Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thought this would make for an interesting discussion on this forum. I've heard quite a few criticisms regarding teaching children to read too early, but after implementing some of these early learning tactics with my own daughter I have to disagree. At 16 months she has begun reading words I've never showed her before and is able to name all the letters of the alphabet. Most people say it's a little creepy cause she's so small with such an extensive vocabulary. But through this she is better able to communicate her needs and feelings with us. This has led to her being potty trained and very open to new experiences. I feel like if anything at all it makes her feel more confident, and she is well beyond her peers in daycare (which I own). So what would someone see wrong with this? A few days ago out of curiousity I bought a set of second grade sight words and she was able to read about 90% of them proficiently and clearly. These are words she has never worked with in flashcards, but maybe just seen as we read books. Aside from reading she can name all the shapes, tlling the difference between a pentagon and a hexagon. I made a declaration before she was born that she would be able to do most of these things because I had done quite a bit of research about early learning before she was born and throughout my own profession. So she's not gifted or anything... I truly beleive that ANY child cn do these things. She loves to learn as much as play, and we skip days at a time yet she remains proficient. How can we keep arguing against early childhood learning. Doesn't everyone see that if the majority of children entering school were already proficient in basic skills how much that would change the education system, we all know needs to take place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I believe you have a highly gifted dd and that her knowledge base is not something any/every child could attain at 16 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm a believer in early learning, but I also agree with the PP that your daughter's ability to retain that much at that age is very exceptional. To try to force it on a child who could not learn that fast would most likely lead to a dislike of academic learning, and put some kids at risk of vision problems, aside from taking away time they should be spending on developing more fundamental skills which will eventually lead to strong academics. I believe in playfully exposing a child to letters, words, etc., and following their lead. I had one child who was interested in this, and one who would go in the other direction every time I cracked a book. The latter turned out to have significant vision issues which needed to be dealt with before academics. Said latter is now (at 5) a somewhat accelerated reader, which awesome in my book. I think it's awesome what your little girl can do. Best of luck as you work to keep her happily engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How bold of you to make your very first post be this one;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I truly beleive that ANY child cn do these things. This is where you are incorrect. I believe you have a highly gifted dd and that her knowledge base is not something any/every child could attain at 16 months. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I say, come talk to us when you have multiple children who are teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I do see a bit of harm in not following a child's lead and developmental pace. Children can do wonderful things. You have chosen to lay your focus in reading, and from your post it seems to be sight words - a system of memorization. Between 0 and 3 children memorize quite a bit: names, songs, order, dinosaurs..whatever they feel possessed to do. If a child is intrigued by letters/words, they will learn them. However, for most children the interest in using abstract shapes comes after age 3. It is developmentally proper for them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How can we keep arguing against early childhood learning. Doesn't everyone see that if the majority of children entering school were already proficient in basic skills how much that would change the education system, we all know needs to take place? FWIW, I'm fully in favor of early childhood learning, but if you think that's going to do anything to fix the problems with the education system, I have a bridge to sell you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBeaks Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How bold of you to make your very first post be this one;) :iagree: This original post has a really odd tone that says troll but who really knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 How bold of you to make your very first post be this one;) Bold, perhaps, but straight to the point. I heard a theory about genius-syndrome a while ago that I think applies to my passion about early learning. No offense to anyone with a DS child, at all before you read on. But when the avg. person might receive news that their newborn child has DS, certain assumptions about the challenges and the special and sometimes stressful accommodations in their new lives with a DS child must be made. When a doctor tells you your child will never speak, or use the restroom independently, you have to make certin mental prepartions to deal with that. But think now about if a doctor came and told you that your child has GS (genius syndrome) in which he would be able to learn and acquire information much more rapidly than the average child. What if he told you most children with GS will begin reading before the age of 18 months? Well, just like the parent with the DS child you would prepare yourself and your environment to give you child everything they would need to accommodate this heightened intelligence. Well my opinion would be that most children are born with GS, but the proper accommodations to enhance those skills are never being accessed. All ideas and theories, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 All ideas and theories, what do you think? It's a nice theory. But, I've already learned my lesson about bothering with such discussions on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I say, come talk to us when you have multiple children who are teens. :iagree: And how's her spelling? ;) astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 FWIW, I'm fully in favor of early childhood learning, but if you think that's going to do anything to fix the problems with the education system, I have a bridge to sell you... I know... I'm a horrible optimist ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Considering that a 16 month old child in a enriched environment is still within the range of normal to not be saying any words yet, I think your child is not typical. I wouldn't let any early learning time sacrifice a focus on developing complex pretend play skills through. Complex pretend play skills do more for future cognitive skills than early reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Considering that a 16 month old child in a enriched environment is still within the range of normal to not be saying any words yet, I think your child is not typical. I wouldn't let any early learning time sacrifice a focus on developing complex pretend play skills through. Complex pretend play skills do more for future cognitive skills than early reading. So say we all! