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They have samples of the new igs up. :001_smile:

 

Yep - I took a look at both B and D, the two samples they had up. I don't use Sonlight but had been considering it. I definitely will not be using them now. The IG's feel much more preachy and condescending to my faith and beliefs.

 

I guess I will continue to just use them for book lists and screen the books carefully.

 

Someone really needs to create a secular version of Sonlight - it would go over great IMO.

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I just looked through the new IG samples and I think they look great. I love how all the notes are integrated with the weekly schedule. We have always used the 5-day schedule and it doesn't look like their new scheduling would be a negative for us. If I preferred a 4-day schedule, I don't think I'd be as happy as the bible and readers look to be scheduled 5 days a week. It looks like it is only the history and read-alouds that give you the option to cut back to 4 days a week.

 

I love their new laminated maps. Those will make a big difference in actually getting all the mapping done. I have often skipped the comprehension questions in the past because so many times they were about obscure facts that none of us remembered. In looking at the limited amount of samples available, I get the feeling that the questions have been greatly improved.

 

Overall, I think they have made some really positive changes and I may actually buy a new IG for Core G next year even though I already own an older one. That is saying a lot since I've used SL for 7 years and the only other time I ever bought an IG guide new is when they were getting ready to make changes to Core 100 that I was unhappy with. I am very pleasantly surprised by the sample I saw this morning.

 

For those who were worried about the integration of the LA increasing their expense, it looks like they made most of the LA books optional, with the exception of spelling. I think they should have made the spelling optional as well, but if I am understanding everything correctly, you would only have to buy the spelling book with a full core, but not any of the other LA books since they are optional.

 

I do like how they broke the bible reading out by what the parent is to read vs. what the student is to read. I was never clear on whether the kids were supposed to be reading the bible or whether I was when we did Core 3.

 

I don't notice the preachiness, and I'm not particularly religious, but I only did a quick scan of the notes.

 

Lisa

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Yep - I took a look at both B and D, the two samples they had up. I don't use Sonlight but had been considering it. I definitely will not be using them now. The IG's feel much more preachy and condescending to my faith and beliefs.

 

I guess I will continue to just use them for book lists and screen the books carefully.

 

Someone really needs to create a secular version of Sonlight - it would go over great IMO.

 

I would give it another look. SL is so easy to use secularly, maybe with the exception of Core 5. If there are certain notes that bother you, skip them. WP is secular, so you could look at that, but I don't hear too many rave reviews about it.

 

Lisa

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Yep - I took a look at both B and D, the two samples they had up. I don't use Sonlight but had been considering it. I definitely will not be using them now. The IG's feel much more preachy and condescending to my faith and beliefs.

 

I guess I will continue to just use them for book lists and screen the books carefully.

 

Someone really needs to create a secular version of Sonlight - it would go over great IMO.

 

:iagree: I have been going back and forth between going back to Sonlight and just pulling everything together on my own. I definitely won't be using 2012 Core B. It looks like I'll be buying the 2011 IG used if I do use Sonlight at all.

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Yep - I took a look at both B and D, the two samples they had up. I don't use Sonlight but had been considering it. I definitely will not be using them now. The IG's feel much more preachy and condescending to my faith and beliefs.

 

I guess I will continue to just use them for book lists and screen the books carefully.

 

Someone really needs to create a secular version of Sonlight - it would go over great IMO.

 

Agree with this also. I'm glad Core B was one chosen to preview because that's where we'd be next year. I'll take another look this morning, but I was very disappointed by what I saw in B and in D.

 

I don't understand how they're claiming the 4-day program will work since Readers and Bible are still scheduled 5 days.

 

I am a Christian, but I don't like the new stronger emphasis on evangelism and praying for non-Christians to become Christian. I don't like that so many books that are purely mission stories or evangelism attempts are claimed to be history/geography. I don't like the new book I see listed for Core D about "God's Plan for America" (The Light and the Glory). I feel like they're pandering to the very vocal conservative element here and they're shrinking their customer pool.

