If we don't do SM the "Singapore" way . . .

[Staceyshoe]

will that cause problems later? I just don't get the bar models unless it's a very straightforward and simple problem. I've watched the videos. I've read the text. It seems easy until I need to do it for one of the "challenging" CWP. I think some of my neurons exploded yesterday trying to figure this out--and we're only in level 3.:001_huh:

 

Funny thing is, I jotted down the algebraic way of solving the problem (just to try to wrap my mind around what needed to happen so I could figure out how to do it without algebra). Suddenly ds looked at chicken scratch formula and said, "Now THAT makes sense!" (He uses Khan Academy and his gf is a retired high school math teacher, so he has a rudimentary understanding of algebra.) Suddenly the stress in both us evaporated. We both understand algebra so much better.

 

So, if we just use algebra for the more complex problems, will we regret it in later years of SM? Will we regret it when it's time for algebra instruction? (I had been planning on going with AOPS, but I must admit that our recent math challenges have me reconsidering my ability to teach it.)

[chepyl]

It took me a few problems to get the bar method down. I also wanted to do algebra. I drew the diagrams for a few problems amdbthen would do it when Ds got confused, but is started soing them in his head before I could get anything drawn out and he did not want the drawings, but he is not visual. He dislikes pictures and manipulatives.

 

I think the diagrams are good, I understand algebra on a different level now than I did in school, I will push him to use the diagrams and work to figure them out because as a mathy person, I can see the benefit to understanding. I would try to do at least some of them.

[Dmmetler]

I think that it's going to depend on your child. If you've got a child who naturally grasps the algebraic side on first seeing it, they'll probably be fine. I was/am the mean mommy who makes my DD do it multiple ways for the same problem, because she prefers to use algebra over the bars as well (which, I think, had everything to do with the fact that she was barely 6 with below age level fine motor skills at the time she first encountered bar diagrams-algebra was easier to write) On this board, where it's not that unusual for kids to be able to work at multiple levels at the same time, I suspect as long as you're teaching systematically and making sure the child understands WHY it works, you'll be fine.

 

SM, though, was written for classrooms containing a range of kids, which is why the IP and EP books exist-because the assumption is that in a given classroom, there will be a few kids who need the IP, a few who need the EP, and a bunch for whom the workbook is about right. And I'm guessing that kids who don't attack the IP challenge problems eagerly probably are going to have an easier time with bar diagrams than algebra when they're 8-9 years old.

[Dana]

What I find fascinating is that some of the problems are easier to solve (and faster) using bar diagrams than using algebra!

 

I sometimes let my son solve problems just with the arithmetic steps (no symbols) and sometimes require he use a bar model and show all work. Sometimes I show him the algebraic representation of the bar models. I think the more tools he has, the better off he'll be.

[Dustybug]

I should not open threads like these. It's issues like this that have me wanting to :auto: away from Singapore. *sigh* We are in the midst of earlybird, and people here on the board convinced me to give a year of Primary Mathematics a try since it isn't exactly the same as earlybird, so I've already purchased everything. I'm still quite uneasy though. I am far, far from a mathy person and I'm worried that I will hit a stumbling block somewhere in my ability to teach and/or explain the singapore way of math.

[Staceyshoe]

I should not open threads like these. It's issues like this that have me wanting to :auto: away from Singapore. *sigh* We are in the midst of earlybird, and people here on the board convinced me to give a year of Primary Mathematics a try since it isn't exactly the same as earlybird, so I've already purchased everything. I'm still quite uneasy though. I am far, far from a mathy person and I'm worried that I will hit a stumbling block somewhere in my ability to teach and/or explain the singapore way of math.

 

Oh, don't let me discourage you! I love, love, love Singapore! Actually, I've been amazed at how much I've learned about doing math--even in the early grade levels. Math is not intuitive for me, and I think it has taught me how to think mathematically. It's now simple for me to solve large problems in my head. (Yes, I've hit a sticking point with the challenging word problems and bar diagrams, but I think it's just counter-intuitive for ds and I both. Maybe we'll figure it out or maybe we'll just solve the problems in the way that makes more sense to us. Either way, I wouldn't trade SM for anything and plan to use it with my younger ds too.)

[regentrude]

We are all very mathy in our family - and nobody ever used the bar method.

We all prefer to solve it straighforward using algebra; it makes much more sense to us.

[Crimson Wife]

DD did Hands-On Equations before I ever started her on Singapore CWP, so I have always allowed her to use algebra if she wished. The exception is if she gets stuck or makes a conceptual (rather than a computation) error. When that happens, I require her to go back and draw the bar models.

 

DS hasn't done HOE yet, so he uses the bar models.

[CaffeineDiary]

I'm a grumpy old guy (Get off my lawn!) and my perspective here is that the "bar model" is a way of introducing the concept of fractions and getting students comfortable manipulating them as units without having them learn algebra. But, in the long haul, having proficiency with algebraic methods is necessary for higher math. So if your kid can solve the problems with algebra instead of using bars, declare victory and move on.

[Roadrunner]

SM uses bar diagrams to solve algebra type questions before kids learn algebra. So if she can do it with algebra I don't see why she should have to do it by bar diagrams. I love drawing the problems, personally. :glare:

[Beth in SW WA]

Some of the level 4 & 5 cwps require advanced alg. If a kid can do them w/o bars then he is ahead of the curve. If a mom can do them w/ alg and not bars -- go for it. Last night we worked for 20 min trying to figure out how to draw bars for a level 4 cwp. Eventually we used alg and dd could see the answer much better -- which is my goal anyway. The bars are a tool. Just one tool in the tool bag.

 

My older dc never used bars and do extremely well in alg and upper level math. I won't sweat the small stuff this time 'round. :)

[Staceyshoe]

You all are making me feel better! We will still try the bar diagrams, but we won't be beating our head against the table if we aren't able to solve the problems that way.

[MissKNG]

My big girl doesn't always use the "SM" way and I don't push her to. She arrives at the answers correctly in her own way. I decided when starting SM that I'll teach the SM way to her but it's her decision to use it or not. If it starts to complicate SM (we just started 3a), I can easily adjust.

 

As for algebra, I'm not mathy nor did I know the "SM way" when studying algebra in school and did just fine. So I'm not worried about my extremely mathy big girl floundering!

[Alice]

We are all very mathy in our family - and nobody ever used the bar method.

We all prefer to solve it straighforward using algebra; it makes much more sense to us.

 

Some of the level 4 & 5 cwps require advanced alg. If a kid can do them w/o bars then he is ahead of the curve. If a mom can do them w/ alg and not bars -- go for it. Last night we worked for 20 min trying to figure out how to draw bars for a level 4 cwp. Eventually we used alg and dd could see the answer much better -- which is my goal anyway. The bars are a tool. Just one tool in the tool bag.

 

My older dc never used bars and do extremely well in alg and upper level math. I won't sweat the small stuff this time 'round. :)

 

 

So glad to read both of these!