GSMP Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Here's the deal.......We started homeschooling 4 years ago. Due to the nature of some of the issues our family has had to deal with schooling has been alot on the go, some textbook and some unschooling. We are required to test each year and the kids always blow the test out of the water. My daughter is testing college level for every subject but math (on grade level). The boys are the same..... Some of our schooling has had to be grab the books and leave the house so we can hide. You will understand in a minute.....or maybe not. We have an anonymous blog....this has been more for my husband to put down what has been happening to our family over the past 15 years and a way for him to document some of what has been going on in case we needed it. We had to go to Child Protective Services and talk with them about allegations made against us. We gave them a copy of some messages and a doctor's report and they were very kind and helpful. They were supportive on what we have been doing. They don't consider 10,11 year old doing laundry abuse. Learning basic house cleaning and life skills is what they considered it. There are people that just didn't get it. Our Pastor didn't get it until he heard the messages. Well...my husband has posted a few of them on YouTube. Names have been removed to protect the innocent and sane. I have this annoying habit of "gotta know"....I finally went out and listened to some of the messages that MIL left. I sat up all night beating myself up over what was being said. There might be a quark of truth...a grain or smaller than a grain...... I'm schooling my kids in fear......we have to leave the house when we know she is in town. The kids are somewhat fearful of her and quite frankly I am legitimately afraid of this person. I waffle back and forth about even wanting to homeschool. I love being with my kids. We have fun..... I have purposed to not go back and listen to the messages....but I have heard enough and the past year and a half have been bad enough that I am just not sure I want to even deal with it anymore. I know why we are homeschooling but homeschooling on the run sure has a different meaning in our house........ Need some bolstering I guess......I know I am new so no one here really has had a chance to get to know me.......I can share my blog and that will pretty much let you know what kind of person I am..... I guess I am just feeling overwhelmed and doubting.......If you would care to know then I will post the links....... Here are the messages I was referring to and they have a link so you can choose to go there or not.............. http://www.youtube.com/mybipolarmother http://gingerporter.wordpress.com/ Okay....I got that out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I can't help but wonder why you guys don't move far, far away? Don't leave a forwarding address. And, to keep in touch with his Dad, I would just buy a disposable cell phone, use it once and then get a new one. Seriously, that is what I would do, except I would get it in an area code that is not the same as yours. I should have added, that I'm so very sorry that you guys are having to go through this. How awful it must be! I've been reading your blog and I'm so sorry that your happiness has been overshadowed by this, but I'm also happy in your overcoming your problems. After reading your blog more, I say have a renewal of vows on a different day! Seriously. Any day but that one! Let the old one go! Out with the old in with the new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Move away. Move far away. Leave no forwarding address and move away. :eek: Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Wow, why WOULD you want your chlidren around her?!!! I don't know what caused all this to happen, but I would do what julie said and move far, far away and NEVER contact them or allow them to contact you again! Homeschooling you can do. You're chlidren are learning or they wouldn't be doing well on tests. But constant fear could cause THEM to have problems! Get away from her!!!! ETA: Sorry, forgot the :grouphug: and to let you know I have and will be praying for you all!!! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 ((( Ginger)))) God is with you Ginger. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Please don't give up! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I only have a second, & I didn't read your blog or anything, but if the situation is what it sounds like, ps is probably the last place you want your dc. They're stationary, & they can be found. I had a friend who was kidnapped by her dad when I was in 1st g, & this reminds me of that. I agree w/ the others. Move. Along similar lines, I worked in a preschool where one of the babies & her mother were using assumed names. The people who had murdered the baby's father were looking for her & the mother. I think it was an international deal, but that was enough that I didn't ask any questions. I really didn't want to know too much, kwim? GL. Hang on. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 :grouphug: I have to agree with the others. I would move, if for no other reason than to maintain your sanity. I have a dear friend with a similar situation. Fortunately they lived far away and it was easy to break off all contact, but they had to change phone numbers and keep an air of privacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 This isn't a homeschooling issue. I hope you feel great about all you are doing for your kids. Come here regularly and get a good dose of encouragement in that regard. I'm so sorry she is so ill and taking it out on you. I hope she gets help soon and will apologize later, when homeschooling proves so wonderful for your family. There needs to be a healthy change in this relationship. You can't let her have access to you and the children to hurt y'all. You m ight keep the door slightly ajar for healthy contact without boundaries, but otherwise, it's just safer not to have much contact. I do hope things get better. I can't even imagine. So sad for all of y'all (her too). ETA: I'm trying to figure out how to say this. Only part of this is bipolar. A lot of it is personality, lack of appropriate treatment, etc. It is unfair to think that all people with bipolar behave like your mil. They just