Talk to me about MathCounts

[daijobu]

I'm just becoming familiar with MathCounts, and considering coaching a HS group next year. I understand from the manual that a group consists of a team of 4 plus 6 individuals. They recommend that the best students be placed on the team.

 

Trouble is, I don't always know who the best students are.

 

Have any of you coached a MC group? Is there a huge difference in the experiences of students competing as a team versus as individuals? (Are teams more fun?)

 

How did you select who should be on a team and who should be an individual?

 

THanks so much! --Vida

[Kathy in Richmond]

MathCounts is fabulous! I coached both of my kids along with some other homeschoolers. We could never attract more than three kids at a time, though, so we just went as individuals to the regional competititon. It's still fun for the kids, but the chances of advancement to the state tournament are greater if you're part of a team.

 

MathCounts will send you lots of training materials when you register officially. One of items included in the mailings will be a "school test"; it's usually suggested that you use this test as part of your team selection procedure in December or January. It would at least give you an objective measurement to use in choosing your team.:001_smile:

[letsplaymath]

Have any of you coached a MC group? Is there a huge difference in the experiences of students competing as a team versus as individuals? (Are teams more fun?)

 

How did you select who should be on a team and who should be an individual?

Everyone should be a team, even the individuals. That is, you practice together and solve problems out loud and explore ideas and share tips and solutions. And sometimes you break into smaller groups and race each other to solve problems, and sometimes you even practice individually.

 

Then, in January, you use the "school" competition to choose the 4 students who will officially represent your group at the regional competition. In our region, we can also take an alternate (who competes as an unofficial individual (that is, he can't advance, and some years the alternate's answers were not scored -- I think it depended on the number of volunteers they had), unless someone is sick and then he moves onto the team). And then if you want to pay to take extra, official individual competitors, that is up to you. (We never had enough students for that -- sometimes we're begging kids to come on the team, and one year I had to draft my son.)

 

After the school competition and selection of the official team, we usually have several practices together before the regional meet. In addition to solving problems, we talk about strategies -- for instance, my gang didn't like to work together on the Team Round problems, but prefer to each call out the number of the problem he wanted to tackle and share the work that way.

 

At the regional competition, there are two individual rounds: Sprint (shorter, non-calculator problems) and Target (longer word problems with calculators allowed). There should be a short break between rounds. Then the third round is the Team Round, where the team members are allowed to talk together and share the work however they wish. At our regional, the alternates were grouped into sets of 4 to do the Team Round, but that's not nearly as much fun as working with your friends.

 

The MathCounts resources are good, but they are not organized in any logical manner, so they are not as useful for learning new material as for random practice. Check out the wonderful resources at the AGMath site. I especially like his Introduction to Counting, which later became part of his excellent book Competition Math for Middle School.

 

Alcumus, at the AoPS website, is also great practice. And be sure to go over old tests, and review the sometimes-quirky way that MathCounts wants their answers written.

 

These blog posts are a little old, since I haven't had a team recently (for instance, they were written before I discovered agmath.com):

MathCounts — Ready or Not, Here It Comes

 

 

Math Club: Counting 101

 

 

 

 

 

[wapiti]

Can anyone comment on whether there is a particular "level" of math is usually completed before participating in MathCounts?

[angela in ohio]

My dd participated this year on her own as an individual, with me as coach. I tried to get a team (I even offered to pay for it,) but I couldn't get any other homeschoolers to participate (everyone says their kids hate math. :confused:)

 

She progressed to the state contest, which is in two weeks. :D We did practice two times with the public school team here, so she knew them plus a boy from her robotics team. Our local contest allowed the individuals to do the team part just for fun, so she still got the full experience. Dd prepared with the AOPS materials, including the Middle School Math Contest book.

 

Just an encouragement in case anyone reads this and wants to do it on their own.

