Is Latin nessecary to understand English?

[AmyontheFarm]

My special needs son (11) struggles with writing a three paragraph story in English. Forget about proper spelling. But now I'm feeling pressured that if I would just teach him basic Latin he would understand English better. :001_huh:

 

Tell me please that Latin in not essential for every homeschool child's education!

 

Now my dd8 on the other hand would thrive with Latin and I could see her having fun with it, but she doesn't have any special needs other then having me as a mother. :lol:

[Tokyomarie]

My special needs son (11) struggles with writing a three paragraph story in English. Forget about proper spelling. But now I'm feeling pressured that if I would just teach him basic Latin he would understand English better. :001_huh:

 

Tell me please that Latin in not essential for every homeschool child's education!

 

Now my dd8 on the other hand would thrive with Latin and I could see her having fun with it, but she doesn't have any special needs other then having me as a mother. :lol:

 

Oh, my! While some dyslexic students find Latin a good language to study if they have to study a foreign language, it is by no means necessary for any student, let alone a special needs student to study Latin. Both of my children with language-based learning challenges did Latin & Greek-root based vocabulary study in high school, but I did not require them to take a Latin course. My daughter is now a college graduate and she has survived just fine! My oldest- who has no known challenges- did study Latin, but not until high school.

 

Caveat: both of my daughters grew up bilingual, but their second language is not a European language, so it sure didn't help them with their study of English, though it did help with language learning in general.

[happyhomemaker]

I never took Latin, and I majored in English. I don't think my comprehension of English was hindered in any way by my lack of Latin. That being said, I am making my dd learn Latin. I think picking up English grammar and vocabulary is easy if you have Latin as a base, but it's not an absolute necessity.

Edited March 4, 2012 by happyhomemaker

[PeterPan]

Isn't it amazing to us how the forums, that are supposed to be so HELPFUL to us, turn into these pressure vats that make us turn off our brains to what we see in our child? ;)

 

Here's a simple answer. An inflected language requires *processing* to work. Yes, if you work with them, some SN kids will still be able to MEMORIZE the components. But when it comes time to PROCESS that information, for some kids it's just not going to be reality. We did PL, LC1, and half of LC2. I switched over to Latin Prep and tried that, and we've done some Cambridge Latin. We are no latin slouches! But the reality is, when my daughter tries to actually inflect and do the latin on the fly, as a normal person should be able to, she bogs down to the point where steam starts coming out her ears. I said this for YEARS, and nobody pulled me aside and said "Hey you idiot, that's her PROCESSING SPEED!" But I was at least not dumb enough to ignore what even I could see happening. I knew it wasn't normal but didn't know WHY.

 

So we got the neuropsych eval, got the numbers, and basically I cried that I ever put her through that.

 

So there. You make your decision based on your child. I'm just saying there's an awful lot that can be lived without. Know your kid. Get the eval, get the numbers, and make the decision that fits your situation.

 

I'll take it the next logical step further. Would getting improvement on working memory help? Would Interactive Metronome help? I don't know. Nothing we've done so far has made a serious improvement. We're working through things, but it has been slow-going, both with teenage hormones (oh my, don't even go there) and being way over-busy with co-op stuff. If someone else has gotten processing speed to bump at some point, GOOD FOR THEM. I'm just saying I've got to teach to our reality right now, not some theory of where it could be someday. And the reality, RIGHT NOW, is that the EXTREME effort it takes for her to process an inflected language, the wear and tear, the fatigue, the agony, just isn't worth it. My kid can run circles around somebody else's kid on history, and that other kid can run circles around my kid on latin. Oh well.

Edited March 4, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

BTW, totally not what you asked for, but we could talk about writing with that 11 yo if you want... Have you had him evaluated yet to know what you're dealing with? Many kids need more STRUCTURE to succeed in writing. I'm saying there are structure gaps in their thought process that would blow your mind. And honestly, when we hit 12, my dd's brain started going down the toilet. Things she used to be able to do, would have her looking at you like you grew a horn and 3rd eye!

