Ds7 can not rhyme

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

How can I help him with this? We go through it daily.

 

Here is an example "I ask him what rhymes with sad--- he doesn't understand. So I help him-- a rhyming word is another word with the same ending sound- such as sad-dad, sad-mad, sad-fad-- can you hear the ending sound in both word? the -ad sound?"

 

 

He will give me words such as sat, sand, set, same for rhyming words that rhyme with sad. So it seems like he can't get that rhyming words have the same ENDING sound instead of beginning (or even in some cases he gives me words with the same beginning letter)

 

 

 

Another question:

 

Now its to the point where ds5 will tell him. I always tell ds5 not to tell his brother, I have sent him to another room and still hear him shouting the answers. I don't know if he is trying to show off, or if he feels bad for his brother (knowing their relationship I would guess that later) or what. Ds5 doesn't immediately tell his brother the answers- but after he can't answer he will usually break down and tell him. I don't know if I should talk to ds5 about ds7's learning problems and explain to him that he can not tell his brother the answers (ds 5 will tell ds7 what words are that he is struggling with, answer to math problems, just about everything. Answer comprehension questions) Its almost like he is really protective of his older brother. He ALWAYS finds excuses to be near us no matter how hard I try to keep him away. We have a small house also so I don't know how practical that is. How would you deal with this? I know ds5 is not trying to be disobedient, but I honestly think he doesn't like to see his big brother struggle- which is AWESOME, I LOVE that but he can't help him when I try to teach his older brother, kwim? WWYD on both of these issues?

Edited March 1, 2012 by wy_kid_wrangler04

[PeterPan]

Is this dc who can't rhyme the same one with a developmental delay? Sorry I've lost track. I might even be attributing problems that aren't there. If you've got an overall delay, then that's probably your answer. Subtract the years for the amount of his delay and see if his skill level is typical to that age.

 

If he's not the one with the developmental delay, then how's his other stuff? Is he reading? You could have some dyslexia or auditory processing issues there. It's definitely not something to gloss.

 

That's interesting that the brother is getting in the middle. How does the struggling dc feel when he's asked to do these things that he can't do? Maybe there's a clue there that the brother is picking up on? Maybe you actually need to back up and wait for a bit more readiness, so he can do it without stress?

[Julie Smith]

For the ryhming.

 

The phonics books by Brian P. Cleary should help with this. Every page spread has three rhyming words on one side. It then has a big picture and those three words used in a sentence.

 

Rat

Sat

Cat

The cat sat on the rat.

 

http://www.brianpcleary.com/phonics/index.html

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Is this dc who can't rhyme the same one with a developmental delay? Sorry I've lost track. I might even be attributing problems that aren't there. If you've got an overall delay, then that's probably your answer. Subtract the years for the amount of his delay and see if his skill level is typical to that age.

 

If he's not the one with the developmental delay, then how's his other stuff? Is he reading? You could have some dyslexia or auditory processing issues there. It's definitely not something to gloss.

 

That's interesting that the brother is getting in the middle. How does the struggling dc feel when he's asked to do these things that he can't do? Maybe there's a clue there that the brother is picking up on? Maybe you actually need to back up and wait for a bit more readiness, so he can do it without stress?

 

 

 

Yes, same child. He is not even at this developmental age though when it comes to rhyming. He is not reading. He can read some cvc words but still gets tripped up on those. I and a throw him for a major loop and put him into a tail-spin.

 

He doesn't seem bothered at all that his 5 year old brother gets it so easy while he doesn't. Infact, it doesn't seem to phase him at all. His little brother is farther ahead of him in every area. When ds5 gives him the answers he says "Thanks, Pudgie!" (ds'5's nickname ;)) Ds5 is very encouraging to ds7-- saying things like "You can do it, Bubby" (ds7's nickname ;)) or "Good try Bubby, try_______ (then gives the answer)" My 5 year old learns by osmosis I think. He seems really advanced to me but I don't think he is- I think its just because his older brother is so delayed-- but that doesn't seem to register to either of them at this point.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

For the ryhming.

