Heart aching for one of my high school seniors. Gobsmacked at her parents.

[FaithManor]

Thanks to everyone who contributed their thoughts.

 

Faith

Edited March 4, 2012 by FaithManor

[creekland]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

[J-rap]

That's very sad, but great that you are there to help advise her! I don't think it means the end of the world for her though. I'd recommend a gap year, too... She can get a job, earn some money, maybe do some interesting volunteer work, do proper college applications, and have another shot at the ACT. Perhaps she could take some classes at a community college.

 

So far, all of my kids have been pretty laid back about college immediately after high school. They've all taken interesting gap years, taken the SAT two or three times, and then gotten into the college of their choice with good scholarships after that. There are lots of ways of doing it.

 

I don't think it needs to be so stressful and complicated for her. She has time to get on track.

[rockala]

Yes, your whole post just screams gap year.....it will be best for them all, she can wait and take ACT/SAT this fall and get her scores and apply on time after she researchs where her desrired major is with some realistic goals of where to apply, after taking a practice test. Maybe even applying some early decision this fall where the applciation is free.

 

My daughter is taking a class at the local CC and in their paper this week was an article written by a student who took the gap year and just worked. It was not always easy as she did not have money to do a lot, but it did a lot for her in other ways, not just financial and she wrote how more students should consider it. It is not just for rich kids who can go do Outward Bound programs and the like. It can be a year of much maturity.

 

I hope she considers this at it certainly looks like a good option for her.

 

Kathy

[Mommyfaithe]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

 

:iagree::iagree:

Work, test prep and testing, applications ...etc.

 

In would advise her to get some kind of job or internship in a field connected somehow to her goal. It would look great on her applications. Even if she has to work a part time paying job and volunteer for an intern position in her field, that would give her some money to sock away, and experience in her chosen field. Both good things to have when starting college.

 

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

That's very sad, but great that you are there to help advise her! I don't think it means the end of the world for her though. I'd recommend a gap year, too... She can get a job, earn some money, maybe do some interesting volunteer work, do proper college applications, and have another shot at the ACT. Perhaps she could take some classes at a community college.

 

So far, all of my kids have been pretty laid back about college immediately after high school. They've all taken interesting gap years, taken the SAT two or three times, and then gotten into the college of their choice with good scholarships after that. There are lots of ways of doing it.

 

I don't think it needs to be so stressful and complicated for her. She has time to get on track.

:iagree: life is just beginning at 18......

[Jane in NC]

Perhaps a community college might offer a intermediary step that will help this student in her matriculation to a four year program.

 

Sigh...

 

I have encountered people who feel that if a student wishes to attend college, he or she needs to take the necessary steps to make it happen. What is sad is that the tools needed to take these steps are not provided. Some kids are truly disadvantaged.

[FaithManor]

NM

Edited March 4, 2012 by FaithManor

[Ester Maria]

I have encountered people who feel that if a student wishes to attend college, he or she needs to take the necessary steps to make it happen.

I am of that opinion.

 

While I do feel sorry that a bright kid will have to wait another semester / year to reach her goals, Faith's post actually reeks of personal responsibility (i.e. lack of it) to me, not so much of family responsibility.

 

Her parents were not even "supposed" to do anything - *she* was the one who had to know whether her prospective majors are offered at schools she was applying at (what do you mean she is finding out now that her major is not even offered?! that is irresponsible on HER part, not her parents' part), what were the standardized tests she had to take and what the admissions process included, she was the one that had to make different internet arrangements if needed (at a friend, ask school to provide her with computer time if she cannot use one at home, seek help about internet *in advance*), test prep book can be borrowed too, she was the one that had to research majors, her parents' only duty was to finance (and even that we could debate...) and sign whatever they had to sign. Everything else was HER duty and things going wrong now are HER responsibility.

 

I too vote for a gap year if at all possible - and for completely owning her failure this time. She is an adult already, all of these things should be her responsibility, regardless of her parents "values" about finding somebody to marry ASAP.

[MyThreeSons]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

 

I totally agree!

[MyThreeSons]

While I do feel sorry that a bright kid will have to wait another semester / year to reach her goals, Faith's post actually reeks of personal responsibility (i.e. lack of it) to me, not so much of family responsibility.

 

... snip ....

 

I too vote for a gap year if at all possible - and for completely owning her failure this time. She is an adult already, all of these things should be her responsibility, regardless of her parents "values" about finding somebody to marry ASAP.

 

I agree with this too. The gap year would be a great time for maturing and owning up to her responsibility in all of this.

 

If no paid jobs are available, she ought to volunteer somewhere. Many times volunteer positions turn into paid positions once the employer sees that the kid is willing to work hard, be responsible, etc. without even being paid.

