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Singapore 2a do I need Miquon, or something else?


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Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post here :001_smile: I have been enjoying (too much) digging through this forum and it has been really helpful.

 

So, my question is I keep seeing people say that they are using Miquon to supplement SM- would this be helpful to us? We are doing singapore 2a this year with my first grader. He did 1a at the end of last year and 1b last semester. He had been doing great- begging to do more than one lesson a day in 1b, but now it takes him 1.5 hours to do a lesson. He really "gets" the concepts easily, but he doesn't have his facts memorized, so now that he is doing subtraction with renaming (borrowing), it takes him sooo long to get a problem because he is calculating each fact in his head. SM seems to fit him well as far as understanding goes, but I am thinking 1.5 hours of math is way too much for a first grader to have to do for 1 lesson! What exactly is helpful about using Miquon with SM? Is it to reinforce concepts? If so, I'm not sure that's what we need...

 

I keep going back and forth between thinking I am pushing him too hard and we should slow down, to wondering if he is just not being diligent in his work (something we see in other areas as well). He is our "thinker" and tends to get distracted easily. I frequently catch him staring off into space and when I ask him if he is working he will respond with something like "Look mommy, isn't it neat that this number is 479 and that number is 974?" :bigear: Putting time limits seem to only make him make mistakes. Also, he is still writing his numbers backwards and that gets worse if there is a time limit.

 

What should I do- go back, go ahead and go forward, switch to something else, beat my head against a wall :001_huh:?

 

Ashley

 

mom to Caleb 7, Brooke 5, Lily 3, Elliott 1

SWR (about to switch to LOE!), FLL, Geography Songs, CC history memory, Singapore 2a, Horizons K, GA Henty books, Bible

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I think if you're worrying about pushing him, you're probably not! :) Instead you might simply think about taking an approach where you spend only so much time per day on math, instead of hitting one lesson per session no matter how long it takes. BUT if your child is happy to do the math for 90 minutes or so, I say let him.

 

I think problem-solving enrichment is a good thing. Though I bought Miquon materials in the past we didn't use them, so I can't weigh in. I could dig them out and give an opinion, but it wouldn't be based on actual experience. We used other sources for math enrichment.

 

Are you doing the workbook, Intensive Practice book, etc.? How do you use the TG / HIG-- do you currently start with the concrete examples first, or just go through the textbook? I hope someone will correct me if this is a ridiculous suggestion, but your son might get the same sort (or at least quality) of concrete foundation-building from doing the soup-to-nuts approach of SM, starting with the concrete examples in the HIG/TG then going to the pictorial then the abstract.

 

I think that if your intuition is telling you that what you need right now is extra skills practice, I'd probably go for that first, as long as it's not too boring for him. It will help to increase his fluency, and that will leave more time for the fun side of math. In terms of what to use, I think IXL would work fine, ALEKS would probably work fine too, and though I haven't used them yet, I've noticed that Dreambox and xtramath.org are highly regarded by many here. You might also be able to find some fun free resources by hunting around, like this math maze generator.

Edited by Iucounu
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I haven't been using the HIG at all actually. I did not have one for 1a or 1b, and since he always seemed to "get" a concept before I even finished explaining it to him, and he was doing the workbook without any problems, I never thought we needed to do anything else... We just started the IP book. I hadn't been using it either because it seemed like each lesson took him so long I didn't want to make him do any more. But, I should've been doing the IP all along and not going through lessons so fast. But, again, he really seems to "get" it, and hates busy work, so I've just always hesitated to give him extra practice for something that he "gets." I think this is a problem with all of my teaching though, cause I detested busy work as a kid (and still do), but I forget that they really need more practice to become proficient... even if they do understand it...

 

Should I be using the HIG? Right now we just go through the lesson in the textbook. I explain things to him using the textbook and then we work through some examples to make sure he understands, then he does his workbook lesson. So, usually there are a few workbook lessons for every textbook lesson, so I only do a textbook lesson every other day or so, and he does the workbook lessons on his own (with me prodding him to pay attention :)). Am I doing it wrong?

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I don't think you're doing it wrong, since there's no one way to do it and every kid is different. I've seen all sorts of approaches reported to using SM in the last year or so. We hardly ever used the HIG ourselves, none of the workbook, and little of the Intensive Practice challenge materials. I only suggested the HIG because it contains the concrete part of the SM approach, which probably maps best to what you'd get out of Miquon, although I think that the two are still bound to be very different in some ways.

