Is Saxon math the best choice for best possible scores in Standarized Tests?

[luciana11tx]

There are 7 possible Math curricula written on my notes for 3rd grade (MUS, MM, Singapore, RS, CLE, TT & Beast Academy) with pros/cons and I was thinking about adding Saxon Math to whatever I decide to choose. Just so my son can do well in the Texas TAKS Test next year.

 

(This is just one of the million questions I have, hope people don't get tired of me posting threads every other day) :D

 

1st year Home schooling.

[SkateLeft]

The best curriculum is the one that works best for you and your child.

 

It sounds trite, but pretty much all of the curricula that you've mentioned claim to work well in standardized testing (with the exception of Beast Academy, which is totally brand spanking new.) There is no "best for standardized testing" curriculum. That's why public schools don't all use the same curriculum.

 

All we can really provide here is anecdotal evidence. :) I'd suggest looking up the test standards for the grade level of your child, then check out the scope and sequence of each of those curricula to see which one best fits. Oh, and while Right Start and MUS are great programs, they follow a non-standard sequence in lower elementary, so if you're worried about testing the same year you start using their programs, then they might not be a good fit.

[Crimson Wife]

FWIW, Asian countries score the highest on international math comparisons. That was the reason why my DH originally wanted me to use Singapore.

[mandymom]

If you are homeschooling in Texas (unless you are using an online charter, but then you wouldn't be searching for curriculum), your children will not be required to take the TAKS test. Also, this was the last year of the TAKS test. Next year, the state standardize test will be the STAAR test. From what I understand, it will be completely different from TAKS. But, your son won't be required to take the STAAR either. There is no mandated standardized testing of any kind for homeschooled children in Texas.

Edited March 11, 2012 by mandymom

[Ellie]

There is no "best." :)

[purduemeche]

One other way to think about this...take the standardized tests every other year starting in 3rd grade. This way, you can identify gaps (from any curriculum) and then you will be well-prepared come SAT/ACT time.

 

All of these curriculums will work fine to prepare your children. The key is to find the one that fits their learning style (note: key benefit of homeschooling versus corporate schooling! :))

[creekmom]

I think Saxon did an excellent "job" preparing my kids for standardized tests. My daughter took the Stanford 10 in 3rd grade and scored in the 94th percentile and my son in 5th grade scored in the 97th percentile. You can't go wrong with constant review (unless it starts to drive them crazy!) My kids love learning a little something new and then spending the rest of the math lesson cementing what they've already learned. It doesn't work for every kid, but it has worked for my kids. I do skip the K level and start them in Saxon 1 in kindergarten.

[ktgrok]

I don't know that it matters. My son just got his ITBS scores and got a perfect score on the problem solving section of the math. We use Math Mammoth. He did not do as well on the computation section but he ran out of time, and has a processing speed disorder.

[Pen]

There are 7 possible Math curricula written on my notes for 3rd grade (MUS, MM, Singapore, RS, CLE, TT & Beast Academy) with pros/cons and I was thinking about adding Saxon Math to whatever I decide to choose. Just so my son can do well in the Texas TAKS Test next year.

 

(This is just one of the million questions I have, hope people don't get tired of me posting threads every other day) :D

 

1st year Home schooling.

 

 

It looks like you have several choices for math, all of which are excellent and children using them can all get excellent test scores. I suggest you not judge by test scores expectations and instead pick what will be a good fit for both your child(ren) (but not all need do the same program) and you for the long haul. A homeschooling friend swears by Saxon and it is good for that person's dd. It was not a good fit for mine. MUS is a good fit for mine. I don't know if it would be a good fit for the other child, since like us, once a good fit is found, they stick with that. Had we started from the very beginning with hs, I might have used something different, but we too came in past the start. Of significance perhaps would be to say that the reason Saxon fits the friend's child well is that that child is very verbal (not kinesthetic) and handles a spiral approach seemingly well--it did not work well for my son who needs a very different look & layout to his math pages, including fewer words and word based explanation, tends to be kinesthetic, and does better with a mastery approach, and does better where it is clear what can be skipped past if understood, and what needs more time spent on it if not.

[regentrude]

Saxon is a solid program that gets the job done. For a child who needs incremental instruction with a tight spiral, constant review and lots of drill, this is suitable program.

For a child who needs a mastery approach and prefers to stay with one topic until that is thoroughly covered, Saxon is not a good fit and will cause frustration (ask me how I know).

 

There is no "one-size-fits-all-best-for-everybody"-curriculum.

[EKS]

FWIW, I would think it would be very difficult to "add" Saxon math. What makes Saxon a strong program is that it has students do a ton of problems every single day. So I would either go with Saxon as a primary program or use something else.

 

That said, I do know that some people have been able to combine Saxon with other programs. There is no way I could have done it with either of my kids though, and both of them are extremely strong math students (99th percentile on standardized tests).