[AngieW in Texas]

Is there any possibility of her doing something like Americorps? That would give her a gap year with a paycheck and she'll likely be away from home so she can actually pull her stuff together herself.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

 

 

Exactly. What a sad situation.

 

But she can turn this around. A job would give her the money to make some of her own decisions without needing her parents' approval - such as buying test prep books, signing up for tests, applying to college, etc.. Obviously she'll still need the parents to do their part with the financial info and all, but she should have a bit more control. I would think that with a gap year, some decent test scores by next late fall, and a letter from you explaining the situation, colleges should be open to accepting her. Is there a library she can go to for internet use? Or could she be given permission to come to your school, or your office, to do what she needs to do with college admissions? If you could somehow keep mentoring her through next year, I think that would make all the difference in the world.

 

How incredibly frustrating this must be to both of you. :grouphug:

[Dustybug]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

 

:iagree:I was that kid. My mother was not at all interested/involved in preparing me for college. I was on my own from middle school on when it came to any type of school issue. I had to apply for everything alone and I paid for everything on my own. I did not go away to college until I was 20. I waited tables until I had enough money to go and then packed my bags and drove myself all the way there alone.

 

I understand the economy is hard, but I'm sure she can find something, even if it isn't the best job. Can she keep babysitting? Become a nanny?

[Brigid in NC]

I'd be advising that it's time for a gap year (work & save money, work on scores, etc) and apply properly in the fall.

 

There's no way I'd advise trying to go anywhere this fall.

 

:iagree: Where was the school guidance counselor in 9th-11th?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am of that opinion.

 

While I do feel sorry that a bright kid will have to wait another semester / year to reach her goals, Faith's post actually reeks of personal responsibility (i.e. lack of it) to me, not so much of family responsibility.

 

Her parents were not even "supposed" to do anything - *she* was the one who had to know whether her prospective majors are offered at schools she was applying at (what do you mean she is finding out now that her major is not even offered?! that is irresponsible on HER part, not her parents' part), what were the standardized tests she had to take and what the admissions process included, she was the one that had to make different internet arrangements if needed (at a friend, ask school to provide her with computer time if she cannot use one at home, seek help about internet *in advance*), test prep book can be borrowed too, she was the one that had to research majors, her parents' only duty was to finance (and even that we could debate...) and sign whatever they had to sign. Everything else was HER duty and things going wrong now are HER responsibility.

 

I too vote for a gap year if at all possible - and for completely owning her failure this time. She is an adult already, all of these things should be her responsibility, regardless of her parents "values" about finding somebody to marry ASAP.

 

I only half agree with this. She's been getting incorrect information from the adults in her life up until now and not only from her parents. It's hard to push for more correct information if you don't know that what you've been told is incorrect.

[elegantlion]

:iagree: Where was the school guidance counselor in 9th-11th?

 

IIRC this was the same counselor that advised a student he'd have no problem getting a basketball scholarship, I could be wrong, even though they are a small private school, not playing in top division.

[snowbeltmom]

:iagree: Where was the school guidance counselor in 9th-11th?

:iagree:

 

My parents were not involved in the college application process when I applied, but I did not have to figure it out on my own - that was the job of our high school guidance counselor.

[Ester Maria]

I only half agree with this. She's been getting incorrect information from the adults in her life up until now and not only from her parents. It's hard to push for more correct information if you don't know that what you've been told is incorrect.

But that is the point at which she, as a soon to be adult soon to be fully in charge of her life and choices, HAD to step in and OWN the process - double check everything for herself, inform herself of her options, and not blindly follow whatever she gets told by other people.

 

[deleting some personal stuff]

 

I also know a certain number of kids who got themselves into US colleges from Europe, without ANY help from their parents (many of whom have limited English skills) and who literally went through the same process on their own, in a foreign language, applying to a foreign school system, NO guidance counselors (such a thing does not EXIST in much of Europe), having to seek some help in embassies, etc., overall, a lot more serious process. And they did it. At the same age, 17-18 years old. I am simply not buying that an average teen could not do a lot simpler process on their own, especially in a social and academic climate in which their peers are doing it, they have people to contact, access to internet, etc.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Ester Maria

[G5052]

The parents here are not setting their child up for success in college.

 

The teen should have been more proactive about asking the questions needed to do this.

 

That said, those in my homeschooling circles aren't always doing that much better. I hear...

 

 

• I had no idea that we needed more than Algebra II to get into a 4-year school.
   
  
• I thought that foriegn languages didn't have to be taken until college.
   
  
• He/she has never liked writing, so I didn't expect much, and now he/she wants to go to college.
   
