What ds learned at Boy Scouts this week...s*xually graphic content

[Pretty in Pink]

Ugh. This happened Tuesday night and I'm still fuming about it. I haven't done anything about it yet because I am trying to gain my composure, but everytime I think about this I just get so **** angry I could spit nails.

 

Dh took ds to scouts on Tuesday night. When they got home ds took me aside to tell me that something "really awful" had happened at scouts. I eventually coaxed out of him what the awful thing was: one of the boys was spouting off and swearing, calling another boy a f*ggot (not unusual, unfortunately) and then he made a joke about...uh...double p*netration.....:blink::blink::blink:

 

My ds was very upset about what he had heard. I mean, wow. I am dumbfounded. They are 13 years old.

 

I generally consider myself fairly open-minded and think that I have realistic expectations about typical adolescent behavior. I don't even know why I'm posting this here. I just need a sounding board, I suppose. My dh won't even discuss the issue with me, and in fact was aggravated that ds had even told me about it, so I'm not sure how he wants to proceed. I want to pull ds from this troop.

 

Thanks for reading/letting me vent.

 

ETA: I talked to dh and apologized for being a turd. While I am still upset that my 13yo is now aware of that particular physical act, I am grateful that he was confident enought to bring it to the attention of Scout Master and comfortable enough to share the details with us. Dh said that he is planning to discuss this at next week's meeting and suggest that the boys, as a group, be reminded of what is and is not acceptable. Dh made a good point: we are moving in a few months and will be getting a new troop at that time. Ds has a few friends in this troop and enjoys that aspect very much.

 

Thanks for the input here, ladies. It is so helpful to hear different perspectives.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Pretty in Pink

[FlyingMOm]

I would have a coronary. :cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:

 

I am pretty sure that we've decided to pull our 7yo ds out of cubscouts. He'll finish out these last two months but then that is it.

[Chris in VA]

Yuck.

 

I guess your choice now is how to respond, since you can't undo what happened or prevent it from happening again. I hate being so out of control, but it's reality. You can put them in situations where it is less likely to happen, but you can't totally prevent it unless you lock them in a closet.

 

Maybe saying something like, "Wow, ds, I can see this made you so upset. It's just ugly, isn't it? How do you want to handle it?" See if he wants to quit, or talk to the kid and express his distaste, or avoid the kid, or say something next time, or what--sometimes a 13yo can come up with some pretty good solutions.

 

I'd be pretty happy if my 13yo was upset by this--if it didn't meet his standards, y'know? You must be raising him well, and he must be "getting" it. :001_smile:

[Haiku]

I would definitely inform the scoutmaster that this talk was occurring. I am sure that's not how he wants the boys to behave, and it might give him an opportunity to discuss appropriate male behavior with the boys.

 

My kids play on a hockey team that is mostly 9 and 10 year old boys. My dd is sometimes upset by the things some of the boys say. If our coach knows that inappropriate talk/behavior is occurring, he addresses it. He always says something along the lines of, "I'm not singling anyone out here, but you all need to remember that we are a hockey family and we need to behave in respectful and polite ways. We owe it to our teammates, our opponents, our parents, and OURSELVES."

 

We puffy-heart-love Coach.

 

Why is your husband opposed to talking about this?

 

Tara

Edited March 8, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator

[NotAVampireLvr]

I would definitely inform the scoutmaster that this talk was occurring. I am sure that's not how he wants the boys to behave, and it might give him an opportunity to discuss appropriate male behavior with the boys.

 

Why is your husband opposed to talking about this?

 

Tara

 

:iagree: This is something that can be managed without singling anyone out IMO. Unfortunately a good life-lesson opportunity for the troop.

 

 

I can't say whether or not I would pull him from the troop at the age he's at now (if he was younger, absolutely I would pull him out). Really it depends on your child. Some kids are way more impressionable then others.

[itsheresomewhere]

While I do not agree with what happened at boy scouts, most 13ish boys know what that is. I am very proud of your son discussing what happened with you. It shows that he sees that he can have a open conversation with you. You must be so proud of him to see and understand that and of yourself. I am assuming you have had numerous talks about the birds and bees with him. Take this time to ask if you need to review anything.

[lauracolumbus]

Well, I think it's fabulous that your son was a) uncomfortable w/this talk, and b) told you about it. I would definitely speak with him about how he wants to proceed. But, I'd also speak with the leader.

