Sonlight has the newest video up....

[Shellydon]

how is it unfair?

 

Well Do you know exactly what was moderated out?

 

I do.

 

I have talked to others that have had stuff moderated out.

 

Now I will agree some personal attacks should get a moderated and honestly it really has been a two way street on some of the ugliness.

 

and yes what I posted above is a bit of a stretch on thier real reasons to mod edit stuff.

 

oh and editing to add. my mod edit came in a good bye thread there.

 

I saw much of what was editing and I agree with the mods. I think they totally needed to shut things down.

[smilesonly]

how is it unfair?

 

Well Do you know exactly what was moderated out?

 

yep, i do.

 

I do.

 

me,too.

I have talked to others that have had stuff moderated out.

 

and i have talked to others who agree it should've been moderated even more than it was.

 

Now I will agree some personal attacks should get a moderated and honestly it really has been a two way street on some of the ugliness.

 

i just don't see that. i read amy's comments and i also read her apology and how she tried so badly to explain she didn't mean it the way her words came out. even after she apologized, she was given no grace whatsoever.

 

and yes what I posted above is a bit of a stretch on thier real reasons to mod edit stuff.

 

oh and editing to add. my mod edit came in a good bye thread there.

 

i didn't read that. i replied above within your quotes.

[ZooRho]

i didn't read that. i replied above within your quotes.

 

Words have meaning and her's were out of line.

 

We can't see that thread though because the whole thing is gone now. and if it comes back, it will no doubt be heavily moderated so no one will really know what was said.

 

 

there was grace in there. Honestly as I've said there has been a lot of ugliness coming back to those who are asking honest questions of SL.

 

Really I'm a long time user. I have at times blindly supported Sl at times. I can no longer blindly support some of the actions they are taking now. I have encouraged many to use Sonlight over the 17 years I have hsed.

 

Sonlight has changed and seems to be changing even more. Long time users are trying to see how far they have turned.

[smilesonly]

Words have meaning and her's were out of line.

 

We can't see that thread though because the whole thing is gone now. and if it comes back, it will no doubt be heavily moderated so no one will really know what was said.

 

 

there was grace in there. Honestly as I've said there has been a lot of ugliness coming back to those who are asking honest questions of SL.

 

Really I'm a long time user. I have at times blindly supported Sl at times. I can no longer blindly support some of the actions they are taking now. I have encouraged many to use Sonlight over the 17 years I have hsed.

 

Sonlight has changed and seems to be changing even more. Long time users are trying to see how far they have turned.

 

i'm not blindly supporting sl. i wouldn't blindly support any company. i would also expect a company to evolve as it grows and as its customer base changes-or the market changes.

 

sl is a company that has changed hands and with that change, i expect a slightly different path-new visions are not a bad thing. there has been no evidence-so far-which has me believing any drastic change in philosophical or historical opinions is happening.

[Jonibee]

The change from the thinking "John years" at Sonlight to the addition of the Light and the Glory series of three books ---

 

From the open discussions on their forums with John himself playing the devil's advocate, so to speak, against mainstream Christianity and its tendency toward legalism --

 

The change on the forums from allowing anyone to speak about anything for any length of time, to one where moderators edit just about anything that they don't want to answer --

 

The changes of forum poofs over the years, charging money for the forum --

 

I have used Sonlight since 1996-ish. Sarita and John are just not the same flavor, in any sense. John was a person to me and Sarita is a business. John was a person who boosted homeschoolers being individually thinking people. Sarita is just another homeschool business, that is all.

 

I do not think SL will ever enjoy the homeschool loyalty that they had with John. Sarita has been at the helm for a number of years now, but I think many of us are seeing the absolute finality of what that is looking like. Now we homeschool with Sonlight alone, whereas before we were joined with Sonlight, taking the thinking we were taught to do and going out in the world with it. Some of those old-timers who read this will know what I am saying.

 

Now, it is just Sarita . . . giving us an almost scripted set of notes to use, with Providential American History texts, which to many of us is a shove-down-your-throat theology we never asked for and cannot spoon-feed to our children in good conscience. It's not John, and for all practical purposes, John Holzmann is dead to the homeschool world. It's been a sad realization for me. The curriculum is just not the same, whether it's always been Sarita choosing the books or not.

 

I'm looking at Heart of Dakota as a substitute. My stomach just starts to turn at the thought of buying a Sarita-scripted IG. She wants to do everything for me, make everything easier for me. John encouraged me and my older children to do for ourselves. Frankly, I fear for the "next generation" of homeschoolers who put their trust in Sarita's providential wisdom. She may have homeschooled her kids, but if John wrote all the earlier notes, then it was John helping me homeschool mine. And as I said, the John days are dead and gone.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Jonibee
grammar :-)

[boscopup]

I'm looking at Heart of Dakota as a substitute.

 

HOD is providential, you know... It may be more in the notes than in the books, but their whole mantra is to "show God's hand in history". I think the younger guides are most apparent in this. Check the samples carefully.

 

That's why I was so thrilled to find a Christian, non-providential American history curriculum when I picked up Sonlight. Sigh. At least I can buy used or just use the 4-day option if new. :tongue_smilie:

[Jonibee]

HOD is providential, you know... It may be more in the notes than in the books, but their whole mantra is to "show God's hand in history". I think the younger guides are most apparent in this. Check the samples carefully.

 

That's why I was so thrilled to find a Christian, non-providential American history curriculum when I picked up Sonlight. Sigh. At least I can buy used or just use the 4-day option if new. :tongue_smilie:

 

Long . drawn . out . sigh.

 

Yes, I am finding that providential tone in HOD the more I look at it. The thing is, if the writer of the curriculum (SL) agrees with the providential viewpoint, to say that the reader/implementer is only going to find it on that 5th day of the week -- well, I don't think that is really true. There will be an underlying mistrust of all if it for me. I mean, the whole scenario is just making me not like them anymore. Period. I do not know if I can separate their product from THEM in my use of it. Even after all these years.

 

I feel taken advantage of and feel that they have long stated flat-out on their own public forum that I am not their target customer. (What kind of company does this???!!)

 

I do not WANT to give them my business or use their product. That is my struggle. That is why I have been for years a "closet user" and so rarely post about it. None of my friends know what I use for homeschool. I think I recommended it on this forum once. That is sad, for someone who has used it for more than 15 years. No recommendation.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Jonibee

[ktgrok]

Long . drawn . out . sigh.

 

Yes, I am finding that providential tone in HOD the more I look at it. The thing is, if the writer of the curriculum (SL) agrees with the providential viewpoint, to say that the reader/implementer is only going to find it on that 5th day of the week -- well, I don't think that is really true. There will be an underlying mistrust of all if it for me. I mean, the whole scenario is just making me not like them anymore. Period. I do not know if I can separate their product from THEM in my use of it. Even after all these years.

