ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 So, I understand there may not really be an answer to this question. :tongue_smilie: We have struggled through WWE 1 this year. DD is just NOT a details person. She has not engaged in many of the stories, struggles with comprehending the details, and I am honestly beginning to wonder if it is worth it. We have similar comprehension issues with SOTW (I don't think it is comprehension in general, because she can give decent narrations of SOTW but misses ALL the details the questions ask for). I think it is silly to have tears over this, and I am just trying to reevaluate the rest of the year. She misses a lot of the questions. Should we shelve it or keep plugging on? This last week (week 26 I believe) was better. She only missed 1-2 of the questions, but it is not uncommon for her to miss half or more. I know the stress for her over this is mostly my fault. I will be honest here, this frustrates me. I know I need to not let that show through, but it does. I am VERY aware I need to work on this. So, if you have a first grader working through WWE 1, is missing many of the details a common occurence or is something going on here? Since this is obviously an area she needs improvement in, do we continue wading through? (Of course I know I need to :chillpill: and help her calm down about it). Or maybe is WWE just not a good fit? I would have thought by week 26 I would have seen improvement. . . and maybe I have? It is hard to know . . . Side note: I see a significant difference if I "summarize" every few sentences or section. She seems to grasp that more easily. But, not sure if that is really "helping" for the long run? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 So, I understand there may not really be an answer to this question. :tongue_smilie: We have struggled through WWE 1 this year. DD is just NOT a details person. She has not engaged in many of the stories, struggles with comprehending the details, and I am honestly beginning to wonder if it is worth it. We have similar comprehension issues with SOTW (I don't think it is comprehension in general, because she can give decent narrations of SOTW but misses ALL the details the questions ask for). I think it is silly to have tears over this, and I am just trying to reevaluate the rest of the year. She misses a lot of the questions. Should we shelve it or keep plugging on? This last week (week 26 I believe) was better. She only missed 1-2 of the questions, but it is not uncommon for her to miss half or more. :bigear: This is exactly the issue I'm having with my ds. Although he is 9. He struggles with the SOTW questions, and Wordly Wise and Reading Comprehension questions. I just bought the WWE text and gave him the year 1 eval. I'm confident he can do the copywork/grammar throughout all the years (dictation may be something new) but he struggled with the questions in year 1. I have to go back and show him and reread the section where the answer can be found, sometimes a couple times. With any thing that has questions of that nature. He actually does a good job with narrations. But it's those specific questions that trip him up every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 When I did WWE 1 with Rebecca, it was work. We definitely had our struggles. She is vastly improved now. Sylvia is moving along more easily, but she still has her moments when she can't remember ONE THING about the story we just read. :svengo: I'd say, don't give up yet, just keep plugging away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I have seen a number of people recommend not starting WWE before a child is at least 7 years old. Maybe she just isn't quite ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladydusk Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Side note: I see a significant difference if I "summarize" every few sentences or section. She seems to grasp that more easily. But, not sure if that is really "helping" for the long run?Thanks! Can you have *her* tell back (Charlotte Mason narration ... tell me everything you remember from that paragraph and slowly expand the readings before narrations) every few sentences or sections? Every paragraph? I think you summarizing is probably not helping in the long run. I've found that it helps when we interact with other read alouds, too. We have a "dinner time" read aloud where my husband and I talk about the book and model how grownups interact with books (I was bawling through our chapter from Little Britches tonight). The details *are* hard to keep track of. My son just did the Mary Poppins week in WWE1 where you have to remember the medicine flavors and the things that were in her bag. He had such a hard time with the items in her bag. I had forgotten how hard that one was. When he did the medicine one, I stopped him before I read. I asked, "Do you have your listening ears on?" and reminded him to focus and attend. He did it with no problems. It is part of training the mind and ears to attend and not wander during the readings. It is a difficult and important skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 When I did WWE 1 with Rebecca, it was work. We definitely had our struggles. She is vastly improved now. Sylvia is moving along more easily, but she still has her moments when she can't remember ONE THING about the story we just read. :svengo: I'd say, don't give up yet, just keep plugging away. Thanks. I think it is helpful and encouraging