Gender double standards

[beansprouts]

Yes, I am picking on you, but not really. While you inspired this thread, I have noticed the same thing among women friends in real life. I hope you retain your sense of humor and can take this with the affection it was intended. ;)

 

For the rest: Do you think there is a double-standard as far as what is acceptable behavior for men vs. women? For example, women are more likely to engage in "locker room talk" or openly admire an exquisite example of the human species without suspicion. However if a man were to do the same, we'd be calling for tar and feathers. I admit, I also am more likely to accept this behavior from women, and even enjoy it! Yet from a man it would seem threatening and "wierd". Why is that?

[Danestress]

Maybe if men heard women admiring another man, they would find it a bit threatening and weird too. Honestly, my husband wouldn't appreciate it at all. I think men regularly admire women out loud. But not when you are around:) Or me. Or women generally.

 

Likewise, I just definitely would not be saying, in front of my husband, "That guy is sooooo hot." He just wouldn't be happy about that. But just with my girlfriends? Maybe. I'm not sure what threads you are talking about exactly, so maybe I sound "off" in my answer. But I don't think men call for "tars and feathers" for each other when they admire a woman in a way that isn't really degrading. Just "check out the booty on that one" kind of stuff. Some men think it's tacky, but few are genuinely upset by just the admiration factor. Likewise, women will talk that way amongst themselves, I suppose. But in mixed company, I think it's pretty unacceptable, whatever your gender.

[SusanG]

But in mixed company, I think it's pretty unacceptable, whatever your gender.

 

 

That definitely depends on your peer group - we do it all the time, in mixed company, and no one bats an eyelash.

[Parrothead]

Yet from a man it would seem threatening and "wierd". Why is that?

I don't find it threatening or weird when guys do it. Now their language may be a bit crude when they talk about it. I learned some interesting vocabulary my first year as a cop - not all of it law enforcement realted.

 

I do think it depends on one's peer group. There'd be four or five of us sitting around the table during a meal break with late night cable on. I'd find it :lol: because they'd be oggling plastic parts.

 

It just isn't something you'd do at mother's house though.

[genie]

Well, my husband would literally LOL if I showed him the fence installation thread and my participation in it. Likewise, I'm sure that he gets forwarded emails of all sorts by guys from work, and it doesn't bother me. But we're pretty open that way. For most of my life I worked in male-dominated fields, so it would take a lot to shock me, and I certainly wouldn't call for tar and feathers. Of course, I've worked several Hawaiian Tropic contests with groups of guys, so you can only imagine the things I've heard.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think women are any better or worse than men in this regard. I have to agree with some that it's not done much in mixed company in my circle. Doesn't make it *wrong* to do it in mixed company, my crowd is fairly conservative as far as that sort of thing goes.

[beansprouts]

Well, my husband would literally LOL if I showed him the fence installation thread and my participation in it. Likewise, I'm sure that he gets forwarded emails of all sorts by guys from work, and it doesn't bother me. But we're pretty open that way. For most of my life I worked in male-dominated fields, so it would take a lot to shock me, and I certainly wouldn't call for tar and feathers. Of course, I've worked several Hawaiian Tropic contests with groups of guys, so you can only imagine the things I've heard.

 

So you saw my dilemma also :blushing:

 

I don't think women are any better or worse than men in this regard. I have to agree with some that it's not done much in mixed company in my circle. Doesn't make it *wrong* to do it in mixed company, my crowd is fairly conservative as far as that sort of thing goes.

 

Neither gender is better or worse as far as behaving inappropriately. My question is do you think we sometimes accept behavior from women which would not be tolerated from a man? Let's say we are at a workplace. It might be "okay" for the cute young secretary to flatter the guys, but if a man were to be as forward, he runs the risk of being sued for harrassment. Why is this?

[Riverfront Headmistress]

Like I tell my kids, life isn't always fair. We don't live in a tit-for-tat world.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Like I tell my kids, life isn't always fair. We don't live in a tit-for-tat world.

 

:blink:

 

 

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

[Mrs Mungo]

Neither gender is better or worse as far as behaving inappropriately. My question is do you think we sometimes accept behavior from women which would not be tolerated from a man?Let's say we are at a workplace. It might be "okay" for the cute young secretary to flatter the guys, but if a man were to be as forward, he runs the risk of being sued for harrassment. Why is this?