[BethG]

In my research, Saxon Math was the only one of the elementary curriculum with proven effective/positive results on testing. (I'll try to find the link on that --- where studies confirm it). People try to say the same for about Singapore in the Asian cultures....but, the U.S. studies/results don't confirm that. The Asian work ethic would make them outshine American cultures in most subjects, so I don't know if its necessarily b/c of Singapore's math program or because of this culture's drive to succeed in ALL/ANY area of study.

 

Students learn best with repetition spaced over time --- that's Saxon in a nutshell.

 

Here's one link

http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/Topic.aspx?sid=9

Edited March 11, 2012 by BethG

[In2why]

FWIW, I would think it would be very difficult to "add" Saxon math. What makes Saxon a strong program is that it has students do a ton of problems every single day. So I would either go with Saxon as a primary program or use something else.

 

That said, I do know that some people have been able to combine Saxon with other programs. There is no way I could have done it with either of my kids though, and both of them are extremely strong math students (99th percentile on standardized tests).

 

 

Math is my Achilles heel and we have bought almost every single math program mentioned by the OP. In 3 years. :D The program that works "best", even when it comes to testing, is the one that your family can get done, and in a way that your child can learn.

That is different for every family and every child. All of them will result in great test scores, it isn't the program that makes the difference.

[freesia]

Math is my Achilles heel and we have bought almost every single math program mentioned by the OP. In 3 years. :D The program that works "best", even when it comes to testing, is the one that your family can get done, and in a way that your child can learn.

That is different for every family and every child. All of them will result in great test scores, it isn't the program that makes the difference.

:iagree: We've gotten 99% math scores from Horizon's. When I taught most of the kids got 90th % results from Scott Foresman Exploring Mathematics.

 

ETA: I think you can find old TAKS online. You could see what they test and whether those subjects are covered by the curriculum you want to use.

[daybreaking]

People try to say the same for about Singapore in the Asian cultures....but, the U.S. studies/results don't confirm that. The Asian work ethic would make them outshine American cultures in most subjects, so I don't know if its necessarily b/c of Singapore's math program or because of this culture's drive to succeed in ALL/ANY area of study.

 

 

I've always wondered about this. Do you have any links to the U.S. studies/results from using Singapore, which you mentioned? I'd be very interested in reading them.

[....]

Definitely pick a math program that suits your student's learning personality. Saxon is great, but I don't use it, because none of my kids would be ok with it. Each one of my kids uses a different math program. One uses Math Mammoth, one uses MEP and living math books and the other uses Singapore and Miquon.

 

As far as hitting ps standards, if you go onto the Math Mammoth website, she talks about that. Math Mammoth is supposed to cover ps math standards (and from the 4 semesters we've used it, it seems to cover those very well :D).

 

I've also seen the fliers for CLE Math and the standardized test scores are pretty high for that program, too.

 

And Horizons.

 

If you want to hear more about our math woes :tongue_smilie:, my son has used...drumroll...singapore, math mammoth, horizons, MEP and CLE math. All of those programs are incredible, but he cried during every one. They moved too quickly or had too many problems or introduced abstract thinking WAY before he was able to think that way. Although he was using these great programs, he was treading water and had no idea what he was doing. I ended up *completely* stopping math for almost a year. We read living math books from the library and took a break...and a few weeks ago, he asked to go back to MEP. Amazingly :001_rolleyes:, he actually understands what he's doing now.

 

Good luck with your search!

[Haiku]

We used Right Start, and when I tested my dd for the first time in 3rd grade, she got a perfect math score for concepts and missed only one for computation.

 

The same curriculum gave my son an overall math score in the 70s.

 

There is no one best curriculum, but I will say that I don't think you can "add" Saxon to something else. Saxon can take well over an hour a day. Unless you want your third grader spending upwards of 2 hours a day on math curricula (which imo would be fatiguing), you'll just have to trust whatever curriculum you go with.

 

Tara

[boscopup]

Pick a math program that works for your child. If it works, the standardized test scores will fall out of that. Don't fall into the trap that the public schools have done... teaching to the test. Especially in a state where you're not even required to test! ;) Frankly, I want my son to have a better math education than what the standardized test requires. If I provide him with a good education without teaching to the test, he'll do well on the test anyway. If I only teach to the test, he'll have a lot of holes in his education, but have good test scores.

 

My son used Saxon at a private school (K and 1). He was bored, as the lower levels are really quite slow and very incremental. Drove him nuts. He was ready to move on (he's gifted in math). But I also talked to a high school student at that school who has been using Saxon there for all of his schooling years - he's a senior in high school this year. He does well on standardized tests, but he admits that he really doesn't know the "why" behind math. He just knows how to plug in the formulas. He lamented that he wished he knew more about why the math worked. I found that very interesting.

 

I don't think Saxon is all bad. My oldest has rock solid place value knowledge, and I think that's likely because of their morning meeting in K (I'm using a similar technique with my middle son, and he has gone from not understanding place value at all and not being able to count past about 13 last October to fully understanding tens and ones and even hundreds that we haven't gotten to yet, and yesterday he counted to 200 in the van on the way home from church... figuring out how by following the place value pattern :tongue_smilie:... we're actually still in the upper 20s or maybe lower 30s on our 100 chart :D).