  
• He/she can take remedial math and English at the community college, get a degree there, and then transfer to a 4-year college. (I teach at the community college, and I can tell you that the number of students who do that is very, very small. I'm glad we offer it, but starting with remedial courses doesn't mean that they're going to get beyond that. Most don't, frankly.)
  

 

Edited March 3, 2012 by GVA

[mudboots]

I only half agree with this. She's been getting incorrect information from the adults in her life up until now and not only from her parents. It's hard to push for more correct information if you don't know that what you've been told is incorrect.

 

Same here - half agreeing. It is the kid's responsibility in the end, but the ability to navigate paperwork is something kids typically learn from their parents. If the mother is completely unmotivated, the daughter may need a real boost to overcome what she's been taught. (I've been dealing with a similarly frustrating experience.)

 

I took a gap year because I wanted to go do volunteer work. The school of my choice was aware that this was what I was doing, and I kept in contact with them during the year off. Doing volunteer work requires money, though. Does she have any people in the community (a church, maybe?) who might sponsor her to go away for a while? A nanny position might be good, too (if it's with a good family). The family where she stays might be able to help her.

[Twigs]

Would enlisting in the military be good option?

[wapiti]

Another vote for a gap year.

 

As a guidance counselor, if this has not been done already, I would take this as a sign to take the bull by the horns from a perspective of education about how the college application process works. I would schedule a session of some sort with the current junior class to educate them on specifics of typical application timelines and testing and so forth, and cc the parents on an outline of that information. Then I would schedule multiple meetings with each senior in the fall about their preparations to check up on them, starting in September. I would think that with a private school, there is a lot more room for requiring this of the students.

 

FWIW, I managed to apply to college with no input from anyone (even though I sure could have used it), in the 80's, before so much info was available by internet. If the students do not understand that this is their responsibility, then they need to be told and made to understand.

 

Eta, I'm not sure what went on before the school hired you, but I would not be surprised if the parents blamed the school, although it sounds like that will not be the case based on the particular parents' attitude.

 

Eta again, I might wonder if there are more family issues than meet the eye here. I wonder why the dd did not fill out the applications herself - that's not her parents' job (all they need to do is the FAFSA, right?). Plus, I find it hard to believe that a 4.0 student really did not know.

Edited March 3, 2012 by wapiti

[Teachin'Mine]

But that is the point at which she, as a soon to be adult soon to be fully in charge of her life and choices, HAD to step in and OWN the process - double check everything for herself, inform herself of her options, and not blindly follow whatever she gets told by other people.

 

[deleting some personal stuff]

 

 

I also know a certain number of kids who got themselves into US colleges from Europe, without ANY help from their parents (many of whom have limited English skills) and who literally went through the same process on their own, in a foreign language, applying to a foreign school system, NO guidance counselors (such a thing does not EXIST in much of Europe), having to seek some help in embassies, etc., overall, a lot more serious process. And they did it. At the same age, 17-18 years old. I am simply not buying that an average teen could not do a lot simpler process on their own, especially in a social and academic climate in which their peers are doing it, they have people to contact, access to internet, etc.

 

 

Some students can do that and other are not really capable of doing that. Some students are very independent and self-starters by nature, and others are more dependent and need outside guidance, motivation and accountability. I think that, in general, homeschooled students tend to be better able to work more independently because many homeschooling parents make that part of their educational goals. You haven't yet been through the process with your own daughters, as I haven't either, but I think we will both be surprised at home much is involved. It's not a simple process. And not only have her parents not been encouraging, they seem to have deliberate put up road blocks to prevent her going to college. Perhaps she does some caretaking for them and they don't want to see that end. :glare: Something's going on.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This thread is scaring the snot out of me. My biggest secret fear is that I am that dumb and my kids will pay the price.

 

My brother was the first on both sides of the family to go to college, and he went to the Air Force Academy. My other brothers went to a teeny little denomination-specific Bible college that takes everybody. My sister went nowhere, and I went into vocational training. College is an unfamiliar world to me.

 

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

[regentrude]

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

 

No, don't know about one source. But as a starting point, I would simply look up the graduation requirements of public schools in your state and the admissions requirements of your local state university. That gives you a rough idea what is expected from your student. It is more than community college, but less than a selective private university.

 

I started out with zero knowledge about what even constitutes high school, how courses are structured, what subjects students take, how standardized testing and admissions work because we are first generation immigrants who did not go to school in this country. I find that a lot of information is readily available on the internet. I learned a lot on this forum, too.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

No, don't know about one source. But as a starting point, I would simply look up the graduation requirements of public schools in your state and the admissions requirements of your local state university. That gives you a rough idea what is expected from your student. It is more than community college, but less than a selective private university.

