pqr Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Canada HSers, there is much on the news about this but what is the story? Is the government in Alberta now telling you how to teach morality and defining that morality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Canada HSers, there is much on the news about this but what is the story? Is the government in Alberta now telling you how to teach morality and defining that morality? No, this was already addressed in another recent thread. Impish posted a letter from a legislator explaining that any new policy would not be affecting the hs'ing community, which is separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) No, this was already addressed in another recent thread. Impish posted a letter from a legislator explaining that any new policy would not be affecting the hs'ing community, which is separate. It's not quite as cut and dry as that. The minister of education has not actually said yet how ir if it will after homeschooler's. In one breath he says homeschools count as schools and the bill clearly states schools must follow the new legislation, in the next he says nothing will change for homeschoolers. Until he specifically says homeschoolers are exempt from the new legislation they will be expected to follow it. The bill is coming up for the second reading which means it is pretty much a done deal. Now it is a matter of what specifically the minister of education says about homeschoolers. So it is up in the air still. As for the bill itself, it is not just telling us how to teach morality but rather imposing what morals and religious teachings are allowed at all in the homeschooling home. The new legislation states the NO religion may be taught specifically, all things must be presented as equal regardless of religious teachings (abortion, gay marriage etc). Every item used must be secular and diverse (no creationism, no christian materials at all, no bible study, even math must have word problems that incorporates these elements). All fine and dandy for a public school setting, and then the kids can go home and learn the morals/values/religion from families. However, if the bill goes through as is with no specific exclusion for homeschoolers there is no set separation of home and school so these regulations would have to be upheld at all times. Now 90% of the time that wouldn't matter, most families are going to do what they want, BUT it would give fodder to those against homeschooling to force a family back into public school. Ex-spouses, in-laws, nosy neighbors etc. All they have to do is report that a homeschooling family is not following these regulations and the family will have to prove otherwise or risk having their kids forced into school. Is it a high risk for that to happen no not really, but I sure wouldn't want to be the family they make an example of. Really it is a case of political correctness going too far. I accept a certain level of legislation in regards to homeschooling, we have to register, and present portfolios etc BUT I do not think the gov't has any right to determine what morals, religion etc I teach my kids. I also do not want my kids using the prescribed public school curriculum, and yet if this goes that could end up being something that gets pushed because there really isn't other curriculum out there that fits their requirements. Think about it there is so very few good secular resources out there and then it also has to meet the diversity requirements. This isn't in LA or social studies but every subject. Even if someone is teaching their children to respect others, that gay marriage is okay, or pro-choice etc it should NOT be legislated and forced by the gov't Edited March 2, 2012 by swellmomma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This is the current email I received today regarding this. Pay attention near the bottom of the article where they quote the minister from feb 23rd (they link to more quotes and the full article). The minister later said the article reached inaccurate conclusions but did not clarify his comments or retract them. There is no clear answer at this time how or if this will affect homeschooler's here in Alberta but the potential for excessive gov't interference certainly is still there until the minister specifically makes homeschooler's exempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 So do you have religiously affiliated schools in Canada and how are they impacted by this bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's the thing, pqr. We have the ability to sign up w/a seperate school board, which is Catholic. Now, I'm not a Catholic, but we are w/the seperate board. Nobody can tell the seperate school board that they cannot teach religion. This bill seems to be aimed at public school boards, not seperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's the thing, pqr. We have the ability to sign up w/a seperate school board, which is Catholic. Now, I'm not a Catholic, but we are w/the seperate board. Nobody can tell the seperate school board that they cannot teach religion. This bill seems to be aimed at public school boards, not seperate. Thank you. Do you think it will end here or is this the first step? In the US public schools can have religiously affiliated clubs, they can be led by a teacher (at least they could when I went through). Is this legal in Canada? Can a teacher head a religious club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's the thing, pqr. We have the ability to sign up w/a seperate school board, which is Catholic. Now, I'm not a Catholic, but we are w/the seperate board. Nobody can tell the seperate school board that they cannot teach religion. This