 

I feel taken advantage of and feel that they have long stated flat-out on their own public forum that I am not their target customer. (What kind of company does this???!!)

 

I do not WANT to give them my business or use their product. That is my struggle. That is why I have been for years a "closet user" and so rarely post about it. None of my friends know what I use for homeschool. I think I recommended it on this forum once. That is sad, for someone who has used it for more than 15 years. No recommendation.

 

The only hope that I can offer is that they are still using Hakim's series for American History in the older years. That is most certainly NOT providential. So if they have a series that is, that is only selected readings on the optional fifth day, and a series that is NOT, that is used as a spine, I think it probably, hopefully, means the curriculum is not laced with providential secret leanings.

[warneral]

I just want to point out that there is a difference between providential - God has his hand on history because he is sovereign and in control - and - America is God's chosen land.

 

The former is a biblical truth throughout scripture the latter is simply someone's contrived viewpoint

[KirstenH]

I really want to love Sonlight. They sell beautiful products and I adore the idea of teaching through literature. I have long admired the company's openness to including varying worldviews in their booklists with the understanding that exposing is not the same as condoning.

 

That said, the move to charge for the forums a few years ago (when I was smack dab in the middle of evaluating the idea of homeschooling for my then-soon-to-be school-aged oldest child) was a huge turn-off to me, and every time since then that I've tried to deal with the company, I've come away empty-handed and feeling like their highest priority is to nickel-and-dime me to death. Add that feeling to the apparent move toward a more American providentialist worldview, and I'm done before I started. I was very close to buying Core D/E for next year, but not anymore.

 

On a purely practical note, as a professional writer and editor, I strongly dislike their Language Arts program and would never use it. If the LA is bundled with the Cores now ... ai yi yi.

[Irishmommy]

I just want to point out that there is a difference between providential - God has his hand on history because he is sovereign and in control - and - America is God's chosen land.

 

The former is a biblical truth throughout scripture the latter is simply someone's contrived viewpoint

 

I think this is important for me as well. I have always taught that God's hand is in our lives and in history, but I would NEVER go so far as to say that America is the chosen country. :lol:

[ZooRho]

The change from the thinking "John years" at Sonlight to the addition of the Light and the Glory series of three books ---

 

 

The change on the forums from allowing anyone to speak about anything for any length of time, to one where moderators edit just about anything that they don't want to answer --

--

John was a person who boosted homeschoolers being individually thinking people. Sarita is just another homeschool business, that is all.

 

I do not think SL will ever enjoy the homeschool loyalty that they had with John. . Some of those old-timers who read this will know what I am saying.

 

. And as I said, the John days are dead and gone.

These are the highlighted things that stand out to me in this situation. Only those that are the real old timers get you are so right.

 

yeah youngsters can't imagine blindly following a company, I find that sad. I knew Sonligh back in the day, it was easy to trust them because you knew them.

 

but yeah now just another one of the companies out there doing business

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The change from the thinking "John years" at Sonlight to the addition of the Light and the Glory series of three books ---

 

From the open discussions on their forums with John himself playing the devil's advocate, so to speak, against mainstream Christianity and its tendency toward legalism --

 

The change on the forums from allowing anyone to speak about anything for any length of time, to one where moderators edit just about anything that they don't want to answer --

 

The changes of forum poofs over the years, charging money for the forum --

 

I have used Sonlight since 1996-ish. Sarita and John are just not the same flavor, in any sense. John was a person to me and Sarita is a business. John was a person who boosted homeschoolers being individually thinking people. Sarita is just another homeschool business, that is all.

 

I do not think SL will ever enjoy the homeschool loyalty that they had with John. Sarita has been at the helm for a number of years now, but I think many of us are seeing the absolute finality of what that is looking like. Now we homeschool with Sonlight alone, whereas before we were joined with Sonlight, taking the thinking we were taught to do and going out in the world with it. Some of those old-timers who read this will know what I am saying.

 

Now, it is just Sarita . . . giving us an almost scripted set of notes to use, with Providential American History texts, which to many of us is a shove-down-your-throat theology we never asked for and cannot spoon-feed to our children in good conscience. It's not John, and for all practical purposes, John Holzmann is dead to the homeschool world. It's been a sad realization for me. The curriculum is just not the same, whether it's always been Sarita choosing the books or not.

 

I'm looking at Heart of Dakota as a substitute. My stomach just starts to turn at the thought of buying a Sarita-scripted IG. She wants to do everything for me, make everything easier for me. John encouraged me and my older children to do for ourselves. Frankly, I fear for the "next generation" of homeschoolers who put their trust in Sarita's providential wisdom. She may have homeschooled her kids, but if John wrote all the earlier notes, then it was John helping me homeschool mine. And as I said, the John days are dead and gone.

 

Good post, Jonibee. I agree with almost everything you've said here.

 

ktgrok, Hakim was mentioned by Amy at SL as a product that is currently causing them some embarrassment. She was making a point about something else and used The Story of US as an example, but IMHO we got a warning that they're considering replacing Hakim with something that won't require 17 pages of IG notes to counteract.

 

I don't speak for SL in anyway. Possibly others who read her comment on that interpreted it differently.

[8circles]

Good post, Jonibee. I agree with almost everything you've said here.

 

ktgrok, Hakim was mentioned by Amy at SL as a product that is currently causing them some embarrassment. She was making a point about something else and used The Story of US as an example, but IMHO we got a warning that they're considering replacing Hakim with something that won't require 17 pages of IG notes to counteract.

 

I don't speak for SL in anyway. Possibly others who read her comment on that interpreted it differently.

 

Yes. She also commented on there being lots of errors in SWB's SOTW.

[ByGrace3]

Yes. She also commented on there being lots of errors in SWB's SOTW.

 

are the posts where Amy talked about Story of the US and SOTW still up or were they locked or deleted? If they are there, can we get a link? Thanks!

[8circles]

are the posts where Amy talked about Story of the US and SOTW still up or were they locked or deleted? If they are there, can we get a link? Thanks!

 

I haven't spent a lof of time looking today but the couple threads I was following are completely gone.

[smilesonly]

The change from the thinking "John years" at Sonlight to the addition of the Light and the Glory series of three books ---

 

the addition of these newer, condensed version which are offered as an *optional* book on the 5th day does not equate to a radical change in theology.

