Jump to content

Menu

Jacobs Algebra is not going well... (x-post)


Recommended Posts

This is ds1's third stab at algebra (he's 14). Last year, he started with Teaching Textbooks Algebra. He was doing fine until about halfway through the course. Then he hit a wall. Even with the lectures, he just didn't understand; and I was no help at all.

 

So I decided to have him work through the Key To Algebra series. He went through the first couple of books (there are 9 total) and did well, but I was frustrated about not being able to help him and decided that we needed to go back to a full algebra program. So after much research and prayer, I bit the bullet and bought Jacobs Algebra with the Ask Dr. Callahan DVDs. One of the reasons I was positive about this program was the online support.

 

He has good days with it, and he has bad days with it. Today was a really, really bad day. He's reading the lessons, and watching the DVDs, but there are times when he is just lost. And I read through the questions and I can't understand what they're looking for.

 

We've made use of the online support -- you're supposed to be able to e-mail the publisher with specific questions, and we've done that a few times. But one of the last times we did so, the person who responded suggested that we look at the answer key and work backward to try to figure out how they arrived at the answer. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took that to mean, "You're asking too many questions; try to figure it out for yourself before you contact us." For the record, we weren't e-mailing every day, and we weren't stuck on dozens of questions. I try to help ds, and sometimes I amaze myself by actually understanding the lesson -- but today was not one of those days. And honestly, I spent the money on this program so that I wouldn't have to do that.

 

It's been a long, long time since I did algebra, but ... I just don't remember it being this hard. I remember doing pretty basic equations; ds is doing a ton of functions and lots of graphing. Jacobs certainly seems more difficult than TT or Key To Algebra. Is it considered a more difficult program? Are the difficulties that ds is having just a reflection of the complexity (or the unusual approach) of Jacobs? Or have we just not found the right fit? I really don't want to switch again. I'm honestly considering looking for a tutor to help him get through Jacobs, but I'm frustrated because I thought that that wouldn't be necessary with the online support.

 

Thoughts, please....

__________________

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't want to switch programs, then I would look for a tutor. A good tutor should be able to figure out the most important things for your son to cover to be ready for geometry, too. Dd is using Lials this year, and I think it is a very good and easy to understand text. I do have a math degree, though, so I'm able to help her. I don't have experience with Jacobs to give specific advice on getting through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Graphing linear equations was a MAJOR stumbling block for our younger DS (who struggles with abstract math/algebra). We did Jacobs in grade 9 (age 14-15), and he *sort of* got it, mostly -- except those chapters on graphing linear equations. I finally dumped those few chapters and we moved on.

 

Not feeling he really *grasped* algebra, I had him do the entire MUS Algebra 1 program in the first semester of 10th grade. This time -- second exposure from a different point of view, and DS and being older -- it went MUCH better, and it really "clicked" -- all except that dratted graphing linear equations. Second time round, he did it, but it was just through rote work, not with understanding.

 

The rest of 10th grade, he flew with great success through MUS Geometry. For 11th grade, we did MUS Algebra 2. We would do several chapters. Not truly grasping it. Back up, re-do them. Long break at Christmas, lost all continuity, went back to the beginning, and began to "get it"; worked our way back to where we had left off; slowly went through the rest of the program with repeating of chapters, extra work, etc. Worked all the way through summer, and finally finished just before starting 12th grade in the fall. Not pretty, not with an "A" or complete comprehension, but it was the best we could do, and now it's done. I will add that he finally DID GET the graphing of linear equations at the Algebra 1 level!! (At the end of 11th grade, age 17.5.) He's doing a consumer math for 12th grade, as he is going on to community college, not 4-year college and that will give him more time to mature past LDs and be able to deal with College Math in the timing that works for HIM.

 

 

All this to say -- if it is just ONE specific topic that is continually stumbling your DS, I suggest dropping it for now, and move on. If he is not clicking with the presentation of the material, then you may want to consider going back to TT and giving it a fresh try.

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

 

PS -- ETA:

 

It's been a long, long time since I did algebra, but ... I just don't remember it being this hard. I remember doing pretty basic equations; ds is doing a ton of functions and lots of graphing. Jacobs certainly seems more difficult than TT or Key To Algebra. Is it considered a more difficult program? Are the difficulties that ds is having just a reflection of the complexity (or the unusual approach) of Jacobs? Or have we just not found the right fit?

 

In answer to your question -- no, neither I nor older math-minded DS found Jacobs to be unusual in approach or unusually difficult -- it seemed very gentle and incremental. HOWEVER, as I said, younger DS did not "click" with it in the way I did or older DS did, so I DO think different programs are a match for different students.

 

I hate to tell you to keep switching to something new, so that's why I'm thinking, either it's the particular topic is not clicking for your DS, so leave it for now and come back to it, and see if the rest of Jacobs works, OR, go back to what worked last year, and see if seeing the difficult topic from the past point-of-view that your DS did connect with (TT or Keys to Algebra) "clicks" for him with this topic.