 

I started out with zero knowledge about what even constitutes high school, how courses are structured, what subjects students take, how standardized testing and admissions work because we are first generation immigrants who did not go to school in this country. I find that a lot of information is readily available on the internet. I learned a lot on this forum, too.

 

I'll do it the hard way, too, then! LOL I think you've just taken away my excuse to be afraid of this.

 

I knew to learn about high school grad and college entrance requirements, and I researched transcript-making before starting ds's ninth grade year. So far we're working with a plan that fits the admission requirements both for Patrick Henry College AND for a local STEM-based university. These types of schools are ds's two possible college tracks, I think, and they require more than the state schools. So the bases should be covered.

 

I think my next step is to learn about the ACT. Ds is almost done with Geometry so maybe he should take it this spring, if I'm not too late. And I haven't begun to research scholarships.

 

(FaithManor, sorry for the thread hijack! I should start a new thread. I can't be the only one who is nervous about this.)

[wapiti]

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

 

I don't really know myself, but here is one list of links that might get you started.

[elegantlion]

This thread is scaring the snot out of me. My biggest secret fear is that I am that dumb and my kids will pay the price.

 

My brother was the first on both sides of the family to go to college, and he went to the Air Force Academy. My other brothers went to a teeny little denomination-specific Bible college that takes everybody. My sister went nowhere, and I went into vocational training. College is an unfamiliar world to me.

 

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

 

I asked a similar question recently. Here's the thread. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327049&highlight=guidance+counselor

[LizzyBee]

Does she have any relatives who she could live with in another city where the job market might be better? That might help her get off to a better start without the pressure to find a boy and get married.

[Susan C.]

This isn't the first time I have heard of this. Why can't she go to the college she applied late at and take general education classes. She did get a 4.0 at high school, but hasn't even tried the harder classes at college. Kids change majors all the time. So if this good college will take her, if they offer enough $$, and her parents will pay the difference (or if the loan amount won't be too much), then I say go!! Maybe in the spring if necessary.

 

Another option is to get an Associates Degree of General Education locally (the crappy commuter college doesn't have an articulation agreement with ANY university?). It usually is cheaper, easier to get in, and they will take later applications (in fact, those waiting too long for the university here have to do this). A lot of kids around here are doing that to save money. Then you transfer to a four year as a junior. I just saw that she had to wait until spring semester. If so, can she take the ACT/SAT in the fall? And if she has to wait until spring for the local college, then hey, why not apply to enter in the spring at other colleges? Then she doesn't need to take a gap year, just a gap semester. Some degrees, or double degrees, need another semester anyway.

[Jane in NC]

I am of that opinion.

 

While I do feel sorry that a bright kid will have to wait another semester / year to reach her goals, Faith's post actually reeks of personal responsibility (i.e. lack of it) to me, not so much of family responsibility.

 

Her parents were not even "supposed" to do anything - *she* was the one who had to know whether her prospective majors are offered at schools she was applying at (what do you mean she is finding out now that her major is not even offered?! that is irresponsible on HER part, not her parents' part), what were the standardized tests she had to take and what the admissions process included, she was the one that had to make different internet arrangements if needed (at a friend, ask school to provide her with computer time if she cannot use one at home, seek help about internet *in advance*), test prep book can be borrowed too, she was the one that had to research majors, her parents' only duty was to finance (and even that we could debate...) and sign whatever they had to sign. Everything else was HER duty and things going wrong now are HER responsibility.

 

I too vote for a gap year if at all possible - and for completely owning her failure this time. She is an adult already, all of these things should be her responsibility, regardless of her parents "values" about finding somebody to marry ASAP.

 

Dearest Ester Maria,

 

We shall have to disagree on this.

 

Children of educated parents often come with a set of "implicit" tools that they take for granted. For example, take testing. Perhaps your children have their own credit/debit cards and can sign up for these tests on their own. Perhaps your children have their own transportation. Not all teens do. Nor have they grown up in an environment that one could call "college prep" in which they know that testing and community service are part of the process of the modern college applicant.

 

Looking at my own life, my parents did not attend college. They thought that the cheapest school was the best school, hence the community college. This would be followed by two more years at a regional university, the second cheapest option. Serendipity led me to follow another route--not a high school counselor, not my innate brilliance. Just dumb luck.

 

I think that kids deserve more than that.

 

ETA: Just realized that I will be taken to task for using the word "deserve". Our children deserve nothing, I will be told. Again I will beg to differ.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Jane in NC

[Dustybug]

The parents here are not setting their child up for success in college.

 

The teen should have been more proactive about asking the questions needed to do this.

 

That said, those in my homeschooling circles aren't always doing that much better. I hear...

