allow you to spend as much or as little time on a skill as was necessary to master it.

 

So I keep.... um, coming back to look at MUS.

 

Yup. I'm a tire kicker. :lol: (Or is that a tired kicker?)

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This is an idea that could save me some money (three children). What do you do, have the student write the answers/solutions in a notebook? :bigear:

 

We moved quickly through gamma & delta and it felt like a waste to write on the workbooks since we only use two or three a week. I usually scanned them and she wrote on the pdf's on the iPad. Sometimes she just wrote the answers on a piece of notebook paper. I gave the books to my SIL who has five kids when we were done. We're now in Epsilon and I've gotten lazy so we just write on the pages we use and are saving the others for her as extra practice sheets.

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On the issue of moving quickly I would say mus was perfect for us in that regard. The early lessons in gamma & delta are easier. We started a testing out approach where if dd said she understood the concept, could teach it back to me and seemed to get it I let her take the test and we moved on to the next lesson. Sometimes we did more than one lesson per day. We moved this fast until around lesson 15 or twenty.

 

I mentioned blocks earlier. Just to be clear, at this point dd plays with the blocks but doesn't need them to do her work. At the beginning of Epsilon she used them for some lessons because she just likes to play with them but she is able to do the problems with or without the blocks and with or without writing anything down in most cases. Long division was torturous but it was more about the level of sustained attention than not understanding the concept. She just flat didn't want to work on math problems long enough to get the answer. I reduced the number of problems on the condition she got them right and we made it through. I think she actually clapped when we started fractions because she was so happy to finish long division.

 

My experience with Saxon was similar and we didn't like Singapore either. Every once in a while I get caught up in all the Singapore talk and buy a workbook. So far everything we've learned in mus has translated in to her ability to work problems in other programs, including the Singapore cwp and the beast academy assessment.

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What I liked:

 

1. Place value (I still explain things in terms of decimal street and only nine of each kind can fit in each building.)

2. The blocks

 

What I/my kids didn't like:

1. A whole page/book on one topic. My second dd began crying at every math lesson because it was yet another page of +8!

2. The word problems were far too easy.

3. The multi digit multiplication was really confusing (as someone else mentioned).

 

After giving MUS a go for a few years, we switched. My second dd switched directly to CLE and loved it right away. She still uses it and is doing very well. My oldest switched (after we tried a few different things) to Math Mammoth. I started her in level 1 and accelerated her until she needed to slow down. After part of MM4, she switched to CLE 500. Because we wanted to accelerate, she did all of the new parts of each lesson with parts of the review. We are halfway through 600, still accelerating. By the end of this school year (6th grade), she will be on grade level. Her math comprehension has improved so much.

 

My younger kids either use CLE or Math Mammoth. I don't expect to use MUS ever again.

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We use it... the one thing that absolutely drive me crazy is my children have their own portable DVD players and are CONSTANTLY miss placing the DVDs... I am talking CON STANT LY! Right now our Delta is on the lamb. I have even cleaned my son's entire room with him, while looking for it!

 

Also, there are parts where I feel what my children are doing is a bit of a waste. Two examples:

 

One was already discussed writing the numbers over and over in three day time period. Yes, this is good practice, but do it at a different point, break it up so the child does not get tired and know why you are having them write all these numbers down.

 

The other is that my DS has a lot of math he does in his head, he understands many math concepts from our daily lives. So, when he is introduced to a new idea with Steve my solution is to have him do page D, if he can do those problems without any issue I do not have him do the pages that focus on those problems.

 

I suspect I should really just speed him through Delta, but I want him to watch all the lessons and WELL... back to my main problem... miss placed DVD!!!!

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we tried MUS. Ididn't work for us at all. My girls weren't interested in STeve Deme teaching them. To many 'tricks' for my 2nd daughter. I was waiting for her head to explode. Didn't care for how they taught the teens as "eleventy" It took me forever to get that out of my daughter's head to teach the numbers properly.

 

If you live in a state where standardized testing has to be done, well it doesn't follow scope and sequence , not sure if this has changed at all but it sure didn't when we were doing it as your learning all of one concept at a time . Like Alpha was all adding and subtracting as well as Delta, Gamma was all multiplication and so forth.