 

From the open discussions on their forums with John himself playing the devil's advocate, so to speak, against mainstream Christianity and its tendency toward legalism --

 

The change on the forums from allowing anyone to speak about anything for any length of time, to one where moderators edit just about anything that they don't want to answer --

 

perhaps this is due to the over the top rudeness displayed by sl members. members who feel it is okay to argue and make personal attacks on the owners? what Christian hsing forum allows for an "anything goes" policy on their forums?

 

The changes of forum poofs over the years, charging money for the forum --

 

I have used Sonlight since 1996-ish. Sarita and John are just not the same flavor, in any sense. John was a person to me and Sarita is a business. John was a person who boosted homeschoolers being individually thinking people. Sarita is just another homeschool business, that is all.

 

do you personally know them? you see, i read this as a personal attack. and, quite rude.

 

as a hser with a brain, i don't look to a curriculum provider to "boost" me to think for myself. to me, that is creepy.

I do not think SL will ever enjoy the homeschool loyalty that they had with John. Sarita has been at the helm for a number of years now, but I think many of us are seeing the absolute finality of what that is looking like. Now we homeschool with Sonlight alone, whereas before we were joined with Sonlight, taking the thinking we were taught to do and going out in the world with it. Some of those old-timers who read this will know what I am saying.

 

i think that is a broad assumption. if you and other "old-timers" are witnessing such a change, that change is coming from the adult children of john and sarita, who i would guess, were raised to think globally and for themselves. maybe they see it as a bit...inappropriate to do so much hand-holding.

 

Now, it is just Sarita . . . giving us an almost scripted set of notes to use, with Providential American History texts, which to many of us is a shove-down-your-throat theology we never asked for and cannot spoon-feed to our children in good conscience. It's not John, and for all practical purposes, John Holzmann is dead to the homeschool world. It's been a sad realization for me. The curriculum is just not the same, whether it's always been Sarita choosing the books or not.

 

more personal attacks. the addition of these books will not break sl. none of us have seen the curriculum-hints, yes-but unless we hold the ig in our hands or see an entire booklist, and *how* the book is used, it is wrong to scream such assumptions.

 

I'm looking at Heart of Dakota as a substitute. My stomach just starts to turn at the thought of buying a Sarita-scripted IG. She wants to do everything for me, make everything easier for me. John encouraged me and my older children to do for ourselves. Frankly, I fear for the "next generation" of homeschoolers who put their trust in Sarita's providential wisdom. She may have homeschooled her kids, but if John wrote all the earlier notes, then it was John helping me homeschool mine. And as I said, the John days are dead and gone.

 

more replies w/i your quotes. hod? are you kidding me? talk about theology being shoved down your throat. and, i highly doubt that carrie would allow an "anything" goes forum policy.

 

Long . drawn . out . sigh.

 

Yes, I am finding that providential tone in HOD the more I look at it. The thing is, if the writer of the curriculum (SL) agrees with the providential viewpoint, to say that the reader/implementer is only going to find it on that 5th day of the week -- well, I don't think that is really true. There will be an underlying mistrust of all if it for me. I mean, the whole scenario is just making me not like them anymore. Period. I do not know if I can separate their product from THEM in my use of it. Even after all these years.

 

I feel taken advantage of and feel that they have long stated flat-out on their own public forum that I am not their target customer. (What kind of company does this???!!)

 

you are one person. no company cannot make every single customer happy. just because you have been with sl for well over a decade does not mean they have you in mind when they are developing each year's changes.

 

I do not WANT to give them my business or use their product. That is my struggle. That is why I have been for years a "closet user" and so rarely post about it. None of my friends know what I use for homeschool. I think I recommended it on this forum once. That is sad, for someone who has used it for more than 15 years. No recommendation.

 

replies above.

 

These are the highlighted things that stand out to me in this situation. Only those that are the real old timers get you are so right.

 

yeah youngsters can't imagine blindly following a company, I find that sad. I knew Sonligh back in the day, it was easy to trust them because you knew them.

 

but yeah now just another one of the companies out there doing business

 

that is rude and incredibly condescending.

 

how sad it would be if a company never made changes. how stale and sterile, actually.

 

umm. sl is a company, with employees to pay, bills to pay. i don't expect them to cater to my every hsing need, nor would i want them to be spineless and bow down to complaints of "old-timers" while totally disregarding the average customer.

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

smilesonly (ironic username!), do you work for Sonlight?

[Avila]

smilesonly (ironic username!), do you work for Sonlight?

 

No kidding.

 

It is not a personal attack for people to say that that company was different when John was a vocal spokesperson than it does now under Sarita and the kids. John was quite openly broad-minded and tolerant. He participated in discussions both on the Sonlight forum and in private Yahoogroups that made people of other viewpoints trust and respect him. Anybody who responded well to John and his ideas and used that to base an opinion of Sonlight seems to feel (at the minimum) let down and disappointed with the current course.

 

It may have always been this way. Sarita may have always felt this way. But John presented a different "face" to Sonlight, and that interpretation is now gone.

 

I do not think it at all a personal attack or disrepectful to point that out. The changes on their forum, in their catalog, and in their recent curriculum changes suggest a long-term view that people who were sold on Sonlight under John's viewpoint and leadership will not agree with. Sonlight seems much less broad, much less tolerant, and much more providential.

[Tenaj]

I've been an off and on user of SL for years, more off than on in recent years because they seemed to be becoming a company that was trying to be all things to all people.

 

I wonder how many former users are tempted to go back now that the emphasis seems to changing? This is the first year in a long time that I'm seriously tempted to switch back (even though I love HOD).

 

It just looks like during the "John years" Sonlight may have wandered away from it's original calling and now that Sarita is back at the helm she wants to turn it back into the company she started years ago.

 

Just what I've been thinking this week as I watch the fireworks. I'm still really annoyed that the book descriptions won't be in the catalog though!

 

Regarding the moderation issues, their forums, their rules. At least everyone can come over here and vent to their hearts content!

[ZooRho]

more replies w/i your quotes. hod? are you kidding me? talk about theology being shoved down your throat. and, i highly doubt that carrie would allow an "anything" goes forum policy.

 

 

 

replies above.

 

 

 

that is rude and incredibly condescending.

 

how sad it would be if a company never made changes. how stale and sterile, actually.

 

umm. sl is a company, with employees to pay, bills to pay. i don't expect them to cater to my every hsing need, nor would i want them to be spineless and bow down to complaints of "old-timers" while totally disregarding the average customer.

 

 

How sad for you that everything you read that I am saying and you don't know me at all, is nothing but condescending. I don't know that I have even seen a post of yours before now. I loved Sonlight, totally supported it, bought things from them that maybe I could have gotten cheaper some where else. Told others about them. In fact I just met with a lady and spent 2 hours with her talking about Sonlight and how to use it, gave her one of the coveted 2010 catalogs.