 

BEST of luck in finding what works! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DS #2 has had his ups and downs with algebra as well.

 

I would continue to use the online support as needed! Isn't that what it is for? You could ask them if there is a limit to the amount of times you can use it, but i would keep trying.

 

Also, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for specific help on these message boards. :) Including the high school board. Plus, there is a yahoo group called living math, with many active members where you might find specific help with the jacob's text.

 

DS has used Khan academy videos to explain many concepts he was struggling with.

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if you are going to spend more money at this point, but if you need it to be self teaching maybe kinetic books? It works each problem through step by step, then when you do the practice problems, if you get stuck, you can ask for the next step, then see if you can get it from there. If not, ask for another step, etc. It will walk you through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm thinking of doing Jacobs Algebra with Kinetic Books next year. I like the idea of the online instruction, but I can't tear myself away from the idea of a hardcover algebra book. This year we're doing Horizons pre-algebra along with 8th grade Thinkwell. We do like Thinkwell, and I'm going to continue that with my younger son, but I wanted to try Kinetic Books with my older son.

 

Even so, with math I have sometimes found that there will be a concept that is just not explained so that they get it. So I try different resources to see if another explanation will resonate. Until we finally get over whatever hump is troubling us and can move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Khan academy is great. My son just started using/playing with it yesterday. He was able to pick subject watch a video and do problems until he was deemed proficient. He did some algebra but he tried other things too. Really seemed to enjoy it. My daughter went flying through the trig. section. I was glad to see that she really does know trig well.

 

Another thing he might like is life of Fred. It seems to appeal to all types of learners and levels of ability. I would start with the beganning algebra so he can work on familiar topics for awhile. Plus the books do not follow the familiar sequence. We have never needed to contact the author but he does give you his phone number. People do use it successfully.

 

The best thing about Fred is the story. It is very funny, my kids keep going to find out what happens next. They learn math, hard complicated math along the way which is great. We do suppliment with other texts. After yesterdays Khan academy trial we will use that.

 

Good luck deciding what to do next. Regrouping is always hard on both of you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. :)

 

Haven't decided definitively what to do... It isn't just a single topic that is throwing him. I can't really see any rhyme or reason to it. Some days he is very confident and *knows* that he's done well on the lesson, and he's right! Other days he struggles and misses quite a few problems. (On those days, he says algebra is evil. ;))

 

The first thing I'm going to do is contact the publisher and ask if there is in fact a limit to the amount of help they will provide. Clearly if a student is asking for help on a dozen problems every day, that's not only asking the publisher to act as a tutor, but it's a sign that maybe the student isn't ready for the subject matter or that the program isn't a good fit. Ds doesn't need help on a dozen problems a day, not even close -- it's that the help he does need, I can't give him in most cases. (I think we've been lucky so far that on occasion I've been able to walk him through the problems -- I don't expect that to continue as we get further into the program.)

 

In some ways, I *like* seeing the way he has to struggle with this -- I can see him stop and re-orient his thinking (is there such a thing as "thinking algebraicly"? ;)). But when he still has no idea how to solve the problem ... it frustrates both of us.

 

Kind of wishing now that I'd stayed with Teaching Textbooks, because at least the CDs had every solution worked out. But my thought at the time was, "If even the CDs can't help him..."

 

Ah, well. All of your suggestions are good ones, and I'm mulling them over. Thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But one of the last times we did so, the person who responded suggested that we look at the answer key and work backward to try to figure out how they arrived at the answer. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took that to mean, "You're asking too many questions; try to figure it out for yourself before you contact us."

 

I would not assume that was what they meant. It is actually a critical skill for higher-level math classes to be able to do that. Things like - is my answer close to theirs, or way off (10 vs. 9.9, as opposed to 10 vs. 1000)? Does my answer have the same sign as theirs, or not (positive vs. negative)? Does my answer seem reasonable in the context of the problem? (E.g. an answer like "-10 busses" doesn't make sense.)

 

Do you have a worked-out solution key for your curriculum? That is much, much more helpful than just the answer.

 

I think a tutor could be a wise investment. I tutor math, and one of the things I try to do is watch the child solve a problem, step by step, and see where they are going wrong. I can see if it's a conceptual problem, or a notation problem, or a doing-too-many-things-in-one-step problem. I can find out how they approach certain problems, and if there is a flaw or misconception somewhere in there that needs to be rooted out, exposed, and dealt with. I can suggest strategies that work well with the way their mind works. I have enough higher math background that I can note habits that may be OK now, but will create problems down the line.

 

I would also mention that it's very difficult to do math for more than an hour at a sitting, and/or when you're tired. If you sense that's the case, stop the session and continue another time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...