 

Its really pricey , at least the manipulatives are. You HAVE to have them to do the math, you can't substitute if money is an issue.

 

I say if you have a kid that likes math tricks to learn math , and you don't have to do standardized testing. Then MUS shouldn't be to much of a problem to use.

But if you have a child that looks like their head is going to explode if you taught her more than 1+1=2 Then Math will not be so fun. If your state requires standardized testing then it may not line up and show that he is behind and not where he should be. Not that it matters to us as parents as any math program that works for our kids will eventually get them to where they need to go. But it won't show in the testing.

 

Now unless things have dramatically changed for MUS that was our experience with it.

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I felt so wise when I could tell people we used the critically acclaimed Singapore math. (Until I realized it was so blessed hard for my math challenged child).

 

We've done much better with math programs with dumb monikers--Math-U-See!! Math Mammoth!! Life of Fred!!

This was my situation too, and then it backfired on me when ds just didn't do well with Singapore at all. Now I throw out all sorts of different curriculum with goofy names lol.

 

It is true that MUS does not do well for standardized testing. On the other hand, standardized testing covers all different areas, including areas that kids haven't learned yet. MUS does it in a more logical succession and the kids will eventually get to know all areas covered, just not on the same scope and sequence the tests do. If you wanted to do MUS, you could easily supplement with extra practice on areas that will be on the test...with worksheets, etc.

Edited by thefragile7393
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Just wanted to quickly say....

 

We lived in a test that does standardized testing and most of our friends used MUS. Nobody every had a problem.

 

As for the same thing being on each page. I don't necessarily see that to be true. For our lesson yesterday, we had multiplication, division, area of triangle and parrallelogram, word problems, and averages (all in one lesson-Delta 11E, for example).

 

If you feel that MUS is not teaching a broad enough scope & sequence, it's very easy to add in a Kumon specific workbook, or for us, we added in CLE.

 

I've strayed from MUS, and always go back. I just wanted to give some positive feedback.

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I had Singapore PM/Standards lined up for all of them for 2nd & K, so we started in on that with Sarah. She enjoyed the lessons, and mentioned how "refreshing" it all was. :lol: But I kept thinking, "I'm going to hate teaching this, I'm going to hate teaching this." I don't know why, but I think Singapore is going to be like nails on a chalkboard for me. Sigh.

 

Try to figure out what exactly you will hate teaching about it? Is it the multiple books? Or is it the method being taught? That might help with suggestions for the right program.

 

I resisted Singapore for a long time because of the multiple books. Now I'm using it, and while I'd still prefer less books, I AM liking it, and we both enjoy it much more. It doesn't drill and kill (DS doesn't need that), it doesn't take itty bitty incremental steps (DS doesn't need that either), and they don't have too much on the page. Plus they have fun puzzles and such sometimes. For example, in one of the IPs for multiplication (probably grade 2?), they had spider webs for filling out multiplication tables. MM had them do a regular table. Same math being done - same exact process. But spider webs are more fun than boring old tables. :tongue_smilie:

 

When we finish our English work and math drill stuff, we'll have several weeks at the end where we can focus on math lessons -- either Math Mammoth, Singapore, or both.

 

Math Mammoth is what we used to accelerate to "where he was". It was perfect for that, being cheap, yet thorough. :) DS liked it ok. He was coming from Saxon 1, so at first, he LOVED it. Eventually, he was bored of it. We switched to Singapore at that point. He won't be using Singapore long enough to get bored like that, so it all works out. :)

 

One thing about MUS that I know wouldn't work for DS is that it uses manipulatives. He is not a manipulatives kind of kid. He learns better from pictorial examples. Manipulatives distract him too much, and he is an abstract thinker anyway.

 

So since you have MM already, I'd suggest giving that a try to find out "where she is", and then from there, figure out what you want to teach from long term (er... the rest of elementary math... might not be that "long" :D).