 

I don't like the LA sample I saw, it doesn't look all that different to me at all, at least not in the ways that caused us to leave SL LA.

 

This has pretty much cemented my leaving Sonlight and using them as a booklist.

Edited by kebg11
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Agree with this also. I'm glad Core B was one chosen to preview because that's where we'd be next year. I'll take another look this morning, but I was very disappointed by what I saw in B and in D.

 

I don't understand how they're claiming the 4-day program will work since Readers and Bible are still scheduled 5 days.

 

I am a Christian, but I don't like the new stronger emphasis on evangelism and praying for non-Christians to become Christian. I don't like that so many books that are purely mission stories or evangelism attempts are claimed to be history/geography. I don't like the new book I see listed for Core D about "God's Plan for America" (The Light and the Glory). I feel like they're pandering to the very vocal conservative element here and they're shrinking their customer pool.

 

I don't like the LA sample I saw, it doesn't look all that different to me at all, at least not in the ways that caused us to leave SL LA.

 

This has pretty much cemented my leaving Sonlight and using them as a booklist.

 

I'll have to look at the samples again, but SL has always had bits in it that do this. We just skip them. Like I said, I'm not particularly religious. It has never been a problem. We're doing Core 5 right now and we have cut the book that has you praying for all the poor non-christians around the world. I can't stomach that.

 

I never buy full cores, though, either. I buy a used IG and most of my books off of Amazon using their 4-for-3 deal whenever possible. Then I buy whatever is left that I want from SL.

 

I can see where there isn't a true 4 day schedule, though.

 

Lisa

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I'll have to look at the samples again, but SL has always had bits in it that do this. We just skip them. Like I said, I'm not particularly religious. It has never been a problem. We're doing Core 5 right now and we have cut the book that has you praying for all the poor non-christians around the world. I can't stomach that.

 

I never buy full cores, though, either. I buy a used IG and most of my books off of Amazon using their 4-for-3 deal whenever possible. Then I buy whatever is left that I want from SL.

 

I can see where there isn't a true 4 day schedule, though.

 

Lisa

 

I know they've always done it, but it is definitely stepped up this year. Compare the schedule of this year and next for Core B (ETA: Look for THUMB in the schedule and then the accompanying notes):

 

http://www.sonlight.com/attachments/BCG/BCG-sample.pdf This year

 

http://www.sonlight.com/uploads/BCG-Sample.pdf Next year

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Apparently they have put BACK The Light and the Glory in core 3. Holy cow.

 

I'm glad I picked up this core used already, though at least that book is a day 5 book, so it's probably be easy to skip. I'm wondering what other book changes they made.

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I don't like the LA integrated in. I very much might have considered coming back to SL, but I don't like the natural approach to LA. Having the LA schedule with the core just is more paper that I don't need.

 

I do like what I see that they did with the notes. That does look like a huge improvement. Mapping...eh, still undecided about it. Not sure it appeals to me. I really wish SL mapping was more like the mapping in TOG.

 

I will say that the buzz word in video is "intuitive". I didn't count, but it sure was in there A LOT!

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And by taking out Landmark and replacing with Light and the Glory they are sending a clear message that they are no longer secular friendly in the least. That book is full on providentialist propaganda. And there is a whole section in my old core 3 guide devoted to why its a bad choice. What a reversal.

 

Where does it say they replaced Landmark with this book? Landmark doesn't start until week 9 in the old cores, so I couldn't tell if this is a replacement or an addition for day 5.

:lurk5:

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Apparently they have put BACK The Light and the Glory in core 3. Holy cow.

 

Yeah, I referenced that in my first post on this thread. EXTREMELY disappointed in this choice. It is indicative to me, along with other changes I see and things I see and hear on the forums, that this is the direction that Sonlight is moving as a company now that John is gone. I don't want to go there with them. I'm sure that there are people who will be happy with these changes. That's great for them and I'm happy that they'll have Sonlight as a resource. But, it looks like it's just not for me anymore.