 

You might want to take a gander at the HIG as you go through the lessons just to see if there's some enrichment in there that you could use to stimulate interest and keep it fun, while still letting him practice some math facts in the context of a problem. I remember, for example, one day when we were still using the HIG off and on, we encountered an enrichment exercise just like this one. Such fun bits of enrichment are sprinkled through the text, and in playing around with this example concept DS unavoidably practiced some basic addition skills.

 

I'd also look into using the Intensive Practice books more, and the usual other suspects for problem-solving practice: Ed Zaccaro Challenge Math, Life of Fred, etc. These types of resources can actually be pretty good for practice because they're more interesting than rote drills. In the course of, say, a Life of Fred problem where a student winds up figuring out (in stages) how many seconds are in a year, he's bound to practice lots of individual multiplication facts.

Edited by Iucounu
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If you feel your child has a good understanding of the math concepts, I think going into 2A is a good time to start working on math facts. The mental math concepts and multiplication introduction will come easier if the fact recall is better. Maybe you should even take a break from Singapore and play games and break apart the numbers. Although I like Miquon for discovery play, I wouldn't get it strictly for fact memorization.

 

I did and do the following with my kids:

* Build number bonds: Draw the circles and fill in the blanks

* All the Ways drawing: Using c-rods or graphing paper, draw all the ways you can build [NUMBER]. For example, show me all the ways you can build eight: 0+8, 1+7, 2+6, 2+2+2+2 and so on. Maria from Math Mammoth advocates doing this in numerical order, but when we do it for fun, I let my kids go in any order.

* Play card games: Go To The Dump, Addition War

* My kids and I play a form of War to improve recall speed: We each put down a card and whoever can say the sum fastest wins the round. I answer slow at first to prevent frustration but as my kids' speed has improved, I've started answering faster.

* Chants: I know this is old-fashioned, but this is how my kids got the facts memorized. We chanted: "2+1=3, 2+2=4, 2+3=5..." etc. I add in physical movement like stretching, running in place, clapping games, jumping jacks. Say it slow, say it fast, say it in different voices. I try to make it silly so it's not boring and thus far, it's worked. My son will still sometimes chant to himself, "7x8=56."

 

If you're reluctant to put Singapore on hold, set aside 5-15 minutes of playtime every day for facts. Make the remaining math time for the Singapore worksheet and when the time is up, stop. The next day, pick up where you left off. There's no reason you must do a whole worksheet every day. My kids will sometimes fly through several pages, other times, 1 page is a stretch.

 

Do a variety of activities and try different approaches. There is no one solution for every child.

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Practice, whether it is single digit or multi digit addition will help cement the facts. When we learned mulidigit addition with regrouping last year we did three problems a day for about a month. He could take his time, but still be done in less than 30 minutes. As he got faster we added more problems. When we atarted 2a this past fall, he did a leason in 30 minutes.

 

We did other things for fact memorization:

 

Flash cards

Yahtzee

Sum swamp

Monopoly

And computer games with math.

 

I tried drill sheets and he hated them. Play is a much better way to cement those facts. Don't get another workbook, take a few problems a day. Whatever he can do in 30 minutes. Then play a game.

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I don't know anything about Miquon but I don't think you need to buy a whole new curriculum to practice math facts. My Dd sounds similar to your Ds. She picks up new concepts very quickly, multiplication, division, etc. But she does not yet have all her subtraction facts memorized. The past few weeks we have been working on it with online games, timed drills with a small prize when she halves her time, and presenting different ways to break apart the problem. For ex in the Singapore HIG, it outlines different ways to solve double digit subtraction. By breaking the number apart and subtracting the ones, then adding back the 10s. Or subtract from 10 and then add back the ones, etc. I'm not sure that each strategy is included in the textbook, so for me the HIG is worth the cost.

I think memorizing can be difficult for those kids who learn very quick. After a few weeks my Dd told me she was really just burnt out on it all. So now we are taking a break. Letting what we've worked on stew in her brain and see if it clicks. Sometimes I think they just need time. I plan to go back to introducing new concepts, which she finds fun, and then if she still is struggling with instant recall of facts in 3 or 4 months, we will revisit memorization.

