Please guess what grade are these math problems

[nmoira]

This is what confuses me in regard to MEP because while this is the case, it's also the case that in many threads I read people saying its "behind" so year one is really for our kindergarteners. :confused: I'm not sharing that to question you, just expressing my confusion with this board and math (not the first time but I'm still confused :tongue_smilie:).

 

It's not behind, but rather is way ahead if used with the intended age group (i. e. Y1 in K, etc.). In many respects, it is still ahead if Y1 is begun in first grade.

 

The first type of question in the OP is in Y1, but with much smaller numbers and with manipulatives provided. The other problem types are not.

[slackermom]

My son is preparing for a state standardized test and I found these in a newer ed public school math book.I am curious what other think :)

 

So these questions are in a textbook, right? Not on the standardized test? They look like my 6th grade niece's public school homework. So it could be 6th, but I voted 5th at first glance.

 

3) Mark feeds 6 dogs. He has 7 cans, 12 oz each and he shares the food equally among the dogs. How much each dog will get?

 

The use of ounces makes me certain my 2nd grade daughter would not see this in her class. Her textbook hardly has any actual problems though. Certainly not a problem requiring 2 different operations. She could do the problem, but she would not be asked to do so.

[Lovedtodeath]

I voted 4th because the first two are the types of problems that DD is reviewing when she uses Teaching Textbooks 4.

 

#3 requires more steps but I think that she could do it if she didn't panic.

[ErinMarie123]

There's some of both. Most standardized tests include a handful of challenge problems, designed to shake out the kids who will benefit from additional instruction....

 

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

 

Ultimately, though, what Standardized tests show best is how good a child is at taking standardized tests-which doesn't necessarily correlate to how good a child is at anything else academic.

 

Agree wholeheartedly!

[Lovedtodeath]

Ultimately, though, what Standardized tests show best is how good a child is at taking standardized tests-which doesn't necessarily correlate to how good a child is at anything else academic.

Oh yes, like me, who has always aced tests, to be thrown into accelerated classes and do nothing but homework for 5 years.

 

Guess why I homeschool?

[Crimson Wife]

Everything I've read about the US implies that this (bolded) is not true. Kids start K at 5 turning 6, then grade 1 is 6 turning 7, then grade 2 is 7 turning 8, grade 3 is 8 turning 9, etc.

 

Only if the state has an early cutoff. Up until very recently, California had a December 2nd cutoff. Fall birthday kids, unless "redshirted", would be 4 turning 5 entering K.

[woolybear]

are we still waiting?..........:toetap05:

 

:) what's the answer?

[jewellsmommy]

Does anyone else think this is worded strangely?

 

If he *HAS* 12 trains, doesn't that mean that 12 trains constitute the entirety of his collection? Or do I speak another language?

 

Wouldn't it be better worded as, for example:

 

12 of Eric's trains are working properly. The working trains are 4/5 of his collection. How many trains does his collection contain?

 

 

 

I am glad I wasn't the only one having trouble understanding English :lol:. I thought maybe it was just me and was keeping my mouth shut. :D

 

If he has 12 trains, then he has 12 trains! :001_huh:?

[Heather R]

Only if the state has an early cutoff. Up until very recently, California had a December 2nd cutoff. Fall birthday kids, unless "redshirted", would be 4 turning 5 entering K.

 

Yes, but I'm in a province with a MARCH 1st cut off... so you have kids who are barely 4.5 starting K, etc. Big difference when you are comparing curriculum intended for a state with a Sept 1 cut off...

[warneral]

I am glad I wasn't the only one having trouble understanding English :lol:. I thought maybe it was just me and was keeping my mouth shut. :D

 

If he has 12 trains, then he has 12 trains! :001_huh:?

 

Yeah I was reading it improperly. I'm like - how can a 2nd, 3rd, 4th grader figure out how to get 4/5 of 12 trains.......