 

***A funny side note: The local contest allowed the coaches to take the test during the competition. A lot of the other coaches were asking the usual questions about homeschool ("Do they get to go out of the house and do things like this often?", "How do you teach them things you aren't certified for?", etc.) and treating me like a second-class citizen. Well, they announced the top three coach's scores, and I was one of them. Hahahaha.... :lol:***

[daijobu]

We could never attract more than three kids at a time, though, so we just went as individuals to the regional competititon. It's still fun for the kids, but the chances of advancement to the state tournament are greater if you're part of a team.

 

.:001_smile:

 

Thank you, Kathy. I think I may be in the same boat, with fewer than 4 kids. Can you explain why it is more likely for a team to advance than an individual?

[daijobu]

 

(We never had enough students for that -- sometimes we're begging kids to come on the team, and one year I had to draft my son.)

 

 

 

The MathCounts resources are good, but they are not organized in any logical manner, so they are not as useful for learning new material as for random practice. Check out the wonderful resources at the AGMath site. I especially like his Introduction to Counting, which later became part of his excellent book Competition Math for Middle School.

 

Alcumus, at the AoPS website, is also great practice. And be sure to go over old tests, and review the sometimes-quirky way that MathCounts wants their answers written.

 

These blog posts are a little old, since I haven't had a team recently (for instance, they were written before I discovered agmath.com):

MathCounts — Ready or Not, Here It Comes

 

Math Club: Counting 101

 

 

 

Thank you! I'll definitely look in to these resources. I'm glad I have the summer to recruit team members!

[daijobu]

My dd participated this year on her own as an individual, with me as coach. I tried to get a team (I even offered to pay for it,) but I couldn't get any other homeschoolers to participate (everyone says their kids hate math. :confused:)

 

I'm so with you. I'm having a hard time getting others to participate. Did you feel like it is more difficult for individuals to advance than teams?

 

 

She progressed to the state contest, which is in two weeks. :D

Just an encouragement in case anyone reads this and wants to do it on their own.

 

 

Congratulations to your dd! Keep us informed about her progress!

 

 

***A funny side note: The local contest allowed the coaches to take the test during the competition. ...and treating me like a second-class citizen. Well, they announced the top three coach's scores, and I was one of them. Hahahaha.... :lol:***

 

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree! Congrats to you, too!

[chepyl]

My dd participated this year on her own as an individual, with me as coach. I tried to get a team (I even offered to pay for it,) but I couldn't get any other homeschoolers to participate (everyone says their kids hate math. :confused:)

 

She progressed to the state contest, which is in two weeks. :D We did practice two times with the public school team here, so she knew them plus a boy from her robotics team. Our local contest allowed the individuals to do the team part just for fun, so she still got the full experience. Dd prepared with the AOPS materials, including the Middle School Math Contest book.

 

Just an encouragement in case anyone reads this and wants to do it on their own.

 

***A funny side note: The local contest allowed the coaches to take the test during the competition. A lot of the other coaches were asking the usual questions about homeschool ("Do they get to go out of the house and do things like this often?", "How do you teach them things you aren't certified for?", etc.) and treating me like a second-class citizen. Well, they announced the top three coach's scores, and I was one of them. Hahahaha.... :lol:***

 

That is awesome! What did they do then?

[Kathy in Richmond]

Can anyone comment on whether there is a particular "level" of math is usually completed before participating in MathCounts?

 

It helps to have some basic algebra and geometry for MathCounts. That said, my daughter started playing with MathCounts problems for fun in late elementary school. Kids can learn a lot simply working through the problems if you keep it fun. One year I coached a boy who was concurrently in Math-U-See prealgebra, though it was fairly frustrating for him during his first year (he was also a very young sixth grader).

 

AoPS offers a basic MathCounts class; if you look at their syllabus, you'll see what's covered: algebra, geometry, number theory, and counting/probability. Of course, MC problems can be much more challenging than those found in the typical algebra 1 or geometry class. It's similar in challenge to the AMC 8 with added length and the fun of working with fellow participants. :).

 

My dd participated this year on her own as an individual, with me as coach. I tried to get a team (I even offered to pay for it,) but I couldn't get any other homeschoolers to participate (everyone says their kids hate math. :confused:)

 

She progressed to the state contest, which is in two weeks. :D We did practice two times with the public school team here, so she knew them plus a boy from her robotics team. Our local contest allowed the individuals to do the team part just for fun, so she still got the full experience. Dd prepared with the AOPS materials, including the Middle School Math Contest book.

