Notgrass and high school credits

[dancer67]

We are starting 8th grade and I am already planning out my high school curriculum. This coming year we are using Notgrass America the Beautiful.

For 9th, 10th and 11th we will continue with Notgrass World and American HIstory. Notgrass website stated you can give 1 credit for History, Literature, and Bible.

 

(1 credit for World History for 9th, and 1 Credit for American Literature for 10th)

 

11th grade is 1/2 yr Government and 1/2 year Civics. So that would be 1 credit total.

 

Is it necessary to continue to do literature and analysis for 11 and 12th grade, and if so what do you recommend? Or what did you use?

 

We would do a full year of writing still right through high school, plus vocabulary. I would still like to continue with literature though.

 

What says you?

 

ETA: I am a little confused about assigning credits for English. Do I just list English 9 with one credit, or do I list it as English composition-1 credit;American Literature-1 credit(equalling 2 credits???).

Edited March 10, 2012 by dancer67

[Jenny in Florida]

Is it necessary to continue to do literature and analysis for 11 and 12th grade, and if so what do you recommend? Or what did you use?

 

We would do a full year of writing still right through high school, plus vocabulary. I would still like to continue with literature though.

 

What says you?

 

ETA: I am a little confused about assigning credits for English. Do I just list English 9 with one credit, or do I list it as English composition-1 credit;American Literature-1 credit(equalling 2 credits???).

 

I can't help at all with the Notgrass-specific issues, because I've never used those curricula.

 

I do think most colleges require four full years of English, which usually includes literature, for admission. And in Florida, four years are required for high school graduation. My experience and research suggest that, if anything, literature becomes even more of a focus of upper-level English classes than in the first couple of years.

 

Public schools roll composition, grammar, vocabulary and literature study into a single English credit. And that's how we do it, too. I know some folks disagree, but my sense of it is that a college seeing a transcript that had two credits for what would normally be one might think a student was trying to "pad" things a bit.

 

Edit: Ooops, I forgot to address your question about recommendations for curricula. Honestly, this is another area in which I'm not going to be helpful, because we pretty much always do our own thing when it comes to literature. I assign books. My student reads. We discuss. The student writes. We discuss and edit the writing. The student revises. We start the next book.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Jenny in Florida

[Lori D.]

Is it necessary to continue to do literature and analysis for 11 and 12th grade, and if so what do you recommend? Or what did you use? We would do a full year of writing still right through high school, plus vocabulary. I would still like to continue with literature though... I am a little confused about assigning credits for English. Do I just list English 9 with one credit, or do I list it as English composition-1 credit;American Literature-1 credit(equalling 2 credits???).

 

 

Just about all high school graduation requirements and college admission requirements expect 4 credits of English from the high school graduate. Typically, a high school English credit is comprised of:

- 1/2 Writing (composition)

- 1/2 Literature

 

Grammar instruction may also be part of the English credit, especially in the 9th/10th grade years, if the student is still lacking in that area; generally Grammar combines with the Writing in high school (proper use of language, sentence structure, proofing/editing for grammar mechanics and word usage, etc.). Vocabulary may also be considered as part of the English credit. Plan on an average of 90 minutes per day, 5 days a week for an English credit, as Writing and the reading (Literature) are more time-intensive activities.

 

And in answer to your question, yes, families who will be doing a full credit's worth of Writing (rough average = 150 hours = 1 credit), often also do a 0.5 credit of Literature. It is highly advisable to do Literature throughout the high school years as, along with History, that gives a student the best "springboard" into the required college-level Humanities and Writing courses, and also provides a student with more background to draw on for specific examples for the ACT/SAT timed essays -- not to mention that so much of our culture alludes to Classic Literature every day, that the more of it you are familiar with, the more you will understand the culture. ;)

 

 

As for what to use for the English credit or Literature portion of the English credit, there are many options. You may "DIY", using WTM and WEM as a guide, or make a list from the various "must reads for the college bound student" (here is one). Or, go with a packaged Literature program, such as Lightning Literature (0.5 credit courses), Excellence in Literature (1 credit), SMARR (conventional or chronological) (1 credit), Bob Jones University Press Literature (1 credit), Glencoe (1 credit), K-12, etc., or specific literature guides to individual works, such as Progeny Press, Penguin Group, Glencoe Literature Library, Garlic Press Publishers Discovering Literature series, Sparknotes, etc.

 

 

VERY generally, high school students tend to have a Literature progression something like this:

 

9th = Intro to Lit

10th = survey of Lit with some specific emphasis (i.e., short stories; OR, focus on a specific author's work [i.e., Christian authors, CS Lewis, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy, etc.]; OR, focus on a specific genre [such as fantasy, sci-fi, gothic, etc.])

11th = American Lit

12th = British Lit

 

OR

 

9th = Intro to Lit

10th = American Lit

11th = British Lit

12th = World Lit

 

Those who are following a more strict classical education model will tie the Literature to the History, and their Literature progression looks like this:

 

9th = Ancient World Classics

10th = Medieval World Classics (option: some homeschoolers choose to focus on early British and European lit this year)

11th = Renaissance to Enlightenment World Classics (option: some homeschoolers choose to focus on American Lit and later British Lit this year)

12th = Modern (20th Century) World Classics (option: some homeschoolers chose works throughout time periods that match up with the Government credit that is often taken in 12th grade -- i.e., Plato's Republic, etc.)