 

But 17 years with a business, did give me a different feel for it. What many of us have tried to say it wasn't just a company to us, it was family.

 

yes I agree don't want it to stay stagnant but I also don't want it to go in a direction that is far off the course it was on. That is what we are seeing.

 

I think Sonlight is about to do much more hand holding than they ever did in the past with the newer IGs.

 

What is so hard for newer people to get and what several of us have said it wasn't just a company with John at the head, but a large extended family. That is what has brought out the passion in people.

[Tenaj]

Sonlight seems much less broad, much less tolerant, and much more providential.

 

 

But if Sarita and the Board of Directors, (or whatever organization the company has set up), has a set of beliefs that support this view, wouldn't it be less than courageous to continue Sonlight has it has been? This can't have been an easy change to make and I admire Sarita for being willing to take the heat.

[Jonibee]

No kidding.

 

It is not a personal attack for people to say that that company was different when John was a vocal spokesperson than it does now under Sarita and the kids. John was quite openly broad-minded and tolerant. He participated in discussions both on the Sonlight forum and in private Yahoogroups that made people of other viewpoints trust and respect him. Anybody who responded well to John and his ideas and used that to base an opinion of Sonlight seems to feel (at the minimum) let down and disappointed with the current course.

 

It may have always been this way. Sarita may have always felt this way. But John presented a different "face" to Sonlight, and that interpretation is now gone.

 

I do not think it at all a personal attack or disrepectful to point that out. The changes on their forum, in their catalog, and in their recent curriculum changes suggest a long-term view that people who were sold on Sonlight under John's viewpoint and leadership will not agree with. Sonlight seems much less broad, much less tolerant, and much more providential.

 

This is very true. And to the poster above, who thinks I've been quite rude . . .

 

Can I also add that Sonlight publically attacks those whom they see as using their curriculum as "just a booklist" and thereby "taking advantage of them" in that way?

 

I find it amusing, then, that no one in the Sonlight management or IG design departments had any idea that John had outwardly spoken -- at great depth -- in multiply printed ways, including their own "Instructor Guide" about the embarrassment of the Light and Glory books to not only America but to anyone who calls themselves Christian.

 

And yet, because we now hear that "Sarita has always chosen the books," she had no knowledge of John's opinion on this matter? It is obvious that someone somewhere along knew John's opinion and printed it in the IG so that we might all know John's opinion -- as if that was an important fact for us to know.

 

But maybe Sonlight IS JUST A BOOKLIST -- in Sarita's eyes. Maybe that's why no one even bothered to look and read what John had previously said about these embarrassing books.

 

But let's just use the books that are embarrassing to anyone who calls themself a Christian on the 5th day -- then, I suppose, it should be okay. Well, hmmm.

 

Whatever you think about Sarita now, and Sonlight, it does not change this very OBVIOUS turn of events -- from what is WAS to what it now IS.

 

If my husband wrote an opinion piece about a book series, I do not think I should call it a personal attack on me if someone were to point out that he disagrees with me -- that he had publically disagreed with me.

 

If John Holzmann disagrees with Sarita Holzmann on books that embarrass the name Christian, I do not see that I should not have a problem with that situation as well, and yes, ask the company of Sonlight to explain. Those customers who are new and want to accept what Sarita is selling, go ahead. I have no problem with you. In fact, that has nothing to do with this situation at all. The truth is, Sarita and Amy want us to believe that nothing has changed when maybe, in fact, absolutely everything has changed. If a book that used to be embarrassing to a Christian is okay now, that is an about-face which I think deserves a further explanation. Rudeness has nothing to do with it. They want me to trust them, and I want to trust them. Right now, I cannot.

[Avila]

But if Sarita and the Board of Directors, (or whatever organization the company has set up), has a set of beliefs that support this view, wouldn't it be less than courageous to continue Sonlight has it has been? This can't have been an easy change to make and I admire Sarita for being willing to take the heat.

 

I think several people have already said that it is looking like the "John years" truly were the aberration and that Sarita has always seen things this way. It is her company, and her ultimate responsibility.

 

I see her decisions as more cowardly than courageous though. Again, personal opinion not attack. But if she always felt this way, why let John and his ideas mislead so many people as to what Sonlight was really about? If Sonlight had always been true to itself, they would not have a large vocal minority feeling betrayed about how they have "changed.". Maybe it was just poor communication or lack of communication from Sarita, but she was there while John was so vocal and never then said otherwise. Her viewpoints only came to the forefront after CHEC and the like decided to challenge their status as a Christian company.

 

If this was always Sonlight, all these people who are so upset would never have bought into the vision to begin with. Sarita has every right to change that vision (or take it back to its roots), but people also have every right to feel upset at the changes. Sonlight has always sold the vision as their brand, and people chose Sonlight based on that vision. You could always use the books without it, but it was the vision that made people become Sonlighters. I think people have every right to question this new vision because that is exactly what is supposed to make Sonlight more than just a booklist.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Asenik

[Shellydon]

This is very true. And to the poster above, who thinks I've been quite rude . . .

 

Can I also add that Sonlight publically attacks those whom they see as using their curriculum as "just a booklist" and thereby "taking advantage of them" in that way?

 

I find it amusing, then, that no one in the Sonlight management or IG design departments had any idea that John had outwardly spoken -- at great depth -- in multiply printed ways, including their own "Instructor Guide" about the embarrassment of the Light and Glory books to not only America but to anyone who calls themselves Christian.

 

And yet, because we now hear that "Sarita has always chosen the books," she had no knowledge of John's opinion on this matter? It is obvious that someone somewhere along knew John's opinion and printed it in the IG so that we might all know John's opinion -- as if that was an important fact for us to know.

 

But maybe Sonlight IS JUST A BOOKLIST -- in Sarita's eyes. Maybe that's why no one even bothered to look and read what John had previously said about these embarrassing books.

 

But let's just use the books that are embarrassing to anyone who calls themself a Christian on the 5th day -- then, I suppose, it should be okay. Well, hmmm.

 

Whatever you think about Sarita now, and Sonlight, it does not change this very OBVIOUS turn of events -- from what is WAS to what it now IS.

 

If my husband wrote an opinion piece about a book series, I do not think I should call it a personal attack on me if someone were to point out that he disagrees with me -- that he had publically disagreed with me.

 

If John Holzmann disagrees with Sarita Holzmann on books that embarrass the name Christian, I do not see that I should not have a problem with that situation as well, and yes, ask the company of Sonlight to explain. Those customers who are new and want to accept what Sarita is selling, go ahead. I have no problem with you. In fact, that has nothing to do with this situation at all. The truth is, Sarita and Amy want us to believe that nothing has changed when maybe, in fact, absolutely everything has changed. If a book that used to be embarrassing to a Christian is okay now, that is an about-face which I think deserves a further explanation. Rudeness has nothing to do with it. They want me to trust them, and I want to trust them. Right now, I cannot.