 

The phonics books by Brian P. Cleary should help with this. Every page spread has three rhyming words on one side. It then has a big picture and those three words used in a sentence.

 

Rat

Sat

Cat

The cat sat on the rat.

 

http://www.brianpcleary.com/phonics/index.html

 

 

 

I will try this! Thank you. Most of his phonics readers do alot with rhyming words. I am just at a loss. (he is good at doing this to me :001_huh:)

[PeterPan]

Are you sure about this? A dc who is 7 but developmentally delayed 2-3 years (or more?) could have the readiness of a 4 yo. I remember my daughter struggled with rhyming at 4 and almost to 5. I would play verbal games with her making new sentences to go with How now brown cow, and she struggled. She doesn't test dyslexic now btw, but I didn't teach her with traditional phonics. I taught her with SWR. I see you're doing AAS. I don't know. *I* don't plan to teach my ds to read with AAS, even though I own all the levels and like it. *If* there's going to be a click, it might be he'd benefit from going at it a different way. What we did was put all the SWR words onto flashcards after we had dictated and understood them fully, and we practiced reading them over and over, no sounding out.

 

Well I'm on a rabbit trail. Have you just done a little inventory lately to see what he has and what he doesn't? That might be interesting. Go through the whole gamut (sound for written letter, identify letter when I say a sound, etc. etc.).

 

Have you looked at one l michele's posts? Her ds is about the same age and has a similar diagnosis. I really don't know if he's reading yet or not. You could check her posts and see. It might honestly be normal to that stage.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Are you sure about this? A dc who is 7 but developmentally delayed 2-3 years (or more?) could have the readiness of a 4 yo. I remember my daughter struggled with rhyming at 4 and almost to 5. I would play verbal games with her making new sentences to go with How now brown cow, and she struggled. She doesn't test dyslexic now btw, but I didn't teach her with traditional phonics. I taught her with SWR. I see you're doing AAS. I don't know. *I* don't plan to teach my ds to read with AAS, even though I own all the levels and like it. *If* there's going to be a click, it might be he'd benefit from going at it a different way. What we did was put all the SWR words onto flashcards after we had dictated and understood them fully, and we practiced reading them over and over, no sounding out.

 

Well I'm on a rabbit trail. Have you just done a little inventory lately to see what he has and what he doesn't? That might be interesting. Go through the whole gamut (sound for written letter, identify letter when I say a sound, etc. etc.).

 

Have you looked at one l michele's posts? Her ds is about the same age and has a similar diagnosis. I really don't know if he's reading yet or not. You could check her posts and see. It might honestly be normal to that stage.

 

 

Well, I am basing that on what his OT says. I don't remember how dd's were rhyming at that age. Ds5 is very good at rhyming but he is a totally different cookie! Like I said, there is a possibility he is very advanced- I feel horrible because I don't have the time to spend with him that he deserves because I spend so much time with ds 7 and the things I need to do with dd's.

 

I need to go and read her posts- she has commented a few times that my ds sounds JUST like hers. I think I need to PM her and just chat with her for a while. I know she posted once what her ds was using next year but I didn't get a good chance to look at it. Off to go stalk her for a while :D ;)

[merry gardens]

Have you checked his phonemic awareness? If he's not hearing rhymes, it's a fairly strong indication there may be underlying phonemic awareness problems.

 

Can he break down the sounds in CVC words to isolate the sounds? If he can, then that's how you can show him rhymes. (If he can't then you have more work to do to get him to that point.) My dear dyslexic son didn't hear rhymes until we did lots of remediation--and then the remediation to teach rhyme involve showing him with blank colored tiles, that the first sound changes while the vowel and ending sound(s) stay the same.

[Mandamom]

Have you checked his phonemic awareness? If he's not hearing rhymes, it's a fairly strong indication there may be underlying phonemic awareness problems.

 

Can he break down the sounds in CVC words to isolate the sounds? If he can, then that's how you can show him rhymes. (If he can't then you have more work to do to get him to that point.) My dear dyslexic son didn't hear rhymes until we did lots of remediation--and then the remediation to teach rhyme involve showing him with blank colored tiles, that the first sound changes while the vowel and ending sound(s) stay the same.

