Wheres Toto Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I've been spending a lot of time at bowling talking to the mom of a gifted 9 year old that is just like my son. I posted a couple weeks ago about thinking my son may be gifted with overexcitabilities or adhd or ?? So, this week one of her friends was there who is a child psychologist. Her son is also gifted but is 2e with an Asperger's diagnosis as well. This kid and my son definitely did NOT get along. Everything my son did this kid found annoying. But that was handled as it happened and wasn't really an issue. As we were talking, I had mentioned looking up different testing at a local college and thinking about doing it at some point. The child psych mom asked me why I wanted to test. I said so that we would know what he really needs and how to work with him better. For example - if he does have ADHD we may try diet and other changes and if truly necessary, medications. If he is gifted, I may offer him more challenges or enroll him in classes or activities geared toward that (the friend 9 year old does a bunch of classes where they are very good with the kids who are on the jump around like crazy side). Anyway, she suggested making some changes to see how they work even without testing. She even suggested a trial of ADHD medications to see if they help. I'm not against medications if they are needed (dh is a pharmaceutical chemist) but I'm not really comfortable giving my son medications he might not need and I don't think giving adhd medications and seeing a change is necessarily "proof" of adhd, kwim? Even the most "mild" of them have side effects. I said I wasn't comfortable with unnecessary medications but I had a hard time explaining why I thought it was important to understand his needs in order to do what was best for him. She had put her son in a non-academic preschool to make sure he wouldn't be too advanced in kindergarten. She homeschools now but her son goes to a part time private school and does mostly tutoring type things. So she didn't feel it was necessary to "challenge" my son and felt that kids who needed more would find it for themselves. But, he's 6 1/2. He can complain that he's bored but unless I give him unlimited access to the internet, I don't see how he's going to just find his own challenges. Any thoughts on this? I do try to meet my son where he's at, I just feel that knowing what his issues and strengths are might make it easier to see he gets what he needs. I'm not planning to push him but I don't want to hold him back either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirstenH Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 She does things her way. You should do things your way. Don't give her suggestions a second thought if they don't feel right to you. You're two different people with two different kids and two different approaches to life. Next time she offers you advice that squicks you out, tell her to pass the bean dip. ETA: I think testing is worthwhile, for the record. Medication without diagnosis ... not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Blessings Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes, why would you give a child medications without a reason? I would much rather know to the best of my ability what is going on and then make decisions regarding medications and/or therapy. Stick with your instincts . . . you are the mom of that child and you are the one ultimately responsible for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Um, yes, you don't have to run your parenting decisions by her. I think trying ADHD meds with no medical basis is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCB Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just wondering - what were her reasons for not testing? or rather for thinking you shouldn't get him tested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maus Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Anyway, she suggested making some changes to see how they work even without testing. She even suggested a trial of ADHD medications to see if they help. I'm not against medications if they are needed (dh is a pharmaceutical chemist) but I'm not really comfortable giving my son medications he might not need and I don't think giving adhd medications and seeing a change is necessarily "proof" of adhd, kwim? Even the most "mild" of them have side effects.That's so strange, because ADHD meds will "work" even if you don't have ADHD. Ritalin and Adderall are among the most abused drugs on college campuses, because they DO improve concentration, even in non-ADHD individuals, so students will take them before an all-night cram session. What would it prove if your son's concentration improved because he took them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think I would stick to talking about the weather the next time I saw this mom. I do have one question that lingers in my mind after going through an "All Kinds of Minds" conference... Is your child a good sleeper? Sometimes poor sleep patterns can cause qualities that look like ADHD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) That's so strange, because ADHD meds will "work" even if you don't have ADHD. Ritalin and Adderall are among the most abused drugs on college campuses, because they DO improve concentration, even in non-ADHD individuals, so students will take them before an all-night cram session. What would it prove if your son's concentration improved because he took them? Exactly--in Dr. Paul Beljan's words in a youtube lecture I watched--why do you think there are so many Starbucks! FTR--meds have been very helpful to me personally (diagnosed as an adult with ADHD inattentive, probably exacerbated by bad habits due to poorish academic fit). I am currently trying to tease out ADHD from Down syndrome in my son--while I am not opposed to meds, I also don't believe in medicating just for the heck of it to see if it works. It has been EXTREMELY helpful to me to have my dd11's WISC results--it certainly gives me the confidence to ask for subject acceleration in English that I would not have had before, and the assurance that she really really needs it. It was also useful in pinpointing some potential relative weaknesses that we can now help ameliorate. I think it is worth every penny and we will be testing dd4 with the WISC when she is old enough. We aren't currently homeschooling--but if we were, it would