 

 

So John has made written comments on the new, updated version of the book in which you are referring?

[GWOB]

How sad for you that everything you read that I am saying and you don't know me at all, is nothing but condescending. I don't know that I have even seen a post of yours before now. I loved Sonlight, totally supported it, bought things from them that maybe I could have gotten cheaper some where else. Told others about them. In fact I just met with a lady and spent 2 hours with her talking about Sonlight and how to use it, gave her one of the coveted 2010 catalogs.

 

But 17 years with a business, did give me a different feel for it. What many of us have tried to say it wasn't just a company to us, it was family.

 

yes I agree don't want it to stay stagnant but I also don't want it to go in a direction that is far off the course it was on. That is what we are seeing.

 

I think Sonlight is about to do much more hand holding than they ever did in the past with the newer IGs.

 

What is so hard for newer people to get and what several of us have said it wasn't just a company with John at the head, but a large extended family. That is what has brought out the passion in people.

 

I am a newer Sonlight user. I just purchased my first core (D+E) in January. I chose Sonlight because, as a member of a mainline Protestant denomination, I felt as though they were my only choice for a scheduled curriculum. I held out for a long time. I had many excuses why I shouldn't buy a core. I have an aversion to overtly Christian curriculum companies because they seem to be "my way or the highway" types. After talking to many long-time Sonlight users, I realized that, while Sonlight didn't hide their Christianity, they didn't shove their flavor of Jesus down your throat.

 

Then the changes started rolling out:glare:. At first I was ticked that they would include Bible and LA in the cores. After a few days, I could see their point. I thought I could work with those changes. While the included Bible resources may not be our flavor of Jesus, it could be informative. Plus, while I am happy with my current LA programs, I could always use some of Sonlight's writing assignments (since I have a hard time coming up with writing assignments).

 

The THUMB thing and the inclusion of The Light and the Glory (which, btw, is only a REPRINT, not a REVISION) really, really bugged me. Now it seems like Sonlight IS in fact trying to shove their specific flavor of Jesus down our throats. Again, I thought I would gradually learn to accept those changes and work around them. Then I saw what was happening on the forums. All opposition was squashed. Questions about the books were answered in a snarky, condescending manner (if they were addressed at all). Threads dissappeared. Unfavorable comments were edited, even on threads not directly related to the changes. It seriously creeped me out. And it made me sad.

 

I had finally found a home. Sonlight has been everything I expected it would be. My kids are absolutely loving it. They love the books. We are having such wonderful discussions. They are following rabbit trails. They now love school.

 

It really stinks that I may have to leave Sonlight on principle. After reading tons of threads about various kerfuffles, apparently I, as a mainline Protestant, am no longer their target audience. I have no idea where I am supposed to go. The fundie Evangelicals have their homeschooling advocates and curriculum providers (VF, Ken Ham, BF, HOD, HSLDA, etc.). THe Reformed people have TOG and VP. The Catholics have all kinds of cool stuff. Where do I belong? I thought it was Sonlight, but I guess I was wrong.:001_unsure:

[Jonibee]

I watched the video that someone upthread mentioned on YouTube by John Holzmann, giving the history of the company. In the last 10 minutes or so of the video, he explains his personal heartache with personal attacks by another "Christian" about his young earth/old earth beliefs, and then nearly deciding to commit suicide. He even names a particular date of his decision.

 

So everything changes when a person gets that low. Other people step in and takeover what you can no longer handle. I am sure that was the beginning of the end, but I didn't realize it all until this year. I researched CHEC and Ken Ham and John Holzmann, and there is a whole story there that I had no idea until last week that was going on. Do yourselves a favor and google a few things. Tim Martin had a blog entry a mile long, telling the whole story with links to all of the sources and John's blog entries. Heartbreaking, what the Christians of the world can do to each other.

 

I still say John's notes taught me to be a questioner, a searcher for truth. Sarita has written a program to sell and still calls it Sonlight, but it is not the same curriculum that my older kids grew up on. John stated publically that he would not have touched those Light and Glory books with a 10-foot pole, so to speak, so I just cannot deny that Sonlight has changed.

 

So again, after all these years, I have choices to make. You want the new Sonlight? It has a lot of great features. But it's like that saying . . . "It's not your mama's _____!" And this new Sonlight is all Sarita. For the past few years, I've been in denial about it, but this year most especially, it has become quite clear.

 

I am sorry, smilesonly, that you are offended by my words. Look at the bright side, I'll soon get over my disappointment and will have moved on or made peace with it. I'm not out to get Sonlight. They are quite a large company and I'm just some lady on the Internet. As Amy said to another long-timer on the SL Forum, I've had a good run with Sonlight. If I choose to go elsewhere, well, maybe it's time.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Jonibee

[kardamom]

But if Sarita and the Board of Directors, (or whatever organization the company has set up), has a set of beliefs that support this view, wouldn't it be less than courageous to continue Sonlight has it has been? This can't have been an easy change to make and I admire Sarita for being willing to take the heat.

 

I haven't read this thread that closely, so forgive me if you've posted elsewhere to make the answer obvious, but you do realize that Sarita wasn't hired by the Board to replace John, but that this was a Mom and Pop business Sarita and John started in their garage years ago?

 

Sarita has always been president. John has been the public relations face of the business, in charge of customer service, marketing, and otherwise actively involved, who people saw and felt they knew.

 

If John and Sarita always had different views, it wasn't all that obvious -- and now it doesn't shock me that the customers who loved Mom and Pop from way back would be wondering if it was just Pop who loved them back, and feeling more than a tad betrayed, and a bit hurt that Mom and the kids notice being used as a book list more than appreciating the dollars spent by the loyal customers over the years that could have gone somewhere else?

[Jonibee]

Sarita has always been president. John has been the public relations face of the business, in charge of customer service, marketing, and otherwise actively involved, who people saw and felt they knew.

 

 

Okay, and it is not the public relations face of the business, the customer service, the marketing and being otherwise involved -- the HEART of the business -- the part that connects with the outside world -- the part that draws in the customers and gets them to stay?

 

If all that is gone, what is left? A shell. A heartless company that is, as I said above, a business above all. Nickles and dimes, dollars and dollars. So we are all agreeing that Sonlight is becoming just another one of those homeschool curriculums. Just another one. As heartless as BJU or Abeka. A company. A business. Don't talk back. We don't care.

[razorbackmama]

I had finally found a home. Sonlight has been everything I expected it would be. My kids are absolutely loving it. They love the books. We are having such wonderful discussions. They are following rabbit trails. They now love school.