 

Laura

[mom31257]

From all I know of most kids today, I'm not surprised since they are 13. When our kids are put into situations with kids from all walks of life, this stuff is going to happen. I'm so sorry it did, and I would inform the leaders that it was going on.

 

You know, we recently had a scout day at our church. I was very surprised when the group came up. The only older boys who are in Boy Scouts and either working on Eagle Scout or have attained it are some of the teen boys in the church that I have not seen show good behavior or much respect. It really made me question having ds stay in the program. You've just raised another red flag for me!

[jennsmile]

I agree with talking to the scoutmaster. I know this talk has no place in scouts, thanks to youth protection training. It does need to be dealt with by the scout leaders IMO.

 

I am so glad my guys are younger still not looking forward the growing up that will go on in the next few years. I am glad your son was upset and could talk to you about it. I hope my guys are the same way. It doesn't make it easier though. :grouphug:

[Mommyfaithe]

:glare:

I would be upset! ( that is my mild way of saying I would be pissed as a hornet.

 

My dd walked in on 2 girls making out...or worse at Girl Scout camp. Needless to say, we do not do girl scouts or sleep away camp any longer. She was 11.....and does not seem scarred for life......and she is now 26, but I would not take a chance with my kids again.

[Lolly]

While I do not agree with what happened at boy scouts, most 13ish boys know what that is. I am very proud of your son discussing what happened with you. It shows that he sees that he can have a open conversation with you. You must be so proud of him to see and understand that and of yourself. I am assuming you have had numerous talks about the birds and bees with him. Take this time to ask if you need to review anything.

 

:iagree:

[Pretty in Pink]

Why is your husband opposed to talking about this? Tara

 

Well.

 

We've had a lot of problems with this troop. Things like:

 

boys not supervised by any adults during meetings (hence the type of stuff that happened Tuesday)

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

boys not supervised while chopping wood at camp (they got in trouble for swinging the axes around in a dangerous manner)

boys wearing inappropriate shirts to meetings (a girl with bare bOOks, swear words)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

 

I think dh doesn't want to talk about it because he was at the meeting and didn't do anything (which was not his fault, he didn't exactly what had been said, and he thought Scout Master took care of the problem). Dh was sitting inside with the other dads while the boys played outside. Ds went inside and told Scout Master that so and so was telling "dirty jokes" (he didn't tell him specifically what was said). Scout Master walked outside with ds (so dh assumed he would get onto the boy). Scout Master just stood there for a minute and walked back inside. This is how it usually goes: ds or one other boy tell Scout Master that there is a problem and Scout Master says that he'll take care of it but does nothing.

 

Dh did talk to a few of the other dads about the bad language a few months ago at a community BBQ. He said their attitude was that boys will be boys and that he was overreacting.

 

I nagged dh for over a year to get him involved with ds and scouting. He's only been a leader for a few weeks. Perhaps he feels put on the spot?

 

I think he felt like ds went over his head, so to speak, by telling him the specifics in the car on the way home and then telling me, privately, about the issue when he got home. Dh thinks it's "weird" that ds confides in me. He thinks I should sort of butt-out because I'm a girl. He doesn't want me raising momma's boys that run to me for every little thing, which I'm not. My dh can be overly sensitive to this issue because he was not raised by his mother and has no real reference for how a mother and son interact.

[katilac]

I think that pulling him from the troop is a definite over-reaction. Ask dh if he will talk to the other troop leader or remind the boys of Scout behavior himself. You need to stay out of it at this point, imo, not b/c you're mom, but b/c your dh is the one with this gig. Look at it from his POV: you want to pull your ds, who is also HIS ds, from an activity that he helps run? That's kind of insulting.

 

It's good that your son wouldn't say such things, and doesn't want to hear them. However, *speaking gently*, I think he is perhaps overly upset at overhearing a raunchy sex comment. If he brings it up again, I would ask him if there was more to the incident (a comment aimed at him, perhaps). If not, I would talk briefly about walking away when he hears something like this again, and then I would tell him it's over and done, let's move on.

 

I do wonder why you and he are both so much more upset about this than about "faggot" being tossed around as an insult on a routine basis. If I were going to address an issue, it would be that.

Edited March 8, 2012 by katilac
added stuff

[DawnM]

This is why we are in a homeschool only pack/troop. I can't say enough good things about it. We aren't perfect, but there is rarely course talk and if there is, it is dealt with. There is very little swearing and if it is heard, it is dealt with. There was one instance of bullying and he was kicked out.