 

• I had no idea that we needed more than Algebra II to get into a 4-year school.
   
  
• I thought that foriegn languages didn't have to be taken until college.
   
  
• He/she has never liked writing, so I didn't expect much, and now he/she wants to go to college.
   
  
• He/she can take remedial math and English at the community college, get a degree there, and then transfer to a 4-year college. (I teach at the community college, and I can tell you that the number of students who do that is very, very small. I'm glad we offer it, but starting with remedial courses doesn't mean that they're going to get beyond that. Most don't, frankly.)
  

 

 

Really? I've only been out of college for about 6 years and I never took higher than Algebra II. I attended a 4 year private school and got accepted to others.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I asked a similar question recently. Here's the thread. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327049&highlight=guidance+counselor

 

Thank you, Paula! I missed that the first time 'round.

[Ester Maria]

I asked a similar question recently. Here's the thread. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327049&highlight=guidance+counselor

I remember that thread, it totally creeped me out.

 

The statistical odds would be that I have it wrong, but I still strongly and perhaps foolishly feel that my attitude is okay. But then again, every madman believes they are normal and the world is crazy, right? :tongue_smilie:

Nor have they grown up in an environment that one could call "college prep" in which they know that testing and community service are part of the process of the modern college applicant.

But the child in question attends school. A private one at that (not that that itself is a guarantee of any quality, but still).

She, presumably, has friends, some of whom are applying to college. Presumably there are competent adults to talk to there and seek their advice and experience (individual teachers, counselors, librarians, whoever). Presumably she has overheard a lot of talk about these standardized tests and about what other children are doing, presumably she has come across people investing into their activities and mentioning how it will look good for college applications, and things of the kind. Presumably there are some kind of brochures and some kind of internet access in that school, or can be facilitated, so she can inform herself.

 

And then she applies to a school she "heard" was good (so, no background check AT ALL, of any kind) and she is surprised upon learning that her major is not offered.

 

How is that anything other than personal irresponsibility? :confused:

This is not a small child who cannot make that decision and for whom parents or other caring adults must research and choose.

This is a person who is to be treated more like an adult than like a child, age-wise (presumably) and where she currently stands in life (about to finish high school).

 

I totally get what you mean by not all children coming from homes with equal "cultural capital", but we can either treat people as though they are capable of overcoming some accidents of birth and upbringing with enough determination (especially in the age of the internet, public libraries, easy information, in a culture where so many people want to help you and where there are so many services to inform yourself - a few phone calls away, a few clicks away), or as though they are incapable of doing so in spite of all the opportunities they have, and which have been, historically, beyond many generations' wildest dreams. Even the underprivileged (economically, home culture wise, etc.) kids of today are not equally underprivileged as the kids of yesterday, in modern nations such as the US and with access to all these people, services, sources of information. Just at what point do we stop hand-holding almost adults and start making them own their choices? This girl chose not to inform herself. This almost adult, in her final year of school, living in a school culture and with opportunities to inform herself, chose not to do so.

 

If I gather things correctly, this is not so much a case of a family who is nuts and who physically prevents her from doing something or flat out refused to finance her in the slightest. This is not a child living an isolated lifestyle as some subcultures, without access to other people and the internet. This is a child in less than ideal circumstances, sure, but frankly, it does not sound that bad. I have known people disowned and disinherited by their families - THAT is a "lack of family support". I have known people who were flat out told that they would not be financially supported in any way past high school - THAT is a "lack of money support". I have known people, older generation though, whose parents did not allow them to finish school and physically forced a different lifestyle on them (early work, etc.) - THAT is a "lack of opportunities for schooling". Just what are we talking about? This is a totally mild case. Yeah, things were - are - not ideal for her. But few are kids for whom they are. And there is more and more help *overall* to help children and reach out to them. This child simply did not use the opportunities that were there. It would have been nice had she had more support and active guidance in it, but at the end of the day, I think it is a 90% her own failure.

 

I do not deny that there definitely is such a thing as luck and definitely not everyone has an equal starting position at home, but I have seen "miracles" happen way too often to not believe that those who want (and are capable) will in most cases ultimately find a way (even if a hard way, even if a delayed way, even if a more personally costly way... but they will find a way), while those who do not want, will in most cases ultimately find an excuse. I know dropouts from academic families, because no amount of investing into a child and guiding them will "pay off" if the child simply does not have that something inside of them, that independent drive to succeed... and likewise, I have seen kids from less than best educated and less than most privileged families ending up enrolled at foreign universities, and on scholarships, due to their own determination alone, and their parents, even if they wanted, would not have been able to help them through the process.