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I just looked through the new IG samples and I think they look great. I love how all the notes are integrated with the weekly schedule. We have always used the 5-day schedule and it doesn't look like their new scheduling would be a negative for us. If I preferred a 4-day schedule, I don't think I'd be as happy as the bible and readers look to be scheduled 5 days a week. It looks like it is only the history and read-alouds that give you the option to cut back to 4 days a week.

 

I love their new laminated maps. Those will make a big difference in actually getting all the mapping done. I have often skipped the comprehension questions in the past because so many times they were about obscure facts that none of us remembered. In looking at the limited amount of samples available, I get the feeling that the questions have been greatly improved.

 

Overall, I think they have made some really positive changes

 

I love the changes as well! Cannot wait for the next unveiling, Language Arts!!

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I know they've always done it, but it is definitely stepped up this year. Compare the schedule of this year and next for Core B (ETA: Look for THUMB in the schedule and then the accompanying notes):

 

http://www.sonlight.com/attachments/BCG/BCG-sample.pdf This year

 

http://www.sonlight.com/uploads/BCG-Sample.pdf Next year

 

Yep it's the THUMB part that gets me. The notes for it were extremely condescending to those faiths, and that's not what I want to teach my child.

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Yep - I took a look at both B and D, the two samples they had up. I don't use Sonlight but had been considering it. I definitely will not be using them now. The IG's feel much more preachy and condescending to my faith and beliefs.

 

I guess I will continue to just use them for book lists and screen the books carefully.

 

Someone really needs to create a secular version of Sonlight - it would go over great IMO.

 

I second this! I do not like the changes at all - it seems overly preachy, and I already have to drop books from their old cores because we aren't evangelical christians. Now it appears that they've added in more books and notes that I would have to ignore.

 

I would love a secular version of Sonlight though, all the literature with none of the preaching. I would definitely buy that.

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I know they've always done it, but it is definitely stepped up this year. Compare the schedule of this year and next for Core B (ETA: Look for THUMB in the schedule and then the accompanying notes):

 

http://www.sonlight.com/attachments/BCG/BCG-sample.pdf This year

 

http://www.sonlight.com/uploads/BCG-Sample.pdf Next year

 

I will have to take a look at it. I only looked at the Core D sample schedule. I guess I need to also wait and see what book changes there are as well. I usually pretty much ignore the notes, but if there are going to be lots of books like The Light and the Glory added in to other cores, that would sway me and make me change my mind about using a newer IG. One extra book like that, I'll just skip and think nothing of it. Many additions like that to the cores I will be using and we'll just stick with the older guides.

 

When is the big reveal for book changes scheduled anyway? Or is that info already posted somewhere?

 

Lisa

Edited by LisaTheresa
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Yep it's the THUMB part that gets me. The notes for it were extremely condescending to those faiths, and that's not what I want to teach my child.

 

I don't like the new stronger emphasis on evangelism and praying for non-Christians to become Christian. I don't like that so many books that are purely mission stories or evangelism attempts are claimed to be history/geography.

 

Bolding mine. Exactly!

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They haven't announced that they'll "announce" the book changes, just that when the catalog goes online later this week or next week, we'll see the book changes. (ETA: On the forums, Judy just said that she'll be announcing the book changes, she hopes, in the next few days).

 

I've just searched the Sonlight forums for old threads on the Light and the Glory book and after reading what John said about why the book was pulled in the first place, I am simply gobsmacked that they put this book back in. i'm sure I'm not allowed to quote since it's a private forum, but if you're over there, search for the title in quotes and among other threads of people talking about it, the thread titled "Curious..." contains John Holzmann's explanation of why they pulled the book, including it's massive inaccuracies, misrepresentations of fact, and the embarrassment to Sonlight as a company that deals with a worldwide customer base in carrying such a book.