 

You don't have to be Christian to join our unit, but you must be a Christian to be a leader.

 

I would be LIVID if this happened!!!!!!!! And if the troop master gave me a chuckle and "boys will be boys" speech, I would be sending out an email to ALL in the troop explaining why we will not be returning. I don't mess around with stuff like this.

 

Dawn

[Pretty in Pink]

While I do not agree with what happened at boy scouts, most 13ish boys know what that is. I am very proud of your son discussing what happened with you. It shows that he sees that he can have a open conversation with you. You must be so proud of him to see and understand that and of yourself. I am assuming you have had numerous talks about the birds and bees with him. Take this time to ask if you need to review anything.

 

Thank you for this. This feels like a good perspective. I might write it down and re-read it several times throughout the week to keep myself in a good place about the while thing. I am proud of him.

 

Yes, to the bolded part. Gosh, I hope he doesn't need any clarification about the particular act in question. I might need a drink after that conversation!

 

So, perhaps let ds decide how to proceed. Hmmm. I hadn't even considered that.

[Pretty in Pink]

I do wonder why you and he are both so much more upset about this than about "faggot" being tossed around as an insult on a routine basis. If I were going to address an issue, it would be that.

 

I see why it is coming across that way. It's not that either of us is more upset about the raunchy joke. The other things have been going on for so long (f*ggot and, less frequently, n*gger) that I guess we are used to it. That is awful. I know. The dirty joke was just the most recent thing that happened. I was equally upset when ds told me about those two words being used, and suggested to dh at that time that we find another troop.

 

I guess I see why dh would be aggravated with me. I nagged him for a year about doing this and as soon as he dips his toes in the pond I am at his back threatening to insinuate myself if he doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

Ds was upset Tuesday night. He wasn't crying or anything crazy, he was just really uncomfortable talking about what he had heard. I imagine the semantics of the physical act being discussed completely weirded him out! He's not still walking around thinking or talking about it though.

[NotAVampireLvr]

Well.

 

We've had a lot of problems with this troop. Things like:

 

boys not supervised by any adults during meetings (hence the type of stuff that happened Tuesday)

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

boys not supervised while chopping wood at camp (they got in trouble for swinging the axes around in a dangerous manner)

boys wearing inappropriate shirts to meetings (a girl with bare bOOks, swear words)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

 

I think dh doesn't want to talk about it because he was at the meeting and didn't do anything (which was not his fault, he didn't exactly what had been said, and he thought Scout Master took care of the problem). Dh was sitting inside with the other dads while the boys played outside. Ds went inside and told Scout Master that so and so was telling "dirty jokes" (he didn't tell him specifically what was said). Scout Master walked outside with ds (so dh assumed he would get onto the boy). Scout Master just stood there for a minute and walked back inside. This is how it usually goes: ds or one other boy tell Scout Master that there is a problem and Scout Master says that he'll take care of it but does nothing.

 

Dh did talk to a few of the other dads about the bad language a few months ago at a community BBQ. He said their attitude was that boys will be boys and that he was overreacting.

 

I nagged dh for over a year to get him involved with ds and scouting. He's only been a leader for a few weeks. Perhaps he feels put on the spot?

 

I think he felt like ds went over his head, so to speak, by telling him the specifics in the car on the way home and then telling me, privately, about the issue when he got home. Dh thinks it's "weird" that ds confides in me. He thinks I should sort of butt-out because I'm a girl. He doesn't want me raising momma's boys that run to me for every little thing, which I'm not. My dh can be overly sensitive to this issue because he was not raised by his mother and has no real reference for how a mother and son interact.

 

In this situation my son would be ripped from the troop in a heartbeat. The hate talk is completely unacceptable.

[swellmomma]

Yuck.

 

I guess your choice now is how to respond, since you can't undo what happened or prevent it from happening again. I hate being so out of control, but it's reality. You can put them in situations where it is less likely to happen, but you can't totally prevent it unless you lock them in a closet.

 

Maybe saying something like, "Wow, ds, I can see this made you so upset. It's just ugly, isn't it? How do you want to handle it?" See if he wants to quit, or talk to the kid and express his distaste, or avoid the kid, or say something next time, or what--sometimes a 13yo can come up with some pretty good solutions.

 

I'd be pretty happy if my 13yo was upset by this--if it didn't meet his standards, y'know? You must be raising him well, and he must be "getting" it. :001_smile:

 

I would definitely inform the scoutmaster that this talk was occurring. I am sure that's not how he wants the boys to behave, and it might give him an opportunity to discuss appropriate male behavior with the boys.