 

I don't think it's OK, at all, for a cute secretary to "flatter" the guys. Not in the least. I don't think flirting in any way is appropriate in the workplace nor should it be tolerated. Any workplace that does tolerate it is courting trouble.

[brehon]

Heck, I live with a male partner and 4 male firefighters for 1/3 of my life! Let me assure you that the guys I "live" with are very comfortable sharing, um, observations of life, the universe, and everything...you know, women...in my presence. In fact, they often ask my opinion on various topics as the token female in the station. :tongue_smilie:

 

I have definite boundaries beyond which firefighters traverse at their own peril (as far as certain crude talk--and I'm usually pretty easy-going). Other than that I'm fine with most locker room talk. Different strokes and all that. <shrug> In fact, my horizons (and vocabulary) have certainly expanded, just not necessarily in an edifying way.:001_cool:

 

In my non-work setting, I think there are general conventions (i.e. manners) to which both men and women should adhere. I think it's simple courtesy.

[Carol in Cal.]

For instance, a guy changes 1 lousy diaper and gets fluttered over for days. A woman changes 250,000 and gets criticized for taking too long one day.

 

A guy takes his kid on a field trip, and is pretty much idolized by all the other moms. A woman plans her children's entire education, does all the dirty work and discipline, and then hears that she is being neglectful because she missed that one field trip. And, that she really should also be gainfully employed. Or, in the alternative, that she really should be more domestic--milking her own cows or something like that.

 

I want to emphasize here that I am not speaking from personal experience. The hypothetical 'guy' above is not my DH.

 

But that double standard forces a 'super woman' standard onto moms that is really very unreasonable, and staggering.

[summer]

I had a friend who would comment on other men's physical assets and I did not like it. Now, if she said he was good looking and stopped at that, I could accept it. I find I am just as likely to say a woman is good looking. But anytime the talk turns to body shape and other such physical assets, either gender, I just do not like it. The rare exception might be a movie character for me because they are basically sort of "not real." If you get what I mean anyway.

[summer]

The parts that really bother me is if a man gets mad, he is a take control kind of guy, if a woman does, she is a b!tch or a dramaqueen. I never ever tolerate those kind of remarks in my home or from my children and such. If someone starts on my children, I do not allow it. My parents like to claim my DD has PMS even though my son is more emotional than my DD.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't think women are any better or worse than men in this regard. I have to agree with some that it's not done much in mixed company in my circle. Doesn't make it *wrong* to do it in mixed company, my crowd is fairly conservative as far as that sort of thing goes.

 

Some topics aren't necessary in mixed company, but I'm prudish like that. I really have to shake my head at my dh sometimes. "Yes, mate, I'm your friend, but I'm a GIRL and didn't need to hear that!"

 

For instance, a guy changes 1 lousy diaper and gets fluttered over for days.

Oh yeah. "You're so lucky to have a husband who helps out!" It wasn't luck, honey, it was planning!

 

:)

Rosie

[Sarah CB]

There is definitely a double standard. I have always thought that grown men should at some point stop looking at 19 year old girls. I thought their tastes should grow with them.

 

Now I'm "old" and I'm surprised that I still find 19 year old young men attractive. It actually does surprise me. I quite enjoyed that fence post, but the whole time I was looking at it I was thinking that if it were my dh looking at pictures of a young lady in a bikini top I'd probably be questioning why he was looking at someone so young.

[Brindee]

For instance, a guy changes 1 lousy diaper and gets fluttered over for days. A woman changes 250,000 and gets criticized for taking too long one day.

I've noticed that before. Though my dh is very helpful whenever he can be, I was the one that got up at night with the kids most of the time, becuase he had a job all day, and I could fit in snatches of naps here and there during the day where he couldn't...