 

(I would not have nitpicked the whole "deserve" thing. :) Although you are right, we would probably ultimately disagree about that one too. :()

[lllll]

..

[Pegasus]

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

 

Google search for "college prep checklist" and you'll get several versions. HSLDA even has one. Here's an example broken out by high school year:

 

http://www.collegeprep101.com/college_planning_checklist.htm

 

Pegasus

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Google search for "college prep checklist" and you'll get several versions. HSLDA even has one. Here's an example broken out by high school year:

 

http://www.collegeprep101.com/college_planning_checklist.htm

 

Pegasus

 

Thank you!

[Jane in NC]

Really? I've only been out of college for about 6 years and I never took higher than Algebra II. I attended a 4 year private school and got accepted to others.

 

Here in NC, an applicant to the UNC system must have four years of high school Math. This includes Algebra I & II, Geometry and at least one course beyond Algebra II (i.e. Precalc, Statistics, etc.)

 

This is a rising trend in other state systems as well.

[LuvingLife]

A gap year is definitely something for her to consider, it is something that I am considering as well, but I am blessed with parents who want the best for me and are willing to help provide their love and support. Financially, it is up to me, so I may need to take a year off and work while taking classes at the local CC, or if I could score high on the ACT then maybe get a good scholarship to the local University.

 

She could also enter in the Spring term, it doesn't have to be the fall term, I know many people who do this and have gone on to succeed.

 

:grouphug: and prayers to you for guidance, and for your student, her sanity.;)

[elegantlion]

I remember that thread, it totally creeped me out.

 

The statistical odds would be that I have it wrong, but I still strongly and perhaps foolishly feel that my attitude is okay. But then again, every madman believes they are normal and the world is crazy, right? :tongue_smilie:

 

I would imagine the conversation in your house turns to education and academics more naturally than other households. Many of us are not familiar with the process because we never went through it, or we realize it has changed since we attended school.

 

It seems these parents were operating under a outdated paradigm, that they could still do all the prep work now for fall. Maybe they had assured their dd that would be the case.

 

I do think there should be more awareness on the student's part, especially today when everything is a website away. I was that girl, however, except not the 4.0, just the girl whose parents were ignorant of the process and not willing to give any help. My sister did all of her own footwork for college and has been in academia since 1984. I needed help, guidance counselor was a joke, parents did not go to college. I could have used some direction, even if I could do all the footwork myself. I made some poor long term choices because no one was guiding me. If I had graduated when the Internet was available, I would have chosen a different path.

 

So I will be mentoring my son on the process. I will slip him websites for colleges to check out, I will help him keep track of testing dates, I will help him think through the long term outlet of the decisions he is making. Will I coddle and beg? No. Will I advise? Yes. I see that as part of the package that I signed on for by homeschooling high school. Why? Because I want him to have better options in life that I did or currently do have.

 

The fact that your dd 14 planned her own study abroad shows me that you've instilled in her some knowledge, wisdom, and desire to plan these outings. My ds14 is a good kind child, smart in the things he is interested in, but I still had to remind him to brush his teeth this morning.

 

Many of us were not fortunate enough to walk the path we should have in life. Many of us are forging that path with your children, so they don't miss it entirely.

 

All said with great respect to you, Ester Maria. I've been sick for a week and my words may be a tad abrupt.

[Sahamamama]

I am of that opinion.

 

While I do feel sorry that a bright kid will have to wait another semester / year to reach her goals, Faith's post actually reeks of personal responsibility (i.e. lack of it) to me, not so much of family responsibility.

 

Her parents were not even "supposed" to do anything - *she* was the one who had to know whether her prospective majors are offered at schools she was applying at (what do you mean she is finding out now that her major is not even offered?! that is irresponsible on HER part, not her parents' part), what were the standardized tests she had to take and what the admissions process included, she was the one that had to make different internet arrangements if needed (at a friend, ask school to provide her with computer time if she cannot use one at home, seek help about internet *in advance*), test prep book can be borrowed too, she was the one that had to research majors, her parents' only duty was to finance (and even that we could debate...) and sign whatever they had to sign. Everything else was HER duty and things going wrong now are HER responsibility.

 

I too vote for a gap year if at all possible - and for completely owning her failure this time. She is an adult already, all of these things should be her responsibility, regardless of her parents "values" about finding somebody to marry ASAP.

 

:iagree:When I applied to colleges, I did all the steps of the process. I researched all the schools, was certain about what majors were offered, found out about each school's credit transfer policies, and so on. I signed up for the PSAT and SAT, studied on my own time, and was ready to go on the test dates. I filled out the college applications, wrote the essays, got the necessary personal references/recommendations, sent my test scores, and so on. I filled out the loan applications, the scholarship applications, and the work-study applications. I think my parents may have signed a form. :confused:

 

I don't understand why this is all her parents' fault. I'm not seeing it. When is it time for her to grow up and take at least some responsibility for her own life? :confused:

But the child in question attends school. A private one at that (not that that itself is a guarantee of any quality, but still).