 

Just an encouragement in case anyone reads this and wants to do it on their own.

 

***A funny side note: The local contest allowed the coaches to take the test during the competition. A lot of the other coaches were asking the usual questions about homeschool ("Do they get to go out of the house and do things like this often?", "How do you teach them things you aren't certified for?", etc.) and treating me like a second-class citizen. Well, they announced the top three coach's scores, and I was one of them. Hahahaha.... :lol:***

 

Way to go, Angela and dd!!! Yes, it's still rewarding and fun to do MC with an individual if you can't find a team. That's exactly what I had to do with my son; I could only find other homeschoolers when my daughter participated. So disappointed that we couldn't round up a whole team, but I got similar reactions (math...yuk! who'd want to do more than they had to?! :001_huh:) And yes, our regional competition allows kids to be on unofficial fun teams, too.

 

That's a great story about your taking the test with the other coaches! I'm surprised that they gave the test to the coaches and graded it...I've never seen that happen around here. Usually they distribute copies of the test to the coaches for fun, though. A couple of years ago, when my dd coached a MC team, we caught her explaining some of the answers to her fellow (much older) school teacher coaches...lol! And when I brought my son to states ten years ago, they made an announcement at the beginning of the day that they had a homeschooler in the competition (I think we might have been the first in VA). I got similar comments all day long about homeschooling; I don't think anybody thought that that my ds was serious competition. Then at the awards ceremony, they announced "best new school in VA"...and guess who won? LOL

 

Best of luck to your daughter at states this month!!

 

Thank you, Kathy. I think I may be in the same boat, with fewer than 4 kids. Can you explain why it is more likely for a team to advance than an individual?

 

In our area, the top team and the top 2 individuals not on that team advance to states. In several areas, more than one team advances, but usually not more than 2 or 3 individuals. So most kids at states got there by being on a winning team. The rules vary from region to region, though, so you should check with your local MC coordinator to see how your region works.

[wapiti]

It helps to have some basic algebra and geometry for MathCounts. That said, my daughter started playing with MathCounts problems for fun in late elementary school. Kids can learn a lot simply working through the problems if you keep it fun. One year I coached a boy who was concurrently in Math-U-See prealgebra, though it was fairly frustrating for him during his first year (he was also a very young sixth grader).

 

AoPS offers a basic MathCounts class; if you look at their syllabus, you'll see what's covered: algebra, geometry, number theory, and counting/probability. Of course, MC problems can be much more challenging than those found in the typical algebra 1 or geometry class. It's similar in challenge to the AMC 8 with added length and the fun of working with fellow participants. :).

 

Excellent description - that's very helpful!!! Thank you!!! We were at dd's prospective middle school the other day and noticed a poster for MathCounts and math club, and I wasn't sure whether it was more a middle school or high school thing. I can see that a lot of AoPS Prealgebra is helpful though :D. I don't know if my dd will be interested, but I'm keeping all this in mind for ds9, when he gets to a middle school (we might choose that one).

[2_girls_mommy]

My dd participated this year on her own as an individual, with me as coach. I tried to get a team (I even offered to pay for it,) but I couldn't get any other homeschoolers to participate (everyone says their kids hate math. :confused:)

 

She progressed to the state contest, which is in two weeks. :D We did practice two times with the public school team here, so she knew them plus a boy from her robotics team. Our local contest allowed the individuals to do the team part just for fun, so she still got the full experience. Dd prepared with the AOPS materials, including the Middle School Math Contest book.

 

Just an encouragement in case anyone reads this and wants to do it on their own.