 

ANYWAY!!! We walked into church one day, dh carrying our first baby when he was just a few months old. People came up to him, "Oh you're such a good daddy! Look how close you are to this little guy and how much you do for him!" And to me, "Wow, you're lucky you have such a helpful husband that does so much!" I smiled and agreed, because I DID (and do) feel blessed. But I had been up with him much of the night for one thing or another. I was very tired, but we all wanted to go to church. I had gotten the diaper bag ready and taken things out to the car. Now I was pushing the stroller and carrying the diaper bag. All dh did was carry the baby from the car to the church! Sheesh, where's the red carpet and crown?! ;) I was happy that people noticed what a wonderful husband I had. But I thought it rather crazy, that they didn't ask how I was doing, or commisserate with me at all! So, at that moment, the inconsistency and unfairness REALLY bugged me! :tongue_smilie:

[beansprouts]

ANYWAY!!! We walked into church one day, dh carrying our first baby when he was just a few months old. People came up to him, "Oh you're such a good daddy! Look how close you are to this little guy and how much you do for him!" And to me, "Wow, you're lucky you have such a helpful husband that does so much!" I smiled and agreed, because I DID (and do) feel blessed. But I had been up with him much of the night for one thing or another. I was very tired, but we all wanted to go to church. I had gotten the diaper bag ready and taken things out to the car. Now I was pushing the stroller and carrying the diaper bag. All dh did was carry the baby from the car to the church! Sheesh, where's the red carpet and crown?! ;) I was happy that people noticed what a wonderful husband I had. But I thought it rather crazy, that they didn't ask how I was doing, or commisserate with me at all! So, at that moment, the inconsistency and unfairness REALLY bugged me! :tongue_smilie:

 

Well you were just doing your JOB of course :banghead:

 

My dh is a great guy also. But I often feel even he assumes the primary responsibility for the children falls on me.

[Night Elf]

My question is do you think we sometimes accept behavior from women which would not be tolerated from a man? Let's say we are at a workplace. It might be "okay" for the cute young secretary to flatter the guys, but if a man were to be as forward, he runs the risk of being sued for harrassment. Why is this?

 

Yes, men and women have different expectations. It's because of gender roles from the past. Yes I've seen women in offices talk about men being cute, but then diss men they've seen talk about women. I guess some women think they can handle it better, like maybe a woman is more likely to keep it confined to thoughts while a man might be more likely to give in to temptations.

 

Think about men and women who are in adulterous relationships. I've always felt that general thoughts are that the man involved has been tempted and mislead by the wiley woman. In other words, it's like the man just made a mistake and can move on, whereas the woman is branded forever as a 'wild thing' (keeping my language clean here). kwim?

 

Here's a weird ironic situation. I know a woman who was the "other woman". She eventually became the Mrs. though it was after the accidental death of the first wife. But still, she was involved with this man for a while when he was married. That man has a daughter who is currently going through a divorce because the son-in-law has decided he doesn't want to be married anymore. He wants to date. I cringed as I listened to this former "other woman" say it was all the 'wild woman's' fault that she tempted the man away from his wife. I'm thinking WHAT? And how is that different from what you did?? Egads!

[Plaid Dad]

A guy takes his kid on a field trip, and is pretty much idolized by all the other moms.

 

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

[LisaNY]

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

 

Oh, Geez!! Ladies! Take note! Let us all remember to make the SAHD's in our midst feel comfortable.

 

We don't have any in our group, but I personally would find that really cool. :001_smile:

[Plaid Dad]

My dw used to work for a major tech company in CA. Most of her colleagues were women. She dreaded going out to lunch with them because the discussions always seemed to turn to "hunky" celebrities, complete with very graphic descriptions of how these women would like to, um, leverage their assets. Dw found it terribly embarrassing, not to mention wildly unprofessional, given the context.

 

The only celebrity my dw has ever gotten even slightly fluttery over in my presence is Orlando Bloom. Remember Lisa Simpson reading "Non-Threatening Boys Magazine"? Yeah, that. :tongue_smilie:

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

 

It's a paradox, isn't it. I bet there are some expectations that you have not lived up to, in the eyes of others. When we choose a path that is not the norm, we become aware of our society's prejudices and stereotypes.

[Plaid Dad]

I bet there are some expectations that you have not lived up to, in the eyes of others.

 

Oh, yes. My brother considers me the King of the GenX Slackers. :glare:

 

The funny part is that now that I'm working outside the house part-time, I feel guilty for the time I'm away from dd - even though her mama works at home and is right there with her. There's no winning the blame game.