Edited by kebg11
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Here's a sample in case othes were also looking

 

http://www.sonlight.com/uploads/DCG-Sample.pdf

 

 

Apparently they have put BACK The Light and the Glory in core 3. Holy cow.

 

That's the first thing I noticed, I didn't really read the notes.:ack2: Sure I can drop it and skip notes that I disagree with but I may just be too uncomfortable with the slant/bias of SL as a whole.~sigh~ Combining my kids into cores was not working very well anyway so if I switch it may not seem as great a loss as I feared. I already have Core C for next year but I'm hesitant to continue on, we shall see.

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Bolding mine. Exactly!

 

The missionary stories are the main reason why I think Core F is the one core that I would think would be more difficult to completely secularize. I do have to say, though, that my kids love those missionary stories and find them very inspiring. Again, not real religious here, but it is amazing to read about people who follow their hearts and accomplish things most of us never will. I can see where it would be offensive to some, though.

 

Lisa

Edited by LisaTheresa
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They haven't announced that they'll "announce" the book changes, just that when the catalog goes online later this week or next week, we'll see the book changes. (ETA: On the forums, Judy just said that she'll be announcing the book changes, she hopes, in the next few days).

 

I've just searched the Sonlight forums for old threads on the Light and the Glory book and after reading what John said about why the book was pulled in the first place, I am simply gobsmacked that they put this book back in. i'm sure I'm not allowed to quote since it's a private forum, but if you're over there, search for the title in quotes and among other threads of people talking about it, the thread titled "Curious..." contains John Holzmann's explanation of why they pulled the book, including it's massive inaccuracies, misrepresentations of fact, and the embarrassment to Sonlight as a company that deals with a worldwide customer base in carrying such a book.

 

I will look for that later. This is very disappointing. I have older IGs, but the new ones were sounding so intriguing that I considered buying new ones. I don't think I will now. That attitude towards "unreached peoples" gives me the heeby jeebies.

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I really like how the notes are now with each week now vs. all lumped in the back. I am not familiar with the book choices that are being talked about, but I do love a greater emphasis on missions. I will continue watching as they unveil...

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I would give it another look. SL is so easy to use secularly, maybe with the exception of Core 5. If there are certain notes that bother you, skip them. WP is secular, so you could look at that, but I don't hear too many rave reviews about it.

 

Lisa

 

This could be changing though.

 

 

Long long time SL user.

 

Looks like they are returning to the way the manuals use to be. Probably with way more notes but looks similar to the original teacher's manual's I have had in the past

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This could be changing though.

 

 

Long long time SL user.

 

Looks like they are returning to the way the manuals use to be. Probably with way more notes but looks similar to the original teacher's manual's I have had in the past

 

In my mind, this will all depend on the book changes they make. I think the notes are easily skipped. Or is there something else you are remembering from long ago that I am not thinking of?

 

I'm using Core F this year and haven't touched the bible suggestions, the 100 Gateway Cities, or the Unreached Peoples dvds. I haven't read one note or used any of the comprehension questions, yet we've thoroughly enjoyed the core, had lots of discussions and learned a lot. I don't use SL's LA and don't ever plan to.

 

I was using SL when they used to include the bible in the core, but that's never affected me because I piece my own books together. I can see where it would be a drag for people who want to buy the whole core. But, then again, if you are going to resell the core, I would think you'd regain a lot of your original investment, especially if you bought the whole core new. I'm just trying to understand the changes here and their impact.

 

Lisa

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I think the IG's look wonderful. I didn't notice preachy material. My boys are almost at the high school level and the one core that wasn't changed is H. We are in that core now. I wonder why this core wasn't changed?

 

They've said it's for continuity's sake for those doing Core G this year, so that the changes won't mess them up. I know there has been talk of certain books that belong, time-wise, in H that are in G, so perhaps they're moving books around? Doing a major overhaul like that would be my guess as to why they've held off on changing H because of continuity for those doing G, but not held off on changing C for those doing B, or held off on E for those doing D.