 

:iagree:

 

Here is a website on phonemic awareness. The only thing I don't like about it is that they put rhyming first and in my experience it should be the last thing that is worked on.

 

 

 

Phoneme Awareness Activities

Identify the beginning sound of a word

Identify the ending sound of a word

Identify the middle sound of a word

 

Segmenting Activities

Segment sentences into words

Segment words into syllables

Segment words into sounds

 

Blending Activities

Blend syllables into words

Blend sounds into words

 

Manipulation Activities

Delete syllables from words

Substitute syllables in words

Delete sounds from words

Substitute sounds in words

 

Rhyme Awareness Activities

Identify words that rhyme

Produce words that rhyme

[momsuz123]

Forgive me for jumping in and asking this but has he been tested for auditory issues? I ask because he sounds similar to my younger dd. She is just now doing much better with rhyming, but it takes a lot of work, and still not great.

 

 

I don't really "know" her dx yet, as she is too young for the APD test. She is barely reading on grade level, with a lot of effort, and not much love (from her, I give her lots of love!). We were going through AAR1 really well, when all of a sudden it was like something came crashing down - we hit the blends.

 

I started a new game with her lately. I take the foam letters and spread them across the floor. I tell her to jump to the letter that starts with sound of the word I am going to say. Since both her visual and auditory pathways aren't working too hot, I try and do more with kinesthetics - it seems to work for her. Now, doing that same game for ending sounds, tricky still.

[Guest]

I know I don't have any kind of experience to be advising you but if there was one thing I liked about our Calvert PK program when I used it with Adrian, was the focus on rhyming through nursery rhymes. The constant repetition and pointing out the rhymes felt like such a natural way to teach my visual child rhyming by ear (sounds). If he feels too old for nursery rhymes, you could try poetry. This way he does not feel pressured to come up with a word on the spot, to rhyme with the one at hand. By learning the rhymes/ poems, when you get to the word that rhymes with the first word, you can pause and let the child add the word that goes next and point out, "see how this sound rhymes with this sound?". Rhymes do not necessarily have the same spelling so I was really glad that Adrian was taught rhyming by sound first, before seeing that words with the same ending rhyme. Don't know if it will work for you but I figured it was worth the shot to share.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Guest

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I know I don't have any kind of experience to be advising you but if there was one thing I liked about our Calvert PK program when I used it with Adrian, was the focus on rhyming through nursery rhymes. The constant repetition and pointing out the rhymes felt like such a natural way to teach my visual child rhyming by ear (sounds). If he feels too old for nursery rhymes, you could try poetry. This way he does not feel pressured to come up with a word on the spot, to rhyme with the one at hand. By learning the rhymes/ poems, when you get to the word that rhymes with the first word, you can pause and let the child add the word that goes next and point out, "see how this sound rhymes with this sound?". Rhymes do not necessarily have the same spelling so I was really glad that Adrian was taught rhyming by sound first, before seeing that words with the same ending rhyme. Don't know if it will work for you but I figured it was worth the shot to share.

 

 

This makes alot of sense! I will get a bunch of poetry and nursery rhymes and start reading them to him and see how it goes! Thank you!!! :001_smile:

[ssavings]

We used the "Bag of Rhyming Objects" from Montessori n Such. Its pricey (about $30), comes with 20-something pairs of rhyming objects (snake/cake, rock/sock, etc.). For my DD5, the tactile objects kept her interest longer so she'd review more. Also, because she didnt have to listen to or read the words, it was a bit less frusterating.

[Guest]

This makes alot of sense! I will get a bunch of poetry and nursery rhymes and start reading them to him and see how it goes! Thank you!!! :001_smile:

 

You're welcome. I hope it helps :)! I will be using the same approach with my little guy too. He has already learned a few nursery rhymes, and when he is ready I will start pointing out the rhymes. It is interesting that at the time we were also using Hooked on Phonics but I never pointed out the rhymes in the word families during our reading lesson. I just let the nursery rhymes work on rhyming. One night, shortly after we had started (I think it was a couple of months if I remember correctly), he says to me "mummy, snail/ pail it rhymes". Honestly, I did not expect it to register that fast but the approach did work very well for him.