 

My kids play on a hockey team that is mostly 9 and 10 year old boys. My dd is sometimes upset by the things some of the boys say. If our coach knows that inappropriate talk/behavior is occurring, he addresses it. He always says something along the lines of, "I'm not singling anyone out here, but you all need to remember that we are a hockey family and we need to behave in respectful and polite ways. We owe it to our teammates, our opponents, our parents, and OURSELVES."

 

We puffy-heart-love Coach.

 

Why is your husband opposed to talking about this?

 

Tara

 

I agree with talking to the scoutmaster. I know this talk has no place in scouts, thanks to youth protection training. It does need to be dealt with by the scout leaders IMO.

 

I am so glad my guys are younger still not looking forward the growing up that will go on in the next few years. I am glad your son was upset and could talk to you about it. I hope my guys are the same way. It doesn't make it easier though. :grouphug:

 

I agree with all 3 of the above. It does need to be brought to the scoutmasters attention, as well because your ds is 13 I would include him in what he wants to do about it as well of course to acknowledge that it was inappropriate for that talk AND to praise him for coming to you even if his dad wanted to keep it under wraps.

 

I could not imagine that kind of talk being appropriate in any scout pack. Heck this Tuesday ds8 got a time out and a warning that he could miss this weekends camp because he spoke disrespectfully. They were playing a tag game and in the heat of the game he yelled "Die, die, die" as he chased the other boys while "it". Nothing at all like what your son heard, and that was enough to risk him attending camp this weekend. There is zero tolerance for disrespectful talk of any kind. Sexual talk like your son heard would result in a boy being immediately suspended from a meeting, and if it continued to happen expulsion from the troop.

[3peasinWa]

In this situation my son would be ripped from the troop in a heartbeat. The hate talk is completely unacceptable.

 

I agree. There is more wrong with this troup then just the OP. If I didn't take him out, I'd make sure I was around the kids the whole night, even when they go outside. They need more supervision. And the axe thing is really bothering me. My dh was in scouts for many years as a kid. He almost died on a scout trip due to the negligence of the leaders. He absolutely refuses to let ds have anything to do with scouts.

Not saying that is the only option, but your dh needs to directly supervise at all times (unfortunately).

[swellmomma]

Well.

 

We've had a lot of problems with this troop. Things like:

 

boys not supervised by any adults during meetings (hence the type of stuff that happened Tuesday)

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

boys not supervised while chopping wood at camp (they got in trouble for swinging the axes around in a dangerous manner)

boys wearing inappropriate shirts to meetings (a girl with bare bOOks, swear words)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

 

I think dh doesn't want to talk about it because he was at the meeting and didn't do anything (which was not his fault, he didn't exactly what had been said, and he thought Scout Master took care of the problem). Dh was sitting inside with the other dads while the boys played outside. Ds went inside and told Scout Master that so and so was telling "dirty jokes" (he didn't tell him specifically what was said). Scout Master walked outside with ds (so dh assumed he would get onto the boy). Scout Master just stood there for a minute and walked back inside. This is how it usually goes: ds or one other boy tell Scout Master that there is a problem and Scout Master says that he'll take care of it but does nothing.

 

Dh did talk to a few of the other dads about the bad language a few months ago at a community BBQ. He said their attitude was that boys will be boys and that he was overreacting.

 

I nagged dh for over a year to get him involved with ds and scouting. He's only been a leader for a few weeks. Perhaps he feels put on the spot?

 

I think he felt like ds went over his head, so to speak, by telling him the specifics in the car on the way home and then telling me, privately, about the issue when he got home. Dh thinks it's "weird" that ds confides in me. He thinks I should sort of butt-out because I'm a girl. He doesn't want me raising momma's boys that run to me for every little thing, which I'm not. My dh can be overly sensitive to this issue because he was not raised by his mother and has no real reference for how a mother and son interact.

 

I should have read both pages before replying. A troop like this I would not only pull my boys from but also report to the council. They are giving scouting a bad name. A troop is only as good as its leaders and these ones do not appear up to the job (as you dh is new as a leader I am not speaking about him obviously but of the other ineffective leaders). The axes business would have had me flipping out as it is. My uncle nearly cut his foot off being an idiot with an axe when I was a kid, it was horrific. Such a dangerous idiotic thing to do. Our boys have to get their "license" before they are allowed to use knives, axes, matches etc. Each thing has it's own license with it's own testing. They are always supervised and if seen using the items inappropriately (or if the scoutmaster hears that outside of scouts they used those things inappropriately they lose their license and are no longer trusted or allowed to use those things at camp etc). SO many safety concerns here as well as inappropriate behaviours, it is no longer enough to deal with it in the troop or to just pull ds, the troop needs to be reported.