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I think the IG's look wonderful. I didn't notice preachy material. My boys are almost at the high school level and the one core that wasn't changed is H. We are in that core now. I wonder why this core wasn't changed?

 

I thought I had read in one of these SL threads that Core H would be changed next year.

 

Lisa

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I second this! I do not like the changes at all - it seems overly preachy, and I already have to drop books from their old cores because we aren't evangelical christians. Now it appears that they've added in more books and notes that I would have to ignore.

:iagree:

I've been comparing the old and new samples for B, and the old notes were much more factual, whereas the new ones are far more preachy - which I also find really offputting. I'd much rather a straightforward note that I can elaborate on, instead of getting someone else's potted worldview.

 

I do like the notes all being with the weekly schedule though.

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The missionary stories are the main reason why I think Core F is the one core that I would think would be more difficult to completely secularize. I do have to say, though, that my kids love those missionary stories and find them very inspiring. Again, not real religious here, but it is amazing to read about people who follow their hearts and accomplish things most of us never will. I can see where it would be offensive to some, though.

 

Lisa

 

Honestly, I don't find the mission stories offensive. Although not evangelical, I'm a Christian. We've really enjoyed reading through "I Heard Good News Today" this year. I just really, really disagree with so much of the "History/Geography" books in some cores being those that focus on evangelizing the world. I'm absolutely fine with those resources being included, but I think they should be in the Bible portion and more appropriate History/Geography resources should be identified for those topics.

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I would give it another look. SL is so easy to use secularly, maybe with the exception of Core 5. If there are certain notes that bother you, skip them. WP is secular, so you could look at that, but I don't hear too many rave reviews about it.

 

Lisa

 

WP as in WinterPromise? They aren't secular. We tried Animals & Their Worlds and one of the main books was "Big Book of Five-Minute Devotions," Simple devotions that feature different creatures in God's world.

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Honestly, I don't find the mission stories offensive. Although not evangelical, I'm a Christian. We've really enjoyed reading through "I Heard Good News Today" this year. I just really, really disagree with so much of the "History/Geography" books in some cores being those that focus on evangelizing the world. I'm absolutely fine with those resources being included, but I think they should be in the Bible portion and more appropriate History/Geography resources should be identified for those topics.

 

Sorry, I meant the comment about them being offensive to some people to be directed at the people who said they don't like the idea of trying to convert others to christianity.

 

I understand what you are saying, but we are stying India right now and reading William Carey (which takes place in India). We are also reading the World Book and some other factual books on India, but I do think this book gives some of historical content I would want.

 

I might agree with you about the placement of those missionary stories in some of the other cores, but my memory isn't good enough to figure out when and where they were used.

 

Lisa

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I find it strange that some would expect such secular education from a company called "Sonlight". I've only used one core, and I don't plan on using any others, but I knew the company was Christian and expected subjects to be taught from a biblical perspective.

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I've just searched the Sonlight forums for old threads on the Light and the Glory book and after reading what John said about why the book was pulled in the first place, I am simply gobsmacked that they put this book back in.

 

I looked at the Core D sample and The Light and the Glory is only scheduled day 5 of week 1 and week 2, but I don't see it in week 3. Books scheduled on day 5 are totally optional. The website says the day 5 books can be added or subtracted because they stand alone. Supposedly they just add a little "depth" or a different view point. It really doesn't look like Light and the Glory is any more than an option. I could be wrong ....

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I looked at the Core D sample and The Light and the Glory is only scheduled day 5 of week 1 and week 2, but I don't see it in week 3. Books scheduled on day 5 are totally optional. The website says the day 5 books can be added or subtracted because they stand alone. Supposedly they just add a little "depth" or a different view point. It really doesn't look like Light and the Glory is any more than an option. I could be wrong ....