just to know someone else has also struggled with this. ;) I am ok with it being difficult, I am ok with pushing through. I just want to know it has a purpose, y/k? If struggling through it will eventually improve this skill for her, we will plug along. As to whether she is "ready for it, well, can I just be honest for a minute, there are day I struggle with answering those questions. :tongue_smilie: Some of them are seriously challenging and somewhat obscure details. Though others are glaringly obvious that she misses when I just.read.it. :glare: She "shuts down" easily, and that plays a part in this as well. Once she starts to miss the questions, she stresses out and checks out. We are working on strategies of overcoming this, but it is slow work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentecostalMom Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I don't know if it helps, but my dd is doing well with WWE. However, we also use Sonlight which is a lot of narration and answering questions about what we read. We have been doing narration of some sort for three years with SL. Dd will be six this month and we "officially" started K a year early compared to where she would have been at ps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Can you have *her* tell back (Charlotte Mason narration ... tell me everything you remember from that paragraph and slowly expand the readings before narrations) every few sentences or sections? Every paragraph? I think you summarizing is probably not helping in the long run. This is a good idea, we might need to try this. Thanks! The strange thing is, sometimes in her narrations, she is SO detailed about some things in the story, and will want to tell me EVERY detail of whatever part she latched onto, and yet miss so much of others. The few times I have read it twice (a few times we have started questions only to get to number 3+ without getting a single one correct, I will read it again). This helps and she usually remembers much more the second time through. Is this counterproductive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think kids struggle with WWE more who are visual learners rather than auditory learners. I learned a method of helping kids with listening comprehension which is to have them make a movie in their minds. Have them look up at a blank wall, and with every sentence that you read to them, have them imagine the action as if they are watching a movie. Then at the end, they can replay the movie in their minds to recall the details. This takes practice, but it is a very helpful technique. It can be useful for life to get into the habit to improve memory. I think there is a book(s) which describe this method, but I don't know the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladydusk Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The few times I have read it twice (a few times we have started questions only to get to number 3+ without getting a single one correct, I will read it again). This helps and she usually remembers much more the second time through. Is this counterproductive? I think the TM tells you to reread whenever the student can't answer, yes? I wouldn't wait until the third question. Re-read the section (sentence or paragraph, only) for each question that is missed. That way, if she can't do the first question, gets the section re-read, it helps her focus for question #2 and might just be enough to jog her memory and focus for the next question. Plus, it doesn't load up three "failures" in a row ... that would be discouraging, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think latching onto some details and not others is typical for her age. Those details may be more interesting than the basic narration of the story, after all. I personally think modeling the process for her is a good idea. She may need examples of the process in order to see exactly what you are expecting of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think kids struggle with WWE more who are visual learners rather than auditory learners. I learned a method of helping kids with listening comprehension which is to have them make a movie in their minds. Have them look up at a blank wall, and with every sentence that you read to them, have them imagine the action as if they are watching a movie. Then at the end, they can replay the movie in their minds to recall the details. This takes practice, but it is a very helpful technique. It can be useful for life to get into the habit to improve memory. I think there is a book(s) which describe this method, but I don't know the title. Yes, she is definitely a visual learner, and I think WTM learning leans towards a lot of auditory learning, which is a challenge for her. We do use this technique, especially for history and have seen some improvement there, but mostly when it is very narrative. When the details start pouring in, apparently they are harder to visualize. :tongue_smilie: I think the TM tells you to reread whenever the student can't answer, yes? I wouldn't wait until the third question. Re-read the section (sentence or paragraph, only) for each question that is missed. That way, if she can't do the first question, gets the section re-read, it helps her focus for question #2 and might just be enough to jog her memory and focus for the next question. Plus, it doesn't load up three "failures" in a row ... that would be discouraging, I think. I do reread the sentence/sentences