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Miquon is great but not for memorizing facts. It is very conceptual/discovery method...moreso than Singapore. For math facts I made my own worksheets that add 2 new facts at each level...I time him for 1 minute which my kids like because they can see their progress. We try to do one twice a week. We are also doing flashcards made from index cards...he likes that too.

 

DS is in 1st grade and working on 2B but he has the required facts down decently and is really good at mental math. It will go so much faster once they are fluent in the facts so I try to work on it gradually so it doesn't become a bottleneck but I let him do his mental tricks too...they'll help him in the long run. As a result, 2A only took him 7 weeks working 30 minutes 4x a week. Even my third grader only works on math 30min a day right now. My fifth grader requires almost an hour and a half though. He's inefficent :glare:

Brownie

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I think there is a subtle, but important, difference between memorizing "math facts" and internalizing them to the point of automaticity though practicing the re-grouping strategies.

 

There are many ways to practice the re-grouping strategies in Singapore. They range from games and activities to old fashioned seat-work.

 

An hour-and-a-half of seat-work is well beyond the reasonable expectations of most First-grade boys. I'd hate to squelch a good work-ethic, but you say he "dawdles" (typical of the age) so I'm thinking this is too much.

 

It sounds to me like you are missing other activity based means of getting practice. Consider adding games and the like to make "math" a bit more fun (and efficient).

 

Also, do you have your son verbally explain his strategies or is it all seat-work. It it's the latter, I would urge you to spend at least part of your math time in "oral mode." We do the Textbook this way. Answers are "explained" by the child almost every time. If there are re-grouping strategies employed they need to be communicated clearly, the "right answer" is not enough.

 

When the child has practiced re-grouping enough the answers become automatic. This puts the horse in front of the cart. Simply memorizing answers without the ability to manipulate numbers is a skill that is not "scaleable." the purpose of much of Singapore-style math is to build "scalable" skills, so ever more complex numbers and problems can be manipulated mentally.

 

So one needs to put in the "grunt work" now, at the foundational level, if you want to build the best base.

 

You are (or he is) putting in an extraordinary amount of time into this. I would look at ways of making the learning more efficient, breaking it up into a more diversified math mix including enrichment with "mind bending" challenge work that makes him think, games and activities that reenforce lessons (but may not even seem like "math") and more Socratic time with you where he explains his processes.

 

Best wishes.

 

Bill

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I agree with the above posts - just wanted to add...

 

Miquon is WONDERFUL and it certainly could only help, not hurt, BUT I think the thing you are specifically wanting is found in the HIGs for 1B and 2A. There are mental math lists in the back to go through and game suggestions in the main part of the IG. It sounds like he needs a break from moving forward and lots of time spent playing the games suggested in the HIG along with one mental math list per day or two.

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Thanks everyone! There are a lot of great suggestions, and I have a lot to think about.

 

We do talk through his strategies for solving his problems, and we tend to talk about math a lot as we go through the day as he really loves it and asks questions a lot (my husband is an engineer and I am was a microbiologist, so we both tend to be more math/science minded). Tonight at the dinner table he was doing multiplication in his head and trying to explain to his sister how 4x2 is the same as 4+4. Then he went on to asking "What's 4x4?" and working through that, and then was super pumped when he realized he could easily figure out 5x10... We aren't even doing multiplication yet (the concept has been introduced).

 

Thanks so much for all the resources. I think I am planning to really slow down with the workbook lessons as some suggested and do a bunch of games, etc. to get him to have automatic recall of his facts. Bill, I appreciated your saying there is a difference between memorizing math facts and internalizing them... It makes sense that even though it seems like he understands, he still needs to get to the point of it being automatic. I'm sure all the other "fun" stuff will be more fun later if he doesn't have to add up facts in his head ever time.

 

My husband, being the engineer, is excited about us possibly getting an abacus. Don't know anything about using that, but I checked out the link from crimson wife and that looks great! Thanks again everyone!

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We supplement SM with both the games from Rightstart and Miquon, mostly because my daughter likes things to stay fresh and new and does not like doing the same kind of thing over and over (even when it's good for her). She loves Miquon because the workbook has room for her to make up her own questions (as part of the worksheet). There is also a lot of practice of the basic facts, but in a way that is playful.

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I agree with the above posts - just wanted to add...