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As for the same thing being on each page. I don't necessarily see that to be true. For our lesson yesterday, we had multiplication, division, area of triangle and parrallelogram, word problems, and averages (all in one lesson-Delta 11E, for example).

 

 

Right. You have the Lesson Practice pages which are problems from JUST that lesson. Then you have Systematic Review pages as described in the above quote. Then you have a test. If your student doesn't need as much practice as is offered, skip it. You can choose either the Lesson Practice or System Review pages in this case. But a student may fly through several weeks of lessons, and then hit a lesson where he does need more practice. That's why I love having it available.

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Its really pricey , at least the manipulatives are. You HAVE to have them to do the math, you can't substitute if money is an issue.

 

MUS is comparable to Saxon in cost, especially if you're buying extra "help" to go along with the Saxon (i.e., Saxon Teacher, Dive CD, Art Reed). Each set of manipulatives, used at different phases throughout the program, are a one-time purchase used over several years. These are gradually phased out the student gets to high school, but in the meantime, they can continue to be used with younger children who are also using MUS. I have many resources and "tools" that I've bought like that over the years.

 

Now unless things have dramatically changed for MUS that was our experience with it.

 

The current MUS is quite different from the "classic". I had used the old classic edition at one point, too. I like the new much better.

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(I haven't read all of the replies yet.)

 

Besides the price, that is. :tongue_smilie: I'm specifically interested in the explanations of concepts -- are the explanations more confusing/complicated than they need to be? Are there too many "tricks" or convoluted step to do something that could be done more simply?

 

What do you like about MUS?

 

Sorry but we like MUS around here, too. ;) With my oldest DD, we have completed Beta through Delta. Here are the reasons we like it:

 

1. It was the only math curriculum my oldest DD didn't cry over or completely confuse her. We tried MM, BJU, and another which I don't remember now (but it brightly colored and "busy" in layout). There are no clowns (BJU) or busy graphics. It is simple and to the point. It appeals to my ADHD DD.

 

2. Mr. Demme teaches the concepts well. My oldest understands WHY you do something. Up until recently (lesson 20 of Delta), she liked watching him and he somehow could explain the same thing I would explain, but she would "get it" with him.

 

3. It is a mastery program. For example, in Gamma, they learn the ins and outs of multiplication like nobody's business.

 

4. It is easy to accelerate MUS due to the way the worksheets are laid out. The first 3 cover the concept, the last 3 cover the concept and provide review for previous lessons learned. Because I have been "speeding" up DD's lessons to get her to "grade level" math, we can easily accelerate the work without worry of skipping something valuable. We generally do Worksheets A, B, D, E (2 concept practice and 2 review) and then take the Test. If she scores well on the test, we move on. If not, we have C and F to use to continue reviewing.

 

5. Quite frankly, my DD hates using the manipulatives. It hasn't hurt us. She watches Mr. Demme use them in the video so she gets the visual aspect of the manipulatives but she doesn't use them in practice. Hasn't hurt her understanding of math.

 

6. We met with a degreed high school teacher who will be DD's tutor because I thought she was pretty far behind in math. I wanted her a good track for high school. He looked at our curriculum (MUS Delta TE) and watched her work a bit. He was impressed. He said he felt she was ready for Pre-Alg/Algebra now. We may a few areas to review (word problems/meaurements) and cover (Epsilon's fractions, Zeta's decimals) but he felt she was not as far behind as we originally thought. He will give her pre-test for pre-alg/alg next week to gauge her level more accurately. He was impressed with her understanding of math, though. It was encouraging to hear. :D

 

What do you dislike about it?

 

In all fairness, I'll add the things that I don't like (minor stuff, really):

 

- Like another pp noted, the video is not high quality. Not a big deal for me. It is not poor either IMO.

 

- I feel like there are a few small areas that DD is not well grounded in such as measurements and word problems. They do cover these topics throughout the books, but not enough practice IMO. There are about 3-4 word problems on every worksheet. But they are simple problems compared to SM.