 

As for your dh and his thoughts about it being weird that your ds confides in you I think I would have looked at him like he had 3 heads. I would just tell him that as long as ds needs you to confide in you will never butt out, but that it will be up to ds to determine when that is and for what topics.

[In the Rain]

Ugh! I'm sorry. I don't have teens or boys, so I guess I just have a :grouphug:

[Haiku]

boys not supervised by any adults during meetings (hence the type of stuff that happened Tuesday)

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

boys not supervised while chopping wood at camp (they got in trouble for swinging the axes around in a dangerous manner)

boys wearing inappropriate shirts to meetings (a girl with bare bOOks, swear words)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

 

Sounds to me like this troop is not a good fit. Maybe you could try to find another troop that has better-behaved kids?

 

Tara

[Danestress]

S@x is good. It is what we are (partly) made for. This kid told your son about something that can be really good. In the right context, with the right person.

 

What is NOT good is that someone else's kid is being called names. And that parent may have no idea this is going on. Perhaps that son doesn't tell his mom. I personally feel like the kid who is doing this DOES need to be singled out (privately but in the presence of both parents) and warned that his bullying days are officially over, that the warning is being documented, and that any further bullying will result in being expelled from the troop. I can't believe that isn't already being scheduled. Same with the racist stuff.

 

I Also think tht leadership need to let ALL the parents know what is going on. These parents should have the right to decide if they are comfortable with a troop that has permitted this kind of behavior to continue unchecked. You really have no idea how psychologically vulnerable the target of this is. How would it feel if he killed himself and the parents had no idea what was going on, and the leadership that did know had taken a "ok boys, let's all be nice" approach?

Edited March 8, 2012 by Danestress

[lorrainejmc]

So, I have read the whole thread, discussed content with dh and gone back to re-read the OP before we both figured out exactly what the act in question is.:blink:

[LarrySanger]

Perhaps you could use a male perspective, eh?

 

There is this sort of talk among unsupervised 13-year-olds, and probably has been from time immemorial. Not all 13-year-old boys curse behind their mothers' backs, but a lot of them do who would never let their mother catch them it using such language. Also, the fact that a 13-year-old boy uses "faggot" does not mean he's going to grow up to be an intolerant jerk. It's not nice and should be strongly discouraged, but it sort of goes with the territory. And then there are always some kids who love the shock value of sex jokes...this does not harm 13-year-old boys. Ever heard of locker room humor? Ma'am, if you're married to a Marine, he knows.

 

Still, that particular "joke," however, sounds pretty extreme for 13 years old. But of course times have changed...not in all ways for the better...since I was 13...

 

Anyway, all that being said, a good Scout troop has lots of supervision and the sorts of behavior you describe was definitely not standard behavior when I was growing up. There are lots of troops out there, unless you live in a rural area. It's not a bad idea to look into moving to another troop--maybe just try one out to see if its a better fit. You might have to drive him (I was able to walk to my troop meetings), or drive a little farther, but it could be better.

Edited March 8, 2012 by LarrySanger

[MegP]

So, I have read the whole thread, discussed content with dh and gone back to re-read the OP before we both figured out exactly what the act in question is.:blink:

 

I thought I knew but now your post is making me question that! I thought it had to do with homose*xuality and double pen.....Not even sure what that is, eek !

[LarrySanger]

S@x is good. It is what we are (partly) made for. This kid told your son about something that can be really good. In the right context, with the right person.

 

If you're referring to the "joke" mentioned in the OP, I think you mean "people." Whether that "can be really good" is, let's just say, a matter of debate (speculation, really, for me and probably everyone here).

[Birdwinglips]

We tried scouts this year for my DS 10. He doesn't like it. Our troop basically meets 2x a month at the leader's house. The boys (all 4th grade) are obnoxious, yell/talk over the leader (he is a pretty meek guy) and I don't know if my son has got anything from the meetings.