 

Miquon is WONDERFUL and it certainly could only help, not hurt, BUT I think the thing you are specifically wanting is found in the HIGs for 1B and 2A. There are mental math lists in the back to go through and game suggestions in the main part of the IG. It sounds like he needs a break from moving forward and lots of time spent playing the games suggested in the HIG along with one mental math list per day or two.

 

:iagree:

 

The HIGs do have mental math and activities that round-out the Singapore program.

 

Bill

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Get the HIG. It is worth it. I think where some people go wrong (this included me!) with Singapore is presenting the work without taking the time to teach. The HIG will help with the teaching end.

 

:iagree: as you can see from my sig, my DD is in 2A right now and the HIG is fabulous. It does include games and mental math practice. We do use Miquon but I don't think in your situation that it is necessary or even helpful. Get the HIG, play some more games like make 10 & race to 100.

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Slightly OT:

...a more diversified math mix including enrichment with "mind bending" challenge work that makes him think,..

 

Bill, can you expound on this a bit and maybe make some book/curricula suggestions? :bigear: Thanks!

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Is there somewhere in the HIG that explains what to do with the mental math worksheets? Do I just give them to him as worksheets for him to do in his head or is there something else to them? I do have an HIG, that I bought used, but I never saw explanations about what to do with the mental math.

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Slightly OT:

 

 

Bill, can you expound on this a bit and maybe make some book/curricula suggestions? :bigear: Thanks!

 

Depending on the age, but in addition to Miquon and the Singapore Intensive Practice books, the MEP (Mathematics Enchancement Programme) materials are available for free download online.

 

Also available free for download are the classic New Math materials from CSMP (Comprehensive School Mathematics Project). And also related SMSG (School Mathematics Study Group) textbooks can be found online. Despite the frequent lampooning of 1960's New Math, these resources are outstanding.

 

Another great book is Primary Grade Challenge Math by Ed Zaccaro. Zaccaro has a way of making "advanced" topics early understood. This has been a big favorite, and he has other books we look forward to using in the future.

 

Brain Maths (a Singapore supplement) has been fun this year.

 

We have also enjoyed thawing detours provoked by living books. "What's Your Angle Pythagoras?" is not the "best" math book in the world, but it did provoke an interest in angles and solving problems using the Pythagorean Theorem.

 

Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

 

Bill

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I think there is a subtle, but important, difference between memorizing "math facts" and internalizing them to the point of automaticity though practicing the re-grouping strategies.

 

Also, do you have your son verbally explain his strategies or is it all seat-work. It it's the latter, I would urge you to spend at least part of your math time in "oral mode." We do the Textbook this way. Answers are "explained" by the child almost every time. If there are re-grouping strategies employed they need to be communicated clearly, the "right answer" is not enough.

 

When the child has practiced re-grouping enough the answers become automatic. This puts the horse in front of the cart. Simply memorizing answers without the ability to manipulate numbers is a skill that is not "scaleable." the purpose of much of Singapore-style math is to build "scalable" skills, so ever more complex numbers and problems can be manipulated mentally.

 

 

Bill

 

Just wanted to add for those reading though, that if there is an LD, like dyslexia, this whole process needs to be turned on its head and approached in a different way. That automaticity in these kids may not occur for YEARS no matter how much number sense or practice is ingrained by Asian math methods due to the LD. Bill's advice is generally good here (as on many other threads), but for those who listened (like me) and had something else going on with dc, you will end up having to make major math changes. ;)

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Is there somewhere in the HIG that explains what to do with the mental math worksheets? Do I just give them to him as worksheets for him to do in his head or is there something else to them? I do have an HIG, that I bought used, but I never saw explanations about what to do with the mental math.

 

 

You just read the problems and your child answers. They are not worksheets to be written on. Usually I sit on the couch and read them and my 8yo does gymnastics on the floor while she's thinking of the answers. My 6yo likes to cuddle with me and look at the sheet (physical touch love language and visual learning style). The important thing is that they're doing the work in their heads.

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You just read the problems and your child answers. They are not worksheets to be written on. Usually I sit on the couch and read them and my 8yo does gymnastics on the floor while she's thinking of the answers. My 6yo likes to cuddle with me and look at the sheet (physical touch love language and visual learning style). The important thing is that they're doing the work in their heads.

 

 

Great! I will start adding those in for sure. We do a lot of mental math where I just ask him different ways to make 10, etc. already, and he enjoys doing things orally and not having to write :001_smile:. I'm glad to hear that that is what we are supposed to do with it! Thanks!

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