 

***A funny side note: The local contest allowed the coaches to take the test during the competition. A lot of the other coaches were asking the usual questions about homeschool ("Do they get to go out of the house and do things like this often?", "How do you teach them things you aren't certified for?", etc.) and treating me like a second-class citizen. Well, they announced the top three coach's scores, and I was one of them. Hahahaha.... :lol:***

 

Thanks for the encouragement and the funny story. I participated in Mathcounts growing up, and would love for my kids to do so as well!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Have they changed the rules to allow homeschoolers to form teams again?

[Kathy in Richmond]

Have they changed the rules to allow homeschoolers to form teams again?

 

Yes, homeschool teams can participate this year.:) The current rules state:

 

Homeschools in compliance with the homeschool laws of the state in which they are located are eligible to participate in MATHCOUNTS competitions in accordance with all other rules. Homeschool coaches must complete a Homeschool Participation Attestation Form, verifying that students from the homeschool or

homeschool group are in the sixth, seventh or eighth grade and that each homeschool complies with applicable state laws. Completed attestations must be submitted to the national office before registrations will be

processed. A Homeschool Participation Attestation Form can be downloaded from the right navigation bar by visiting www.mathcounts.org/competition. Please fax attestations to 703-299-5009.

---taken from the 2011-12 MC School Handbook

[angela in ohio]

That is awesome! What did they do then?

 

They just sort of stared at me. I'm ashamed to admit that I found it really awesome. :001_cool: I won a subscription to an extra MathCounts practice site for an entire school, so I asked them to give it to our local public school team instead (they won a team spot to state.) I did get a $20 gift certificate to AOPS, though, which was handy.

 

The organizer is the city engineer in a town near here, and he couldn't have been nicer to me. I thanked him many times for being so open to our participation. They had never had a homeschool participant before, and we had prticipated as a team in a different city with a friend's family the year before.

 

I knew you guys would understand how fun it was! :D I really enjoyed taking the test itself, too. I had been a "Mathelete" in junior high and high school, and it was fun. The top two students did beat the top three coaches, though. :D

 

I guess it is harder to go as an individual, but how much harder would depend on whether the rest of your team was any good.

[Julie of KY]

Mathcounts is awesome. It fuels my son to learn more math so he can do better on mathcounts competition.

 

Last year my son competed as an individual. It was a fantastic experience.

 

This year we recruited a few homeschool friends to do math with us. We entered a team of three. I asked the national office if it mattered if we had four people - they said three was fine. They didn't bother to tell me that we'd have a zero averaged in as our fourth score. Even with a zero, our homeschool team beat half the public school teams.

 

My son made it to state this year and is hoping to go to national next year (or maybe even this year).

 

The number of teams and individuals that move on to state vary by region. It is based on the total number of people participating in the chapter. We had 150 students (19 teams) this year. Three teams and the top seven inididuals not on those teams make it to state. The national team members often come out of our chapter so it is a competitive chapter.

 

Art of Problem Solving has great resources for preparing for mathcounts.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oh, that's great to hear. I didn't bother looking this year because I thought it was a closed door. Maybe I can recruit some kiddos for next year.

 

We've been having a good time with AoPS Algebra and the AMC 8 exam was quite the topic around here.

[unity]

We tried Mathcounts this year and it's been really fun. Actually, we kind of went on a whim to the regional competition; we hadn't prepared at all for the test or anything. But my older boys love math, went to Mathpath last summer (going again this summer), and do Calculus for their math this year. I am not their math teacher, my husband is, but I brought them to the competition.

 

Anyway, everyone was really nice to me, even as a homeschooler--maybe even especially as a homeschooler. One of the veteran teachers took me up to see the trophies (I didn't know there would be trophies at stake!), and when my boys placed 2nd and 6th individually after the morning tests, when I walked in, the organizer exclaimed, "There she is!" The son who came in 6th overall went on to win the "countdown" round, so we went home loaded with trophies. As I went up to accept the plaque for coach of the 2nd-placed individual, one of the other teachers called out, "Way to go! Nice job, coach!" So I definitely felt welcomed.

 

The boys both advanced to the state competition (phew!) and now they are studying...now that they realize they might win glory and trophies, not to mention a trip to Orlando if they do well enough! :001_smile:

 

I'm definitely a fan of Mathcounts now!