 

It really stinks that I may have to leave Sonlight on principle. After reading tons of threads about various kerfuffles, apparently I, as a mainline Protestant, am no longer their target audience. I have no idea where I am supposed to go. The fundie Evangelicals have their homeschooling advocates and curriculum providers (VF, Ken Ham, BF, HOD, HSLDA, etc.). THe Reformed people have TOG and VP. The Catholics have all kinds of cool stuff. Where do I belong? I thought it was Sonlight, but I guess I was wrong.:001_unsure:

If you ever find where you belong, let me know, because I'm thinking I belong there too. I completely and 100% agree with everything you said.

 

We are in our 11th year of homeschooling. Not until THIS YEAR (and actually just before Christmas!) have my kids finally started enjoying history - because of Sonlight. Even my book-hating kids are begging for more. It is not uncommon for me to think to myself, "WHAT ON EARTH????" because it's such a drastic shift.

 

But in all their talk of "having me in mind" when they redid the IGs, I wonder, did they REALLY? Because clearly they DIDN'T.

 

On the one hand, I love what we are doing now so I want to buy up all the current IGs we are missing and then just hang onto them. But then I wonder if it will be hard to find the books from other vendors later, and I wonder if I'm supporting all this [insert something because I don't even know what to call what all is going on!]. I'm being swayed by other curriculums - many of which I have used and been unhappy with. Sigh.

[Shellydon]

Then the changes started rolling out:glare:. At first I was ticked that they would include Bible and LA in the cores. After a few days, I could see their point. I thought I could work with those changes. While the included Bible resources may not be our flavor of Jesus, it could be informative. Plus, while I am happy with my current LA programs, I could always use some of Sonlight's writing assignments (since I have a hard time coming up with writing assignments).

 

The THUMB thing and the inclusion of The Light and the Glory (which, btw, is only a REPRINT, not a REVISION) really, really bugged me.

 

 

The bolded is incorrect. The new edition has been revised and expanded. It is not just a reprint

http://www.christianbook.com/light-glory-revised-expanded-edition-1787/peter-marshall/9780800732714/pd/732714

[Shellydon]

If you ever find where you belong, let me know, because I'm thinking I belong there too. I completely and 100% agree with everything you said.

 

We are in our 11th year of homeschooling. Not until THIS YEAR (and actually just before Christmas!) have my kids finally started enjoying history - because of Sonlight. Even my book-hating kids are begging for more. It is not uncommon for me to think to myself, "WHAT ON EARTH????" because it's such a drastic shift.

 

But in all their talk of "having me in mind" when they redid the IGs, I wonder, did they REALLY? Because clearly they DIDN'T.

 

On the one hand, I love what we are doing now so I want to buy up all the current IGs we are missing and then just hang onto them. But then I wonder if it will be hard to find the books from other vendors later, and I wonder if I'm supporting all this [insert something because I don't even know what to call what all is going on!]. I'm being swayed by other curriculums - many of which I have used and been unhappy with. Sigh.

 

 

The current IGs that you so love were bashed and hated when they came out by the same old-timers that are bashing the the newest IGs - which no one has actually seen or used. If Sonlight is working, use it.

[kardamom]

Okay, and it is not the public relations face of the business, the customer service, the marketing and being otherwise involved -- the HEART of the business -- the part that connects with the outside world -- the part that draws in the customers and gets them to stay?

 

If all that is gone, what is left? A shell. A heartless company that is, as I said above, a business above all. Nickles and dimes, dollars and dollars. So we are all agreeing that Sonlight is becoming just another one of those homeschool curriculums. Just another one. As heartless as BJU or Abeka. A company. A business. Don't talk back. We don't care.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I'm not an old-timer customer from way back, but I came in when John wasn't long gone -- and it was his 27 reasons NOT to buy that drew me in.

 

I can't work with their new cores. I'm set for a year or two, but if they keep on this track, I will probably have to move on elsewhere myself.

 

I'm not as invested in the company, but I can certainly understand why others are upset.

[Jonibee]

The current IGs that you so love were bashed and hated when they came out by the same old-timers that are bashing the the newest IGs - which no one has actually seen or used. If Sonlight is working, use it.

 

This is not true and you are seriously mistaken. These old-timers have pretty much only "bashed" the upper level IGs, which were a logistic nightmare prior to last year (not because of their content), and the catalog having descriptions taken out -- and the forum poofs and lack of customer interaction anymore, etc.

 

The bashing of lower level IG has only begun in earnest this year -- because of Sarita's video and the sample available at the website. It is on the sample that the L&G books were noticed.

[Kathryn]

The only hope that I can offer is that they are still using Hakim's series for American History in the older years. That is most certainly NOT providential. So if they have a series that is, that is only selected readings on the optional fifth day, and a series that is NOT, that is used as a spine, I think it probably, hopefully, means the curriculum is not laced with providential secret leanings.

 

Yes, Amy mentioned the Hakim books by name as an embarrassment for how "liberal" they are and the pages and pages of notes they have to write to counter them.

 

I just want to point out that there is a difference between providential - God has his hand on history because he is sovereign and in control - and - America is God's chosen land.

 

The former is a biblical truth throughout scripture the latter is simply someone's contrived viewpoint

 

Very good point!

 

Yes. She also commented on there being lots of errors in SWB's SOTW.

 

Yes, SOTW was mentioned as an embarrassment to use for the ages recommended for cores G and H also.

 

 

are the posts where Amy talked about Story of the US and SOTW still up or were they locked or deleted? If they are there, can we get a link? Thanks!

 

They've been locked and the content of the threads hidden. If you're a member over there, they were the two most recently locked threads on the Suggestion Box board if they ever reopen them. But I suspect Amy revealed too much information about her own or the company's thoughts and they won't be back.

[HappyCrazyMama]

The bolded is incorrect. The new edition has been revised and expanded. It is not just a reprint

http://www.christianbook.com/light-glory-revised-expanded-edition-1787/peter-marshall/9780800732714/pd/732714

 

That's not the children's version. This is the young reader's edition, http://www.amazon.com/Light-Glory-Young-Readers-The/dp/0800733738/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332172261&sr=1-4

 

 

• Reading level: Ages 9 and up
  
• Paperback: 186 pages
  
• Publisher: Revell; Reprint edition (November 1, 2011)
  
• Language: English
  
• ISBN-10: 0800733738
  
• ISBN-13: 978-0800733735
  

So we shall see.

[Kathryn]

more replies w/i your quotes. hod? are you kidding me? talk about theology being shoved down your throat. and, i highly doubt that carrie would allow an "anything" goes forum policy.

