hana Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It may or may not be "true" depending on what one's heritigage really is. Rap music (or whatever the current jargon is) is not anyone's "heritage." It's...I don't even know what it is, but it is certainly not anyone's "heritage." A child whose ancestors come from another country could surely do research to find out where his ancestors came from, and learn about the culture there, but the kind of "music" (because there's lots of stuff that doesn't really count as "music," IMHO) that is played on boom boxes--you know what I'm talking about--is not anyone's "heritage." Hip hop can be traced back through slavery and into African culture, as can many aspect of today's African American culture. This is no small thing. By the way, congratulations on Mr. Ellie's new job! I saw the heading, but haven't read the whole post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think it depends on where you live. I did respite care for foster babies in Souther California several years ago. There were so many foster babies it was unbelieveable. About 50% of them went back to their family of origin, and 50% were adopted. Not all of them were mixed race, but many of them were. There were days that our local intake center could hold no more children. Plenty of babies and toddlers that were adopted, were not adopted by similar races families. It's really no big deal here in So. California, we see mixed families all the time. :iagree: It definitely depends on where you live. Central Cal is not a lot different than southern Cal in that respect. I look at our trans-racial adoption in terms of the very mixed race town in which we live. I also wanted to comment on the Wiki article. That man's comments reminded me of a video we saw in our adoption classes. There was a group of bi-racial adult adoptees sitting around talking and they were very bitter about being raised in white families. However, one thing we noticed is that the video, which was made in the 80's so these kids were adopted in the 60's, was that most of the kids mentioned that their parents adopted them for political reasons. They didn't actually state it in those terms, but it was mentioned many times that their parents were so proud of how "open-minded" they were in adopting trans-racially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Rap music (or whatever the current jargon is) is not anyone's "heritage." It's...I don't even know what it is, but it is certainly not anyone's "heritage." A child whose ancestors come from another country could surely do research to find out where his ancestors came from, and learn about the culture there, but the kind of "music" (because there's lots of stuff that doesn't really count as "music," IMHO) that is played on boom boxes--you know what I'm talking about--is not anyone's "heritage." Aside from your obvious disdain of rap, what you say is not really historically accurate. Although there are subjects that some people rap about that I don't enjoy or appreciate, rap music in terms of structure is a direct descendant of western African music. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 And that's how it should be. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykdsmomy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh one thing I was going to add is that since we live in So Cal and it's sort of a melting pot in terms of race/cultures/diversity. I often talk about moving to a more rural area ...even out of Ca. but dh has pointed out many times that we live in a very "tolerant" area (for lack of a better word). Our transracial family may not be as welcome or as accepted in a predominantly "white" town/county/state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Cottonmama, a lot of folks don't even realize there is a very structured black upper-class. And, no, a good paying job isn't a ticket to be able to marry someone's son or daughter from that group. I just wanted to throw the concept out there to consider, since some comments were only equating black culture with the lower socio-economic classes. You need to consider that your child may not fit into anything but the middle class, and hope that is a comfortable fit. For a lot of Americans, it sure is. (Of all stripes!) :) There's some good and not so good books out on Amazon. You could search on "black upper class" to see if something appeals to you. In addition to the great book suggestions listed in other responses, I'd also suggest reading some books written by black authors like Thomas Sowell and other famous black Americans, esp. books that deal with race or growing up. They can be quite insighful to your present questions. I don't think people shouldn't cross ethnic lines (heck, I wouldn't exist if that were so!), but I do know that an educated parent of a different ethnicity can do a much better job than one who isn't educated. I constantly get complimented in Chinese/Japanese/Korean restaurants because my children handle their chopsticks properly. My Mom was adamant that her children have excellent table manners. I did my best on my own to figure out good manners by culture as I became an adult. I remember my dh commenting on our first dinner together (not a date) that I didn't hold my chopsticks like a white person. I passed along the trait, and my kids definitely don't eat as though their Mama is white. :tongue_smilie: Apparently, the fact I bothered to crack the code is fairly impressive to Asian folks working in restaurants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It may or may not be "true" depending on what one's heritigage really is. Rap music (or whatever the current jargon is) is not anyone's "heritage." It's...I don't even know what it is, but it is certainly not anyone's "heritage." Is this ANY music, or just rap? I think there are definitely families where music is part of their family culture. I've known them myself, and there are famous musical families like the Bachs in classical music and the Marsalis family in jazz. I know a big part of my grandma's culture -- and a big part of how I think of her -- has to do with the music she sings. I probably sing more little ditties from her than cook like her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelle l Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 We are also a transracial family. Aditionally, I am an adult adoptee. Adoptees can struggle more than the general population with issues of identity. Adoptees in closed adoptions (and most international adoptions would fal into this category) have no genetic mirroring available to connect them to ...well, to anything. This experience of looking like others or seeing your characteristeics, talents, etc. reflected in others is