 

He says he wants to quit, but I told him he needs to finish out the year. Sadly, since my son has a disability, the fun stuff like camping is not possible. :-( But to be honest, I'd hate to see this group out in 'the wild'. lol

 

So we will finish out the year and then hang up his uniform. $130 down the drain. At least we tried. He has made NO friends because they meet so few and far between and they are just so rowdy there is no 'talking' going on.

[Danestress]

What the act is, lol. And I would prefer not to dwell on it! But the core of my post is that I am not nearly as bothered by my child knowing about s@x acts as I am the bullying. To me, this is the core problem, and one the adult men need to carefully consider for the well being of the kids and for the troop. I would imagine they have already violated boy scout rules on bullying.

[swellmomma]

I thought I knew but now your post is making me question that! I thought it had to do with homose*xuality and double pen.....Not even sure what that is, eek !

 

think female, 2 phallic objects, 2 entrances at the same time. Not something that any 13 year old should know about imo.

 

To the male persepective: Yeah sexual jokes or locker room banter is one thing, but this was not a hormonal "peverted" teen comment about girls with big bOOks, this sounds to be a bit more graphic than that and just down right peverted. WHile neither is acceptable, I would be more willing to blow off a comment about bOOks kwim Yes sex is good, but that does not mean comments about it are acceptable or should be allowed at scout meetings regardless of whether the jokes have been said for ages

[EmilyK]

Well.

 

We've had a lot of problems with this troop. Things like:

 

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

.

 

 

I guess I wanted to emphasize these in particular though the whole list would have me taking drastic measures. Safety is a big deal in scouts too. But this hate talk is completely unacceptable. I can't believe anyone thinks it is OK, and I wouldn't want my kid supervised by adults who think it is OK (or not supervised, as it sounds here).

[delaney]

That is not typical of a scout troop and I suggest you move on to a new one. It sounds like there is no supervision which is a recipe for disaster. You have that sort of thing happen when you put a bunch of young boys together. Kids bring with them all sorts of garbage and you are bound to have to deal with some of it. It is unavoidable for the most part I'm afraid. You seem to have done a great job raising your DS since he was confident enough to bring it to light!:001_smile: Great job mom!

:grouphug:

[LarrySanger]

I guess I wanted to emphasize these in particular though the whole list would have me taking drastic measures. Safety is a big deal in scouts too. But this hate talk is completely unacceptable. I can't believe anyone thinks it is OK, and I wouldn't want my kid supervised by adults who think it is OK (or not supervised, as it sounds here).

 

So, you think it can be prevented, and that it can be prevented by always supervising teenagers. Good luck with that.

 

I'm pretty sure nobody said that hate talk is acceptable. That's a different issue. Of course it's not acceptable. The way the term is usually used, "hate talk" is unacceptable by definition.

[MegP]

My friend's DH is a scout leader, and my friend says that this kind if thing is totally not allowed in their troop. If a child was talking about double pen. , he would be EXPELLED from the troop. Because they have strict rules in their troop, they have VERY little problems with discipline and inappropriate language/bullying/unkind words.

[LarrySanger]

My friend's DH is a scout leader, and my friend says that this kind if thing is totally not allowed in their troop. If a child was talking about double pen. , he would be EXPELLED from the troop. Because they have strict rules in their troop, they have VERY little problems with discipline and inappropriate language/bullying/unkind words.

 

And that is how to handle it--set rules, punish violators. Not constant, smothering supervision. Some cursing and off-color jokes will still occur, but not as much, because the kids will know the rule is hanging over their head, and they'll fear being overheard or being tattled on.

[MegP]

You couldn't supervise every second anyway, especially when they are on campouts.

[scrappyhappymama]

There are BIG differences in scout troops. We are only in Cub Scouts so far and it took us three tries to find the excellent group we are with now.

 

I think the Cubmaster's behavior in this case is abominable. To teach the scouts that they should be "morally straight" or "reverent" and then wink at this kind of talk sends a double message and the boys know it.

 

There are plenty of opportunities for young boys to talk about such things, but it's not what scouts is supposed to be about. (Would it be "OK" for these discussions to be happening in a youth Bible Study, for example, when the parents expect their kids are being taught and supervised, not left to their own devises?) If I am taking the time out of our family life to send my son to scouts, I want to know it is a productive and encouraging time. There's nothing wrong with the OP's son that he feels uncomfortable with this kind of talk, and the leader's should be doing everything they can to help these young men to learn that part of being a man is not saying every fool thought that pops into your head and being disrespectful to others.

 

I would be switching troops, not because of what your son heard, but how the adults in charge refused to handle it.