bill seems to be aimed at public school boards, not seperate. Is that the case there "on the ground?" As I said in a previous thread, I don't trust journalists, so I am not saying this is the case. It just seems from the quote that even private/separate boards may not be able to teach whatever they choose. According to the article, "Under Alberta’s new Education Act, homeschoolers and faith-based schools will not be permitted to teach that homosexual acts are sinful as part of their academic program, says the spokesperson for Education Minister Thomas Lukaszuk. “Whatever the nature of schooling – homeschool, private school, Catholic school – we do not tolerate disrespect for differences,†Donna McColl, Lukaszuk’s assistant director of communications, told LifeSiteNews on Wednesday evening." This also seems to be a tricky regulation. How do you prove someone was teaching the Bible or Koran during school or outside of school in a homeschool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 This also seems to be a tricky regulation. How do you prove someone was teaching the Bible or Koran during school or outside of school in a homeschool? That's the risk. With a homeschool you can not differentiate between school hours and non-school so if they wanted to make an example of someone they would just have to claim it is during school hours kwim. Otherwise they would need to create further regulations such as homeschool families having to document hours taught in each specific program with the approved program so they could prove religious/moral upbringing is outside of school hours. On Monday there is a peaceful protest at the legislature for the hour leading up to the second reading of the bill. If I didn't have to work on Monday here 2 hours away from the city we would be at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's the risk. With a homeschool you can not differentiate between school hours and non-school so if they wanted to make an example of someone they would just have to claim it is during school hours kwim. Otherwise they would need to create further regulations such as homeschool families having to document hours taught in each specific program with the approved program so they could prove religious/moral upbringing is outside of school hours. On Monday there is a peaceful protest at the legislature for the hour leading up to the second reading of the bill. If I didn't have to work on Monday here 2 hours away from the city we would be at it. I think your concerns are valid. This regulation does seem like a gift to obnoxious exes, in-laws, etc. who just want to make trouble. (not saying that was the intent of the regulation.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I would be extremely concerned about that level of intervention, and I hope the new legislation doesn't come to fruition. It sounds way too much like a Big Brother situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think your concerns are valid. This regulation does seem like a gift to obnoxious exes, in-laws, etc. who just want to make trouble. (not saying that was the intent of the regulation.) Exactly. I actually think the regulation is very good in regards to public schools. However, given the current definition of homeschooling in Alberta it puts homeschools at risk. It needs to be written right into it that homeschools are exempt. Because their is 3 forms of homeschooling in Alberta not all homeschoolers are even legally considered to be homeschooling. THose that are Fully Aligned are actually considered legal public schoolers at home. It is so messed up. I fought CPS for a year about homeschooling here in Alberta and that was under the current regulations and me doing everything legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Brandi, could you pm me the details about the Leg? Wolf and the kids and I will go. Personally, I'd be satisfied if they added in the caveat, "schools run by the board" same as they've done elsewhere in the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Brandi, could you pm me the details about the Leg? Wolf and the kids and I will go. Personally, I'd be satisfied if they added in the caveat, "schools run by the board" same as they've done elsewhere in the bill. As long as it leaves those registered as traditional alone I agree. I will send you a pm with the email I got today copied to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So, did the vote go through on Monday? I guess, I should just google the news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Oh good gravy. Following the rally the minister of education tweeted the following: "Attended a rally put on by some home schoolers who protest against human rights in education" Anyone still want to tell me I am over reacting about the direction he is taking this bill. He is not even listening. The homeschoolers were not protesting human rights they were protesting for parental autonomy in education. Those homeschoolers that I know were sitting on the fence are now starting to jump into the fray and send messages and such to the minister. I have not heard if they held the vote Monday or postponed it again. When it is slated for Monday that means it can come up anytime this week. I am less and less impressed with the minister of education at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Ok, still praying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amirah Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 keeping my eyes on this situation. hope it doesn't effect homeschoolers or trickle down to ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 "Attended a rally put on by some home schoolers who protest against human rights in education" How incredibly inflammatory. Please keep us informed. I think this important for homeschoolers everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So, it's been passed. http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=bills_status&selectbill=002 This won't be good. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What a dink! :glare: Are not parental rights a human right!? And just because I don't want the government choosing my curriculum and telling me what values I must teach my children certainly does not mean I'm against human rights! We teach love and acceptance of all people to our children. Also, isn't Alberta a pretty conservative province? I'm just pretty surprised to see this pass there... Ontario is a liberal province, How long till it passes here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So, it's been passed. http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=bills_status&selectbill=002 This won't be good. :glare: Nope it will not be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What a dink! :glare: Are not parental rights a human right!? And just because I don't want the government choosing my curriculum and telling me what values I must teach my children certainly does not mean I'm against human rights! We teach love and acceptance of all people to our children. Also, isn't Alberta a pretty conservative province? I'm just pretty surprised to see this pass there... Ontario is a liberal province, How long till it passes here? I say based on how it goes from here and how they impose the law on homeschooler's 2-5 years the rest of Canada has similar changes to their education act. The Education minister just isn't listening to homeschooler's He figures we are angry that they want to be sure diversity is being taught etc but the reality is we just want to control what we teach our children in our own homes. Alberta already has a high level of regulation I refuse to comly with further. I will use the materials that work for us, and I will teach our religion and values. If I have to list the house for sale and move to another province I will. Actually my kids have over heard enough of what is going on with me talking to other homeschoolers, my family, listening to interviews etc that they have started saying we should have just moved to PEI like we had planned before buying this house. I would be willing to give up all funding if it meant getting the gov't out of my home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 So I've been brushing up on my Canadian politic knowledge, if it's only passed the 2nd reading, doesn't it have a fair way to go still? Is there a good chance it could be amended or even scrapped altogether before it's passed in full? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 As an Alberta resident, I don't see anything truly concerning in the actual quotes of the actual legislation that I have read. It's basically three things. 1) During school time (which you, yourself define -- there is a quote that says 'family values may be taught during family time) you may discuss a variety of ethical and religious opinions regarding homosexuality, including your own, as long as the discussion does not communicate 'disrespect'. (Since I consider all sinners to be worthy of respect and dignity, I'm not likely to do anything otherwise, but if I did <or if 'it's a sin' counts as 'disrespect'> it could just be 'not schooling' time.) 2) Your educational materials must reflect diversity -- meaning that they indicate the fact that diversity exists, that they do not obscure the fact that diversity exists. Diversity means 'people of different cultures, religions and lifestyles live in our country and/or in the world and/or in history'. (Since I consider it a plain ordinary fact that diversity exists, I'm not likely to choose curriculum that denies or obscures it... in fact, I can't imagine any kind of curriculum that could successfully deny such an obvious thing.) 3) You may not teach against the charter of human rights. Meaning, you may not teach that certain people don't deserve (or don't have) human rights, or that their rights should be denied. (Since I consider human rights to be a wonderful and godly expression of good civilization and culture, I'm not likely to wish I had the freedom to teach the opposite of what I believe.) It does not limit my ability to teach my religion to my children. It does not define everything I do or say as part of my homeschooling. If I wanted to violate any of these things, all I would need to say was, "That was a break. I was parenting, not homeschooling." -- and nobody could prove otherwise. That's why the legislation is logically understood not to effect homeschoolers, even though it (theoretically) applies to them. The only possible effect could be that if they ever require a reporting of 'instructional hours' I could not count hours in which I shared my opinions as a parent to a child under that total. So, really, I'm not worried. I think the whole issue has been overblown and misinterpreted. Even in the articles that over-blow it, the actual quotes tell a completely different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Got this from a friend who homeschools in Alberta. In case anyone is still on the fence about whether or Bill 2 is a potential problem in being tied to the Alberta Human Rights Act, I give you: MLA Laurie Blakeman, March 8, 2012 Hansard (page 407): ... "Nowhere is there a constitutional right to home-schooling...Nowhere in the Constitution or the Charter is there a right to distance learning or to home-schooling or to private schools. Those are accommodations that the province has seen in its authority to be able to say: "We will allow this. We will offer it." We have to keep that in mind as we go through the rest of this act, and I'm assuming it's going to take us awhile to debate our way through here." It seems to me, Ms Blakemen would be perfectly fine with the province removing our parental right to education our children in the manner we see fit in the name of enforcing "respect" and "diversity" in our curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 If Alberta disallows homeschooling, I have no problem moving across the border to SK. It'll screw w/Wolf's new job, possibly lead to him having to quit, which will break our hearts, but neither of us is willing to put our kids in a brick and mortar school. I honestly do have a hard time thinking that they'll take that step. Reality of it is, their own stats show hsing growing by leaps and bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Imp- not sure I follow... I googled Ms. Blakeman and read more to incite me! I couldn't find her comments in regards to homeschooling yet, but apparently she supports the bill but wants an amendment to make all parents unable to opt out? (as in Quebec) Or she supports the bill, however, an amendment was made to allow parents to opt out, and she does not support that amendment... ? Forgive my confusion, having read the remarks on her website, I can't fully figure it out. So she was saying that stuff about homeschooling not being protected by the charter of rights- meaning she thinks it should not be allowed?! Either way, I know enough of her to dislike what she stands for. :glare: ETA: upon further reading I may have 2 completely separate bills mixed together! Forgive me. I haven't read enough about bill 44 to know where I stand on the issue of legislating parents rights to opt out, when there was already a system in place... But I'm leaning in favour just because as a parent it would be nice to have something official to fall back on if it were a problem. Also, may I repeats question from above. If its only passed its 2nd reading is there a chance it could be amended in favour of hs'ers, or perhaps scrapped altogether (I admit the latter is likely improbable)? I've read some more about what Education Minister Lukaszuk has said wrt hs parents concerns, here's what he said: “This government in no way would ever want to interfere (in) what families discuss or not discuss in their homes. From a legal perspective … those concerns — even though real in their hearts and their minds — are not substantiated in the act. There is no intention to ever infringe on their rights. “They do not have to change their homeschooling practices in any way,” Lukaszuk said. “Whether they’re homeschooling children or not, we as government would not step into peoples’ kitchen and tell them what they can or cannot discuss.” Anyone else notice his use of the word "discuss"? Homeschooling parents are not talking about what they can discuss with their children they're talking about teaching!! And he dang well knows it! Edited March 10, 2012 by MrsJewelsRae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Imp- not sure I follow... I googled Ms. Blakeman and read more to incite me! I couldn't find her comments in regards to homeschooling yet, but apparently she supports the bill but wants an amendment to make all parents unable to opt out? (as in Quebec) Or she supports the bill, however, an amendment was made to allow parents to opt out, and she does not support that amendment... ? Forgive my confusion, having read the remarks on her website, I can't fully figure it out. So she was saying that stuff about homeschooling not being protected by the charter of rights- meaning she thinks it should not be allowed?! Either way, I know enough of her to dislike what she stands for. :glare: Also, may I repeats question from above. If its only passed its 2nd reading is there a chance it could be amended in favour of hs'ers, or perhaps scrapped altogether (I admit the latter is likely improbable)? I've read some more about what Education Minister Lukaszuk has said wrt hs parents concerns, here's what he said: “This government in no way would ever want to interfere (in) what families discuss or not discuss in their homes. From a legal perspective … those concerns — even though real in their hearts and their minds — are not substantiated in the act. There is no intention to ever infringe on their rights. “They do not have to change their homeschooling practices in any way,†Lukaszuk said. “Whether they’re homeschooling children or not, we as government would not step into peoples’ kitchen and tell them what they can or cannot discuss.†Anyone else notice his use of the word "discuss"? Homeschooling parents are not talking about what they can discuss with their children they're talking about teaching!! And he dang well knows it! I didn't post the comment by Ms.Blakeman, just was responding to what was posted here ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 THe current Minister may not *intend* to cause problems or change things for homeschoolers currently BUT he will not remain education minister forever. The road to h*ll is paved with good intentions. If this becomes law, who is to say how the next one implements it. Not to mention families like me, who already had CPS try to force the kids into public school, will have more fodder to use. It may not be the intentional of the minister right now but once made into a law that is a who other issue. When I was investigated by CPS, they found no abuse and no neglect they tried to force my kids into school anyway. They tried claiming I was socially isolating the kids and though they saw no evidence of abuse or neglect that was reason to stay involved. They