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 :iagree: And how's her spelling? ;) astrid Lol... It's ok. Like I said she knows all her letters so if you ask her each letter in a big word she'll recite them to you. And I have 85 kids at my center between 6 wks and 12 years so no experience with teens ;) but wish my luck in about 13 years, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 85 kids? Where DO you find the time? Wow... that's a full plate. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Lol... It's ok. Like I said she knows all her letters so if you ask her each letter in a big word she'll recite them to you. And I have 85 kids at my center between 6 wks and 12 years so no experience with teens ;) but wish my luck in about 13 years, lol. Ooooh, you have a center! Color me surprised (or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 So say we all! :tongue_smilie: Uh... So say me too. Just because you dabble in early learning doesn't mean you leave out all the other good stuff... IJS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well, just like the parent with the DS child you would prepare yourself and your environment to give you child everything they would need to accommodate this heightened intelligence. Well my opinion would be that most children are born with GS, but the proper accommodations to enhance those skills are never being accessed. All ideas and theories, what do you think? I think a lot of people right here on this board thought something like that before they had children who did not respond as hoped/expected. I've taught various children to read. I know what it's like to deal with a child who is easy to teach at an early age. (Not necessarily a genius, just a person with an exceptional visual memory and the ability to say the words she can recognize.) But I also know what it's like to show a bright child the same letter 1000 times and have her trace it with her pencil 100 times and still see her draw a blank when asked to name it. I think one of my great blessings in life is having more than one child being raised in the same environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I find it hard to believe that ANY 16 month old can learn 90% of 2nd grade sight words just by "dabbling." But what do I know...... astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Uh... So say me too. Just because you dabble in early learning doesn't mean you leave out all the other good stuff... IJS. My point wasn't about leaving out, but about focus. Maybe some can pull it off, but if a focus is on early reading I'm doubting that the same amount of time and effort is put into expanding play sequences to build more complex play in a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I just can't decide which is better: the brewing aroma of coffee in the morning, or the brewing of controversy in the afternoon. Edited March 12, 2012 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ooooh, you have a center! Color me surprised (or not). :confused: not here for the critics, just opinions pls:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I just can't decide which is better: the brewing aroma of coffee in the morning, or the brewing of controvery in the afternoon. I can't decide which is worse: not having anything controversial to discuss, or having my work get yet farther behind thanks to this board . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I say :lol: I have a 16mo. He points to his diaper and runs to the changing pad when he poops. Despite his enriched home environment, he maybe says 5 words, but not all in one day and not consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I just can't decide which is better: the brewing aroma of coffee in the morning, or the brewing of controversy in the afternoon. Well, you can't have one without the other. ;) And I fixed the typo in the quote, because I love you. I don't do that for just anyone. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I just can't decide which is better: the brewing aroma of coffee in the morning, or the brewing of controvery in the afternoon. Depends on the coffee. I have a french press half full of Starbucks espresso. If it's foldgers drip you might have an uprising on your hands:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I also have an early reader/early learner. The difference is that I didn't make an effort to formally teach her until age 5 (she was in play-based preschool and K at age 3 and 4). She STILL taught herself her letters and sounds from the various books we read together and incidental exposure, was an early talker, had a large vocabulary, and started reading words everywhere by about 15-16 months. By age 5, she was reading at a post-high school level (although I don't think her comprehension, even now, is actually post-high school). I truly believe that there is nothing I could have done that would have kept my DD from being an early reader-she simply was wired for symbolic language early and fascinated by it (and, based on testing, that's exactly what the results were-that she's highly gifted and extremely talented when it comes to symbol and pattern recognition. It was simply that reading was the most obvious indication of that which I couldn't deny early on). If I'd purchased the "your baby could read" type book or kit, I'd probably ascribe her skills to what I did-but since I'd purchased something different indeed (a Master's degree in Early Childhood Education/Child Development) and had a philosophy that formal education in the early years should be kept minimal. And, in fact, by age 2, I was worried on the other end-she had a lot of quirks and strange behaviors, and hyperlexia is sometimes found in children with ASD. I also would like to point out something else, very gently. Early academic development isn't necessarily a gift. For my DD, it has led