 

- We didn't have a problem with how any of the concepts were introduced and taught until Delta Lesson 17 or so. He teaches long division using place value. *I* understood what Mr. Demme was trying to teach but it completely confused my DD. It was the first time she became so utterly frustrated. I ended up teaching her the way I learned and she understood immediately. He also teaches around this lesson "upside down" multiplication as a method to check your division. Again, while DD got the concept, we generally skipped all of the practice problems related to this topic. I had her check her division with regular multiplication.

 

- The Teacher's Editions are laid out well, but I wished they included some alternative games or teaching or something. (This is what I like about SM's HIGs.)

 

Even with all that, I will say MUS has been a blessing for my oldest. While she is not a mathy student, she can do the math and understand what she is doing.

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Its really pricey , at least the manipulatives are. You HAVE to have them to do the math, you can't substitute if money is an issue.

 

I disagree. We have a complete set of blocks but my oldest has used the blocks since Beta. She gets along just fine. Plus, you can find blocks for sell cheaply on MUS's for sale yahoo group. ;)

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RE--ordering from MUS

The summer ordering frenzy affects how fast materials will get to you. Past troubles (repeated) with their website also make me wary. Let's hope it is all straightened out for this summer's ordering bonanza. :001_smile: Don't wait until the last minute to order your materials......

 

I did get good customer service when a DVD arrived unplayable.

 

MUS does not have sales, so don't worry about wasting time looking for coupon codes or gimmicks.

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What I liked:

 

1. Place value (I still explain things in terms of decimal street and only nine of each kind can fit in each building.)

2. The blocks

 

What I/my kids didn't like:

1. A whole page/book on one topic. My second dd began crying at every math lesson because it was yet another page of +8!

2. The word problems were far too easy.

3. The multi digit multiplication was really confusing (as someone else mentioned).

 

 

 

With MUS you aren't supposed to do all of the workbook pages unless the child hasn't mastered the concept. If the child can instantly answer all +8s, you move to the next lesson. The teacher's manual makes it clear that the last thing this program is designed for is drill and kill. Dd1 went through alpha in 3 weeks because she showed mastery of addition instantly and then moved through subtraction quickly.

 

I look to combine MUS and Beast Academy next year. I'm not ready to abandon something that's working, but I want dd1's mind to be challenged.

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With MUS you aren't supposed to do all of the workbook pages unless the child hasn't mastered the concept. If the child can instantly answer all +8s, you move to the next lesson. The teacher's manual makes it clear that the last thing this program is designed for is drill and kill. Dd1 went through alpha in 3 weeks because she showed mastery of addition instantly and then moved through subtraction quickly.

 

I look to combine MUS and Beast Academy next year. I'm not ready to abandon something that's working, but I want dd1's mind to be challenged.

 

I realize that. She rarely did more than 1-2 pages per lesson. What she hated was a lesson of +9, then a lesson of +8, then a lesson of +5, etc. She hated, hated, hated the lack of variety.

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I realize that. She rarely did more than 1-2 pages per lesson. What she hated was a lesson of +9, then a lesson of +8, then a lesson of +5, etc. She hated, hated, hated the lack of variety.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't go back to see which level you were talking about. Do you mean with the first page of the lesson? I ask because there IS variety with the pages following the first page. Meaning after lesson A. Maybe she was frustrated because she "rarely did more than 1-2 pages per lesson". If you move past the intro lesson, there will be review. I'm pretty sure you have decided not to use MUS, but wanted to share for others who are considering. HTH.

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My daughter did through Epsilon. She hated it. Used to regularly beg me to find something better. She ran through it easily. She memorizes easily. But, she didn't understand the math. At all. That only became apparent when we switched away from MUS. The reason we finally switched? I realized she had no idea what the metric system was and barely had a grasp of measurement in general.

 

My son has dyslexia, dysgraphia, and short term memory problems and MUS was a complete and total disaster for him from the start. He has a lot of trouble memorizing so MUS was just so demoralizing to him. He couldn't even successfully do +2 without needing extra pages. He felt like he'd never learn anything in math. A spiral program works so much better for him because he gets other chances to figure things out and gets to do things that he's more successful at in among the harder stuff.