 

Okay, I just read the SL threads on "The Light and the Glory" and I, too, am really surprised that they've brought it back! I've posted over there to see what's up. Is there a revised edition or something?

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Sorry, I meant the comment about them being offensive to some people to be directed at the people who said they don't like the idea of trying to convert others to christianity.

 

I understand what you are saying, but we are stying India right now and reading William Carey (which takes place in India). We are also reading the World Book and some other factual books on India, but I do think this book gives some of historical content I would want.

 

I might agree with you about the placement of those missionary stories in some of the other cores, but my memory isn't good enough to figure out when and where they were used.

 

Lisa

 

That does sound much more on topic than the mission stories that are included in the lower cores in the history/geography section. I wouldn't have a problem at all calling that history/geography as it fleshes out the topic being covered. That's not the case in Cores A and B, at least.

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I find it strange that some would expect such secular education from a company called "Sonlight". I've only used one core, and I don't plan on using any others, but I knew the company was Christian and expected subjects to be taught from a biblical perspective.

 

I don't think anyone expects it to be secular. The problem is not that it's Christian, it's that the particular brand of Christianity promoted has changed considerably in recent years since the departure of John. The company is becoming something that many no longer recognize.

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I looked at the Core D sample and The Light and the Glory is only scheduled day 5 of week 1 and week 2, but I don't see it in week 3. Books scheduled on day 5 are totally optional. The website says the day 5 books can be added or subtracted because they stand alone. Supposedly they just add a little "depth" or a different view point. It really doesn't look like Light and the Glory is any more than an option. I could be wrong ....

 

I'll quote myself from a thread on the SL board right now: "For me, it's not just about buying/using the book or not. It's about what it says to me about where Sonlight as a company sees themselves heading. By reintroducing a book that was eliminated for reasons I wholeheartedly agree with, I see them heading down a path that I personally don't want to follow. I realize that there are people who will be happy about these changes. I'm glad for them that they'll have Sonlight as a company that they feel reflects their worldview. But, I'm sad for myself and others who thought that the company that they were supporting was something else, something that it was under different leadership and is now leaving behind."

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Okay, I just read the SL threads on "The Light and the Glory" and I, too, am really surprised that they've brought it back! I've posted over there to see what's up. Is there a revised edition or something?

 

No revised edition. We're still waiting for answers. There are multiple threads going on at this point. The one I posted this morning is on Meet and Share and it's the longest, but there have been ones started on Dear Sonlight, Suggestion Box, and the publicly accessible one, Choosing Sonlight.

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In my mind, this will all depend on the book changes they make. I think the notes are easily skipped. Or is there something else you are remembering from long ago that I am not thinking of?

 

I'm using Core F this year and haven't touched the bible suggestions, the 100 Gateway Cities, or the Unreached Peoples dvds. I haven't read one note or used any of the comprehension questions, yet we've thoroughly enjoyed the core, had lots of discussions and learned a lot. I don't use SL's LA and don't ever plan to.

 

I was using SL when they used to include the bible in the core, but that's never affected me because I piece my own books together. I can see where it would be a drag for people who want to buy the whole core. But, then again, if you are going to resell the core, I would think you'd regain a lot of your original investment, especially if you bought the whole core new. I'm just trying to understand the changes here and their impact.

 

Lisa

The manuals in the format will probably be okay,

 

but the philosophy is changing that is for sure.

 

Did you check the new lay out and all the excess notes. Yes you can skip them but it really will flavor the choice of books, ie they are adding back in a book that John H wrote a huge article about why it was a bad choice, the Light and the Glory.

 

Oh and I am a Christian and have enjoyed the Christian aspect of SL, but I also know it will not guarantee that your children will be perfect.

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I think the IG's look wonderful. I didn't notice preachy material. My boys are almost at the high school level and the one core that wasn't changed is H. We are in that core now. I wonder why this core wasn't changed?

 

It is part of a 2 year program so they are going to let people finish it out as it was presented. It will change next year.

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