don't. But it takes a lot to learn to take responsibility, follow appropriate boundaries, demand proper treatment, follow through on what is learned in treatment, etc. Not everyone chooses to do that and I'm sorry your mil is one of those who hasn't. But people with bipolar CAN gain a good deal of control when they do these things. I hope your mil chooses to become one of the "usually just fine, tyvm" kind instead....and soon :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I read most of your husband's blog and listened to the videos until I just couldn't stand it anymore. I agree with the others. Move away and change cell numbers if at all possible. If that's not an option, have her committed again, for a l-o-n-g time.:grouphug: Listening to her spew such vile gave me a headache, and I don't even know any of the parties involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 :grouphug:Ginger:grouphug: Oh, my. That is just...oh, my. I have tears in my eyes. You poor thing! I will remember you in prayer in the coming days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamagistra Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 God bless you and your family, (((Ginger))). I am sending up prayers for you all to have peace, security, and happiness somewhere, sooner rather than later. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have to agree with all of the others; this is just way over the top. I would move, and personally I like the idea of a disposable cell phone to use once in a while to keep in touch with the dad, but not with the mother. Oh, my----I can't even imagine having to go through something like this. Prayers and many, many :grouphug: for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSMP Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 ETA: I'm trying to figure out how to say this. Only part of this is bipolar. A lot of it is personality, lack of appropriate treatment, etc. It is unfair to think that all people with bipolar behave like your mil. They just don't. But it takes a lot to learn to take responsibility, follow appropriate boundaries, demand proper treatment, follow through on what is learned in treatment, etc. Not everyone chooses to do that and I'm sorry your mil is one of those who hasn't. But people with bipolar CAN gain a good deal of control when they do these things. I hope your mil chooses to become one of the "usually just fine, tyvm" kind instead....and soon :) Yes....we have come to the same conclusion. I have other friends who are bi-polar and they are doing extremely well managing their BP. She is in her early 70's and refuses to acknowledge any thing she does, her behavior or her illness. Sadly...going that long with out treatment has also caused some co-morbidity and neurological damage. Her personality will always be altered. It is sad (according to husband) that part of this is actually her personality. From talking with her sister's she has been this way most of her life...as was her mother and grandmother. It has just escalated to these proportions. My husbands family envy him because he is adopted. They recognize the genetic aspects of this disorder. For those who suggested we move away......I would love to move away. It would be difficult for him to find another job with the same benefits that we currently have. He has been offered a few that would have made it possible to move but it would have required a lot of travel and time away from us and he won't take a job that would require him to be away for large extended periods of time. If we could find one that met the needs we have he would jump on it. Quite frankly...Alaska or Europe might just be far enough away.......maybe. We've changed all the phone numbers but his work cell. That is the only number she can call. He keeps that number so that he can collect her messages. This was advised by CPS and legal. The children have not seen or spoken to her since June of 2007 when we ran into her at the voting poll. The children do understand it is a mental illness but they also see the hatred she exhibits. Aubrey...I never thought of the PS in that way.....Excellent point!! The last thing we would need would be something stationary. Thank you all so much for the thoughts and prayers and encouragement. I really just needed to vent this morning. I don't always feel this way....and the kids and I make every venture an adventure. Virginia is such a historical state that we have seen quite a bit so far from our little road trips. I was just feeling a little sorry for myself, the kids and the whole situation. Rebel....Wow....you read through my husbands blog? You were brave enough to listen to the messages. Thank you, each of you for the support and words.....Believe me...If we move away....I am going to have the biggest party ever!!!! We are lucky in that Virginia is not a grandparents right state.....We joined HSLDA and I started having a proctor do the testing. I'm just tired sometimes........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 My MIL is mentally ill. We have had to cut off all contact with her. It is heartbreaking, but she is not a safe person to be around for adults, let alone children. FIL has lived with her insanity for so long that he is almost as bad. MIL is not going to get any better, even with medication; she has a chronic, degenerative neurological condition that exacerbates her mental illness. Worst of all, she won't admit that she has a problem. We pray for her and over the years I've moved from anger to forgiveness and sadness for her, but protecting our child is - has to be - our number one priority. For us, that meant moving, changing our numbers, and keeping certain personal details private at all costs. I'm am so, so sorry you're going through this. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSMP Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 My MIL is mentally ill. We have had to cut off all contact with her. It is heartbreaking, but she is not a safe person to be around for adults, let alone children. FIL has lived with her insanity for so long that he is almost as bad. MIL is not going to get any better, even with medication; she has a chronic, degenerative neurological condition that exacerbates her mental illness. Worst of all, she won't admit that she has a problem. We pray for her and over the years I've moved from anger to forgiveness and sadness for her, but protecting our child is - has to be - our number one priority. For us, that meant moving, changing our numbers, and keeping certain personal details private at all costs. I'm am so, so sorry you're going through this. :( Not trying to be funny but sounds like your MIL and mine might be related. It is the same thing here. With my husband growing up in it, his coping skill that he learned by age 10 was the Mom had nothing good to say and nothing he could ever do was going to be good enough so He literally zoned her out. It wasn't until last summer he realized the depth and breadth of her interference with our marriage and the kids lives. He had started to pull the kids away and we have gone through her cycles of them not seeing the kids for a year and then being told she was doing better or some sob story that would make us think everything was okay. Eventually I think it will require us moving......My husband is beyond the anger I think.....he hasn't reached the forgiveness or sorrow stage yet. He just wants her to go away...... Thank you for what you shared.....I know how difficult it is.....I'm glad you have found some resolution for your family. I actually felt kind of stupid for posting that.....I thought people would think I was nuts or just not understand. Most people don't understand how awful it is unless they hear her.......I do appreciate everything everyone has said and the encouragement. We decided the kids and I were going to start counseling to make sure this doesn't leave any lasting harm with them. We have really tried to shield the kids from a lot of it.....but we weren't able to keep them from all of it. They told me just the other day how great it has been not seeing them for the year and a half. They commented on how much closer we've drawn as a family and all of the neat things we've done together. They really have a positive outlook for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I am so sorry you have this burden! My mother is mentally ill and is refusing to believe it or be treated for it but it's not as bad as your mil. My mother left my father 2 years ago and it has been so good for my father. I guess that's why I feel badly for your fil as well. The good thing about you guys staying there is that you can encourage him. It's such a difficult situation when a person is dealing with a spouse's mental illness. If you are a believer and want to honor your vows you have the whole "in sickness and in health" to deal with. But at the same time, living in an abusive situation like that is horrible. My father did not divorce my mother and she agreed to stay married to keep the medical benefit etc. Our state doesn't have a legal separation so they live apart but are still married. We can let my mother be around my kids but only short visits. And even then, she has on occasion said something inappropriate. She doesn't have full access to them and will not again. It's sad. Could you have a restraining order placed on mil so she can't come to your house? That way you would not have to hide all the time. I will pray for you and your family. Blessings!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ginger, the messages and dh's blog were bad. It's sad because bipolar changes the brain with time. If she's always been unmedicated and out of control, her brain probably is VERY affected. Sad. I do hope y'all get some relief soon. I agree with Michelle, a restraining order could be of some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSMP Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I am so sorry you have this burden! My mother is mentally ill and is refusing to believe it or be treated for it but it's not as bad as your mil. My mother left my father 2 years ago and it has been so good for my father. I guess that's why I feel badly for your fil as well. The good thing about you guys staying there is that you can encourage him. It's such a difficult situation when a person is dealing with a spouse's mental illness. If you are a believer and want to honor your vows you have the whole "in sickness and in health" to deal with. But at the same time, living in an abusive situation like that is horrible. My father did not divorce my mother and she agreed to stay married to keep the medical benefit etc. Our state doesn't have a legal separation so they live apart but are still married. We can let my mother be around my kids but only short visits. And even then, she has on occasion said something inappropriate. She doesn't have full access to them and will not again. It's sad. Could you have a restraining order placed on mil so she can't come to your house? That way you would not have to hide all the time. I will pray for you and your family. Blessings!! My FIL is very devoted to her but cannot stay with her for long periods of time. She mostly stays at their beach house and he stays at the house local to us or in the mountains. It has been difficult for my husband because we have determined that his father is a victim of spousal abuse. He (FIL) doesn't see it that way. We talked about many of the responses tonight and my husband really wants to be in the area in case his father needs him, yet try to balance keeping his mom away from us. For the most part, he has been successful. It's sad to hear about your mother but I am glad your father has found peace. Ginger, the messages and dh's blog were bad. It's sad because bipolar changes the brain with time. If she's always been unmedicated and out of control, her brain probably is VERY affected. Sad. I do hope y'all get some relief soon. I agree with Michelle, a restraining order could be of some help. She has been committed three times and has always refused medication. She isn't mentally ill. She has allergies. That is her response and it is everyone else who is ill and out to get her. My husband actually has a degree in Psychology and has studied Bi-Polar. Sadly, we know that since she has always refused treatment and is now in her 70's, there really is no fixing her. We were advised against a restraining order due to the many allegations she has all ready made. She actually has moments of clarity and can almost make herself believable. If we pursued the restraining order we would be opening ourselves up to giving her the soapbox she needs to run with her