She, presumably, has friends, some of whom are applying to college.

 

Especially the above. Aren't teens supposed to be more influenced by their peers than their family?

 

Although most homeschoolers dismiss the frequently tossed about "socialization" argument, this is one area where I think there is some merit. There is enormous value in having peers somewhat older that you, from whom you can model yourself (both positive and negative modelling). Or at least there can be, if you are paying attention. When I was in high school, I learned substantially more about the college entrance process from peers than from adults, especially from peers a year or two older than me who were going through the process themselves.

 

Now, certainly homeschooled students can also have these kinds of relationships, but we need to go out of our way more to foster them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But the child in question attends school. A private one at that (not that that itself is a guarantee of any quality, but still).

 

I think that your idea of what this private school is like and the reality is quite different. From Faith's previous posts on this subject, the main qualification for this school being private is, I believe, it's Christian focus. Academics has not been the main focus or in some cases, even enough of a focus. There is no reason why this should be true for a Christian school but unfortunately I've seen schools like this before.

[Ester Maria]

I've been sick for a week

Aww, I hope you feel better soon! :grouphug:

[Heather in VA]

:iagree:When I applied to colleges, I did all the steps of the process. I researched all the schools, was certain about what majors were offered, found out about each school's credit transfer policies, and so on. I signed up for the PSAT and SAT, studied on my own time, and was ready to go on the test dates. I filled out the college applications, wrote the essays, got the necessary personal references/recommendations, sent my test scores, and so on. I filled out the loan applications, the scholarship applications, and the work-study applications. I think my parents may have signed a form. :confused:

 

I don't understand why this is all her parents' fault. I'm not seeing it. When is it time for her to grow up and take at least some responsibility for her own life? :confused:

 

That's very nice but having watched my daughter's friends who attend school go through this process this year it just isn't a completely autonomous process. You can't just 'sign up for the SATs'. It requires money and signatures. You can't just send in applications - again it requires money and parental approval. Financial aid package applications require financial information from the parents that kids just don't have. It sounds like these parents didn't think any of these things needed to be done in the timeline we know is needed - heck it sounds like they don't even think you really need the SATs etc. So if they are tight on money it seems likely they wouldn't be forking it over for something they didn't think was necessary. And if she needed money from the school to pay for the SATs or other steps, again it's parental applications.

 

So while I agree it sounds like the student could have done a lot more, she can't have complete control over the process and it sounds like she was meeting significant resistance from her parents.

 

Heather

Is there ONE source for information? Or at least one source for a checklist of things I have to learn and prepare for?

 

If there's a moral to this story, it is that you shouldn't rely on any ONE source. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify".

[Ester Maria]

That's very nice but having watched my daughter's friends who attend school go through this process this year it just isn't a completely autonomous process. You can't just 'sign up for the SATs'. It requires money and signatures. You can't just send in applications - again it requires money and parental approval. Financial aid package applications require financial information from the parents that kids just don't have.

But of course there are some signatures involved as long as they are minors! :)

 

In my mind, however, there is a huge difference between expecting a parent to come to a child with these things, and expecting a child to come to a parent with *concrete steps to do* ("I need you to sign this, this, and this form for me; I also need you to provide X and Y financial information to me in writing and get this and that confirmation from this and that office", etc.).

 

Perhaps it is a parenting difference, but we have always striven to raise our children - past certain age and with gradual maturing, of course - in the latter paradigm.

When the child is small, then parents are the ones who offer and organize things - parents research and choose elementary schools, offer extracurricular activities, "make" children study piano or attend this or that particular track at school, what have you. But somewhere, at some ages - and it begins before high school, IMO - a healthy relationship between a parent and a child has to start reversing. Ultimately, children have to become the ones who require, research and ask, and parents the ones who consider, accept or decline, and support financially - or discuss alternative options of financing - but with the *child* being the proactive one and taking care of the steps that need to be met, not the *parent*.

 

My DD's study abroad was mentioned upthread, but I am honestly not sure I would have allowed her to go had she not been so proactive about it. I am not sure how I would feel about a teenager, on the younger end at that, alone in a foreign country, had *she* not proven able to research her opportunities, handle the correspondence with her prospective school in the foreign language in which she wanted to study, had *she* not been the one to enquire about the formal aspects of credit transfer / grade conversion / educational equivalence matters, and so forth.