 

 

Finally, in answer to your questions about using Notgrass and awarding credits... This is just my opinion, BUT... We used Notgrass Exploring America, and I truly do not think I would call the "English" portion of it an English OR a Literature credit. I would call it a supplemental reading list of works written in the time or about the time, with a few comprehension questions and writing assignment suggestions.

 

For me, a true Literature program:

1. uses Classic Literature (JMO, but a number of works in either Notgrass history are either historical fiction or non-fiction support of the History)

2. goes in-depth in teaching and discussing literary analysis, themes, characterization, symbolism, etc. (Notgrass only offers comprehension questions)

3. teaches and guides the student in writing a literary analysis (there is no writing instruction in Notgrass)

4. covers a variety of types of works -- novels, short stories, poetry, plays essays, biographies, etc.. -- AND a variety of genres -- realistic, fantasy, adventure, humorous, gothic, etc. (Notgrass is limited in its variety)

 

 

My suggestion: It sounds like you will have 1 credit of Writing from other resources. I would suggest that before you start any books from the Notgrass "English" list, you FIRST do the 0.5 credit Literature program "Windows to the World", which is an excellent, clear, specific guide to beginning literary analysis and how to write a literary analysis essay. THEN, to make the Notgrass a worthy 0.5 credit of Literature, select 5 of the Classic Literature works from Notgrass (Julius Caesar; Pilgrim's Progress; A Tale of Two Cities; Pride and Prejudice; Animal Farm), get a good literature guide to go with each to guide you in true literary analysis and discussion.

 

Works such as Mere Christianity; The Imitation of Christ; Here I Stand; Eric Liddell: Pure Gold; The Hiding Place; and The Abolition of Man more rightfully belong under the Bible credit, while The Cat of Bubastes would be a light historical ficition supplement to the History.

 

For the Notgrass Exploring America, I would suggest using these works (again, each with an individual Lit. guide) for a 0.5 credit of Literature: The Scarlet Letter; Uncle Tom's Cabin; Humorous Stories and Sketches (and actually, I'd substitute Adventures of Tom Sawyer or Adventures of Huckleberry Finn); To Kill a Mockingbird; and The Giver. Then use these works as non-fiction supplement to the History portion of Notgrass: Narrative of the Life of David Crockett; Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass; Co. Aytch; Up From Slavery. And enjoy these works as light works to supplement the History: Little Women; Mama's Bank Account; Christy. And In His Steps would fit in as a possible Bible credit book.

 

 

I know this is coming off sounding really harsh, and I don't mean it to at all. Just so you know, we used and really enjoyed Notgrass for the History -- BUT that is Notgrass' strong suit. I just don't think he quite understands what all really needs to go into a program to justifiable call it an English credit. Again -- all my opinion, and your mileage may vary! :) Whatever you decide, wishing you the BEST of luck in your high school planning and high school adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Lori D.

[dancer67]

Thank you for the great replies.

 

If I list on the high school transcript just "English 9" 1 credit. How are the colleges going to know that she has done a full years worth of lit?

 

For example. Right now I know for sure we will be doing Essentials in Writing, Easy Grammar for grades 9 and 10, and Vocab. from classical roots.

 

I really want an in depth study of literature and analysis. Can you award a full credit in "English Composition" or "English Grammar and Composition", and ALSO award a full credit for a Literature program? Or does that sound like to much?

 

My older son used BJU, so it was easy. 1/2 credit for grammar and comp. and 1/2 credit for Literature.

 

If I use Notgrass, can I use the progeny press guides to award a full credit, or only a 1/2 credit in literature?

 

She is going to do a full year of writing. ALOT of it. So I know I will be awarding a full years credit for English Composition.

 

I guess I am just confused as how to write it all out on a transcript.

 

Like I said, when I homeschooled my son for high school, it was easy because he wanted to do all BJU DVD's and his transcipt was easy to figure out.

 

I have a headache on how to write out the English on the transcript. Sorry if you explained this and maybe I am not getting it. :confused:

[dancer67]

You can do it either way. When I was in public high school, I received a semester of literature and a semester of composition, each worth 1/2 credit. They were listed seperately on the transcript. However, I know here in our current school district, it's all wrapped up in "English" course, one full credit. Colleges know when they see "English 9" and such that it means the student had both literature and composition. So it's really a case of "to-MAY-toe" versus "to-MAH-toe".

 

If you feel that your child is doing more than a half credit of each in a school year, then list them out seperately and assign a full credit to each. It's your call.

 

 

Okay, this makes it easier. Thank you so very much!

[Brindee]

From what I understand: Grammar + Literature + Vocabulary + Writing = English. When colleges look at the transcript, they expect that each year those elements are included. The way they're accomplished varies greatly, but those are the components for "English". If you add another whole credit for Literature, then it MAY (for some) look more suspicious to some colleges ........ like "mommy grades."

 

It's tough to know how to give credit sometimes, but to look credible, I think we need to resist the urge to put down too much, when it's really included in the catch name of "English" or "music" or whatever it is. I struggled with this too and ended up not giving credit for every single thing my kids have done. I am just happy they are going deeper and wider and learning well! THAT will give them the edge in college! :)

 

I know you're looking to understand, which just made me think of it, so I mentioned it, just in case.....

Edited March 12, 2012 by Brindee