 

Could my oldest score well on a standardized test if he'd stuck with Saxon? Probably. Will he score well on a standardized test after using Math Mammoth and Singapore? I'm positive that he will. He knows the math. He understands the "why" of the math AND knows the standard algorithms and how to apply them.

 

Most math programs cover what you would need for a standardized test. MUS and RS have a different scope and sequence, so they might be a bit iffy for testing purposes (at the end of elementary math, they're all at the same place, but from year to year, the difference could theoretically cause slightly lower scores, but even then, I doubt it'd be much). Singapore Standards Edition meets or exceeds California state standards, so I imagine a kid using that should be fine on standardized testing. I have no doubt that MM, CLE, and others would produce good results also, if those programs fit the child using them.

[In the Rain]

If you are homeschooling in Texas (unless you are using an online charter, but then you wouldn't be searching for curriculum), your children will not be required to take the TAKS test. Also, this was the last year of the TAKS test. Next year, the state standardize test will be the STAAR test. From what I understand, it will be completely different from TAKS. But, your son won't be required to take the STAAR either. There is no mandated standardized testing of any kind for homeschooled children in Texas.

 

:iagree: This is pretty much what I was going to say. :001_smile: A friend of mine, who teaches ps here, said that teachers are really scrambling to cover everything that could possibly be on the test. I guess they haven't seen it yet. They are giving out tons of worksheets to review everything they've learned in math, and anything new that could possibly be on the test. :001_huh: His 9 yo dd is up until after 9 every night, struggling to finish homework. :confused: Poor thing.

 

My dd took a standardized test halfway through Singapore 3A. The result said she was at a late fourth grade level! Math is hard for her, so I was shocked.

[Mommy22alyns]

Like others have said, it's about what fits your child best. Rebecca is using CLE and it is absolutely the best choice for us. I used to have huge math battles with her and I've just resigned myself to her being weaker in math than LA. I'm going to be giving her the CAT test in a couple of months, so I bought a test prep book and gave her the sample tests in LA and math.

 

She missed ONE problem in math. :001_huh: She did fairly well in LA, but I was stunned that she did so well in math!

[simka2]

If you are homeschooling in Texas (unless you are using an online charter, but then you wouldn't be searching for curriculum), your children will not be required to take the TAKS test. Also, this was the last year of the TAKS test. Next year, the state standardize test will be the STAAR test. From what I understand, it will be completely different from TAKS. But, your son won't be required to take the STAAR either. There is no mandated standardized testing of any kind for homeschooled children in Texas.

Also, just an FYI the STAAR test is heavy on the word problems. So, if you ever want him to take it you are going to want to focus on mutli-step word word problems.

[Leav97]

Most math programs cover what you would need for a standardized test. MUS and RS have a different scope and sequence, so they might be a bit iffy for testing purposes (at the end of elementary math, they're all at the same place, but from year to year, the difference could theoretically cause slightly lower scores, but even then, I doubt it'd be much). Singapore Standards Edition meets or exceeds California state standards, so I imagine a kid using that should be fine on standardized testing. I have no doubt that MM, CLE, and others would produce good results also, if those programs fit the child using them.

 

:iagree:

[In the Rain]

Also, just an FYI the STAAR test is heavy on the word problems. So, if you ever want him to take it you are going to want to focus on mutli-step word word problems.

 

That is good to know. Have you seen the test?

[cfn10]

Only wanted to add that programs need to fit child and teacher-parent, at least for me.

 

(All good advice as usual from WTM :001_smile:).

[luciana11tx]

Thanks everyone. Right now I'm thinking about Singapore, TT and LoF now... but wanting to do some research on CLE.

[Hunter]

My first year homeschooling, I pulled my 10 year old out of school right before Christmas. He had just been tested and was functioning at the 50% level, which is average and to be expected. 8 months later he got the highest test scores in our entire town. I know this because he was the only child in the town to qualify for the John Hopkins Talent Search, and had to go to another town to take the SATs.

 

We used Saxon that year. It is not as simple as Saxon being the key, though. It isn't as simple as studying the topics on the test, which we didn't. He used an Algebra 1 textbook instead of a 5th grade math textbook. We didn't even have curriculum for most subjects.

 

I've learned that the highest test scores came on years when we were using the least curriculum and studying none of the expected topics. Years that I coughed up the money and shoved our noses to the grindstones, were the years their scores would drop.

 

Use materials that you are comfortable teaching from. Make skills lessons short and frequent. Don't wear yourself out using textbooks for content subjects like science, social studies and literature. Teach the CHILD, not teach to the tests.

[TracyR]

If your looking for a curriculum that prepares kids for standardized testing, CLE and Saxon would be of choice. Of course like everyone says here, there is no such thing as 'the best' what works for your child is the best. But if your wanting to incorporate a curriculum that would prepare them for standardized tests those would be it. They both have proven track records that have most children testing at least one grade level above.