[jewellsmommy]

Ok. If I ignore question 2 which is confusing to me (I can admit that now, seeing as I am not alone :D) unless it is supposed to be a trick question to see if you are paying attention, then I would say 3/4 grade based.

 

I voted 4th because I think the curricula that introduce these concepts at 3rd are doing so to stretch out the kids (cwp and what not) and not necessarily expecting mastery of it in the base curriculum. As far as American public schools go, I have no idea. I cannot quite pinpoint what grade I was when I started these type of problems.

[boscopup]

None of these problems require algebra, and they're not too hard if you draw pictures:

 

1) Mary and Lily, together bought a $46 gift .Mary spent $6 more than Lily. How much did Lily spent?

 

[---L---]

[---L---][---6---]

 

The total of those bars is 46. Take the 6 away, and you have that 40 is twice as much as what Lily spent, so it's $20. Singapore does this in the 2nd grade books for sure (not the challenging problems, but the regular ones), and maybe even in the first grade books (I haven't seen them). I wouldn't expect this of a typical 1st grader in public school though. They don't teach this way.

 

2) Eric has 12 trains.They are 4/5 of his whole collection. How many trains does he have?

 

[---][---][---][---][---]

 

12 is 4 of those blocks. So one block is 3. There are 15 trains. It is not necessary to be able to multiply fractions. You can do this easily by just drawing it out. The child does need to understand fractions (ie, what is '4/5') and be able to do very basic multiplication and division facts.

 

3) Mark feeds 6 dogs. He has 7 cans, 12 oz each and he shares the food equally among the dogs. How much each dog will get?

 

12 x 7 = 84

84 / 6 = 14

 

I'd expect them to know very basic long division for this one, since 84 is not a multiple of 6 typically memorized when doing facts. So this one I guess I should probably adjust my guess to 4th grade, as that's when long division is typically taught. Singapore would be 3rd grade, but they do long division "early".

[SorrelZG]

For MEP (or any UK curriculum), Year 1 is designed for 5-6 year olds, Year 2 is for 6-7, etc...unless you're in Northern Ireland, then Year 1 is for 4-5, Year 2 is 5-6, etc.

 

Students are required to begin school at age 4-5, which is "Reception".

 

http://www.britishcouncil.org/flasonline-uk-education-system.pdf

 

Yeah, I get that. I grew up in a similar system. I think the point of confusion is between age range and grade/year label - are they calling "year 1" the same thing Americans would call "kindergarten" or are they doing what Americans would call "grade 1" with children that Americans would be typically doing "kindergarten" with?

Edited February 29, 2012 by SCGS

[Amie]

Yeah, I get that. I grew up in a similar system. I think the point of confusion is between age range and grade/year label - are they calling "year 1" the same thing Americans would call "kindergarten" or are they doing what Americans would call "grade 1" with children that Americans would be typically doing "kindergarten" with?

 

My impression has been from others here (Laura Corrine for one?) that UK standards in maths are slightly more advanced overall than here in the US overall. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (not that you needed my permission!;)). So while they (UK) are teaching the ages that would be considered "K" here in the US, the content of some of the curriculum looks more like what you would find in our (US) first grade classrooms...?

[blessedmom3]

ok,sorry for getting late to this.

 

Most of you are right,it's 3rd grade public school math textbook.

Very similar to Singapore math .

 

Thanks for answering :)

[blessedmom3]

Probably the one with 12 trucks was worded wrong by me as I just paraphrased it instead of copying it word by word. 12 trucks are only part of his collection. 4/5 of 12 is 15 .

Edited February 29, 2012 by blessedmom3

[mom31257]

I should have had ds do them before guessing. The fraction problem made me think 3rd. Ds just finished up 3rd grade BJU Math, and he got all 3 problems correct. He did have to draw a picture representation of the fraction problem to do it.

[Sherry in OH]

None of these problems require algebra, and they're not too hard if you draw pictures: ...

 

3) Mark feeds 6 dogs. He has 7 cans, 12 oz each and he shares the food equally among the dogs. How much each dog will get?