[EmilyK]

So, you think it can be prevented, and that it can be prevented by always supervising teenagers. Good luck with that.

 

I'm pretty sure nobody said that hate talk is acceptable. That's a different issue. Of course it's not acceptable. The way the term is usually used, "hate talk" is unacceptable by definition.

 

 

Yeah, where I live (admittedly, Portlandia) that kind of talk is really unacceptable. My kids attended a very diverse school with parents of varying races and sexual orientation. There was tons of time spent at school talking about how to treat people. Bullying was just not permitted -- the teachers dealt with it really swiftly and well. My 13 year old son now is in a private school that would absolutely deal with either 1) bullying or 2) calling someone a nigger or a faggot, or using those words to describe people.

 

I can't believe in 2012 there's even a discussion point about whether scout or school leadership should deal with that kind of language. Here kids are so sensitized I think they'd crack down on each other about it.

 

I'm not uptight about the sex talk (within reason). I get what's going on at that age. But that kind of hate talk or bullying ends up with serious harm.

 

ETA: maybe your point was about the supervision? Well, I guess a couple of thoughts -- safety is really important, and a good scout troop should emphasize it. The troop my son was in had a death on a trip. And I saw in both cub and boy scouts a lot of free-for-all bad behavior when lead by weak leaders. I'm not saying hovering -- my kids walk around our urban neighborhood without me, my older son takes the city bus by myself -- but when they're at an activity, I do judge whether it is well-run. And this one isn't.

Edited March 8, 2012 by EmilyK

[Stayseeliz]

We quit scouts after two years. I was working so hard on undoing all the stuff that was "done" during scouts that I realized it wasn't worth my time!

Edited March 8, 2012 by Stayseeliz

[treestarfae]

Well some of the teens could already be having tea. Teen boys can be getting a hold of their Dad's material hanging around their house. The troop leader sounds like a weenie though and shop around for your next troop. Ask Boy Scout office at the next location who the best leaders are. Sorry you're getting shocked and it's totally sad how some kids are raised. My kids hear some stupid stuff hanging around with marine base kids so it happens everywhere. My kids know to ignore it. I think homeschooling gives my kids a sense of distance from kids that don't get much attention and parental supervision. These type of gypsy kids with behavioral issues are so sad.

[FriedClams]

I am a scout leader (cubs - but know TONS of boy scout leaders through my training and volunteering) and I would encourage you to go to the Scoutmaster. He needs to know. If you son won't go to him and tell him (which he should - its a leadership opportunity for him to protect other scouts and take responsibility for having heard the comments) then you can do it in a non-reactive mom way. I would say having your son take ownership is best - but either way the SM needs to be able to address it. It's inappropriate and it's not OK - either for your son or others. As was pounded into my head in the military - silence implies consent. Now is the time to speak up. If it's not handled- call and sit down with your Council Executive.

[LarrySanger]

Yeah, where I live (admittedly, Portlandia) that kind of talk is really unacceptable. My kids attended a very diverse school with parents of varying races and sexual orientation. There was tons of time spent at school talking about how to treat people. Bullying was just not permitted -- the teachers dealt with it really swiftly and well. My 13 year old son now is in a private school that would absolutely deal with either 1) bullying or 2) calling someone a nigger or a faggot, or using those words to describe people.

 

Oh, Portland. Lovely city. I went to Reed.

[DawnM]

There are other troops. I would be OUT NOW!

 

I would do careful homework for a better troop. This is a HUGE reason my kids do NOT go to public school.

 

I handle bigotry even less than swearing. I would be all over that one. NOONE should be demoralized like that for their race or sexual orientation (and it doesn't matter what my views are on homosexuality, I will not tolerate meanness.)

 

Dawn

 

Well.

 

We've had a lot of problems with this troop. Things like:

 

boys not supervised by any adults during meetings (hence the type of stuff that happened Tuesday)

boys using bad language (f*ggot, n*gger, nasty jokes, f*ck, etc.)

boys not supervised while chopping wood at camp (they got in trouble for swinging the axes around in a dangerous manner)

boys wearing inappropriate shirts to meetings (a girl with bare bOOks, swear words)

a lot of hateful talk amongst the boys about gay people and, sometimes, about blacks

 

I think dh doesn't want to talk about it because he was at the meeting and didn't do anything (which was not his fault, he didn't exactly what had been said, and he thought Scout Master took care of the problem). Dh was sitting inside with the other dads while the boys played outside. Ds went inside and told Scout Master that so and so was telling "dirty jokes" (he didn't tell him specifically what was said). Scout Master walked outside with ds (so dh assumed he would get onto the boy). Scout Master just stood there for a minute and walked back inside. This is how it usually goes: ds or one other boy tell Scout Master that there is a problem and Scout Master says that he'll take care of it but does nothing.