important in developing identity and in seeing oneself as connected to the world. The adoptee has extra emotional work to do, and the transracially adopted person has an even more complex task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelle l Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I don't think my kids have given one thought about what race they are, what race I am or why no one looks alike. I seriously think they just don't give a &^%$. I'm not interested in connecting them to any culture - our family is our culture. :confused: No one in our household really talks about race or racism. I think we should care about what race our children are. It is an important, awsome part of their being. My daughter is Korean. I love her Korean-ness. It's part of who she is. I think I honor her much more by talking about that with her and aknowledging the fact that she is Asian. She may or may not struggle with being a different race than we are. She might be fine now, but experience a period of struggle later. I've read many adult transricially adoptee adoptees (raised in white families) who talk about having to come to terms with their race because they felt white and thought of themselves as white. The person they saw in the mirror did not match the person they thought of themselves as being, and it took a lot of work to finally come to terms with that. My dd is Asian. She is Korean. And that's just great. : ) Edited March 13, 2012 by michelle l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Look, I could only skim this thread, because - honestly - :eek:. We're a multi-racial family. I'm blond with blue eyes and my kids are Korean. I don't think my kids have given one thought about what race they are, what race I am or why no one looks alike. I seriously think they just don't give a &^%$. I'm not interested in connecting them to any culture - our family is our culture. :confused: No one in our household really talks about race or racism. The family next door to us are also multi-racial - they're black and Puerto Rican. Our kids play together all the time. And to blow even more stereotypes, we are in a really nice, upper-middle class area in Texas. ;) Over the last 10 years, we have had a small handful of comments from strangers. And the comments weren't malicious, just made the person in question seem like they haven't been out of the house since the '50s. I did have someone ask me how do you see your kids as yours when they don't look like you. :confused: Ummmm. I cook for them, clean up all their cr%p, do their laundry, drive them all over the place, play Wii with them and they treat me like an ATM. Yep, they're MINE! :tongue_smilie: I love this! My dh and I are Caucasian, as are our four boys by birth. Our daughters are bi-racial and black. We have friends of all colors, go to church with people of all colors, and it has not been an issue for us at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think we should care about what race our children are. It is an important, awsome part of their being. My daughter is Korean. I love her Korean-ness. It's part of who she is. I think I honor her much more by talking about that with her and aknowledging the fact that she is Asian. She may or may not struggle with being a different race than we are. She might be fine now, but experience a period of struggle later. I've read many adult transricially adoptee adoptees (raised in white families) who talk about having to come to terms with their race because they felt white and thought of themselves as white. The person they saw in the mirror did not match the person they thought of themselves as being, and it took a lot of work to finally come to terms with that. My dd is Asian. She is Korean. And that's just great. : ) We do talk about race. I got "dressed down" in a black beauty shop last week in the nicest way possible for waiting too long to bring my girls in. My girls thought it was hilarious. They started taking up for me, and told the hair lady, "She's doing the best she can. She's white!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't think my kids have given one thought about what race they are, what race I am or why no one looks alike. I seriously think they just don't give a &^%$. I'm not interested in connecting them to any culture - our family is our culture. :confused: No one in our household really talks about race or racism. Honestly, I think that's rare. And your kids are still relatively young. It may change quite a bit when they become teenagers. We have had discussions of race and culture because our children brought them up. My son, my youngest child, is the one with the largest sense of loss and identity issues concerning his adoption and living in a majority-white family. I am his mom; it's not that he questions that. But it does bother him that he doesn't look like his mom and dad, and the questions he gets bother him, and the "why didn't my mom want me?" bothers him. Being adopted is sometimes not easy for him. He is visibly adopted, and he doesn't always want to be. He doesn't always want to be different. He doesn't always want his personal history evident. I have always said to people that question my concerns regarding race and adoption, "It's fine now that he's this gorgeous little boy with huge eyes and awesome hair. Everybody loves him now. But how will they feel when he is a 16 year old black teenager who wants to date their daughter?" Obviously, our family friends wouldn't care, but my son will not always only be exposed to our environment. He will be a young black man out in a world that looks on young black men with suspicion, at best, and revulsion at worst. He will probably feel "white," or like a member of the [insert last name here] family, or like an immigrant from his country, but he will be seen as a young black man. Many people are threatened by that. I think it will be hard for him to encounter that, having grown up in a family that doesn't face that type of thing every day. (Not that it's easy for those who grow up in black families, either.) Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hana Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 No one in our household really talks about race or racism. This is privilege. My daughter is surrounded by racism on a daily basis. She can't read the newspaper or watch the news without seeing that people who look like she does are not treated fairly. If we didn't talk about that, we would be doing her a terrible injustice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It took my oldest son a while to start making comments about his skin color. It's been within the past year that he's started talking about it and he's 8. Other kids mention it. He's bi-racial. Black and Hispanic. His ethnicity is always questioned because he looks neither black nor hispanic. His skin is pretty dark, though. I've always just left the door open for him to talk about it and when he brings it up I try to answer his questions, but he never seems to have questions. He just makes remarks about the color of his skin. Stuff like, "I don't need a lot of sunscreen because my skin is so dark it doesn't burn!" Oh, he did ask once if he was born in Africa. I told him, "no, you were born in Fresno, but I'm sure an ancestor of yours was born in Africa." And that was it. Conversation over. He was on to other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Wolf is Metis, MIL is white. It's certainly caused some issues, even setting aside that MIL is a nut bunny. He's not accepted by the vast majority of his birth family, and has been called an 'apple' to his face (red on the outside, white on the inside) :glare: Marrying me just cemented that. He knows diddly of his heritage. The history, language, etc...gone. B/c of the differences, and the resentment expressed towards him, he'll never fully get into his heritage. That being said, it was also the era of the 'taken children' as it's referred to by those aware of the situation. Back when Wolf was adopted, it was basically SOP to take First Nations children from their parents and place them in white families...or residential schools. Not a proud moment in Canadian history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 That being said, it was also the era of the 'taken children' as it's referred to by those aware of the situation. Back when Wolf was adopted, it was basically SOP to take First Nations children from their parents and place them in white families...or residential schools. Not a proud moment in Canadian history. something similar happened in Australia, it is referred to as the 'stolen generation' here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 something similar happened in Australia, it is referred to as the 'stolen generation' here. Rabbit-Proof Fence is an excellent movie about that. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Both of my kids were adopted at birth and both are bi-racial. Usually the only people I hear saying that they don't like it are black. When I ask them how many black babies/children they've adopted, their answer is always "none". I usually tell them when they start adopting these kids and encouraging others to do the same, then they can come back and complain to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 My mother is white and my older brother is black. She later married and had me and my younger brother and her husband/our dad adopted my older brother. I think people who think that race is no big deal and that they or others are color blind (or that being color blind is the ideal anyways) are naive at the very best. I am not saying that biracial families should not be formed by adoption or birth but I am saying that the issues inherent in being a multiracial family or being raised in a culture where you are not represented or respected are not simple. I do think that white parents, like mine, with a minority child, need to be proactive and not simply assume that they are or will be no issues. I am in my early 30s. We lived all over, but mainly in states that do not spring to mind when racism is mentioned and the stories of overt racism, intolerance and once violence that I witnessed my brother and my family deal with not all that long ago are truly awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) It may or may not be "true" depending on what one's heritigage really is. Rap music (or whatever the current jargon is) is not anyone's "heritage." It's...I don't even know what it is, but it is certainly not anyone's "heritage." A child whose ancestors come from another country could surely do research to find out where his ancestors came from, and learn about the culture there, but the kind of "music" (because there's lots of stuff that doesn't really count as "music," IMHO) that is played on boom boxes--you know what I'm talking about--is not anyone's "heritage." OT alert! This is one of my biggest pet peeves. It most definitely is part of my cultural/musical history:confused:. Music is a part of heritage or more specifically culture. Rap music is the singular most significant influence in popular music in the last 35 years. It most certainly is music and not "music". You are not the judge of what counts as music. Far too many people declare that music they don't like or understand is not music. This is most commonly said of country and rap music. I think it is cultural bias to say that what other people like as music does not count as real music. I personally dislike boy band pop, reggae, many modern hymns and a fair bit of big band music. I don't get to declare that those types of music are not music or that they are not important to many people. Looking at my stacks of records, shelves of CDs and very full iPod Classic menu it is clear that there is a pretty large influence of rap and hip hop on music in general. (FWIW the music you will find in my home ranges from medieval hymns to electronica. Largest genres represented are 18th century classical music, opera, punk rock, rap, folk and country). Edited March 13, 2012 by kijipt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think it's entirely plausible that all things being equal, it's easier for an adopted child to be with a family that looks like them and comes from the same background as their birth parents. Should they decide to explore that heritage at some point in their lives, their adoptive parents will be able to provide positive examples, etc. I think the problem comes in because all things are not equal, and especially among children who are removed from their families due to neglect, some groups are over-represented in surrendered children and/or under-represented in families that want to adopt. I personally know of an adoption that was disrupted because the child is Native and the parents who want to adopt are not Native. Since the child has been in this placement since birth (he's going on five), and since there is a shortage of foster parents/foster-to-adopt parents in general and of Native foster parents in particular, the entire situation is a bit absurd. I think that this is the kind of thing that makes people question the whole business -- a kid left in foster care because the Ideal doesn't exist, even if the Good Enough does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) . Edited September 11, 2014 by Evanthe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was thinking about this last night. We probably know 10-15 multi-racial families. Multi-racial families