told me if I put the kids in school they would close the file. THat didn't work. SO they threatened to have the kids removed. When they could not prove a case about social isolation since my kids are in so many clubs/groups/therapies/out with neightborhood kids etc. They tried to find fault in my education plan/curriculum. They tried to claim I was failing the kids academically because I was not a teacher. That was disproven by the medical professionals we deal with for the kids disabilities and by our school board which proved I have followed the letter of the law for my method of registering, and that the kids are learning each year (they have sample from the beginning of the year and end of the year). CPS didn't have a leg to stand on. THis proposed legislation however would give them something to grab hold of. If my materials did not meet all the standards of diversity they could say I was breaking this law and force the kids into public school. Regardless if that was the intention of the education minister or not once it is law it will be taken as is in court. I doubt alberta will ever outlaw homeschooling, but I can see them becoming like quebec and regulating much harsher than they do now. I can see them forcing albertan parents to only use ALberta program of studies (which would make homeschooler's public school at home students doing correspondence), I can see then taking away a parent's right to choose what is best for their child(ren) and using this law as step one towards that. Like Imp I have no problem jumping into SK, we go there regularily now as the city that straddles the boarder is only 45 minutes from my house. I will have an issue with my folks as to the sale of this house but otherwise I am not tied to this province. Even if I may put my kids into public school one day that should be up to me and not forced on me, As part of a parent's right to choose the best education for my children. That goes for location, materials, method, etc. I also learned that discussing this topic with my mother is a bad idea. She believes like much of the public that homeschoolers are just mad about teaching about gay marriage and will not listen when I explain that is not the case. In fact I was told she supports this law and would like homeschooling abolished. Yup moving away is looking better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Oops! My apologies, Imp! I redirect my questions to Liber, if you happen to know... swellmomma-CPS didn't have a leg to stand on. THis proposed legislation however would give them something to grab hold of. If my materials did not meet all the standards of diversity they could say I was breaking this law and force the kids into public school. Regardless if that was the intention of the education minister or not once it is law it will be taken as is in court. That is scary, and I believe you are right. Oh, and this is absolutely not about homosexuality with me either, it's about having the right to teach my children freely. Period. Edited March 11, 2012 by MrsJewelsRae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 As an Alberta resident, I don't see anything truly concerning in the actual quotes of the actual legislation that I have read. It's basically three things. 1) During school time (which you, yourself define -- there is a quote that says 'family values may be taught during family time) you may discuss a variety of ethical and religious opinions regarding homosexuality, including your own, as long as the discussion does not communicate 'disrespect'. (Since I consider all sinners to be worthy of respect and dignity, I'm not likely to do anything otherwise, but if I did <or if 'it's a sin' counts as 'disrespect'> it could just be 'not schooling' time.) 2) Your educational materials must reflect diversity -- meaning that they indicate the fact that diversity exists, that they do not obscure the fact that diversity exists. Diversity means 'people of different cultures, religions and lifestyles live in our country and/or in the world and/or in history'. (Since I consider it a plain ordinary fact that diversity exists, I'm not likely to choose curriculum that denies or obscures it... in fact, I can't imagine any kind of curriculum that could successfully deny such an obvious thing.) 3) You may not teach against the charter of human rights. Meaning, you may not teach that certain people don't deserve (or don't have) human rights, or that their rights should be denied. (Since I consider human rights to be a wonderful and godly expression of good civilization and culture, I'm not likely to wish I had the freedom to teach the opposite of what I believe.) It does not limit my ability to teach my religion to my children. It does not define everything I do or say as part of my homeschooling. If I wanted to violate any of these things, all I would need to say was, "That was a break. I was parenting, not homeschooling." -- and nobody could prove otherwise. That's why the legislation is logically understood not to effect homeschoolers, even though it (theoretically) applies to them. The only possible effect could be that if they ever require a reporting of 'instructional hours' I could not count hours in which I shared my opinions as a parent to a child under that total. So, really, I'm not worried. I think the whole issue has been overblown and misinterpreted. Even in the articles that over-blow it, the actual quotes tell a completely different story. I would be interested in responses from other Canadians. I know how I would feel were such a dictat passed in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have this sinking feeling that this bill will be created and eventually pass in Ontario also. It's