Of course, we as parents had a role in it. We took over the responsibility for the living arrangements. We signed the necessary forms which she could not sign as a minor. We provided the $$ (€€ :tongue_smilie:) for some things and sat her down for further money arrangements, because she would become directly responsible for handling larger amounts of money while away, for all sorts of expenses that would normally be spontaneously covered by us, but that she will have to take over and plan into her budget. We introduced her to people she can contact in various cases of emergency, to give her some sort of a safety net to fall back to, should something - anything - go wrong and should she need urgent help of any type.

 

So, it is not like we have thrown her into the lion's den or have been unhelpful... but the impetus had to come from her, she had to inform us what we were to do and she had to be on top of the whole process, otherwise we would have concluded, as parents, that she was not mature enough for that particular type of experience at that age. If it had been so overwhelming for her (and it has been more stressful than we had expected), we would have probably decided she was not to go. After all, one does not have to study abroad in high school. One can also study abroad in college, or do a post-doc fellowship abroad... all in its season, and there is no one "right" season... but I would say that the right season for each particular person is a season at which they can handle, mentally, emotionally, organizationally (with some stress, of course, but ultimately can handle), the steps needed to get there.

Likewise, why would one have to start college right after high school? Many children really need another year or two to mature, and there are excellent, productive ways of investing that time into something.

 

We have that attitude largely about everything. We are willing to help, invest, listen, but our children have to come to us, not the other way round - and not only come with generalties, but with *concrete ideas*, thought out plans, spelling out to us what to do to help them.

Want to go to a camp? No problem at all, but you come to us, provide us with the details, and then we will talk and see how to go about it.

Want to go skiing with friends via some organization? Same thing.

Want to do a summer language school? Same thing.

Want to switch to a different schooling arrangement, do a year abroad, switch to a different system? Same thing - we will discuss what is important to us as parents, but the chances are we will find a common ground, but you must have *concrete suggestions*, thought out plans, plan Bs, and willingness to negotiate specifics... which means you have already invested your time and interest to research it.

Want to study at the university? Same thing as any of the above.

 

That is at least how I tend to see it...

Edited March 3, 2012 by Ester Maria

[Dana]

Google search for "college prep checklist" and you'll get several versions. HSLDA even has one. Here's an example broken out by high school year:

 

http://www.collegeprep101.com/college_planning_checklist.htm

 

Pegasus

 

 

I didn't check out the rest of the site or their checklists, but the note at the bottom that's not a separate ad, "Students and parents are encouraged to consider attending University of Phoenix (uop) for higher education. You can earn "Your degree. On your terms"."

 

Ick... and really really really bad advice.

In my mind, that makes everything else suspect.

[elegantlion]

B

We have that attitude largely about everything. We are willing to help, invest, listen, but our children have to come to us, not the other way round - and not only come with generalties, but with *concrete ideas*, thought out plans, spelling out to us what to do to help them.

Want to go to a camp? No problem at all, but you come to us, provide us with the details, and then we will talk and see how to go about it.

Want to go skiing with friends via some organization? Same thing.

Want to do a summer language school? Same thing.

Want to switch to a different schooling arrangement, do a year abroad, switch to a different system? Same thing - we will discuss what is important to us as parents, but the chances are we will find a common ground, but you must have *concrete suggestions*, thought out plans, plan Bs, and willingness to negotiate specifics... which means you have already invested your time and interest to research it.

Want to study at the university? Same thing as any of the above.

 

That is at least how I tend to see it...

 

That, I believe, is part of the difference, the willingness to help. I remember as a child going to my parents with ideas of things to do, I got turned down. I played trombone instead of saxophone (like I really wanted) because my dad refused to pay for a saxophone, a trombone was cheaper. I wanted to try out to be a cheerleader, camp was 200.00, I knew I'd have a huge obstacle should I make the team. I wanted to be an exchange student. By that time I had kind of given up, it was going to cost nearly 3,000. I had no outlet to earn the money and they refused to consider letting me go anyway. When you start getting rejected at age 11, you either start to act like things don't matter or you keep asking in hope that some day they'll be willing. Then you get disappointed again. My parents are kind, wonderful people, we weren't that broke. They were just stingy. I do have to say they've changed, they are kind and generous to us now.

 

My ds has big goals, bigger than our budget. I've turned him down, but I always remind him that if we had the money, we would allow it. It shook through me the other day I mentioned to dh how much ds wants to travel to Japan as a college student. Dh shook his head and said, no, you can go when you're an adult. Dh has issues about that type of travel, silly imo, but they are his views. We dropped it, but I will remind dh that once ds goes to college he will be 19 his freshman year, he'll be an adult by then.

 

Not every parent is as willing and able.