 

 

 

replies above.

 

 

 

that is rude and incredibly condescending.

 

how sad it would be if a company never made changes. how stale and sterile, actually.

 

umm. sl is a company, with employees to pay, bills to pay. i don't expect them to cater to my every hsing need, nor would i want them to be spineless and bow down to complaints of "old-timers" while totally disregarding the average customer.

 

 

 

You strike me as someone who has absolutely no clue what is going on. I won't even bother to counter your "points" as they're so out there as to have no bearing on the conversation.

 

But if Sarita and the Board of Directors, (or whatever organization the company has set up), has a set of beliefs that support this view, wouldn't it be less than courageous to continue Sonlight has it has been? This can't have been an easy change to make and I admire Sarita for being willing to take the heat.

 

What would be courageous would be to openly discuss the change of course and let people decide for themselves based on real information whether or not they want to use Sonlight, instead of relying on the reputation they built up under John.

 

I think several people have already said that it is looking like the "John years" truly were the aberration and that Sarita has always seen things this way. It is her company, and her ultimate responsibility.

 

I see her decisions as more cowardly than courageous though. Again, personal opinion not attack. But if she always felt this way, why let John and his ideas mislead so many people as to what Sonlight was really about? If Sonlight had always been true to itself, they would not have a large vocal minority feeling betrayed about how they have "changed.". Maybe it was just poor communication or lack of communication from Sarita, but she was there while John was so vocal and never then said otherwise. Her viewpoints only came to the forefront after CHEC and the like decided to challenge their status as a Christian company.

 

If this was always Sonlight, all these people who are so upset would never have bought into the vision to begin with. Sarita has every right to change that vision (or take it back to its roots), but people also have every right to feel upset at the changes. Sonlight has always sold the vision as their brand, and people chose Sonlight based on that vision. You could always use the books without it, but it was the vision that made people become Sonlighters. I think people have every right to question this new vision because that is exactly what is supposed to make Sonlight more than just a booklist.

 

EXACTLY!

 

I am a newer Sonlight user. I just purchased my first core (D+E) in January. I chose Sonlight because, as a member of a mainline Protestant denomination, I felt as though they were my only choice for a scheduled curriculum. I held out for a long time. I had many excuses why I shouldn't buy a core. I have an aversion to overtly Christian curriculum companies because they seem to be "my way or the highway" types. After talking to many long-time Sonlight users, I realized that, while Sonlight didn't hide their Christianity, they didn't shove their flavor of Jesus down your throat.

 

Then the changes started rolling out:glare:. At first I was ticked that they would include Bible and LA in the cores. After a few days, I could see their point. I thought I could work with those changes. While the included Bible resources may not be our flavor of Jesus, it could be informative. Plus, while I am happy with my current LA programs, I could always use some of Sonlight's writing assignments (since I have a hard time coming up with writing assignments).

 

The THUMB thing and the inclusion of The Light and the Glory (which, btw, is only a REPRINT, not a REVISION) really, really bugged me. Now it seems like Sonlight IS in fact trying to shove their specific flavor of Jesus down our throats. Again, I thought I would gradually learn to accept those changes and work around them. Then I saw what was happening on the forums. All opposition was squashed. Questions about the books were answered in a snarky, condescending manner (if they were addressed at all). Threads dissappeared. Unfavorable comments were edited, even on threads not directly related to the changes. It seriously creeped me out. And it made me sad.

 

I had finally found a home. Sonlight has been everything I expected it would be. My kids are absolutely loving it. They love the books. We are having such wonderful discussions. They are following rabbit trails. They now love school.

 

It really stinks that I may have to leave Sonlight on principle. After reading tons of threads about various kerfuffles, apparently I, as a mainline Protestant, am no longer their target audience. I have no idea where I am supposed to go. The fundie Evangelicals have their homeschooling advocates and curriculum providers (VF, Ken Ham, BF, HOD, HSLDA, etc.). THe Reformed people have TOG and VP. The Catholics have all kinds of cool stuff. Where do I belong? I thought it was Sonlight, but I guess I was wrong.:001_unsure:

 

I am Episcopalian and heading to TOG. I feel like its the strongest option academically and I'll use Sonlight as a book list for historical fiction. I've investigated it a lot and from everying I've seen, the Reformed rhetoric has mostly been edited out in the Redesigned series. They've moved in the opposite direction from Sonlight, trying to appeal to a broader audience of Christians.

[Kathryn]

I haven't read this thread that closely, so forgive me if you've posted elsewhere to make the answer obvious, but you do realize that Sarita wasn't hired by the Board to replace John, but that this was a Mom and Pop business Sarita and John started in their garage years ago?

 

Sarita has always been president. John has been the public relations face of the business, in charge of customer service, marketing, and otherwise actively involved, who people saw and felt they knew.

 

If John and Sarita always had different views, it wasn't all that obvious -- and now it doesn't shock me that the customers who loved Mom and Pop from way back would be wondering if it was just Pop who loved them back, and feeling more than a tad betrayed, and a bit hurt that Mom and the kids notice being used as a book list more than appreciating the dollars spent by the loyal customers over the years that could have gone somewhere else?

 

Okay, and it is not the public relations face of the business, the customer service, the marketing and being otherwise involved -- the HEART of the business -- the part that connects with the outside world -- the part that draws in the customers and gets them to stay?

 

If all that is gone, what is left? A shell. A heartless company that is, as I said above, a business above all. Nickles and dimes, dollars and dollars. So we are all agreeing that Sonlight is becoming just another one of those homeschool curriculums. Just another one. As heartless as BJU or Abeka. A company. A business. Don't talk back. We don't care.

 

Agree.

 

The bolded is incorrect. The new edition has been revised and expanded. It is not just a reprint

http://www.christianbook.com/light-glory-revised-expanded-edition-1787/peter-marshall/9780800732714/pd/732714

 

That's the adult version. The children's version says REPRINT. At any rate, it doesn't matter what it is, no revision could erase the thesis of the book. It just wouldn't be a revision but a different book if it suddenly didn't make the claims that the earlier version did.

[Tenaj]

 

What would be courageous would be to openly discuss the change of course and let people decide for themselves based on real information whether or not they want to use Sonlight, instead of relying on the reputation they built up under John.

 

 

Oh, I completely agree. They need to just send out the new cataloge, put the samples and be done with it! This teasing every year is ridiculous. Putting the information out in little chunks, especially this year when there are major changes going on is just adding to the frenzy. Tell us what is going on completely and be honest about the first time!

[HappyCrazyMama]

<snip>

I am Episcopalian and heading to TOG. I feel like its the strongest option academically and I'll use Sonlight as a book list for historical fiction. I've investigated it a lot and from everything I've seen, the Reformed rhetoric has mostly been edited out in the Redesigned series. They've moved in the opposite direction from Sonlight, trying to appeal to a broader audience of Christians.