to a lot of anxiety when she read and absorbed, but didn't fully understand the implications of, content that was accessible to her earlier than it should be. So I had the child who, before age 3, was absolutely hysterical in a hotel waiting room showing the coverage of the VA tech shooting on CNN with the sound off. She'd read the captions and knew that people were killed at a college in VA, knew that her grandfather taught at a college in VA, and was terrified that he was dead. She developed a major fear of thunderstorms because of reading headlines about Killer tornados, and a tornado siren STILL sends her into a panic attack. She picks up FAR too much about bad things that can happen to people, and immediately internalizes it. As she's getting older, she's starting to put things into perspective better, but it's been an ongoing struggle to manage her anxieties, which have been, for the most part, triggered by material that a typical child her age simply wouldn't be able to read yet and which was available EVERYWHERE. Even if we didn't watch TV news at home, and read the newspaper only online when DD wasn't around, she still saw those headlines and coverage (usually with closed captioning on) when we were out and around. Then add the emotional pressures put on a precocious kid. I'm talking about the "She's reading!! WHat did you do to her!?" "What is she, a genius or something?" "What program did you use? Get out of here!" comments that my DD has heard and overheard since she was a toddler-all of which ended up convincing her that she was truly abnormal, different from everyone else, and have made her struggle with feeling like she belongs in the world. That's a heavy load for a child to handle at age 3-and I don't know that I could have avoided my DD facing it short of simply not taking her out in public, ever. The bottom line is, having had a precocious reader, I truly question the benefit to a child of focusing on reading early. Not because of my child development background saying that it's not "developmentally appropriate"-because I know from personal experience that some kids throw out the child development book from day 1-but because of the extra stress reading early has put on my DD. Edited March 12, 2012 by dmmetler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) :confused: not here for the critics, just opinions pls:D Forgive us, if some of us are more jaded to such contrived controversies. eta: I've had a very early reader and two normal readers. They were exposed to reading in the same manner. Edited March 12, 2012 by Mrs Mungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Depends on the coffee. I have a french press half full of Starbucks espresso. If it's foldgers drip you might have an uprising on your hands:D Nothing like viva la revolucion in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I can't decide which is worse: not having anything controversial to discuss, or having my work get yet farther behind thanks to this board . . . . It's funny cause someone mentioned on another post how mentioning EL is like talking religion, and you know how far those conversations usually go ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Mrs Mungo...I saw your reply and thought perhaps you might be whipping out the Mike's a little early:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh... I don't know which approach to take here, lol. I have a high IQ teenager and a bunch of (untested) bright, younger kids. My home is an extremely educational environment. My 15 month old still "reads" books upside down. He speaks many words, but can't enunciate worth a darn. He stores cheese cubes in his diaper and hides toys in the litter box. He fell off the fireplace hearth 3 times today (so far) and doesn't show any signs of learning his lesson. Reading doesn't even exist on my list of priorities right now! (To be fair, it's still at the bottom of my list for my 4.5 year old. :tongue_smilie:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well, just like the parent with the DS child you would prepare yourself and your environment to give you child everything they would need to accommodate this heightened intelligence. What do you suppose education for academically gifted students is [supposed to be] about? The "system" can't even handle that well, for the most part. (have you thought about what will happen when your early reader arrives in a public K? or at preschool? what do schools do with these kids? often they do nothing until at least 3rd grade, because they will "even out" *cough*) Well my opinion would be that most children are born with GS, but the proper accommodations to enhance those skills are never being accessed. All ideas and theories, what do you think? Your assumption is incorrect, by miles. There are actual differences in intelligence levels amongst children, for one thing. Then there really are learning style differences. Then there are kids who develop asynchronously, on their own timeline, or are otherwise late bloomers, like mine - this is especially true during the early years (take my one who had spoken not a word at 3 y.o. and was supposedly severely developmentally delayed; let's just say that he has more than caught up :)) To those of us with older kids, who may have done everything from Teach Your Baby to Read at one end, to Teach Your Child to Read with 100 Easy Lessons at the other, in literature-rich environments, with zero success before age 5, your sense that you have found the key to the universe of early reading comes off as incredibly naive and a bit arrogant. While it's wonderful that you found success with your own child, you really cannot extrapolate that onto other kids. One-size-fits-all does NOT apply, and that is one reason public schools struggle as they flit from theory to theory that seems to work well in a small study group with a talented teacher but does not translate well to widespread practical application. If you want to read more about early childhood learning, my suggestion is that you look into Montessori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks for this post..lots to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 :confused: not here for the critics, just opinions pls:D Sometimes opinions can be critical. :confused: I would like to welcome you to the forum, but also let you know that if you ask for opinions, you're going to get a lot of them -- but you're not always going to like them. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Well, you can't have one without the other. ;) And I fixed the typo in the quote, because I love you. I don't do that for just anyone. :p :tongue_smilie: Don't think I don't appreciate it. It really is unfair of me to participate in such threads, as I have a GS child, who is also a middle child; and that's not easy to manage. His first words to me at birth were, "Good to be out of there. I was so done with Bach & baroque, It was also better without the headphones blaring through your uterus. Not to hurt your feelings, but I'm with Dad and the Beatles. Although I *was* grateful for the Mozart. By the way, this colostrum would be better if it was chocolate." Edited March 12, 2012 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Bold, perhaps, but straight to the point. I heard a theory about genius-syndrome a while ago that I think applies to my passion about early learning. No offense to anyone with a DS child, at all before you read on. But when the avg. person might receive news that their newborn child has DS, certain assumptions about the challenges and the special and sometimes stressful accommodations in their new lives with a DS child must be made. When a doctor tells you your child will never speak, or use the restroom independently, you have to make certin mental prepartions to deal with that. But think now about if a doctor came and told you that your child has GS (genius syndrome) in which he would be able to learn and acquire information much more rapidly than the average child. What if he told you most children with GS will begin reading before the age of 18 months? Well, just like the parent with the DS child you would prepare yourself and your environment to give you child everything they would need to accommodate this heightened intelligence. Well my opinion would be that most children are born with GS, but the proper accommodations to enhance those skills are never being accessed. All ideas and theories, what do you think? Oh good grief. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you have a "center," why do you discuss only the anecdote of your own 16mo child? Aside from flaschards and storybooks, what does an "appropriate learning environment" look like in your opinion, and how does this differ from what other dedicated parents (such as the ones here) provide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujubeesmama Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks for all the posts... Not surprised by the range of responses either. :bigear: like I said I'm a horrible optimist so forgive me my hopes of an improved education system.I also believe that the public schools struggle with the one size fits all approach. In fact I'm more focused on what parents are doing at home before formal schooling begins more than what teachers are doing at school when it comes to early learning. The idea is, I agree, a little Utopian in nature, but can't blame a girl for looking at the glass half full ;) whatever you're doing, keep on keeping on. :) can't wait to see what the future has in store for these kiddos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Whatever happened to...Reya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am puzzled by the juxtaposition of the 85-child day care, research into early childhood learning, and the assertion that every child can learn as readily as your child. Are all of the young children under your care learning at this level? That would make a great case study for early childhood education researchers. I rarely see people arguing that children should not learn to read early. I often see people arguing that young children should not be forced to learn early reading skills before they show signs of developmental readiness. Kudos to you for following your child's lead. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) What an interesting string of posts to introduce yourself to the board. In working with the children at your center you may have noticed that there is a wide range of normal behaviors in young children. I am sure you have seen children receive similar exposure to enrichment yet react in different ways. There are also variations of gifted-ness and developmental impairments. I will admit that I have seen families that failed to cultivate the abilities of their children, but I have also seen parents pushing their child to achieve gifted labeling because it is seen as a status symbol. At any rate I would be careful with affixing labels to a 16mo, and with how I couched her genius when introducing her to the world. The only thing worse (socially) than being developmentally delayed is being gifted with a parent touting it loudly and often. Edited March 13, 2012 by BLA5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) . Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) It would be incorrect to assume that most parents wouldn't love for their young toddler to read, and extremely incorrect to assume that most parents do nothing toward the ultimate goal of reading. On the other hand, there are a lot of other important things kids should be doing besides learning to read. The central nervous system needs to develop properly, for one thing. Let's not even get into vision. I strongly urge you to read Maria Montessori, regardless of your prior assumptions about her methods or what they might look like at the random, supposedly-Montessori school in your area. Honestly. I wouldn't give a hoot if my toddler could read/not read. Not on my radar, and don't care in the least. The world of a toddler is awesome; every freaking thing is new and sparkling. (There is so much I could say here-- about academics, the arts, academic scholarships etc etc about my older kids, but I will spare you.) Edited March 13, 2012 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Nothing like viva la revolucion in the morning. With a stop at cafe with good bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Honestly. I would't give a hoot if my toddler could not read. Not on my radar, and don't care in the least. The world of a toddler is awesome; every freaking thing is new and sparkling. :iagree: We do a lot of sensory play, motor skills play, social skills building, etc. I read to my toddlers - alot. But I'm perfectly happy to let reading wait till prek or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Honestly. I wouldn't give a hoot if my toddler could not read/not read. Not on my radar, and don't care in the least. The world of a toddler is awesome; every freaking thing is new and sparkling. (There is so much I could say here-- about academics, the arts, academic scholarships etc etc about my older kids, but I will spare you.) :iagree::iagree::iagree: Yes, this. Well, except for the "my older kids" part. I've only got one kid! :D astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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