only a matter of time. I feel driven to my knees to pray for the families that put themselves in the cross-hairs of attack for their very public declaration of how they will not change their style of educating their children. It is currently fashionable to attack Christian's and their beliefs. I was disappointed that the Catholic church wasn't up in arms about this more. Since, this will eventually effect how they teach in the classroom. If this bill was created to keep muslims, atheists or feminists families from teaching their beliefs to their children I feel there would have been h3ll to pay. But it's ok and popular, to attack christian families. Which is ironic because isn't the human rights code supposed to protect us also? At our church we have a huge population of homeschoolers and quite a few public school teachers and educational assistants. Our pastor took time on Sunday night to pray for homeschoolers locally and across Canada, and then for Christian educators in the school system because of this change in Alberta. I have one family member who doesn't support my homeschooling. She wants us to stop and frankly I wouldn't put it past her to cause me trouble because of my curriculum choices if it meant that either the children were put back into public school or preferably removed and placed in her home. So, I will no longer be sharing with her anything about homeschooling and my children won't be going over to visit as often and definitely not without me or my husband present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart'sjoy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Praying for wisdom for your families. And that these plans fail too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have this sinking feeling that this bill will be created and eventually pass in Ontario also. It's only a matter of time. I feel driven to my knees to pray for the families that put themselves in the cross-hairs of attack for their very public declaration of how they will not change their style of educating their children. It is currently fashionable to attack Christian's and their beliefs. I was disappointed that the Catholic church wasn't up in arms about this more. Since, this will eventually effect how they teach in the classroom. If this bill was created to keep muslims, atheists or feminists families from teaching their beliefs to their children I feel there would have been h3ll to pay. But it's ok and popular, to attack christian families. Which is ironic because isn't the human rights code supposed to protect us also? At our church we have a huge population of homeschoolers and quite a few public school teachers and educational assistants. Our pastor took time on Sunday night to pray for homeschoolers locally and across Canada, and then for Christian educators in the school system because of this change in Alberta. I have one family member who doesn't support my homeschooling. She wants us to stop and frankly I wouldn't put it past her to cause me trouble because of my curriculum choices if it meant that either the children were put back into public school or preferably removed and placed in her home. So, I will no longer be sharing with her anything about homeschooling and my children won't be going over to visit as often and definitely not without me or my husband present. But here's the thing... It *will* absolutely affect the Muslim schools and homeschoolers (we have both in AB). Christians aren't the only ones that can have issues w/believing homosexuality is contradicted by their faith (notice I said 'can', I do not state that all do). As I understand it, most major faiths have the same view. I'm referring to homosexuality specifically, since that seems to be what the minister's assistant narrowed her gaze upon. I think, if this comes to pass and gets challenged in court, it will be interesting to see how the Min of Ed tries to justify enforcing such a thing, when we're supposed to have freedom of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If it gets brought before the courts it will be before the human rights courts, which frankly are kangaroo courts. The normal procedures that govern real courts do not apply in these situations. These courts do not respect freedom of religion, in particular, christianity. Truth is not a defense and the concept of free speech is an American concept not a Canadian one according to one investigator that these courts employ. If you are the defendant and cannot afford a lawyer, too bad, you don't get legal aid. You defend yourself or pay out of pocket. Believing homosexuality is a sin doesn't go over too well in these courts. A Red Deer pastor was brought before these courts because he wrote an editorial expressing his views. He was found guilty and order to pay a monetary fine to the person who complained. Told he had to write a retraction and apologize for his views, and was prohibited from speaking about his opinions in public and in private. I believe he managed to get that verdict over turned in a real court, but I'm not completely sure about that. The only other person I know that successfully won against the HRC'S was Ezra Levant because he took his fight public and refused to be cowed by them. I really hope this bill doesn't get passed. At the very least they need to remove the reference to the Alberta human rights act to avoid people being brought before these courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If it gets brought before the courts it will be before the human rights courts, which frankly are kangaroo courts. The normal procedures that govern real courts do not apply in these situations. These courts do not respect freedom of religion, in