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I'm sorry, I didn't go back to see which level you were talking about. Do you mean with the first page of the lesson? I ask because there IS variety with the pages following the first page. Meaning after lesson A. Maybe she was frustrated because she "rarely did more than 1-2 pages per lesson". If you move past the intro lesson, there will be review. I'm pretty sure you have decided not to use MUS, but wanted to share for others who are considering. HTH.

 

First three pages of a lesson are the new fact. Second three pages are review. She'd do one of the first pages and one of the review pages. There is NOT a lot of variety in MUS. I am very familiar with how the program is formatted and how it is supposed to be used. It was an utter flop for my kids, which is why I posted on this thread where the OP is asking why NOT to use MUS. :)

 

I can't imagine using MUS again in the future. I vastly prefer Math Mammoth and CLE, as do my children. :)

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First three pages of a lesson are the new fact. Second three pages are review. She'd do one of the first pages and one of the review pages. There is NOT a lot of variety in MUS. I am very familiar with how the program is formatted and how it is supposed to be used. It was an utter flop for my kids, which is why I posted on this thread where the OP is asking why NOT to use MUS. :)

 

I can't imagine using MUS again in the future. I vastly prefer Math Mammoth and CLE, as do my children. :)

 

The pp meant that there's variety in how the new concept is presented on the back side of the first three pages. Then the following three pages are Systematic Review, mixing up both the new and several old concepts. If a student gets the new concept easily, they could almost go straight to a Systematic Review page, perhaps take the test, and move on.

 

At any rate, it sounds like your family much prefers a spiral program, which is great that you know that! But it's good for other readers to have an accurate description of how the pages are laid out, especially when one person says "there's not enough" and another person says "there's too much" -- BOTH of which I've seen in this thread. :tongue_smilie:

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My daughter did through Epsilon. She hated it. Used to regularly beg me to find something better. She ran through it easily. She memorizes easily. But, she didn't understand the math. At all. That only became apparent when we switched away from MUS. The reason we finally switched? I realized she had no idea what the metric system was and barely had a grasp of measurement in general.

 

My son has dyslexia, dysgraphia, and short term memory problems and MUS was a complete and total disaster for him from the start. He has a lot of trouble memorizing so MUS was just so demoralizing to him. He couldn't even successfully do +2 without needing extra pages. He felt like he'd never learn anything in math. A spiral program works so much better for him because he gets other chances to figure things out and gets to do things that he's more successful at in among the harder stuff.

 

Were they doing the program pretty independently, then?

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Hi, TS. :seeya: Sigh. Well, we were doing Horizons Math 1 and Sarah was bored out of her mind about half way through. She is my cooperative, diligent child. IOW, she didn't complain. But one day I heard a soft sigh. From her, that's huge. Anyway, she said, "Mommy, all these lessons are the same. I'm still matching shapes to their names! That's PRESCHOOL stuff!" She was so right. I pulled out the last lesson (Lesson 160) and she whizzed through it perfectly. End of Horizons. I hated the TM, too.

 

There is an Alpha Omega Publishing Factory within an hour of me (Well, it should be less than an hour. I drove right through the town it was in and ended up in Minnesota because I thought I hadn't reached the right town. I had to call A at work and have him direct me to the place. He patiently looked up where I was on google maps. He patiently directed me. He was not patient at all when I told him he couldn't be right because I'd already been in this town. But that is another story.:tongue_smilie:) The factory was having a "garage sale." I got multiple copies of the Horizons workbooks for $1.00 each. I got some other things, too, like 10 cent four inch binders.:coolgleamA: I started my little guy on the K book when he was 3 or 4. I wasn't terribly interested in doing school with him so we didn't do much. I thought I'd have the kids work through them in the summer, but I prefer other things I've found so I'm giving the Horizons books to my sister. I can usually find something I like about every curric. but I just couldn't get into Horizons.

 

I had Singapore PM/Standards lined up for all of them for 2nd & K, so we started in on that with Sarah. She enjoyed the lessons, and mentioned how "refreshing" it all was. :lol: But I kept thinking, "I'm going to hate teaching this, I'm going to hate teaching this." I don't know why, but I think Singapore is going to be like nails on a chalkboard for me. Sigh.