 

So I wouldn't sweat too much over the no 3 paragraph story thing. Might not be structured enough. Might be a handwriting thing. Might not be something he has inside.

 

Battles I think are worth picking? Typing!!!!!!!!!! Does he type? My dd was at 14 wpm using a regular keyboard layout, just couldn't get anywhere, and was actually getting worse. I switched her over to the Dvorak keyboard layout, which is a simple toggle (at least on a mac), started her on Mavis Beacon, and now she is at 35 wpm!!!!!!!!! That was from Christmas (or whenever I started blathering about this on the boards) to now. Seriously. And that makes a HUGE difference in her ability to get things out.

 

Our neuropsych recommended we get software that helps them see the structure of writing. Scrivener is awesome, Inspiration, and DraftBuilder. DraftBuilder is stupid expensive, but it has the templates built in. Right now what we're doing is just working on outlining. I have her reading articles from Muse magazine and outlining them. I think when we are concerned about writing at this age, in reality what we're concerned about is whether they'll even be able to write a coherent, logical paragraph, let alone essay, someday! So I figure if I have her outlining *something that is a model for what I actually would like her to be able to write* then I'm on the right track. WTM has you outlining stuff that isn't even what these kids will ever write. History encyclopedias??? Full length biographies where you pull out just a few pages??? How are you supposed to see the structure, the flow of the argument??? I think it makes more sense to have them outline something that is exactly like what you want them to be able to do. That way there are no inferences, no leaps of logic. And you should see. All I had her doing was a sentence for each paragraph this week, and suddenly ALL THE LIGHTBULBS came on in this blessed child's head as she realized the last paragraph was one big jumble!! Ding, ding, a closing paragraph!!! You could tell her all that till you're blue, but discovering it made it click.

 

So that wasn't what you asked for but a little bonus. It's the perpetual topic, how to get structured, logical writing from a teenage, hormonal brain that didn't have much structure and order to start with , lol. A narrative can be outlined as well. Writing Tales 2 has particularly good methodology with that. But then you have working memory issues and just holding all that. If that's what you want to do, setting that outline onto notecards in Scrivener would be particularly effective. So you'd put the sentence outline points onto cards, and they would write from that. It would give them an external memory, a support. Scrivener has a generous free trial that counts days used, not days installed. Give it a whirl. :)

Edited March 4, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Barbara H]

Homeschooling is about a custom education that's a good fit for your kid. Do what works. Don't do what doesn't work. You know your child best.

[LizzyBee]

Helpful - yes.

Necessary - no.

 

Mastery of basic English reading and spelling is usually the criterion for beginning Latin, so if your sn child isn't there, I wouldn't start it. My 10 yo dyslexic dd has memorized some Latin rules and phrases at Classical Conversations, but that's all we've done because English is confusing enough for her without adding Latin to the mix.

 

Interesting tidbit on the subject: Winston Churchill was not allowed to take Latin with his schoolmates because he wasn't "smart" enough. I don't remember if he finally took it in high school or college, but it was one or the other. Makes me wonder if he was a bit dyslexic, since he obviously had no lack of intelligence.

Edited March 5, 2012 by LizzyBee

[Walking-Iris]

Another vote for don't sweat it. I prefer word root studies. But as far as learning an entire dead language...I'm not sold on it yet. Our local high school offers Latin, and that's intriguing. But I know a *whole* lot of people who understand English just fine without having studied Latin. I can see the appeal as an interesting mental exercise, but with sn kids---we have plenty of things to worry about without adding extra, unnecessary mental exercises.

[AmyontheFarm]

Thanks Everyone.

 

I'm going to leave Latin on the back burner for him, for now. I'm thinking I'll revisit this issue in a couple of years and determine then if it is something we want to wade through.

 

Thanks, again.