 

I also had the Calvert nursery rhyme CD and later bought the Wee Sing CD too and he used to love listening to those. Once they are familiar and comfortable with the words of the nursery rhymes, they will jump in to add a word at the end, and that's when you jump at the chance to point out the rhyme ;).

[Carolina3]

One thing I found that helped my son was to say “hose rhymes with†and then point to a body part (nose). That way he didn’t have to come up with it out of thin air and he started feeling more confident in his rhyming abilities. Then I moved him into using the Wilson letter cards and we made a stack of rhyming words so he could see that the ending sounds always stayed the same.

[Lecka]

Hi!

 

I had this same, or a similar, issue with my son. The only thing to work for him was what Merry Gardens said, but with letter tiles (I tried with the colored tiles).

 

I did do every other suggestion, and I am sure they helped ultimately.

 

I think every suggestion is good and could help a child.

 

But here is the thing... my son is still bad at rhyming. So I think it is a major, major sign of problems with phonemic awareness. But I don't think you have to get to rhyming. I think you can do the segmenting and blending skills and then start reading.

 

I have read some things suggesting that a lot of young kids cannot produce rhymes. The reason is they do not become aware of them just by hearing them, b/c they are not separating the word into its beginning and ending sounds naturally (which, of course, many children do). But for some kids they will show higher ability with rhymes after they have started reading, b/c as they read they might be looking at words that way. (At the same time -- I have also read that there are adults who still do not rhyme well and that is considered a sign for dyslexia.... but it is also considered that a fair number of these adults could do it if they had been taught with multisensory methods as children and then applied the sounding-out learned that way and continued to read that way.... complete with brain scans of children before and 1 year after being taught this way, in the book Overcoming Dyslexia.)

 

But -- blending and segmenting really are needed to begin reading.

 

My son turned out to need dyslexia teaching methods ----- they are good for young kids whether or not they turn out to have dyslexia. The reason is that they are multisensory ----- if hearing sounds doesn't work, okay, show them. If hearing them and having them look at something don't work, okay, make letter tiles into a manipulative so they are moving them around. Then they are hearing, seeing, and moving something at the same time. My son is just something of a blank when it comes to flashcards or just looking at things, and forget hearing, but when you add in moving things ----- it still took several weeks but moving things works for him and is required for him. Now everyone says use manipulatives for math but for reading manipulatives (letter cards, letter tiles, different kinds of letters) are considered only for "remedial" children, but I think that is very ridiculous.... and I have found out since that the Montessori school here uses letter cards as manipulatives and uses them in the same ways I used the letter tiles from a program that is recommended for dyslexia. So I think this is just good teaching! Not the only way -- but I think it has to be one of the things done. I think the more methods used the better, probably!

 

But with my son -- when I tried him rhyming objects, well, he didn't understand what a rhyme was, that didn't help him. It was still asking him something he had no idea what I was talking about, b/c he was not aware of rhyming sounds. Despite massive amounts of nursery rhymes and songs etc. over the years. He was able to get it being shown while moving something while saying something or hearing something.

 

There is a thing on the Barton website that lets you see if your child could start with Barton Level 1. I bought Level 1 but I ended up using AAS level 1 (the beginning where you segment cvc words) and Reading Reflex (but with AAS tiles). He needed a lot of help with the level of Barton 1, and it took weeks. But at present he doesn't need the best and most multisensory (as I think these are) methods for reading. He is okay to see things on a page, b/c he has crossed the bridge to those things making sense to him. But he is still learning more slowly and needing more review than most kids, I think.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Lecka

[RamonaQ]

Have you checked his phonemic awareness? If he's not hearing rhymes, it's a fairly strong indication there may be underlying phonemic awareness problems.

 

Can he break down the sounds in CVC words to isolate the sounds? If he can, then that's how you can show him rhymes. (If he can't then you have more work to do to get him to that point.) My dear dyslexic son didn't hear rhymes until we did lots of remediation--and then the remediation to teach rhyme involve showing him with blank colored tiles, that the first sound changes while the vowel and ending sound(s) stay the same.