 

12 x 7 = 84

84 / 6 = 14

 

I'd expect them to know very basic long division for this one, since 84 is not a multiple of 6 typically memorized when doing facts. So this one I guess I should probably adjust my guess to 4th grade, as that's when long division is typically taught. Singapore would be 3rd grade, but they do long division "early".

 

7 cans for 6 dogs means each dog gets 1 can (12 oz.) plus part of the extra can. 12 oz./6 = 2 oz. 12 + 2 = 14 oz. If you use stacks of 12 pennies/Legos to represent the cans (or draw a rectangle with 12 sections to represent the extra can), you don't even have to know how to divide, just how to share equally.

[SorrelZG]

My impression has been from others here (Laura Corrine for one?) that UK standards in maths are slightly more advanced overall than here in the US overall. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (not that you needed my permission!;)). So while they (UK) are teaching the ages that would be considered "K" here in the US, the content of some of the curriculum looks more like what you would find in our (US) first grade classrooms...?

 

That was my original impression which was confused by all the times I've read that they're behind (now that I think about it, I'm not clear on the "behind" what, exactly, but it sounds really bad when you consider how the US ranks mathematically in the world).

[Jenny in GA]

ok,sorry for getting late to this.

 

Most of you are right,it's 3rd grade public school math textbook.

Very similar to Singapore math .

 

Thanks for answering :)

 

 

Why did you start this thread, exactly?

Were you surprised it was third grade math for some reason, and wanted to see if others were also surprised?

Were you curious if homeschoolers were aware of "public school standards" were?

 

Something else??

[Sherry in OH]

This is what confuses me in regard to MEP because while this is the case, it's also the case that in many threads I read people saying its "behind" so year one is really for our kindergarteners. :confused: I'm not sharing that to question you, just expressing my confusion with this board and math (not the first time but I'm still confused :tongue_smilie:).

 

Obviously from this thread people are all over the place in regard to math so it's not helping.

 

I'm using year 1 with a kindergarten student. K for us starts the school year in which the child turns 6.

[boscopup]

7 cans for 6 dogs means each dog gets 1 can (12 oz.) plus part of the extra can. 12 oz./6 = 2 oz. 12 + 2 = 14 oz. If you use stacks of 12 pennies/Legos to represent the cans (or draw a rectangle with 12 sections to represent the extra can), you don't even have to know how to divide, just how to share equally.

 

Good point. My son probably would have done it that way. :)

[boscopup]

ok,sorry for getting late to this.

 

Most of you are right,it's 3rd grade public school math textbook.

Very similar to Singapore math .

 

Thanks for answering :)

 

So which textbook is it?

:lurk5:

[nmoira]

 

My impression has been from others here (Laura Corrine for one?) that UK standards in maths are slightly more advanced overall than here in the US overall. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (not that you needed my permission!;)). So while they (UK) are teaching the ages that would be considered "K" here in the US, the content of some of the curriculum looks more like what you would find in our (US) first grade classrooms...?

This is my understanding (though I'm not sure the difference is a full grade equivalent in the early years), although MEP is not typical UK math and is advanced even by UK standards, at least through Y6.

[Crimson Wife]

So which textbook is it?

:lurk5:

 

I'm guessing either Math in Focus or enVision since she said it was newish and a bit similar to Singapore.

 

I think Bill (Spycar) said his son is using enVision at his PS and it had some of those sorts of problems in it.

[Shellers]

I voted 5th grade. My DS start out 5th grade in public school and he was doing these types of problems.

[blessedmom3]

So which textbook is it?

:lurk5:

 

Go math

It seems to be used in Florida and Georgia PS.

 

Apparently,Maria Miller likes it , except that it doesn't have enough practice.

You can see the whole book online if you register .

[wapiti]

Go math

It seems to be used in Florida and Georgia PS.

 

Apparently,Maria Miller likes it , except that it doesn't have enough practice.

You can see the whole book online if you register .

 

Are there any links to Maria's opinion? Did it come in one of her emails?