 

My boys like the Singapore they've done. It is so much easier than the Saxon since we use Saxon one level ahead. The workbook pages are so much faster to do than Saxon. It is an adjustment to present the information a different way. C prefers using the standard algorithm, too. I say, "Look, Buddy, you can add two to both numbers and it will be much easier to subtract that way." He stares at me a good thirty seconds. "Or, Mom, I could just do it this way (pointing at the problem) in. my. head."

 

Rather than grow increasingly frustrated with Singapore, I decided to just have her finish up all of our English work for the year (a bit early), along with math fact drill and Kumon. When we finish our English work and math drill stuff, we'll have several weeks at the end where we can focus on math lessons -- either Math Mammoth, Singapore, or both. My goal will not be to get through a certain number of lessons or pages, but to find her level. She was so slowed down by Horizons, I honestly don't know her level. Horizons doesn't seem to have gotten her very far this year, but she did figure out carrying/borrowing (regrouping) on her own. I tried to teach it to her and she said, "Mommy, I know how to do that, I've already figured it out." And, you know what? She had. :001_huh:

 

I think your girls are very smart in general. I know you are looking for Sarah right now. Are you trying to find something that will work for all three of them? I've never used Khan Academy with the kids, but I heard they have a badge system. I'm pretty sure it would keep track of what they have mastered and what needs more work. Would something like that help you figure out what level she is working on?

 

But then I read comments about how MUS allows the student to move up quickly to "where she is," instead of slogging through a spiral course. I would LOVE to just know where Sarah is in math, find her math groove, and make steady progress. MUS teaches operations in four discrete levels -- Addition (Alpha), Subtraction (Beta), Multiplication (Gamma), and Division (Delta). I think that if you have a student who needs to (a) master weak skills, or (b) move on from mastered skills, the NON-spiral approach would allow you to spend as much or as little time on a skill as was necessary to master it.

 

So I keep.... um, coming back to look at MUS.

 

Yup. I'm a tire kicker. :lol: (Or is that a tired kicker?)

 

Have you looked into MEP? I've only used just a tiny little bit, but it really requires kids to think. Since it is free, you could give her bits and pieces of each level until you think she fits.

Edited by Meriwether
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10 cents for 4 inch binders? :001_huh: Remarkable. Wow.

 

I've looked at MEP (a few years back), printed out a bit, we did it. I will take another look at it, though. I like your idea of using Khan Academy to "place" S. Hmmm.... good idea!

 

About Horizons Math: When I looked back at what we did for K with S, I think the Kumon really did most of the teaching, but Horizons K was still worth doing. OTOH, Horizons 1 was a waste of time about half way through the year. I wish I had started something else for 1st grade, but live and learn.

 

Yes, I am looking for something for all three for the long haul (at least a few years without having to move around between programs). If I thought spiral would work for us, I'd probably try Saxon. Although, I have to admit, I've seen it closely on different levels and it put me to sleep. :lol:

 

Thanks for the encouragement, Meriwether. We will find what we're looking for, I'm sure.

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Why NOT to buy MUS...

 

If you have an accelerated math student who can't get enough, they won't be well-prepared for AoPS.

 

 

DD12 will use MUS all the way through.

DS10 used MUS through algebra then switched to AoPS.

DS5 and DD2 will use MUS at least through Zeta or Prealgebra.

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The pp meant that there's variety in how the new concept is presented on the back side of the first three pages. Then the following three pages are Systematic Review, mixing up both the new and several old concepts. If a student gets the new concept easily, they could almost go straight to a Systematic Review page, perhaps take the test, and move on.

 

My dd1 went through Alpha doing only a systematic review page for all of the addition lessons. I keep forgetting there are tests. :001_smile:

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But then I read comments about how MUS allows the student to move up quickly to "where she is," instead of slogging through a spiral course. I would LOVE to just know where Sarah is in math, find her math groove, and make steady progress. MUS teaches operations in four discrete levels -- Addition (Alpha), Subtraction (Beta), Multiplication (Gamma), and Division (Delta). I think that if you have a student who needs to (a) master weak skills, or (b) move on from mastered skills, the NON-spiral approach would allow you to spend as much or as little time on a skill as was necessary to master it.