particular, christianity. Truth is not a defense and the concept of free speech is an American concept not a Canadian one according to one investigator that these courts employ. If you are the defendant and cannot afford a lawyer, too bad, you don't get legal aid. You defend yourself or pay out of pocket. Believing homosexuality is a sin doesn't go over too well in these courts. A Red Deer pastor was brought before these courts because he wrote an editorial expressing his views. He was found guilty and order to pay a monetary fine to the person who complained. Told he had to write a retraction and apologize for his views, and was prohibited from speaking about his opinions in public and in private. I believe he managed to get that verdict over turned in a real court, but I'm not completely sure about that. The only other person I know that successfully won against the HRC'S was Ezra Levant because he took his fight public and refused to be cowed by them. I really hope this bill doesn't get passed. At the very least they need to remove the reference to the Alberta human rights act to avoid people being brought before these courts. Yes, that was overturned. Lets face it, HSLDA would be foaming at the mouth and wetting their pants at the chance to tackle this in both the HR court, and the 'real' courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Imp or Swellmomma not sure if you know, but there is a facebook page called Alberta Homeschool families that is trying to keep parents update on the changes with the Education Act. Here's a link with the latest. http://www.wildrose.ca/feature/lukaszuk-misleading-albertans-on-parental-education-rights-anderson/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 There is also another protest planned on March 19th. I believe the details are on the facebook or can be found at the AHEA website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks for the link. I am not too interested in the wildrose party but I will see what they have to say. I have been reading excerpts from the ALberta Hansard, which is the transcripts of the parlimentary debates. It looks like many MLAs are against for the same reason many homeschoolers are, not because of gay rights etc but because it over steps parental autonomy. THere have been a few though who think all special needs kids need to be a classroom and not allowed to homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is not right, or that if homeschooling shall continue that hainig this bill will be good to make sure parents are teaching the "right" things. I will provide some interesting excerpts in a moment. ! thing that I have also heard is a desire of some members of parliament to amend bill 44. Now on this I do not have concrete evidence of, just the way many of them are speaking of the education act etc. Bill 44 of the education act states that a teacher must notify a parent in writing of any curriculum that explicitly teaches religion, sexuality or orientation. At that point a parent may write a letter to exclude their child from that particular class or class activity. Many want to amend bill 44 and disallow this refusal. Currently many homeschoolers feel that Bill 2 is no big deal because they can just write a letter exluding their child from using "x curriculum" first off it is not that easy, Bill 44 was designed to address sex ed and religion courses directly. It does not address being able to exclude the appointed curriculum 100% that of course would be akin to truancy since your child would never be at school and children must be registered with a school from ages 6-16. Regardless, if bill 44 is amended that right will be removed anyway, and we will still be stuck with bill 2 which takes control of education away from parents. On to the Hansard. These exerpts come from The evening session of March 14th. Those interested in reading teh full Hansards can do so by googling Alberta Hansard 2012. They are discussing more than bill 2 so that is why I am not reading them in entirety at this point I don't care about the other bills :D Okay technical difficulties are making it impossible to copy and paste so I will link to the section. Right at the beginning of this discussion is bill 44 and how it needs to be addressed along with the propsed amendment of bill 2. The first speaker address amendment A1 which is the proposed admendment to Bill 44, the Chair then brings him back to the discussion at hand which is SUBadmendment SA1, which addresses Bill 2. NOtice how closely these 2 are tied and how changing them take all educational control away from parents. Alberta Hansard March 14, 2012 Evening reading It is a very interesting read but does take some time, so be warned. I wish more Albertans would take the time to read through what is actually being said and being proposed and how amending both of these bills will actually take away all parental rights in the education of their children. I am saddens by how many don't care, or how many assume it doesn't affect them. Tlaking with my family about this, my mom's response is teaching gay marriage is okay is a good thing but she doesn't "get" the ramifications of this that it is not about gay marriage. Our last discussion of it taught me never to discuss this with her, she believes the sound bites she sees on the news and figures I am worked up over nothing. My sister has her head in the sand. My nephew is 3, he has been on a waitlist for a preschool for almost 2 years, meaning she tried to get him into school at age 2. SHe maintains that he gov't knows what they are doing and that it won't impact her because she thinks she should listen to the "experts". Sadly this head in the sand mentality is too common and people are not