be just as useful and neccessary. edited to add: she is darn right that some kids will find ways to challenge themselves if their intellectual needs are not met, and in some very inappropriate and unhealthy ways sometimes! Edited March 9, 2012 by deacongirl more to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 oh, and I don't know if you have read the Dual Diagnosis/misdiagnosis of the gifted book--but very worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just wondering - what were her reasons for not testing? or rather for thinking you shouldn't get him tested? She didn't really say but I gather from the way she deliberately held her son back in preschool that she doesn't support acceleration. I guess she looks at it as - if you are not going to accelerate, what difference does it make to test? The whole conversation really took me by surprise since most people I know WANT to help their kids realize their potential, whatever that may be. I think I would stick to talking about the weather the next time I saw this mom. I do have one question that lingers in my mind after going through an "All Kinds of Minds" conference... Is your child a good sleeper? Sometimes poor sleep patterns can cause qualities that look like ADHD. Yeah, weather seems like a good idea. I'm hoping to be a little better prepared if this comes up again. I posted to make sure I wasn't crazy and to help me work out my thoughts. My son has been a piss-poor sleeper since he was a baby. He's better now but not much, sleeps maybe 6 to 7 hours a night. That definitely is something to consider. It has been EXTREMELY helpful to me to have my dd11's WISC results--it certainly gives me the confidence to ask for subject acceleration in English that I would not have had before, and the assurance that she really really needs it. It was also useful in pinpointing some potential relative weaknesses that we can now help ameliorate. I think it is worth every penny and we will be testing dd4 with the WISC when she is old enough. We aren't currently homeschooling--but if we were, it would be just as useful and necessary. edited to add: she is darn right that some kids will find ways to challenge themselves if their intellectual needs are not met, and in some very inappropriate and unhealthy ways sometimes! Thank you! This is exactly what I mean. I think it's much better to KNOW what he really needs, even though I am completely responsible for his school needs. It can help me to make sure I'm giving him what he needs. Even just determining that he was visual spatial improved our schooling by a great deal. And yeah, I can see all kinds of unhealthy ways he could try to find challenges, especially since he loves the computer so much. oh, and I don't know if you have read the Dual Diagnosis/misdiagnosis of the gifted book--but very worth checking out. I have it on hold at the library. Evidently it's a popular book. Thank you everyone for your thoughts. This is helping me work out what I really feel is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hopefully this might offer some encouragement: Harnessing a Racehorse. Regarding sleep, I remember at the All Kinds of Mind training that Dr. Levine said he always suggested the parents try Benadryl, before any ADHD medicine, just in case sleep was the main problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracyomalley Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 many gifted kids don't need much sleep, but also don't act tired or distracted after 6-7 hours....DD only started sleeping 8 hours a night when she got to 16 hours of gym and 2 hours of ballet a week....however, ds #1 needs tons of sleep and is unable to function if tired...you'll know the difference. Oh, and just for the record, I did a non-academic preschool with my kids for social and artistic reasons, while at home my dd was finished with an entire kinder program in 3 months at age 4....but her LEARNING that year was at preschool (art, baking, nature study, etc...), so don't assume a "broader not faster" approach means not challenging the gifted kid....I don't know if this is relavent in your aquaintance's case, but thought it would be good food for thought... It does make sense to try many of the non-medication approaches to "ADHD" at home with ANY highly distractible kid (many gifted kids fall into this category without any true pathology). Medication is a whole different thing....as one poster mentionned, it will make most people concentrate better..with side effects...and a response to meds is NOT diagnostic of a problem....there are kids who cannot succeed socially or academically without help...I don't mean As or 2 years ahead in reading succeed, I mean make a friend, not run in the street and get hit by a car, write your name type of succeed...doesn't sound like you're in that boat! Structure, exercise, mixing seat work with other things, expectations of diligence, good nutrition, good sleep hygiene, all this stuff helps ADHD and other kids... Erin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Exercise doesn't make a difference unless he spends literally an entire day outside swimming in a pool or lake with no break. Nothing short of that has him sleeping any better. It actually appears that he doesn't need much sleep. We've been talking to his pediatrician about his sleeping since he was a baby. Even as an infant, he never slept more than 8 or 9 hours in an entire 24 hour day. The ped said he was growing well, was not cranky or tired acting, was alert so he evidently was just a kid that did not need that much sleep. She mentioned doing the non-academic preschool deliberately so he would not learn any new academically and therefore, wouldn't be too far ahead when he started kindergarten. So, it didn't seem to be an enrichment thing just somewhere to put him while she worked. The confusing thing with my son and the ADHD possibility is that he does fine when we do school at home. He sits and works for an hour, hour and a half without a problem. He can also play the computer for hours without a problem (if allowed which we don't do often). He's mostly wild/crazy/running around when we are around other kids, in situations where it's very noisy and chaotic, or when he's bored. My older brother had adhd and autism and I see some of those traits in my son but certainly not all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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