 

So I keep.... um, coming back to look at MUS.

 

Yup. I'm a tire kicker. :lol: (Or is that a tired kicker?)

 

As I had posted before, MUS is a wonderful ft for some children, but not for all.

 

You may well be describing a situation where it would be a very good fit for your child however. In addition to being able to move on when something is understood, my son also likes that when he knows something like say how to multiply, he really does know that. It doesn't end up where he thinks he knows multiplying, but only if the problem happens to be one carefully chosen to, say, not require carrying.

 

Also we like having more than one possible way to do problems presented...and this is our reason for also using some SM. I think that is more confusing perhaps to less mathy kids. Dunno. One of teachers in school said a good teacher can explain things one way so most kids get it. An excellent teacher can explain it many ways, so that nearly every child can get it. ... But I guess with MUS that means either the child has to be able to filter ones that don't work as well for him/her, or the parent does.

 

BTW, I think that beta has both adding and subtracting. You could check, but I don't think you would have to do alpha.

 

And, if your daughter is where she sounds like she is, the issue of being out of kilter to tests and so on for MUS is probably not an issue. We will be done with division in time for the test level that requires that, and I expect done with fractions and decimals levels both by the time for that testing level. It could be the same for you.

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We started with MUS. I had a preschooler in the Primary book all the way up to my oldest in Epsilon. I based my decision to switch to MM on my oldest. He's a pretty mathy kid and MUS was boring him to tears. He started hating math and that's not him. So, I moved everyone to MM and that's what we've been using for the past couple years.

 

The reasons I switched were... MUS seemed to only have one kind of problem for each lesson. Pages and pages of the same type of problems, no variety in how the problems are presented. The word problems did not make my son think. He could basically answer the word problem by plugging numbers into a formula. My kids did love the videos and cried when I told them there wouldn't be any more videos!

 

Now, I have to admit I'm probably going back to MUS for my dd. She is NOT mathy and hates MM. She also cannot be independent with it. She's a tactile learner. She would do better with not having to figure out how to do each section of the page. She would do much better just being able to master the concept by doing the same kind of problem over and over. So... we are going to give the switch back a try. I'm also going to have her work through LOF as I think it will fit her well and will provide a bit of the things that I think are missing from MUS. I'm also going to have my older son do MUS Algebra for his pre-algebra year.

 

Not sure that helps... probably makes things worse! Basically, if your child is mathy I think he/she may be bored. MM has worked much better for my mathy boys.

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Not sure that helps... probably makes things worse! Basically, if your child is mathy I think he/she may be bored. MM has worked much better for my mathy boys.

 

Thank you, and thanks to everyone who offered feedback. I'm still undecided, surprise, surprise. :D

 

What we'll do, probably, is something like this:

 

  • Give the Singapore PM/Standards we already have an honest try. Set aside enough time each day to take into account our learning curve for how to do a Singapore lesson. Who knows? I may like teaching it, after all. If I see my student grow, it's worth doing.

 

  • Work through some Khan Academy. I really, really like this idea for this student. It fits who she is (and we do next to nothing on the computer). But, somehow, I can just see her taking to this way of learning. Anything independent and "limitless" appeals to her, it gets her excited to realize there is more. She is curious about how the world works. She likes more. Khan Academy could offer her more, beyond my limitations, and it comes with built in "rewards." Nice.

 

  • Work through the Math Mammoth we already have printed out, but quickly and orally (as much as possible). IOW, don't get bogged down with the paperwork. Go through the content that she knows to be certain she knows it, then use MM to find any gaps and where to slow down.

 

  • Maybe, after all of the above: Order one level of MUS, look it over, and if I don't like it, send it back for a full refund. I'd lose out on postage, but I'd get to see it first hand. Then I could put to rest this nagging feeling that I'm missing out on the "perfect" math fit for us. KWIM? :tongue_smilie: You know, the one that keeps you awake at night, "MUS, yes? MUS, no?" Over and over, until the alarm goes off. LOL. :D

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