realizing how much this will impact their families regardless of what form of education they use. And if bill 44 is changed you won't even have a say in how they are educated at all. I am not one to get worked up in politics. Heck I have only voted 1 time in my whole life. Before this proposed bill I was one of those people, I get it. This bill woke me up and the more I read the more of a tizzy I am getting in. This is bad bad bad. Between the 2 bills (and the admendments to bill 44 have been very low key compared to bill 2) are taking away parental rights from Albertan's essentially from ages 6-16, and Albertans seem to presumably okay with that :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Can I just say how awesome it is that we can discuss this here. There has been fabulous talks on an email group I am on about it and I have been learning a lot. But it seems that homeschoolers in other venues just don't care. The general consensus is that the minister said it won't change anything so it's no big deal. I love that the people here actually care enough to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 For anyone interested they have been showing live debates on this topic. I missed last night's debate but it begins again today at 130pm Mountain time at www.assembly.ab.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It is getting interesting in reading the trascripts. According to the Mar 20 afternoon session. The Alberta Hansard quotes the calgary-buffalo riding MLA, accuses homeschoolers of witchcraft and that amending this bill for homeschoolers would be akin to funding witches, druids and scientology. Of course the purpose of the bill to to encourage diversity :glare: Now okay there is wiccan homeschoolers but so what, first the christians are lambasted because they want to teach YE and that certain things are sins. In fact the same MLA comments on those things and lists them in conjuction with witches, druids and scientologists. I love though that it is believed that this bill will encourage diversity and reduce bullying and the members fighting for it are insulting everyone they can apparently. Apparently it is only diversity if you are a WASP, or close to it. In otherwoards, it will encourage diversity of other religions as long as they follow the approved one. Yup big change from the current way. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2012/201203201.asp So, now I'm confused. Did the vote pass or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2012/201203201.asp So, now I'm confused. Did the vote pass or not? It hasn't been voted on yet, it is still being debated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well the legislative assembly is over until April 2. Bill2 has been put on hold until then. The premier did say yesterday on the news that she was not going to call an election yet because she wants to see this bill passed. It will be interesting to see how fast it is brought back up once the LA reconvenes. I suspect the premier is hoping that things will settle down and people will move on by the 2nd. If that is the case she is thinking of the wrong province. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Victory! for now... http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2012/201203271.asp "The ruling party has called for an election and by so doing, the legislative session is officially ended; therefore the government’s attempt to take over all education in Alberta was defeated for lack of a vote." quoted from article. But this can, and most likely will come back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I, "Under Alberta’s new Education Act, homeschoolers and faith-based schools will not be permitted to teach that homosexual acts are sinful as part of their academic program, says the spokesperson for Education Minister Thomas Lukaszuk. “Whatever the nature of schooling – homeschool, private school, Catholic school – we do not tolerate disrespect for differences,†Donna McColl, Lukaszuk’s assistant director of communications, told LifeSiteNews on Wednesday evening." ? All else aside, it's a bit funny that they do not realize how contradictory this statement is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 All else aside, it's a bit funny that they do not realize how contradictory this statement is. :lol: Yeah, really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Victory! for now... http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2012/201203271.asp "The ruling party has called for an election and by so doing, the legislative session is officially ended; therefore the government’s attempt to take over all education in Alberta was defeated for lack of a vote." quoted from article. But this can, and most likely will come back again. It will be back. I just read something today that had the premier quoted while speaking with the PSBAA and saying that she will be bringing it back RIGHT after the election. Without a change of current gov't the premier will bring back the bill and it will be passed, after all she will have 4 years to keep trying. Then 1 year before the next election the gov't will suddenly send out cheques as part of an oil revenue windfall, or offer a major tax break or drop teh GST and suddenly everyone will love them again and forget about their anger over bill 2 (well under it's new name of course) and re-elect them again. THey are hoping that the complacency of the people after the election will allow this to slide through and get away with infringing on parental rights and there will be little we can do for another 4 years after this election if we don't squash it completely now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.