 

Dh did talk to a few of the other dads about the bad language a few months ago at a community BBQ. He said their attitude was that boys will be boys and that he was overreacting.

 

I nagged dh for over a year to get him involved with ds and scouting. He's only been a leader for a few weeks. Perhaps he feels put on the spot?

 

I think he felt like ds went over his head, so to speak, by telling him the specifics in the car on the way home and then telling me, privately, about the issue when he got home. Dh thinks it's "weird" that ds confides in me. He thinks I should sort of butt-out because I'm a girl. He doesn't want me raising momma's boys that run to me for every little thing, which I'm not. My dh can be overly sensitive to this issue because he was not raised by his mother and has no real reference for how a mother and son interact.

[Joanne]

What *I* read in the OP and subsequent post was what happens to normal, average kids who are under-supervised.

 

IMO, it does not mean the children have been abused, exposed to something widely inappropriate, or that the whole group is rude. It's likely to be one or two edgy kids, and the rest just being passively around it.

 

Now, my family left cub scouts due to under-supervision and under-discipline. I am not, in any way, saying "boys will be boys". I am talking about physics as applied to young teen boys - they will continue in the same momentum ulness acted on by an outside force.

 

The children who are disrespectful with their words need to be given strict, specific rules and a chance to do better.

 

As far as the specifics, I'm not upset about a 13 year old knowing of that sex act (and it may/may not refer to more than one sexual partner being present). I also wouldn't assume the child who used the phrase actually knows what it is. I would talk directly, and clearly to my child about the phrase and affirm that the phrase was inappropriate.

[justasque]

silence implies consent. Now is the time to speak up.

 

As mom of an Eagle Scout, I think that what you are describing is unscout-like behavior compounded by ineffective and irresponsible leadership. It is not typical of scout troops, in my experience. I would 1) ask around and find another troop, ASAP. This group is too toxic to continue with. 2) Report, report, report, up the line. They can't fix it if they don't know about it. Scouting can be a great experience, but only if it's done right. Good troops are out there, and, in my experience, worth the extra drive if need be.

[Mom-ninja.]

Based on what you've said about the troop, my ds would already have been pulled out.

[SailorMom]

Can't stay to read the whole thread, but I can pipe in here on policy...

 

As troop committee chair, I'm also in charge of disciplinary actions. The scoutmaster and I get together, make up a game plan, and then have a meeting with the scout and their parent(s).

In this case, I do think this should happen. He gets warned at that meeting in front of his parents, and if inappropriate behavior happens again - they have to immediately pick that kid up from wherever the troop is (even at midnight 200 miles away).

After that - he gets suspended from troop functions for whatever period of time is deemed appropriate, then allowed back to meetings only until he shows that he has changed his behavior. At that point he can start going on outings again....

[LarrySanger]

I am not, in any way, saying "boys will be boys".

 

Why not? They will. They won't be girls and you shouldn't make them be like girls. By no means am I defending the bad behavior of those misbehaving scouts, who I would insist be punished. But this is a good time to remind folks that boys have particular requirements and have to be understood on their own terms. See this book if you have a boy--great book. Also this.

[Joanne]

Why not? They will. They won't be girls and you shouldn't make them be like girls. By no means am I defending the bad behavior of those misbehaving scouts, who I would insist be punished. But this is a good time to remind folks that boys have particular requirements and have to be understood on their own terms. See this book if you have a boy--great book. Also this.

 

Dude, did you READ the rest of my post? I have 2 boys and teach about 30 or so of the same age.

 

I also know a bit, professionally, about development.

 

Coming back to add that the "boys will be boys" excuse has been used to excuse/forgive many forms of aggression, sexual assaults, bullying, and verbal taunting.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Joanne

[treestarfae]

Dude, did you READ the rest of my post? I have 2 boys and teach about 30 or so of the same age.

 

I also know a bit, professionally, about development.

 

Coming back to add that the "boys will be boys" excuse has been used to excuse/forgive many forms of aggression, sexual assaults, bullying, and verbal taunting.

Lol Joanne. Men will be men.