Tranquility7 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm just starting out in Latin and am making up a bunch of flashcards. I want to include the verb principle parts on the cards, but my book (GSWL) doesn't include them, so I'm looking online, and in LFC (which I have, but am not yet using with DS). My question is, I find two different endings (-us and -um) for the fourth principle part on many verbs. Which is correct? What is the difference between them, and why do I find it one way sometimes and the other way other times? For example: do, dare, dedi, datus VS do, dare, dedi, datum ambulo, ambulare, ambulavi, ambulatus VS ambulo, ambulare, ambulavi, ambulatum Also, is there a good online Latin dictionary? (I've been trying to use http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/ but that is the one that gives the -us endings above, which is different than LFC.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 bump... anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't know, because I'm not very far into this Latin journey myself. I wanted to add, don't hesitate to use that Ask the Magister button on CAP's website. We did through the course of LFC A when my kids vehemently disagreed on a particular declension, and I didn't know the answer. They got an email back from Chris Perrin himself. (They were so excited the email was printed and put in our Latin memory binder.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm just starting out in Latin and am making up a bunch of flashcards. I want to include the verb principle parts on the cards, but my book (GSWL) doesn't include them, so I'm looking online, and in LFC (which I have, but am not yet using with DS). The fourth principle part is a bit of a mess. There is some disagreement between different texts as to what form to use for it. Some texts use the m-supine, which is the one ending in "m". (Don't worry if you don't know what a supine is, it is probably the least use verb form in Latin). Others texts use the perfect passive participle, which, as an 1/2nd declension adjective can end in a/us/um. Note the -um ending of the participle looks a lot like a supine. Some texts which use participles for the 4th PP use the -us ending for transitive verbs and -um for intransitive verbs. Other texts just stick with one ending. A handful of intransitive verbs have no passive forms. (What is the passive form of be?) For those verbs, usually the future active form is listed, or sometimes those verbs are listed with no 4th PP at all. Aren't you glad you asked? Also, is there a good online Latin dictionary? (I've been trying to use http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/ but that is the one that gives the -us endings above, which is different than LFC.) The best online Latin dictionary is at the Perseus project at Tufts university. It is a little tricky to learn how to use, but one you learn how, it is a magnificent resource: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=&la=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't know, because I'm not very far into this Latin journey myself. I wanted to add, don't hesitate to use that Ask the Magister button on CAP's website. We did through the course of LFC A when my kids vehemently disagreed on a particular declension, and I didn't know the answer. They got an email back from Chris Perrin himself. (They were so excited the email was printed and put in our Latin memory binder.) Thanks so much for this info, I will keep that in mind! It is good to have an expert on hand :D The fourth principle part is a bit of a mess. There is some disagreement between different texts as to what form to use for it. Some texts use the m-supine, which is the one ending in "m". (Don't worry if you don't know what a supine is, it is probably the least use verb form in Latin). Others texts use the perfect passive participle, which, as an 1/2nd declension adjective can end in a/us/um. Note the -um ending of the participle looks a lot like a supine. Some texts which use participles for the 4th PP use the -us ending for transitive verbs and -um for intransitive verbs. Other texts just stick with one ending. A handful of intransitive verbs have no passive forms. (What is the passive form of be?) For those verbs, usually the future active form is listed, or sometimes those verbs are listed with no 4th PP at all. Aren't you glad you asked? Kinda! LOL That answer is both extremely helpful and extremely intimdating! But that is ok. Basically I think what you are saying is that there is disagreement. I guess for now I will just stick with what LfC seems to do (-um). Hopefully we won't ever have to relearn it the other way. The best online Latin dictionary is at the Perseus project at Tufts university. It is a little tricky to learn how to use, but one you learn how, it is a magnificent resource: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=&la=en Thanks! I will look into that and see if I can figure it out. I need all the help I can get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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