:iagree: I'm thinking of heading back that direction, I used TOG classic for my oldest two and as one heading to EO I was worried about the reformed stance but the latest redesign seems a lot more neutral. Though I don't really know what I'll do in the long run but not only am I not thrilled with the changes my children are not combining well in SL so that is playing into my decision too.

[HappyCrazyMama]

Agree.

That's the adult version. The children's version says REPRINT. At any rate, it doesn't matter what it is, no revision could erase the thesis of the book. It just wouldn't be a revision but a different book if it suddenly didn't make the claims that the earlier version did.

:iagree:

[kardamom]

 

They've been locked and the content of the threads hidden. If you're a member over there, they were the two most recently locked threads on the Suggestion Box board if they ever reopen them. But I suspect Amy revealed too much information about her own or the company's thoughts and they won't be back.

 

I was subscribed to one of those threads, and the posts were landing in my e-mail. It got locked when a poster got on to defend SL and made some rather accusatory comments about the complainers, and there were posts responding to that. It was closed *for the weekend*. It may be a long weekend.

 

I wish people could resist questioning the motives of other posters on threads where SL is actually talking -- it gives them the best excuse to make the thread disappear.

[Tenaj]

I haven't read this thread that closely, so forgive me if you've posted elsewhere to make the answer obvious, but you do realize that Sarita wasn't hired by the Board to replace John, but that this was a Mom and Pop business Sarita and John started in their garage years ago?

 

Sarita has always been president. John has been the public relations face of the business, in charge of customer service, marketing, and otherwise actively involved, who people saw and felt they knew.

 

If John and Sarita always had different views, it wasn't all that obvious -- and now it doesn't shock me that the customers who loved Mom and Pop from way back would be wondering if it was just Pop who loved them back, and feeling more than a tad betrayed, and a bit hurt that Mom and the kids notice being used as a book list more than appreciating the dollars spent by the loyal customers over the years that could have gone somewhere else?

 

I'm sorry, I must have been mis-informed. I seemed to remember from the very first catalogue I received way back in the dark ages, that the company was originally started by Sarita with another homeschool mom? I always assumed that John got more involved later but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

I completely understand why people are so upset. It's always disturbing to have to deal with changes - especially changes that are obviously going to be disruptive. I imagine they are going to lose a great number of customers over this. They may also gain from a different market? I don't know. It will be interesting to see how it all falls out in the end.

[ktgrok]

You strike me as someone who has absolutely no clue what is going on. I won't even bother to counter your "points" as they're so out there as to have no bearing on the conversation.

 

 

 

What would be courageous would be to openly discuss the change of course and let people decide for themselves based on real information whether or not they want to use Sonlight, instead of relying on the reputation they built up under John.

 

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

 

 

I am Episcopalian and heading to TOG. I feel like its the strongest option academically and I'll use Sonlight as a book list for historical fiction. I've investigated it a lot and from everying I've seen, the Reformed rhetoric has mostly been edited out in the Redesigned series. They've moved in the opposite direction from Sonlight, trying to appeal to a broader audience of Christians.

 

Also Episcopal, and also looking at TOG. I love that they have a button to push on their website to search your library for books before buying, and they will soon be selling used books on their website. I just wish is was more open and go.

[razorbackmama]

This is not true and you are seriously mistaken. These old-timers have pretty much only "bashed" the upper level IGs, which were a logistic nightmare prior to last year (not because of their content),

What were the problems people had with the upper level IGs? And they were corrected last year? The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about buying them but don't want to buy IGs that are a pain to use.

 

The bashing of lower level IG has only begun in earnest this year -- because of Sarita's video and the sample available at the website. It is on the sample that the L&G books were noticed.

I have no idea if my beefs with the upcoming IGs are the same as what an old-timers' are, but my main ones are the inclusion of the LA with the Core and the totally boneheaded way they did the "more flexible" 4- and 5-day schedules. The L&G books are somewhat concerning to me, but I was hoping to just end up buying IGs over the next few years and then hang onto them for older kids, so I was optimistic (possibly wrongly optimistic) that I'd have them all before TOO much of a shift occurred. But since logistics is a HUGE priority of mine (it's why I don't use TOG, to be honest!), I'm thinking about buying up all the IGs before April 2 and then just buying the books as I need them each year.

[Upward Journey]

The bolded is incorrect. The new edition has been revised and expanded. It is not just a reprint

http://www.christianbook.com/light-glory-revised-expanded-edition-1787/peter-marshall/9780800732714/pd/732714

 

I suspect that this is the book that is scheduled though, which does not look like it's been revised. Of course we won't know for sure until we see the new catalog.

 

http://www.christianbook.com/light-and-the-glory-for-children/peter-marshall/9780800754488/pd/54484?product_redirect=1&Ntt=54484&item_code=&Ntk=keywords&event=ESRCP#curr

[kardamom]

I'm sorry, I must have been mis-informed. I seemed to remember from the very first catalogue I received way back in the dark ages, that the company was originally started by Sarita with another homeschool mom? I always assumed that John got more involved later but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

I completely understand why people are so upset. It's always disturbing to have to deal with changes - especially changes that are obviously going to be disruptive. I imagine they are going to lose a great number of customers over this. They may also gain from a different market? I don't know. It will be interesting to see how it all falls out in the end.

 

From their history, the idea was conceived by Sarita and another mom, who helped with making the curriculum (I don't know how long she was involved), but the business was Sarita and John.

[razorbackmama]

I just wish is was more open and go.

This is why I left TOG and why I'm so happy to have found Sonlight. I need open and go.

[Kathryn]

I suspect that this is the book that is scheduled though, which does not look like it's been revised. Of course we won't know for sure until we see the new catalog.

 

http://www.christianbook.com/light-and-the-glory-for-children/peter-marshall/9780800754488/pd/54484?product_redirect=1&Ntt=54484&item_code=&Ntk=keywords&event=ESRCP#curr

 

Why on earth would you expect that they would use the adult version when there is one for children aimed at this particular age group, and the same two versions were available before and the children's version was used?

[Kathryn]

This is why I left TOG and why I'm so happy to have found Sonlight. I need open and go.

 

The weekly vs daily schedule and book choices concerned me at first, okay for a while. But then I realized that I often find it annoying to stop at a certain place SL says each day, but I'm a box checker and I have to do it! I also add in library resources already, so I'm already picking extra books and I like to have the freedom to do so. But I like to have the notes, suggestions and schedule.

Edited March 19, 2012 by kebg11
Correcting iPad's corrections.