 

:iagree:

 

ReadingReflex has some good phonemic awareness games to play. Buy 2 copies of the book so you can cut one into the letter tiles and strips.

[Lecka]

I really like Reading Reflex except I would get a better kind of letter tile (or letter manipulative). Those little flimsy pieces of paper did not work here. I went back to Reading Reflex and did really well with it once I had a good manipulative.

[Ottakee]

Honestly, it can be a sign of a delay but he CAN learn to read and read well without rhyming.

 

My daughter couldn't rhyme until about age 13-14 but she can read at a solid 4th grade level and she has a low IQ as well as LDs. We worked HARD, VERY VERY HARD with the I See Sam books and then later added in Apples and Pears spelling and she can now read and spell and even alphabetize, rhyme, etc.

[PeterPan]

We used the "Bag of Rhyming Objects" from Montessori n Such. Its pricey (about $30), comes with 20-something pairs of rhyming objects (snake/cake, rock/sock, etc.). For my DD5, the tactile objects kept her interest longer so she'd review more. Also, because she didnt have to listen to or read the words, it was a bit less frusterating.

 

I started a new game with her lately. I take the foam letters and spread them across the floor. I tell her to jump to the letter that starts with sound of the word I am going to say. Since both her visual and auditory pathways aren't working too hot, I try and do more with kinesthetics - it seems to work for her. Now, doing that same game for ending sounds, tricky still.

 

Love these ideas!!! My ds3 is very kinesthetic, so they would be fun for him. :)

[Lecka]

I love those ideas, too. I like the ones also where you cut out pictures and then pick out rhyming ones, and we had a puzzle where the rhyming items fit together. But we have used items as well.

 

I think those are all really appropriate for age 3!!!

 

It is just -- I got to the point where my son was 6 and couldn't do any of it. So I think it is all good things to do, but when there are people who have kids who can't blend, segment, rhyme, etc., and they are getting to be 6 and up, I think there is a lot to be said for trying the explicit phonemic awareness stuff with letters and letter manipulatives.

 

But I am doing a lot more rhyme activities with my little kids even than I did with my older son. And, I did a lot with him, but more along the lines of having him fill in words in nursery rhymes, or reading him Hop on Pop and telling him the rhyming words and reading him the word families. I could have done more with things besides that.

 

Another good activity, though, is to have picture cards or items, and have them ready to go in two piles, one a pile if it rhymes with one thing, and into the other pile if it rhymes with the other thing. So you can have cat, hat, rat, mixed in with lamb, ham, ram, tram, and let them separate them out. I have seen quite a few activities for sorting activities like that, using picture cards, pictures from a magazine, or anything like that. You can have sorts like that by the first sound in a word, if that is what you are working on. Or, by vowel sound.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Lecka

[RamonaQ]

I really like Reading Reflex except I would get a better kind of letter tile (or letter manipulative). Those little flimsy pieces of paper did not work here. I went back to Reading Reflex and did really well with it once I had a good manipulative.

 

I ran my sheets through the laminator. Lasted through 2 kids and handed them down to another.

[SunD]

Do you know The Name Game song? We did it with words instead of just names. To rhyme "cat" you sing

 

Cat cat bo bat

banana fana fo fat

me my mo mat

cat!

 

Look it up on YouTube or something if you don't know the tune.

 

Now, I had to sing it multiple times, daily, for about a month! But it worked and they love the song. I let the kids suggest words and names for me to rhyme. Their names, mom, dad, baby, car, house, etc. Whatever they could come up with. They think it's hilarious to point out which rhymes aren't real words. (But be aware that "duck" is NOT a good suggestion!) After a few days DD started singing along with the most-repeated ones, like their names. Eventually she could sing them herself without my cues. Now she can do any word at all ... and she can hear the rhymes in other word groups. :001_smile:

 

HTH, I wanted to suggest something fun for you!

[MomatHWTK]

If I recall correctly, the Study Dog online phonics lessons do a lot of rhyming exercises. You might have to help him select the right answers, but it would help him to hear and model rhyming.