accusations. We have all ready seen Child Protective Services....posted No Trespassing signs and even have the neighbors on watch. We will end up having to do the restraining order and it will help that FIL has all ready served her with a No Trespass but let it go..... I feel for all those families who have dealt with this type of situation or are currently dealing with this.....You really sit back and tell yourself that there is no way any one could believe or understand what happens when dealing with a person who cannot see they are ill. My MIL is an extreme case.....there is nothing we have been able to bribe her with that would convince her to even take meds. Nothing. There is nothing she cares enough about to make her want to get better. Anyway....I'm sorry for running on like this......the support and encouragement you have all given has really brought tears to my eyes. To find that many of you understand......I'll be able to come and say "having a bad day...MIL" and you will understand. I am just going to have to purpose not to go out to YouTube and listen to any more of that ......whatever you want to call it. Kind of like eavesdropping on someone else's conversation....You should know you are never going to hear anything good about yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 WOW! The extent to which her illness is spewing is astonishing. I feel very sad for you and if you don't find a way to get her out of your lives you will all suffer from Post Tramatic Stress Disorder...if you aren't already (which I suspect you do). I want to address an issue of your FIL. I sense that he is the glue that that keeps you all orbiting around this sick woman. I know something about this because I have a close relative that created that situation for us. After a lot of self-help reading and thought, I realized a few things. For your own safety and sanity you need to let the relationship with FIL stall out for awhile. He needs to be forced to confront a decision only he can make. Clearly MIL uses him when she says hurtful things and his passivity allows it. In my situation, I finally told my passive relative that it was ok if they accepted bad behavior but that I was done and that unless there was improvement I would not expose myself to that damaging person and by extension I would limit contact with them as well as long as it continued to be a problem. You need to light a fire under FIL. Since she will not take the meds and IMO represents a danger then he could easily have her hospitalized but he isn't taking control. It is HIS choice if he wants a continued healthy relationship with his son and grandchildren. If he cannot be a positive or supportive influence then he is enabling this horrible situation to continue and you have every right and obligation to limit or halt the contact. You only have limited time with your children. You all deserve a life that is free from this kind of continued psychological torment. It has nothing to do with homeschooling. If you put the kids in PS your MIL would find another reason to rant. Make your decisions based on what you know is best for your children. FIL makes his own choices-to remain in the abusive environment and keep enabling MIL or to cultivate a better relationship with is son and family. That is a choice HE makes and you cannot urge or compel him in any way. You have to accept the choices he makes but you do not have to be shackled by the choices he makes. Just as he has his choices-you have your choices. Do not let the guilt trips and psychological battering make you doubt yourselves. You need to change your address, move across town and get a PO Box, change the addy on your licenses, take out a restraining order etc. I would investigate some short term counseling for your family to help you to see how this is affecting you and to give you clarity. The more you put up with, the less able you will be to escape the insanity...evidence...your FIL. You need to take back your lives now. (((hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I would unplug the answering machine. Being able to leave her rambling, accusatory messages is allowing her to keep a mental vice grip on you and your husband. Please don't give her anymore control in your home. Blessings to you, and peace~ another Ginger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 We were advised against a restraining order due to the many allegations she has all ready made. She actually has moments of clarity and can almost make herself believable. If we pursued the restraining order we would be opening ourselves up to giving her the soapbox she needs to run with her accusations. We have all ready seen Child Protective Services....posted No Trespassing signs and even have the neighbors on watch. Wow, I just don't understand this at all. If CPS knows what is going on, and you have legal advice and documentation of the abuse, you should be able to get a restraining order. I can't understand how it would give her a larger voice. So if you have the No Trespassing signs AND you have the neighbors on watch, what happens when she does show up? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what a restraining order is but doesn't it allow you to phone the police if she even gets near you, the children or the house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSMP Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 WOW! The extent to which her illness is spewing is astonishing. I feel very sad for you and if you don't find a way to get her out of your lives you will all suffer from Post Tramatic Stress Disorder...if you aren't already (which I suspect you do). I want to address an issue of your FIL. I sense that he is the glue that that keeps you all orbiting around this sick woman. I know something about this because I have a close relative that created that situation for us. After a lot of self-help reading and thought, I realized a few things. For your own safety and sanity you need to let the relationship with FIL stall out for awhile. He needs to be forced to confront a decision only he can make. Clearly MIL uses him when she says hurtful things and his passivity allows it. In my situation, I finally told my passive relative that it was ok if they accepted bad behavior but that I was done and that unless there was improvement I would not expose myself