whenever she can't answer, but after 3 or more of needing me to go back, I assume at this point she didn't get much out of it so a few times I have just reread the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 I personally think modeling the process for her is a good idea. She may need examples of the process in order to see exactly what you are expecting of her. The process is not at all foreign to her. We are on week 26 :tongue_smilie: We also use questions/narrations across the curricula, so she definitely knows "how" to do it and what it should look like, she just can't remember the details of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladydusk Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I do reread the sentence/sentences whenever she can't answer, but after 3 or more of needing me to go back, I assume at this point she didn't get much out of it so a few times I have just reread the whole thing. OK, sorry I misunderstood. I don't know the battles you're fighting with a visual learner. That making a movie idea sounds fascinating. Hope I've been able to help some anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hope I've been able to help some anyway :) definitely! Thanks! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think latching onto some details and not others is typical for her age. Those details may be more interesting than the basic narration of the story, after all. I personally think modeling the process for her is a good idea. She may need examples of the process in order to see exactly what you are expecting of her. I agree. One things that helped at that age was asking. who-----who is the selection read about? where -----where are they what -----most important things that happened conclusion -----wrap up of what happened and what is going to happen next. When they do the above I ask them to put it in a sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoGal Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ds had a hard time with WWE when we started as well. What really helped is slowing down and going through the passage with him a few times focusing on visualizing it. So I would read a sentence or two and ask him what kind of picture he could make in his mind for that sentence. Then move on to the next sentence and discuss what picture he had for that. We would go through the passage like this and then ask the questions. I think we did this for 3 or 4 passages or so. After that, he started automatically picturing the story. It really helped him. Even the smallest details are pretty easy to remember if you have a strong picture in your mind to go with it. (Though I have to admit that I skipped the one where the guy was giving everything made-up names... :tongue_smilie:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've also watched a Q&A utube video where SWB said to let the visual learner read the passage. By WWE3, the child reads her own passage (if I'm not mistaken after having received and thumbed through it today). I'm thinking through this too. Some days my dd gets no details right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've also watched a Q&A utube video where SWB said to let the visual learner read the passage. By WWE3, the child reads her own passage (if I'm not mistaken after having received and thumbed through it today). I'm thinking through this too. Some days my dd gets no details right... I have thought about this, but then I wondered if that would be helping, or just avoiding the issue? Not sure . . . but with only 10 weeks left of WWE 1, I seriously have my doubts about her ability to do WWE 2. So strange, because she really is excelling at everything else. Struggling some is not a bad thing, but I just wonder how much is too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I have thought about this, but then I wondered if that would be helping, or just avoiding the issue? Not sure . . . but with only 10 weeks left of WWE 1, I seriously have my doubts about her ability to do WWE 2. So strange, because she really is excelling at everything else. Struggling some is not a bad thing, but I just wonder how much is too much. Just to get your hopes up... We've found WWE2 much easier than WWE1. :tongue_smilie: There aren't as many passages with "old language" that he doesn't understand. The details don't seem to be as hard. It's just all around easier for him. In WWE1, we had to reread the passage sometimes twice in order to answer the questions. I can't think of a passage in WWE2 that I've had to reread in its entirety (I've had to occasionally reread a few sentences where the answer is). To get through WWE1, I would suggest breaking it up a bit. Read the first paragraph, then ask the questions about that paragraph only. Then move on to the next paragraph and do the same. On the really hard ones, I did let DS1 read the passage himself. That is much easier for him, but I also wanted to develop his listening skills. I think I've been successful in that. I probably let him read 2 or 3 passages in WWE1 on his own. I was going to say that we don't usually have the question issue in SOTW, but then I realized that I've been letting him read SOTW himself for quite a while now (since we were maybe 2/3 through SOTW1), so that's why he does so well on the SOTW questions. :lol: I still read WWE passages to him. We're halfway through WWE2 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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