 

FWIW, Amazon has a practice book for this curriculum (I linked the gr 5), which appears to be very new (the text is 2010).

 

Eta, virtual samples here

Edited March 1, 2012 by wapiti

[Roadrunner]

Are there any links to Maria's opinion? Did it come in one of her emails?

 

FWIW, Amazon has a practice book for this curriculum (I linked the gr 5), which appears to be very new (the text is 2010).

 

Eta, virtual samples here

 

Wow Houghton Mifflin. And our district just switched to enVision from Houghton. Puzzles me why. enVision is all right, but I haven't seen anything really thought provoking outside of random "do you understand" sections, which apparently few kids can answer in the classroom.

[momtoamiracle]

really late with this but I had no idea on question 2 and 3. Question one my son was doing in kidnergarten math. We had tons of problems like that in K12 kindy math.

 

 

my son was 4 when he started kindy. The cutoff in my state is Sept 30 and his birthday is right before that. He will be in first grade before he is six. He has a friend that he plays with who is a whole year older and he's in the same grade. He goes to public school tho.

 

one reason I'm glad to homeschool is because he would be one of the youngest in the class. Kidnergarten is mandatory is so there was no way around it.

[go_go_gadget]

Probably the one with 12 trucks was worded wrong by me as I just paraphrased it instead of copying it word by word. 12 trucks are only part of his collection. 4/5 of 12 is 15 .

 

I think you meant to say that 12 is 4/5 of 15. 4/5 of 12 is 48/5, or 9.6

 

To answer the question (not that it matters now): I would expect kids that had been trained in diagramming to be able to answer those questions in second-third grade. In the absence of diagramming, fifth or sixth.

[PentecostalMom]

I guessed 3rd and thankfully was correct. I based that on Abeka's 1st grade math that dd is doing now. Thankfully, I could answer all of the questions correctly! :lol:

[zoo_keeper]

To answer the question (not that it matters now): I would expect kids that had been trained in diagramming to be able to answer those questions in second-third grade. In the absence of diagramming, fifth or sixth.

 

Hey, Laura! BTW, what do you mean about "diagramming"? We both use SM and unless I'm missing something I haven't come across that terminology before.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I voted 4th but was leaning heavily toward 3rd. Depending on how mathy the kid, maybe even late 2nd.... Got to love HSing so much variation.

[CatholicMom]

I guessed 4th based on the last problem because usually division isn't taught until 4th, I thought.

 

Honestly, I would consider the first problem 2nd, second problem 3rd, and fourth problem 4th grade!! lol But I could see it all being reviewed in 4th.

[go_go_gadget]

Hey, Laura! BTW, what do you mean about "diagramming"? We both use SM and unless I'm missing something I haven't come across that terminology before.

 

Hey! :001_smile: I was referring to the bar diagrams like those used in SM.

[MelissaMinNC]

nm

Edited March 1, 2012 by MelissaMinNC
came too late to the party!

[HayleyKC]

 

I feel a bit like I've entered the twilight zone reading this thread. Grade 1?? I thought first graders were supposed to be learning basic stuff like adding and subtracting, not thinly veiled algebra.

 

:iagree:

 

I was thinking maybe many who commented didn't read the question closely and misinterpreted it.

 

Anyway, I would guess at least 5th grade. I will have to take the poll. Do we find out after we respond? Guess I will find out.

[Carpe]

:iagree:

 

I was thinking maybe many who commented didn't read the question closely and misinterpreted it.

 

Anyway, I would guess at least 5th grade. I will have to take the poll. Do we find out after we respond? Guess I will find out.

 

The OP already posted that it was 3rd grade.

 

Which makes sense I think. The second question is just an equivalent fractions question, not anything complex. The third question is straight division although I don't know if the original specified the answer needed to be in ounces and I'm assuming not. If it is supposed to be in ounces then it gets more difficult, but only to the point of having two steps. And the first question just seems easy. I can't justify why I feel that way, but it just seems like it's a much lower level than #3.