to that damaging person and by extension I would limit contact with them as well as long as it continued to be a problem. You need to light a fire under FIL. Since she will not take the meds and IMO represents a danger then he could easily have her hospitalized but he isn't taking control. It is HIS choice if he wants a continued healthy relationship with his son and grandchildren. If he cannot be a positive or supportive influence then he is enabling this horrible situation to continue and you have every right and obligation to limit or halt the contact. You only have limited time with your children. You all deserve a life that is free from this kind of continued psychological torment. It has nothing to do with homeschooling. If you put the kids in PS your MIL would find another reason to rant. Make your decisions based on what you know is best for your children. FIL makes his own choices-to remain in the abusive environment and keep enabling MIL or to cultivate a better relationship with is son and family. That is a choice HE makes and you cannot urge or compel him in any way. You have to accept the choices he makes but you do not have to be shackled by the choices he makes. Just as he has his choices-you have your choices. Do not let the guilt trips and psychological battering make you doubt yourselves. You need to change your address, move across town and get a PO Box, change the addy on your licenses, take out a restraining order etc. I would investigate some short term counseling for your family to help you to see how this is affecting you and to give you clarity. The more you put up with, the less able you will be to escape the insanity...evidence...your FIL. You need to take back your lives now. (((hugs))) Thank you 2Cents....I never even considered PTSD. We have little to no contact with his dad. His dad is the only one that has permission to see the kids. I think he is even stuck in the middle. He is harangued if he does see them and if he doesn't see them by MIL. He will come home and not even let us know he is here. The contact there is limited. The kids are not even allowed around FIL unless Hubby is with them. They will go out to eat at CiCi's pizza. Since January I think they have only seen their grandfather a total 8 times. You do make some valid points. I am going to have my husband read this thread. I think he to will be amazed at the encouragement and the ideas that everyone here has thrown out to us....If will give him some more food for thought. I would unplug the answering machine. Being able to leave her rambling, accusatory messages is allowing her to keep a mental vice grip on you and your husband. Please don't give her anymore control in your home. Blessings to you, and peace~another Ginger She cannot call our house anymore. We ad the number changed and it is unlisted. When she could call, we have these really neat phones. They allow you to assign a special ring, which we did...I believe it was a funeral durge. The top of the phone has a light band. This would allow you to assign the numbers a color. Which we did. Their numbers would all flash red. The volume to the answering machine was always turned off. When they would call you would see the red flash and we knew not to answer the phone then hubby would collect all the messages when he got home. We have over 1000 messages that have been recorded and collected in a file for protection if need be. She only has access to my husband through his cell phone which is a work phone. She cannot get to us anymore at the house....... Wow, I just don't understand this at all. If CPS knows what is going on, and you have legal advice and documentation of the abuse, you should be able to get a restraining order. I can't understand how it would give her a larger voice. So if you have the No Trespassing signs AND you have the neighbors on watch, what happens when she does show up? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what a restraining order is but doesn't it allow you to phone the police if she even gets near you, the children or the house? NIght Elf...there was concern that she would be able to cause problems especially with the home schooling. Even though we have all the paper work and tests to back up that we are schooling and doing a d*m good job of it. We can still call the police on her.......The magistrate said that just having the No Trespassing signs up gives us leverage against her. Part of that is also my irrational fear of her. We also have the 60 page doctor's reports from when she was committed last year. We have several copies in case I have to call the police. I can just hand it over to the officer's. It states in the psyche eval that she is a threat/danger to the DIL....that would be me. My husband has no other siblings. His only brother was killed in a car accident in '89 at the age of 16. Both boys were adopted. It wasn't always like this because my husband couldn't see it due to his own coping skills in how he handled her. Skills that he developed as a child. This past year he has gone out of his way to protect us and make sure that if we feel stressed we have an avenue of leaving. I have a lot of friends that I have met personally from the old Donna Young.org forum. Many of us have spent vacations at each other's houses.....so I actually have friends from Canada to Australia if need be....not to mention the entire eastern seaboard. 2Cents...I am going to bring up the PTSD with the counselor today...I hadn't even considered that point. My concern is that I have passed on my fear of this whole situation to my kids. That it is my fear they are feeding off and my cowardice. I know I am the one who sets the tone and that was part of the reason I decided we were all going to go to counseling. I thought it wouldn't hurt. Thanks Ladies......You brought up some good points. I told my husband that I felt we were so close to everything that maybe some objective views from others might help us to put the situation into perspective. We are so in the middle that it isn't really until others hear or read that we can see the harshness of the whole thing. We do...but we don't KWIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 G, just never forget that you can always runaway to my house ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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