are growing in numbers - especially in our 20s to 30s age group. I also want to add...what older minority adults have gone through is another issue. I'm not clear on what your advice to Cottonmama is. Are you saying because that you know 10-15 multi-racial families, she shouldn't educate herself about the issue via the suggested reading and asking questions? Are you also saying that my husband, who is in his late 40s, erased all ethnic tensions because he married white a decade ago? And also, due to our age range, the experience I shared here doesn't count? Because of my age? Despite it happening in the last decade? This post seems like you are whitewashing and agewashing the issue at the same time, and I'm not sure that's your intent. (BTW, I don't care if that's exactly what you are saying, and I would obviously disagree, but that's OK. I'm not going to get all heated up about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was thinking about this last night. We probably know 10-15 multi-racial families. Multi-racial families are growing in numbers - especially in our 20s to 30s age group. I was not speaking to the number of multi-racial families extant. I was speaking to the idea that race is apparently never mentioned, noticed, or discussed in your family. I think that is rare in multi-racial families, particularly adoptive ones. I also want to add...what older minority adults have gone through is another issue. It may be another issue, but it is certainly related. Racism is alive and well in the US, and in some places the experience of a young person of color will not differ much from what "older minority adults" went through. Every child experiences adoption differently, and every child has his own identity issues to work through. For some kids, this may not be a big deal. For others, it will be. To say that race is not an issue, or shouldn't be an issue, or won't be an issue because of a plethora of multi-racial families, ignores the fact that these kids will have their own thoughts, feelings, and experiences surrounding adoption. I used to think that "color blindness" and "we are all the same" and "race doesn't matter" were the way to go and the best way to be. My feeling now is that those attitudes are naive. My dd17, who is black and goes to a majority-black school, confronts racial issues and attitudes every day, as I detailed in previous posts. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was thinking about this last night. We probably know 10-15 multi-racial families. Multi-racial families are growing in numbers - especially in our 20s to 30s age group. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have a hard time seeing pregnancy as something one "picks up." It seems to me a combination of teen sexuality + lack of birth control. One has a choice in both aspects of that equation. Culture and ethnicity are not mainly about skin color. Most African Americans are not all the same shade. Most Latinos/Latinas/Hispanics are not the same shade. etc One can also have a culture when they are NOT even around many/any others from their culture, e.g. Asian brides who moved to the US post WWII. I also don't think it's food or language, necessarily. I think culture is about what is important to you and through what lens(es) you see things. Things like gangs come from a variety of factors, including a sense of what it means to be a man. :iagree: I was going to say that I saw a lot of teen pregnancy in small-town, midwest, white America. That does not make it a cultural thing anywhere. And correct, not all "white" people have the same cultural background, nor all Latinos, nor all Asians, etc. My SIL got upset when others in the family acted as those Japanese or Chinese were the same thing as Filipino. My mother's culture and my father's culture are very different, though they both qualify as "white" (with some NA on my father's side). That beats the brunt of the argument of adopting based on race/skin colour...because one's skin colour does not determine ethnicity or culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKidAcademy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If birth culture is such a big deal, why allow overseas adoptions? That is really taking a child from their culture, whether they look like the adopting family or not. My best friend, who is Caucasian, adopted a African-american baby. It was open adoption and the birth parents chose my friend's family for their baby to grow up in. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. The little girl is growing up in a very loving family. Isn't that truly what matters? The Hague convention or treaty or whatever it's called, set forth by the UN, wants to discontinue international adoptions. Their premise is that it is better for children to languish in orphanages within their country of origin than to flourish in families of different cultures and/or ethnicities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What I was trying to do was give another viewpoint on a thread that is full of some serious stereotyping and disturbing racial remarks - and I'm trying to keep it pretty sterile so I don't offend anyone. As someone in a multi-racial family, I find some of the comments and stereotypes in this thread extremely offensive. Also, I'm sorry if I offended you. No apology necessary. :) Maybe in your attempts to keep things sterile, some of your point is sailing straight over my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The Hague convention or treaty or whatever it's called, set forth by the UN, wants to discontinue international adoptions. Their premise is that it is better for children to languish in orphanages within their country of origin than to flourish in families of different cultures and/or ethnicities. It is by no means that simple. There are good reasons to be concerned about the practice of international adoption - it can very easily become systematically exploitative and cement institutional systems that don't address the underlying problems for the children involved. Just like a lot of other things where a lot of money can change hands, something which is done with a lot of good will can become a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 For folks who think that my generation (and before) are stuck in the past and that our world is post-racial: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/sport/ncaa-racism/index.html We're too old to be playing in the college band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/sport/ncaa-racism/index.html Disgusting. People who think racism is no longer a problem are living with their eyes wide shut. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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