[Night Elf]

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

 

How true that is! I knew a homeschooling dad years ago. He brought his kids to the weekly park day. He was super nice and I don't remember any one treating him differently. We were a small group. But I've seen lots of online conversations about some women feeling weird with a married man in a group. I've also heard comments about a man's underlying motives being near a group of women and children. That seems completely unfair doesn't it? Why would it seem strange for a homeschool and/or sahd to take an interest in his children's lives? Because of unfair gender roles! (which reminds me.... Heavens forbid little Johnny have a doll. It might make him gay!)

[SnowWhite]

For the rest: Do you think there is a double-standard as far as what is acceptable behavior for men vs. women? For example, women are more likely to engage in "locker room talk" or openly admire an exquisite example of the human species without suspicion. However if a man were to do the same, we'd be calling for tar and feathers. I admit, I also am more likely to accept this behavior from women, and even enjoy it! Yet from a man it would seem threatening and "wierd". Why is that?

 

I think it is because of the power disparity between men and women. Physically, men are stronger. The ancient history of male/female relationships includes a lot of kidnapping and forcing of women. Men are much less vulnerable physically.

 

At our house, we're pretty even in our "jealousy" responses. I will cover dh's eyes when the *hubba, hubba* bikini comes on the screen, and he will do the same when Brad Pitt's in the shower or something.

[Plaid Dad]

I've also heard comments about a man's underlying motives being near a group of women and children.

 

I've definitely seen that. I learned very quickly that if I smile at a woman with a child and my dd is not with me, I need to follow that up right away with "I have an X-year-old at home" so that my attention is not misconstrued. The last thing I want to do is make moms uncomfortable, but it also makes me sad that a grown man can't enjoy the company of children without being taken for a criminal. :( I have a friend who's a (male) elementary school teacher, and he's experienced the same thing. (I'm not blaming people for being cautious; it's just sad that we have to be.)

 

I'm looking forward to being a grandpa - or at least grandpa age - since they can be silly around kids and people think it's cute. :)

[elegantlion]

I used to work in a large office. There was a lot of flirting between many people. They had worked together for years. However, when we went through s*xual harassment training the office got really quiet for a few months. Most of the flirting could have been perceived as harassment.

[abreakfromlife]

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

 

that would be a tough position to be in. We're not really involved much in our homeschool group yet, but when we are, I can see how that would be awkward. I would be one of the ones that wouldn't be talking much to the dads beyond very surface-y comments. Dh and I have a policy that we're not friends with people of the opp. sex unless we are both friends with them. And even then, we don't have a lot of one on one conversations with them. It's just a way to protect our marriage. There's no guaranteeing affairs won't happen - emotional or physical, and they always start with friendship, so we just cut that off at the pass. We're only friends with people of the opp. sex as a couple. But, I'd still feel badly for you that there were no other dads there for you. :closedeyes:

 

 

 

and I think there is a seemingly double-standard with men and women b/c men and women are very different sexual ppl and men are very visual whereas women are emotional. Men mean something different than women do when they are commenting on a person.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Men mean something different than women do when they are commenting on a person.

 

Ummm, well, not always. At least, not in my experience.

[Plaid Dad]

and I think there is a seemingly double-standard with men and women b/c men and women are very different sexual ppl and men are very visual whereas women are emotional. Men mean something different than women do when they are commenting on a person.

 

Some men and some women. I rarely comment on people's looks at all. It's just not something it would occur to me to do.

 

ETA: Sorry - that came off snippy. It's not that I don't notice beauty; I do, although I don't share mainstream tastes. (God bless Angelina Jolie, but she leaves me cold!) My dw, however, is far more visually aware than I am, and I am more attracted to intelligence than to a particular arrangement of body parts. My dw and I met on a mailing list, and I was taken with her before I had any idea what she looked like. It certainly helps that she's gorgeous, :) but there are lots of attractive women I wouldn't have given a second thought.

 

So I'm not saying that there is no truth in the generalization that men as a class tend to be more stimulated visually, only that it is a generalization and one that does not hold for every individual case - including mine.

[Brindee]

 

That is, when he's not being ignored by all the moms who feel uncomfortable because there's a SAHD in their midst. :(

Actually I HAVE noticed that happening. We went on a trip to our capital with a homeschool group we were in at the time. The wife couldn't make it, but it was the only day it was happening, so the dad voluntarily took the day off to take the kids! I thought it was neat! But some of the other moms kind of shied away from him, cuz they didn't know what to say. One even asked me, "What's HE doing here?!!!" I said, "Being a great dad!!!"